hi guys
i want to upgread my 1973 1.8 engine
i want 2 stay with 4 cyl and i want around 150-180 hp
were can i do it?
how?
kits?
do you know prices range?
thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/home.php?cat=308 and check your options.
The short answer is...
First I'd say reasearch this for at least one month!
We'd all like to have 150-180 but it is expensive.
The cheapest way to get this kind of HP is to do a conversion.
Otherwise do a search here on Jake Raby - resident TYPE4 builder/guru.
Jim
i watched jake's site probebly he is very relyable but very very expensive...
p.s
thats my honey
QUOTE (Headrage @ Oct 4 2005, 11:29 AM) |
Go http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/home.php?cat=308 and check your options. |
QUOTE (bender @ Oct 4 2005, 11:59 AM) |
i watched jake's site probebly he is very relyable but very very expensive... |
QUOTE (bender @ Oct 4 2005, 10:59 AM) |
i watched jake's site probebly he is very relyable but very very expensive... p.s thats my honey |
so my man is the raby?
thanks
Think I'm expensive???
Make a few dozen mistakes, blow some engines apart or buy junk parts and you'll see what expensive is all about.
Thats exactly how I learned and thats why I can help you when no one else can/will.....
My kit engines are NOT expensive.. 4500 bucks for all the internals to create a 150 HP engine is NOT expensive, especially when they are precision balanced and based on a true engine design- not a bunch of parts thrown in a box by some parts pusher that does not have grease under his nails..
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Oct 4 2005, 12:49 PM) |
Think I'm expensive??? Make a few dozen mistakes, blow some engines apart or buy junk parts and you'll see what expensive is all about. Thats exactly how I learned and thats why I can help you when no one else can/will..... My kit engines are NOT expensive.. 4500 bucks for all the internals to create a 150 HP engine is NOT expensive, especially when they are precision balanced and based on a true engine design- not a bunch of parts thrown in a box by some parts pusher that does not have grease under his nails.. |
try pricing the parts seperately that jake uses in his kits... you can't buy the seperate pieces and make the same combo for the same price... Jake's kits are a great deal... and you get Jake's experience putting the combos together... which you can't put a tag on!
QUOTE (bender @ Oct 4 2005, 02:09 PM) |
the 2016 turbo kit its a 4 cyl kit? whats the hp for it? thanks |
QUOTE (Mueller @ Oct 4 2005, 03:11 PM) | ||
just so you know, that is just for the engine "kit" that is suited for a turbo....price does not include the turbo or the exhaust or the intake plumbing for it........ one thing you are going to learn here is that these are 30 year old aircooled cars...not modern Hondas so forget everything you read in Sport Compact Car 'cause it's a different world here unless you install a different modern engine....... there is hope for us that want to keep the aircooled /4 motors, it just won't be easy or cheap |
QUOTE (bender @ Oct 4 2005, 04:16 PM) |
if thats the case probebly ill stay with atmosperic motors the 170 hp kit around 4.5K$ at raby's sounds great for my needs, but i need to see what i can do... thanks |
QUOTE (Mueller @ Oct 4 2005, 03:19 PM) | ||
and then you need to add the cost of dual carbs or aftermarket fuel injection..the stock FI will not support 170hp as is. ... |
QUOTE (bender @ Oct 4 2005, 04:39 PM) | ||||
whats better? the carbs or injection? what the approximet costs? thanks a lot |
Yep- If you are a first timer, don't even think of the Turbo kit...
I'd do the 2270- its super easy to build and makes more than enough power.
You must crawl before you walk- getting inm over your head is VERY easy (but I won't let you do it)
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Oct 4 2005, 03:49 PM) |
Yep- If you are a first timer, don't even think of the Turbo kit... I'd do the 2270- its super easy to build and makes more than enough power. You must crawl before you walk- getting inm over your head is VERY easy (but I won't let you do it) |
QUOTE (bender @ Oct 4 2005, 05:12 PM) | ||
thats why i'm asking the experts.... im gonna think only about the atmosperic kits!! i heared that the fi does problems , is it right? thanks a lot |
QUOTE (bender @ Oct 4 2005, 05:12 PM) |
i heared that the fi does problems , is it right? thanks a lot |
FI vs carbs, once the FI is set up right, it will tend to stay set up right, you sort of have to dick around with carbs, which is okay, but you don't want to spend more time tuning than driving.
Another thing you can do is do an engine swap....
Such as a subaru engine. 180hp N/A is a great thing...
Then theres turbo's...
You wont get 180hp for 4500 with a type 4...
At least with any kind of reliability..
140hp on the other hand.. possibly...
Good luck, and dont limit your options... ("this is the way to go, this is your only choice" ect)
I am not saying anything Bad about Jakes engines.. If you wanted to stay T4, I also suggest him....
If the Subaru was aircooled I'd say go for it...
Friggin radiators suck, if you want acar with a radiator sell the 914 to someone who appreciates the aircooled heritage and buy a freakin WRX..
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Oct 4 2005, 09:01 PM) |
If the Subaru was aircooled I'd say go for it... Friggin radiators suck, if you want acar with a radiator sell the 914 to someone who appreciates the aircooled heritage and buy a freakin WRX.. |
Thanks.. Some days I'm a better asshole than others...
Talking about engines with radiators brings out the best in me for sure....
Heritage or not you can't beat Physics. Water is a better cooling medium than air.
So physics is why you drive a rice burner... Figured as much.
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Oct 5 2005, 08:21 AM) |
So physics is why you drive a rice burner... Figured as much. |
But those aren't VWs... they may have the logo but they are made from recycled beer cans and 2 Liter coke bottles like all the other new pieces of shit on the market....
real VWs don't have radiators and are not made of plastic..
A buddy of mine was coming through town the other day and on a used car lot right in front of the only main traffic light we have in town... He is driving an old ratted out 70 beetle that he uses as a beater car to drive through Atlanta traffic......
So this car salesman on the used car lot sees him stopped in traffic at the light and yells hey and points at a brand new beetle and says "Hey looks like its time to trade that one in for a new model"...
My buddy Dave says, what you mean that plastic piece of shit over there??? Nah, it has a radiator, I'll drive a real one- no thanks..
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Oct 5 2005, 09:21 AM) |
So physics is why you drive a rice burner... Figured as much. |
Well it wasn't a personal attack.. Those involve fists and ball bats in my book...
As for justification as to WHY I don't like radiators and water cooled cars- well its hard to explain..
I'm not a purist by the wildest stretch of the word and I don't care if anyone cuts up any VW/ Porsche as long as it retains the aircooled engine. The one thing that separates the aircooled VW/ Porsche from every other generic car on the planet is the powerplant.. Whats the use in owning one if you get rid of that trait??
Hell I'm the guy that took the very last VW Bug conmvertible ever sold in the US and ripped its original engine out and replaced it with a 175 HP TIV when the car only had TWENTY SEVEN miles on it and still had the paper dealer plates intact.. But it stayed aircooled. If that would have been my car I would not have done it, but the open wallet and the customers lust for being different was noted so I did it.... So- I'm not a purist..
I like what I like and I practice what I preach and what I work with every day.. I refuse to come in here and offer aircooled advice knowing that I drove a watercooled car to work....
So....don't crucify me for being hardcore- thats the problem with todays world, not enough people have strong enough beliefs to get the damn job done, thats not the case here..
BTW- All the numbers add up and they DO point to the facts that water IS a better cooling medium than air and I WILL admit that- BUT that fact isn't going to keep the guys with aircooled cars on the road that want to retain the unique characteristic of aircooling, now is it??
you gotta love the fact that Jake is a hardcore loyalist to the aircooled engine...for me, it's a love/hate relationship with air and watercooled engines since I have both and like/dislike each method of cooling.
Jake when I said purist, I ment the fact that your pure and loyal to the aircooled engines...
Thank you for going past your claim and admitting that radiator cars do not suck.
Each has its pro's and cons.
Obviously, the pro's to radiators outweight the pro's to aircooled because of what is current in todays cars.
I havent had an aircooled engine I liked. But i've only had one. So my opinion is biast.
If I build a T4 go cart, (its in my plans) then Im sure that biast may change.
Andrew
I like simplicity and it doesn't get much simpler that a cooling fan and no radiator....
yup, its all the simplicity of it, how many hours do you have making sure your engine specs run cool. lets see air volumn, cooling fine surface, oil cooler surface, air pths, etc etc
if it was so easy how long and why did you have to make a dtm for a 914, why not just bolts on parts.... because it wont work.... nice and simple
jake you make nice motors, but they cost money, mostly due to the time you put in to them, heck the parts are not much when compared to labor at 50 $ per hour or what ever you charge.
but some people ( myself included ) like the thought of air cooled but when hp per $, and how long it will last gets in to it, we will go H2O. i also think some people want a more modern 914, thats why we have gone H2O, bigger brakes, new seats, new shifters etc etc.
i would bet that if somebody made a modern 914, with a water cooled engine, ps, pb, ac, nicer seats but all with the classic look of a 914 almost every body here would be lining up to test drive and maybe even buy one.
my question to all of the members here ? would you buy a car that WAS and IS a 914 that you could just jump in to and drive in almost any weather all the time?
I noticed this same "upgread" upgrade thread has been posted on many different forums out there (including Pelican, Rennlist, Shoptalk, etc.) and in every place, Jake gets recommended.
Kudos Jake, it's good to see a consistent solid reputation out there.
I've always wanted to do a v8 conversion. But when I finally have the bucks saved up I will first look hard at a 180+hp RAT motor with a DTM cooling system that just bolts in.
QUOTE (scott thacher @ Oct 5 2005, 03:24 PM) |
yup, its all the simplicity of it, how many hours do you have making sure your engine specs run cool. lets see air volumn, cooling fine surface, oil cooler surface, air pths, etc etc if it was so easy how long and why did you have to make a dtm for a 914, why not just bolts on parts.... because it wont work.... nice and simple jake you make nice motors, but they cost money, mostly due to the time you put in to them, heck the parts are not much when compared to labor at 50 $ per hour or what ever you charge. but some people ( myself included ) like the thought of air cooled but when hp per $, and how long it will last gets in to it, we will go H2O. i also think some people want a more modern 914, thats why we have gone H2O, bigger brakes, new seats, new shifters etc etc. i would bet that if somebody made a modern 914, with a water cooled engine, ps, pb, ac, nicer seats but all with the classic look of a 914 almost every body here would be lining up to test drive and maybe even buy one. my question to all of the members here ? would you buy a car that WAS and IS a 914 that you could just jump in to and drive in almost any weather all the time? |
mike, i am not missing the point, yes i like the type 4, and would have installed a 175 hp type in my car if i could have done it for 2700, and not had to pull it every 50 k for a refresh. also if it did not need to be touched every 3 k miles. yes i did this and i enjoyed some parts of it, heck i put 30 k on my car in 18 months so i got real quick at doing valve adjusts. my car spent on average 2 days a month having some thing done to it.
if i was racing my car i would send jake a big check, or if my car was a show car i would be calling jake, but my car is a driver.
jake has taken up where VW stopped, and he has really improved it in some areas. if some one wants to stay air cooled then go porsche 6 or raby, and i have told probably about 40 people over the last 5 years about jake and will continue to.
when some one decides they want more hp they have to decide raby or six or swap, then go from there. in this decision it falls down to a few things, like cost, relibility ( which jake has ) easy of swap, and final out come. and by final out come i mean things like if they are happy, if they would have done something else when its complete etc
QUOTE |
would you buy a car that WAS and IS a 914 that you could just jump in to and drive in almost any weather all the time? |
QUOTE |
I also think some people want a more modern 914, thats why we have gone H2O, bigger brakes, new seats, new shifters etc etc |
settle guys arent we all here to enjoy our 914s why argue and get upset obviously jake is very competent and has quite the reputation for what he does and thats his choice of opinion we all have the same reason to be here we love OUR version of the 914 so lets not
just appreciate someone elses hard work even if we dont like what they have done ,its there car hence their problem
Fieros would be cool, if they where a porsche, had more power, and sounded better... not to mention looked better..
There are plenty of T4's and aircooleds being run daily in all weather...
Well... Slap a Subaru engine in a Fiero...
Part of a Porsche to me is being aircooled- the new Porsches aren't really Porsche's either- they have damn radiators too!
What pisses me off it they actually had the gall to call that new thing they came up with a damn Carrera GT..
This is a REAL Carrera GT and I don't see a piece of plastic OR a damn radiator..
Real carrera have 4 cams, and no radiator- justlike this one.. The marketing freak at Porsche that named that new thing the carrera GT needs his ass beat..
Don't you guys love me???
i have the suby conversion in my 914
but if i ever see a suby motor in that i will kill the person who did it
we all want something nice and a 914 is in the grasp of most (thankfully)
porsche has evolved like all else but we DO need those who will not deviate from the original so that beautiful cars like that gt will always be
the, distributor caps are plastic I think... *cough
And yes, there are cars like that that should be pure.
I'll give you the keys to a new carrera gt or an old one...
and I'd bet i'd know which one you'd pick...
Im sorry dave, I just cant do that. Dave, dave.
Im sorry, but I like what porsche was and what porsche is. I consider it 2 company's. And Im proud of what both have accomplished.
Andrew
Which dizzy caps are plastic?? On the new GT or the old one??
The old ones were bakelite..
Yep, I know which Carrera I'd take, it's the one in the pics.. It sold for 420,000 bucks 2 months after I finished it's powerplant..
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Oct 5 2005, 08:20 PM) |
Which dizzy caps are plastic?? On the new GT or the old one?? The old ones were bakelite.. Yep, I know which Carrera I'd take, it's the one in the pics.. It sold for 420,000 bucks 2 months after I finished it's powerplant.. |
I have always liked the aircooled motors I've had.
1600 T1
2110 T1
1.8 T4
1776 T1
2.0 T4
2.0 SIX
The fact of the matter is, they can't be relied on day in day out without extensive regular maintenance.
( My Nissan doesn't even require a tune up until 105k miles )
For a hobby/race car, that's fine. Half the fun is wrenching.
I'm not going to say *ALL*, but almost all of the vehicles that are called on for day in day out reliabilty, fire, police, buses, taxi's, work trucks, not to mention millions and millions of passenger cars have radiators...It's OK.
I'll always have an aircooled if possible, but never as my driver.
KT
from my 10 second research of bakelite, it is a plastic... just an early one...
yes, I knew you'd pick the original. And I understand why.
(tis why I did the quote..)
QUOTE |
The fact of the matter is, they can't be relied on day in day out without extensive regular maintenance |
Jake I have a cabin up in White county off of Bean Creek Rd. in Sutee. I try to make it up there 2/3 times a week. Where are you located at?? Might stop by sometime.
Bob
You go right by my shop and don't even known it..
I'm off the Helen Highway (GA 75) about 1.5 miles from the red light in Cleveland...As you go up the Helen Hwy when you pass the White County Jail and Senior center look up high on top of the hill behind the jail and thats where I'm at in total seclusion..
With the leaves falling quickly you'll be able to see my shop in about 3 weeks (damn I hate that)
Give me a call when you think you might want to stop by. I'm not open to the public but you could stop in as long as I have a day or two notice..
BTW- If you are ever in the woods by your cabin and hear a sound that is close to a WWII airplane dive bombing- thats me on the dyno.. It can be heard over 10 miles away most of the time!
sounds like you have all the fun jake do the locals ever complain? or do they just get told to f off
They used to complain... Years ago the first time I fired up the dyno was at 3 Am... No one knew what the hell it was..
Now they have learned that complaining gets them no where at all, except MORE noise... We have no noise ordnance and the cops love to hear engines scream so when someone does call them they come up and watch me and thats about all....
Once one neighbor called me and said it was so loud in his garage that he could not talk to his wife.... so I then made sure to run my TIV powered cam testing device for 48 solid hours and didn't shut it off all night... That was a reminder that the more he complained the worse it *could* be...
They have learned not to complain.... Hell most of them have moved, but thats okay because we were here first and own more land than they do anyway.....
Just wait till the second dyno is up and going, I can test TWO engines at once and run the cam test device all at the same time..... Thats going to be unbearable!
Youll have the opportunity to buy more land soon.... lol
damn i might have to make a trip over just to see that hahahaha
most of my neighbours either join in or move even the 80+ granny gives the thumbs up she often asks about whats going on and get this she even wants a drive of the 914
the police dont understand here they just want REVENUE so you cant fart after 10pm
QUOTE |
Youll have the opportunity to buy more land soon.... lol |
I drive rice because it is cheap, reliable and fast. 300hp, 36MPG @90mph, heat that works all the time, (and doesn't require extra gas heaters to do it), pulls 1G on the pad, Insurance is a dollar, factory parts are a dollar and easy to come by, and room to carry three bikes inside out of the weather. What's your point? Compare my stock rice to your stock kraut can and I can assure you my rice was much nicer.
QUOTE |
This is a REAL Carrera GT and I don't see a piece of plastic OR a damn radiator.. |
This is a good time to bite my lip and shut the Fucc up......
Clayton
QUOTE |
Nice, too bad you can't afford to drive it. |
QUOTE |
Engine maintainence alone will keep it in the garage. |
QUOTE |
What's a tune up cost for one 15K. |
QUOTE |
Looks nice sitting in a museum, but will never show up in the real world. |
QUOTE |
Compare my stock rice to your stock kraut can and I can assure you my rice was much nicer. |
QUOTE |
I still like my 914 even though it shifts like shit, |
QUOTE |
leaks like hell when it rains, |
QUOTE |
and sounds like a damn diesel engine when it gets hot. |
QUOTE |
Are you saying that I couldn't afford to drive it or that no one else could?? Trust me, the guy that did own it could and did afford to drive it EVEN IN ATLANTA TRAFFIC pretty much on a daily basis. |
QUOTE |
Thats according to what "Real World" you live in... In my world cool things like this pop up from time to time! |
QUOTE |
Whats wrong, you can't change a few simple bushings and use some common sense to install some spherical bearings to support the shift rod a tad better? |
QUOTE |
Use thicker oil, or make sure it doesn't "Get that hot".... It's not rocket science..... Jeez, I'm sure someone with your skills could conquer it, hell I'm a dumbass but my teener don't leak and until diesels can turn 8500 RPM it won't be sounding like one either! Use thicker oil, or make sure it doesn't "Get that hot".... |
QUOTE (bender @ Oct 4 2005, 11:26 AM) |
hi guys i want to upgread my 1973 1.8 engine i want 2 stay with 4 cyl and i want around 150-180 hp were can i do it? how? kits? do you know prices range? thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Getting big HP will be expensive...
Drive what you have, make it reliable and safe.
Do a bigger motor or a conversion after you have done your homework.
KT
Yep-
I just realized how bad we hijacked this one...
Sorry dude- Brett and I will argue somewhere else.
type4 can turbo for quite cheap if you have the time and welding skills .As for the efi set up there are a lot out there and they all do the same thing from fuel to timimg and a lot of thing that you will not need .if you have a 2.0 type4 with a mild turbo efi set up you can see 180 daily driver .any thing over this is hand full to drive day to day .
Do your home work befor you spend your cash .i do not know what all the fuss is over when you get the power you will not use it unles you are at the track trust me i have the power and it is not all it is cracked up to be .
180-200hp is a lot of fun
I drive around with low boost @ 230hp this a good daily driver on high boost you just hang on and hope for the best
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