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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Help...my 914 is bucking and stalling

Posted by: adammtb Sep 24 2005, 07:52 PM

Hello there,

I just bought a 72 914 w/ a 1.8 according to the seller. I drove it about 5 hours home no problem. However, when I drive it now, I can run for about 30 minutes then it starts to lose power and buck. The car stalls if I take my foot off the gas. I have to pull over, shut it down for a few minutes and then i can drive off. It then does this every 5-15 minutes. I also think I added to much oil, how are you supposed to check the level, I heard the engine needs to be running? Now there is oil all throughout the engine bay. Did I blow oil out throuhg the air filters, and if so can I take them off to drive into town, about 12 miles. Please help I would love to fix this tomorrow.

Thanks,
Scooter

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 24 2005, 07:56 PM

the 72 has a oil bath filter....supposed to be like that....

there shoudl be a dipstick for checking the oil level...the engine should be warm.....

bucking/stalling....if you know which FI system you have please tell us, it helps to narrow things down

if D-jet check the CHT, located by the #3 cylinder.

now oil all over the engine bay is something that i dont have an answer for? hoses disconnected somewhere?

Welcome!

Posted by: goose2 Sep 24 2005, 09:19 PM

Britt is right, there's a dipstick...check with motor not running (only sixes get checked running). The oil mess sounds like it's overfilled...if not you may have a leak or a more serious problem. The intermittant bucking and stalling may be vapor lock (do a search to learn more about it) or it may be that the plugs are fouling because it's overfilled. There are a couple things with the fuel enjection that could cause it too, but I'd start with the oil check and then see what the plugs look like. Welcome to our world

Posted by: redshift Sep 24 2005, 09:37 PM

Carbs? You said air filters...

M

Posted by: adammtb Sep 24 2005, 09:57 PM

Definatley carbs, dual carbs...when I said air filters I mean the things that sit on top of the carbs...what are those called? Thanks for all the advice and I will let y'all know how it turns out tomorrow.

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 24 2005, 10:33 PM

you're new here....you'll soon learn that I actually know nothing...

so ignore what i said...the FI models came with a oil bath filter, but i'm more partial to the laterr tstyle.

Posted by: redshift Sep 24 2005, 10:50 PM

Yes then, the oil level can have a bad outcome, up the pukers..

You should use about 3.75 quarts, and that is over slightly. Do you have ports in your heads? There is a breather setup, that you may lack.

M

Posted by: V6914 Sep 25 2005, 02:16 AM

New guys, arn't allowed to ask questions, unless they post pictures Unwritten and Unheard of Rule

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 25 2005, 10:10 AM

yep. miles is right. if your heads have this port in the heads and nothing is attached, you'll have a fine mist of oil all over your engine compartment. ask me how i know.

Posted by: ! Sep 25 2005, 01:02 PM

Sounds like a fuel problem. Could be a filter or the fuel pump is going bad.

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 25 2005, 02:58 PM

check oil when cold or after it has been sitting for a few minutes if warm. locate and check fuel filter, just as easy to match it and just replace it if age is unknown. the oil fill tower, conical shaped item on the front/top of the engine, should have a hose on it. where does the other end of the hose attach?

Posted by: adammtb Sep 25 2005, 07:40 PM

Ok so I found out more info...dual weber carbs, not sure which ones. It seems that the fuel pump is right next to the gas tank, I'm assuming that this is not stock. Definatley a 1.8. Oil problem solved...just had to much. So, how hot does it need to be for the fuel to atomize. If the engine is not cooling properly could the carbs get hot enough to atomize the fuel. Also, could a fuel line get hot enought to do the same. I had the same problem today...ran it for about an hour until it started, and then cooled off for periods of 1-5 minutes bought me about that same amount of time running until it started dying again. Here are some photos as well.

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Posted by: adammtb Sep 25 2005, 07:42 PM

Here is a photo of the engine...

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Posted by: ! Sep 25 2005, 07:45 PM

Those are single barrel carbs.....typically you would use 40 or 44 Weber two barrel carbs.

What you have is a single on a short manifold....I have heard that short manifolds will heat up, transfer engine heat and cause problems in the carb bowl by boiling the gas......might want to look into "phenolithic"....might not be spelled right ....spacers that fit under the manifolds....

Posted by: redshift Sep 25 2005, 07:58 PM

phenolic

M

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 25 2005, 08:03 PM

weber ICT's I think

phenolic or heat isolating gaskets...

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 26 2005, 07:46 AM

that open fitting on the oil fill tower just pumps crap all over the engine compartment. the cheap way to solve that issue is to drill a hole in one of the air filter tops, put in a fitting that fits the proper sized vaccum line, and let the carb draw off the fumes. where does the fuel pump sit in relation to the outlet on the bottom of the fuel tank? higher, lower, about the same. show a picture of the location and type of pump.

k

Posted by: adammtb Sep 26 2005, 08:16 AM

Here is the front trunk compartment, note the fuel pump next to the gas tank (upper left of the photo) The pump is level with the top of the tank. It did not feel overly hot to the touch, perhaps justa bit warm. Not sure what type it is, but looks more like a 74,75 pump than a 72 pump?

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Posted by: OMB_Godfather Sep 26 2005, 11:42 PM

Also about the bucking and stalling you might try checking the dwell/point gap in the distributor. i had a problem with that where the points were almost always closed but the damn thing still ran and bucked.

Posted by: Travis Neff Sep 27 2005, 01:43 AM

Fuel or ignition. Pop the tops off the carbs and I betcha you'll find all sorts of rust chunks in there.

Every good diagnosis is to make sure every part that you can control is up to snuff before you start easter egging out parts. Adjust the valves, check dwell, timing - then go after the carbs/fuel system. It is almost always the basics which gets you.

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 27 2005, 07:52 AM

QUOTE (OMB_Godfather @ Sep 26 2005, 11:42 PM)
Also about the bucking and stalling you might try checking the dwell/point gap in the distributor. i had a problem with that where the points were almost always closed but the damn thing still ran and bucked.

same here...everything worked as it should, except for this small stalling right at 1000RPM...drove me nuts....

anyway, point block wore down because I forgot to lube the cam before taking it to the p-man to get worked on, and he forgot to check....

b

if there's any porblem first thing to do is just look at the points....

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 27 2005, 08:05 AM

my take on the fuel pump placement, and i may be incorrect. that location, way up high, doesn't look right. plus, it's hard to tell if it's a facet or a rotary. which ever, i think you should find a new location. consider the lower firewall, as in the picture, filter up stream of the pump.

k

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Posted by: bd1308 Sep 27 2005, 08:24 AM

oh and about that pump.....

the early FI pumps were gravity fed...IE they push instead of pull......

so if you have a early pump WAAAAY up there, you got a problem.

I would relocate it somewhere near stock position.....

b

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 27 2005, 08:29 AM

you have no need for a f.i. pump, with all that high pressure, even with a fuel pressure regulator, in a carbed car.

k

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 27 2005, 08:34 AM

it just looked like he had a FI pump up there....

aren't facets gravity fed as well?

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 27 2005, 08:36 AM

from the picture, i can't tell exactly what style is in there britt. just a heads up.

k

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 27 2005, 08:45 AM

hey man, could we get closer fuel pump pictures?

your right rhodyguy, if its a carbed car, a FI pump has no business in there....i have a feeling that's part of the problem.

b

Posted by: tdgray Sep 27 2005, 08:50 AM

I think you guys are hunting Elephants with a pop gun.

First things first. Check the coil. Sounds exactly like an overheating coil.

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Sep 27 2005, 10:03 AM

I'm not familiar with the different gas tank caps. Maybe the tank is not vented properly. Try loosening the cap. Possibly you are drawing a vacuum in the tank starving the fuel pump.

Mark

Posted by: adammtb Sep 27 2005, 12:47 PM

Hey guys....sorry no pics for a few days....the car is "hiding." My father is coming soon and seeing as the car is a gift for him it would not be good to spoil the suprise.

The pump looks a lot like the pump in the photo that rhodyguy posted...it is long and cylindrical and the fuel enters one end and then out the other. If anyone knows the Auto Atlanta catolog it looks the the pump in the 75/76 photo versus the pump in the 70-74 photo.

Keep the thoughts coming...it's awesome!

Posted by: Toast Sep 27 2005, 01:04 PM

well, now doesn't this situation sound familar!

Clean or change the fuel filter in the rear at least.

Also, take it for a drive, and when it starts bucking, try moving the key around in a square motion. If it fires back up and keeps running, then your ignition needs changed. The plastic inside the ignition could be cracked or broke and cause your car to "shut off".

Oh, and dont go driving through a steep canyon while you are having this problem.

Posted by: adammtb Sep 27 2005, 02:43 PM

You know...the other day, when it started up again (well it happens everytime i drive) I pumped the gas vigourously and that seemed to buy me another 30 seconds or minute or so of really rough running and not dying...does this beta help the diagnosis?

Posted by: Toast Sep 27 2005, 04:27 PM

QUOTE (adammtb @ Sep 27 2005, 01:43 PM)
You know...the other day, when it started up again (well it happens everytime i drive) I pumped the gas vigourously and that seemed to buy me another 30 seconds or minute or so of really rough running and not dying...does this beta help the diagnosis?

Yes, I am having that same problem now!
When I find out what it is, I'll let ya know.

But seriously, try that ignition thing and clean the fuel filter.

Posted by: adammtb Oct 1 2005, 10:58 AM

What do y'all think of Auto Atlanta...gonna take her down soon for a check-up....here's another pic

Posted by: adammtb Oct 1 2005, 10:59 AM

sorry here's that pic.....

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Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 1 2005, 11:38 AM

ok. if there is a second metal canister (like the one in my picture) it would be the fp regulator. general info. this type of pump is a good "pusher", and a bad "puller". mounted high as in your picture, the pump is forced to "pull" the fuel uphill. note in my picture the pump actually rests below where the fuel outlet is located. gravity does the initial work, supplying the fuel to the pump, and the pump "pushes" it a short distance uphill. filter upstream of the pump (before), and i use a stock hp style. if you should relocate the pump, check out andy's powering the pump thread in the classic thread section. if you want to try a new coil, a bosch blue can be had for roughly $30. perhaps worth a try. btw, when you buy a cb pump, the instructions stongly advise against mounting the pump in a trunk or enclosed space. prob to avoid accumulation of vapors and the accompaning explosion.

k

Posted by: mikelsr Oct 1 2005, 12:48 PM

QUOTE (Bartlett 914 @ Sep 27 2005, 08:03 AM)
Maybe the tank is not vented properly. Try loosening the cap. Possibly you are drawing a vacuum in the tank starving the fuel pump.

I had this problem on my teener and found that the PO had connected ALL of the fuel system vents together. It would run for a while and then buck and die. If I took the gas cap off (just loosening it didn't help) I would hear it break vacumn.

Mike