Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Carrera tensioners

Posted by: goose2 Sep 16 2005, 10:23 AM

I'm slowly getting my 3 liter ready for install......who's got the best price on the tensioner upgrade?

Posted by: brp914 Sep 16 2005, 10:37 AM

vertex.com $400

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 16 2005, 10:38 AM

Ask this question over at the 911 bird board.
IIRC there are a couple different suppliers of these, one is gud & one is not so good....but I don't remember the details.
In this case, cheep is not necessarly better.

Posted by: sixnotfour Sep 16 2005, 10:39 AM

Update the arms also, They are wider and have bushings in them. More$$

Posted by: brp914 Sep 16 2005, 10:58 AM

vertex complete and good price. '80 and on already has updated arms.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Sep 16 2005, 11:20 AM

Forget throwing your money away on the Carrera tensioners. Just update the arms and idler parts, add tensioner guards, and rebuild your late version conventional tensioners. Cost you about 50 bucks above and beyond the updated stuff, which you should do anyway. Beats spending several hundred bucks for something that's NOT an "upgrade".
The Cap'n

Posted by: Sammy Sep 16 2005, 01:15 PM

I couldn't agree more with the crust-meister.
tensioner guards (to keep them from collapsing in case of a failure) and good arms and you are set.
The pelican 911 board is full of people who upgraded to the carrera tensioners, only to have them fail soon after.
IMO it isn't an upgrade at all and will not put the carrera tensioners in my engine, no matter what B.A. says

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 16 2005, 04:23 PM

QUOTE (Sammy @ Sep 16 2005, 11:15 AM)
I couldn't agree more with the crust-meister.
tensioner guards (to keep them from collapsing in case of a failure) and good arms and you are set.
The pelican 911 board is full of people who upgraded to the carrera tensioners, only to have them fail soon after.
IMO it isn't an upgrade at all and will not put the carrera tensioners in my engine, no matter what B.A. says

That's what's fun about these motors. We agree on the arm
but disagree about everything else.

Sammy: You wanna buy my supply of old style tens.....Crusty?
Guaranteed to the curb.

Posted by: goose2 Sep 17 2005, 02:43 PM

I've read all the Pelican posts on the chain tensioner debate and I'm well aware of the differences of opinion. I guess I had sort of decided to do it but I'm eager to be persuaded otherwise....it sure would save some dough. More opinions encouraged Captn? Jeff? JP? Sammy?

Posted by: TimT Sep 17 2005, 03:07 PM

do the tensioner upgrade, and while you in there install new chains, new ramps, new arms, new sprockets.

and modify the carrera tensioners such that they have there own fail safes (its really quite easy)

and POOF, you have the latest bullet proof system

If your going through the expense of rebuilding a 911 engine.. you should do it right once.. spend the coin get the new parts, assemble carefully, and have years of enjoyment

or enjoy till you get the urge to build in some more power

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 17 2005, 03:08 PM

Well, we all agree that the sprocket arm needs to be up-dated.
Many believe that that alone caused the tensioners to fail.
Also look carefully at the shaft on which it rides. They wear unevenly causing a step in the shaft which can bind movement. My 2.7 shafts were severly stepped which meant replacement with aluminum chain boxes......the mag jobbies are getting old and most are shot, me thinks...the pressed in shafts are not as well anchored in the mag boxes. I have a couple aluminum jobbies( for cheep) if you have the need.

As to the tens, you're on your own. You've read the stuff. The non oil fed work and did so for a long time. New ones are fairly cheep by comparison to the oil fed. At a minimum, get new ones.

I would not under any circumstances use them fucked up locks/guards....what ever.

edit: I'm talking about the external guards, not those Tim is talking about.

Posted by: goose2 Sep 17 2005, 03:20 PM

QUOTE
If your going through the expense of rebuilding a 911 engine

Good advice for sure, but I'm not rebuilding it. It was reputedly rebuilt 25k ago, but the hydraulics were not installed. When I open it up, I'll check to see what exactly has been done regarding ramps, chains, sprockets, etc. I'm sure I'll have more questions then, but for now, the issue is hydraulic Carrera type or no. JP....do you mean the "safety collar" things? I've heard a lot of differing opinions on these too.

Posted by: sixnotfour Sep 17 2005, 03:22 PM

You got a new set of hydraulics on the 2.4 swap em ,

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Sep 17 2005, 03:33 PM

QUOTE (TimT @ Sep 17 2005, 01:07 PM)
do the tensioner upgrade, and while you in there install new chains, new ramps, new arms, new sprockets.

and modify the carrera tensioners such that they have there own fail safes (its really quite easy)

and POOF, you have the latest bullet proof system

If your going through the expense of rebuilding a 911 engine.. you should do it right once.. spend the coin get the new parts, assemble carefully, and have years of enjoyment

or enjoy till you get the urge to build in some more power

Explain in a couple of paragraphs words how the oil fed tensioners are an "upgrade". Please present a convincing argument to support your contentions ......................... Lightening the car by lightening the driver's wallet is NOT a valid point. The Cap'n

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Sep 17 2005, 03:35 PM

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Sep 17 2005, 01:08 PM)

I would not under any circumstances use them fucked up locks/guards....what ever.

edit: I'm talking about the external guards, not those Tim is talking about.

What's wrong with the external guards? I used to use 912 valve spring retainers until the guards came on the market. Never seen one fail in an original installation. The Cap'n

Posted by: goose2 Sep 17 2005, 03:41 PM

QUOTE
Lightening the car by lightening the driver's wallet is NOT a valid point. The Cap'n

are you suggesting that they are so expensive that they weigh less than the cash to buy them ....looks like the worm can has been opened

Posted by: sixnotfour Sep 17 2005, 03:41 PM

QUOTE
I used to use 912 valve spring retainers until the guards came on the market

I have seen this a few times ,
As for the split gaurds there has been quite afew different ones made of varing Quality,
some would brealk an ear off when you're tightening them up, all of the ones I have gotten in the last few years from WorldPac seem to be fine.

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 17 2005, 05:17 PM

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Sep 17 2005, 01:35 PM)

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Sep 17 2005, 01:08 PM)

I would not under any circumstances use them fucked up locks/guards....what ever.

edit: I'm talking about the external guards, not those Tim is talking about.

What's wrong with the external guards? I used to use 912 valve spring retainers until the guards came on the market. Never seen one fail in an original installation. The Cap'n

Nor have I....
Mr. Anderson says he has or at least heard of it, but more importantly, what he says about them makes sense to me.

I've never seen either tensioner break. I've heard of a bad batch of the oil feds on the market a couple years ago.

Most of the hard parts in my engine are 27 years old. I don't think Porsche expected these things to last this long. Nothing lasts forever, eh? I have no idea how old my oil feds are. I've had then on 2 motors (they came with my old 2.4) for 7 years.....I'll keep em'. If they puke, I'll replace em'.

I wouldn't expect to convince you of the value of the oil feds. I use em', you don't.... good luck to both of us.

Posted by: Sammy Sep 17 2005, 06:52 PM

for me it's safety collars.
there are way more posts on Pelican 911 board about new carrera tensioners failing than there are about 25 year old stock tensioners failing. I go by what i see and not what BA says, unless he wants to pay for them and guaranty them. Even then I would have second thoughts.

Posted by: TimT Sep 17 2005, 07:18 PM

QUOTE
Explain in a couple of paragraphs words how the oil fed tensioners are an "upgrade". Please present a convincing argument to support your contentions

hmmmmm kinda easy actually..

but since you apparently know better than Porsche, maybe you should explain why you should not improve the 911 engine by giving it all the updates and latest hardware?

Although this is an apples to oranges comparison, I just did a refresh on a 993 engine.. WOW it has pressure fed tensioners.. I wonder why Porsche would incur the expense of pressure fed tensioners if it wasnt beneficial?

And I have a GT3RS engine that I and my partner have been building on the side.. guess what... pressure fed tensioners..

I thinks its a great business model... not recommending what the factory thinks are beneficial improvements...

anyhoo you can improve the 911 valve train, it will cost you a few bucks.. new sprockets, chain, ramps, arms, a few bushings here and there

and find a guy that knows how to mod a pressure fed tensioner to be "failsafe"

go from there

And looking at costs etc.. $500-800 to give your 911 engine the most up to date valve train isnt really hard to swallow