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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Shifting to second grinds a little

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 02:03 PM

I'm thinking I might need to replace my second gear syncro because once my tranny warms up, if I shift to fast (normal speed) I grind into second.

Since I'm going to fix my leaks I thought I'd just replace the syncro if that's what it might be.

Any opions?

Posted by: Bleyseng Sep 19 2005, 02:26 PM

Adjust the clutch first to see if that helps.
You have to pull the tranny to replace that 2nd gear sychro right.

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 02:33 PM

I've done some adjustment but I'll try some more.

I can do this without pulling the tranny according to the various articles.

Posted by: jkeyzer Sep 19 2005, 03:53 PM

Since the tranny has leaks, does it still have fluid? When was it last changed?

Clutch adjustment is a good idea. If you are at a stop and you push in the clutch, wait a few seconds, and then try to shift in reverse, does it grind?

Posted by: trekkor Sep 19 2005, 04:06 PM

Mine does the same crunching.

Speed shifting from third into second is even worse.

KT

Posted by: ! Sep 19 2005, 04:07 PM

Deal with the fluid first, then complain.....

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 04:56 PM

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Sep 19 2005, 01:53 PM)
Since the tranny has leaks, does it still have fluid? When was it last changed?

Clutch adjustment is a good idea. If you are at a stop and you push in the clutch, wait a few seconds, and then try to shift in reverse, does it grind?

Nope works fine going into reverse.

The fluid was changed last year, the leak isn't that bad but I'm going to pop the cover off this weekend so I'll find out. I'll check the level first to see if it is low.

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 04:59 PM

QUOTE ("Z" @ Sep 19 2005, 02:07 PM)
Deal with the fluid first, then complain.....

OK.

Posted by: Brando Sep 19 2005, 05:18 PM

I have a better idea: Ease it into 2nd/3rd when shifting and stop trying to drive it like a racecar!

Leaks first... then synchros later

Posted by: Lawrence Sep 19 2005, 06:08 PM

I agree with checking adjustment and fluid levels first.

If you do decide to replace the synchro, I'd pull the transmission first. Including the jacking & muffler removal, the tranny can be pulled in less than two hours.

Since you'd have to jack the car up and remove the muffler, anyways, I'd just remove the gearbox. I'd much rather work on the gearbox on a workbench, rather than on my back under the car.

Good luck,
Rusty

Posted by: Midtowner Sep 19 2005, 06:15 PM

Hmm, sounds like I need to adjust my clutch!

Posted by: d7n7master Sep 19 2005, 06:31 PM

If I may suggest; If you haven't replaced ALL of the shift bushings or know that the po has replaced them recently... - there's nothing that U can adjust will be consistant. 2 much "slop"
Start with new bushings installed using new set screws.
Then adjust your linkage. I like to start adjusting the linkage with the tranny in 2nd.
Try it.
Worked 4 me;
Good Luck

Posted by: tracks914 Sep 19 2005, 07:14 PM

I just did mine this year.
Take off the exhaust, leave the engine blocked up and just pull the tranny. It's easy and in less than 2 hours you have the whole tranny on the bench. The tranny was light enough that I just "bench pressed" it back into place when I reinstalled it.
Make sure its a large enough and clean bench. Take apart the tranny piece by piece (Haynes manual helps a bit) and change all you seals and gaskets at the same time. Don't try fixing leaks now then take it apart later for the syncros.
Note - depending on how many mile/year you drive, you may get away with just flipping over the old syncro instead of buying new ones. I bought 2 new ones but flipped 3rd one over as the factory manual suggests.
Email me if you want more details. It was a bit un-nerving at first taking it all apart but soon you realize it can only go back together one way.
Ps if you're going to do it yourself you will need a good set of snap ring pliers.

Posted by: bondo Sep 19 2005, 07:17 PM

QUOTE (tracks914 @ Sep 19 2005, 06:14 PM)

Ps if you're going to do it yourself you will need a good set of snap ring pliers.

These work VERY well for this job: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45326

I broke several "normal sized" ones before getting these, and it's like night and day.

Posted by: bondo Sep 19 2005, 07:22 PM

Oh, and I agree about pulling the trans vs. pulling the stack in the car, if you have the means. It's hard enough getting the gear stack in and out already, why make it harder when you don't have to? Beware DWD though.. (clutch, CVs, etc.)

If you need trans parts, I have an ad in the classifieds! (end shameless plug)

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 07:26 PM

QUOTE (Brando @ Sep 19 2005, 03:18 PM)
I have a better idea: Ease it into 2nd/3rd when shifting and stop trying to drive it like a racecar!

Leaks first... then synchros later

I'm not driving like a race car

But, that does work. Nice and slow and it's fine. The other gears work with normal shifting. Just push in the clutch and change gears nothing fany but second get upset man.

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 07:44 PM

QUOTE (Lawrence @ Sep 19 2005, 04:08 PM)
I agree with checking adjustment and fluid levels first.

If you do decide to replace the synchro, I'd pull the transmission first. Including the jacking & muffler removal, the tranny can be pulled in less than two hours.

Since you'd have to jack the car up and remove the muffler, anyways, I'd just remove the gearbox. I'd much rather work on the gearbox on a workbench, rather than on my back under the car.

Good luck,
Rusty

I'll check the fluids, but since I hardly put any miles on the car and the leaks are just seeping I don't think it would be low. But, I'll double check. I'll also check the adjustment but I have spend quite a bit of time on that and still get the darn grind.

Currently, my car is jacked up and has the muffler removed because I'm replacing the exhaust valve cover gaskets so I got to thinking this might be a good time to get into my transmission and screw that up a bit.

Posted by: ! Sep 19 2005, 07:46 PM

It's not just the level...it's the age and quality of the stuff....Swepco is da bomb....

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (d7n7master @ Sep 19 2005, 04:31 PM)
If I may suggest; If you haven't replaced ALL of the shift bushings or know that the po has replaced them recently... - there's nothing that U can adjust will be consistant. 2 much "slop"
Start with new bushings installed using new set screws.
Then adjust your linkage. I like to start adjusting the linkage with the tranny in 2nd.
Try it.
Worked 4 me;
Good Luck

I've got all new parts about 4 years ago when I converted the transmission to side shift from tail shift actually I just helped on that.

Won't hurt to go that route though.

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 07:52 PM

QUOTE ("Z" @ Sep 19 2005, 05:46 PM)
It's not just the level...it's the age and quality of the stuff....Swepco is da bomb....

Yeare old Swepco is what is in there now.

Posted by: ! Sep 19 2005, 07:53 PM

Well...I'm done.....

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 07:55 PM

QUOTE (tracks914 @ Sep 19 2005, 05:14 PM)
I just did mine this year.
Take off the exhaust, leave the engine blocked up and just pull the tranny. It's easy and in less than 2 hours you have the whole tranny on the bench. The tranny was light enough that I just "bench pressed" it back into place when I reinstalled it.
Make sure its a large enough and clean bench. Take apart the tranny piece by piece (Haynes manual helps a bit) and change all you seals and gaskets at the same time. Don't try fixing leaks now then take it apart later for the syncros.
Note - depending on how many mile/year you drive, you may get away with just flipping over the old syncro instead of buying new ones. I bought 2 new ones but flipped 3rd one over as the factory manual suggests.
Email me if you want more details. It was a bit un-nerving at first taking it all apart but soon you realize it can only go back together one way.
Ps if you're going to do it yourself you will need a good set of snap ring pliers.

Ok Doug. I'll call on you for details .

I agree I'm going in for leaks so at least I can freshen up the 1st and 2nd synchros and learn something.

Two hours to yank is not bad. I already have the muffer off anyway.

Posted by: tracks914 Sep 19 2005, 08:15 PM

Car on the jacks,muffler off already.... CV's, starter, 3 other engine/tranny bolts and the rear mounting bolts......less than an hour you will have it on the bench.

Posted by: olav Sep 19 2005, 08:22 PM

QUOTE (bondo @ Sep 19 2005, 05:17 PM)

QUOTE (tracks914 @ Sep 19 2005, 06:14 PM)

Ps if you're going to do it yourself you will need a good set of snap ring pliers.

These work VERY well for this job: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45326

I broke several "normal sized" ones before getting these, and it's like night and day.

Thanks for the suggestion. I bought them pliers.

Does anyone have a gear pulling tool I can borrow?

Thanks!

So, since I have my car up and muffler off and annoying seeping leaks that need to be fixed I thought since I'm in there I might as well freshen up the 1st and 2nd synchros.

I have spend a good many hours adjusting the shift linkage etc but couldn't dial out the grind.

Gear oil is pretty new and is Swepco. I'll change that too so it's new.

I'm getting the gasket set to replace the older seals too.

I'll be using Jame's article and Bondo's classic thread as guides.

I'll be starting next weekend.

Any other tools I neeed?

Posted by: Bleyseng Sep 19 2005, 08:25 PM

that deep 32mm socket to pull off the 1st gear assembly

Posted by: tracks914 Sep 19 2005, 08:54 PM

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Sep 19 2005, 06:25 PM)
that deep 32mm socket to pull off the 1st gear assembly

And an electric impact wrench to get it off!

Posted by: bondo Sep 19 2005, 09:26 PM

Big ass crescent wrench, brass hammer, brass monkey, intergalactic, sabotage!

Posted by: olav Sep 20 2005, 09:15 AM

QUOTE (bondo @ Sep 19 2005, 07:26 PM)
Big ass crescent wrench, brass hammer, brass monkey, intergalactic, sabotage!

Check, check, got a monkey puller, on order, ditto...

Posted by: olav Oct 10 2005, 08:41 AM

Ok, just to follow up.

I've finished with the tranny fixes.

Last Friday I pulled the tranny.

Saturday I put in fresh 1st and 2nd gear synchros as they were getting tired. The second gear synchro was causing the grinding as it has no tension left in it and I replaced the 1st gear synchro since it gets used the most and only a bit of it gets hit so out it came for good measure. It was showing wear too.

All the gears and dogs teeth look fine so I fixed the issue before any expensive damage was done.

Also, there were NO gaskets on the intermediate plate, no shims either, just white goop

in place of where gaskets should be.

That was the reason I had a tranny oil weeping problem.

Put in gaskets from the kit and the middle sized shim on the case side. That should to the trick.

Also replace speedo angle drive because it was leaking too, POS! Also, the O-ring.

Replaced input shaft seal too as a precaution, the old one was kind a hard and inflexible.

Put all together and dumped in some fresh tranny fluid, looks a lot nicer than the olden stuff, and put it back in the car Saturday night.

Didn't take to long and my car is back up and running with no leaks in the tranny dept and shifts awesomely now.

I got to regrease everything associated with tranny pulling like the shift linkage and throttle pully. Also, repacked my CV's with fresh grease and slapped on some new gaskets.

Everything looks pretty now down there.

Thanks for all the tips and ideas!!

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 10 2005, 08:46 AM

ummm... does it whine now? there is a good chance your pinion depth is off (guessing at shims/gaskets)

Posted by: olav Oct 10 2005, 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Oct 10 2005, 06:46 AM)
ummm... does it whine now? there is a good chance your pinion depth is off (guessing at shims/gaskets)

Nope, no whining at all. No leaks and quiet as a mouse.