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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Subaru transmission installation
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 1 2005, 02:04 PM
That's a Suby AWD trans converted to RWD with 2 parts <!-- emo&:beer2: -->
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Convertor sleeve: AUD$120.00
Blanking plate: AUD$110.00
If bought together, total price AUD$210.00
Looks like a side shift linkage could be tweaked to work.
I just bought a 2005 (EJ25) engine and trans (2000 miles) for the 914 - let the fun begin.
I just sent an e-mail to sakercars to check on parts availability.
Steve. <!-- emo&:beer3: -->
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Posted by: d914 Nov 1 2005, 02:27 PM
I'm a little a head of you on that one..been talking to them for awhile...about $500 for the kit with some intructions..been waiting availablitity..
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 1 2005, 03:24 PM
hi guys looks good all info on this would be good as there is a guy over here that would appreciate it he has an 04 sti with six speed but no shift linkages as yet 
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Posted by: guiltless Nov 1 2005, 04:11 PM
I hear that the cable shifter system off of some Eclipses may work.
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 1 2005, 05:40 PM
their over here 
im on there case 
Posted by: Loser_Cruiser Nov 1 2005, 07:37 PM
So were can one got to get these parts? Also how would an eclipses cable shifter work? the transmissions are in the front of those.
Posted by: lapuwali Nov 1 2005, 07:49 PM
Cables don't care if they're going forwards or backwards, so long as they're long enough. Two cables and a bit of linkage and you can operating a tail shifter with no bushing problems. The Scoupe is another car that has a linkage that's apparently quite adaptable. I'm sure several fwd cars have readily adaptable setups. You can also buy push-pull cables from McMaster-Carr and just use linkage bits off other cars. You might even make the Subaru setup work.
Posted by: fiid Nov 1 2005, 07:52 PM
MMMMmmmmm... Six speed.
It's got to be done.
Posted by: guiltless Nov 1 2005, 10:47 PM
When someone actually does it let me know. It is exactly what I am going to mate to my race 2.5t (when I get that built)
Posted by: Mueller Nov 2 2005, 07:54 AM
if the kit costs 500 bucks, what benifit do you achieve here besides a supply of new transmissions?
Seems awefully expensive, but without seeing the parts that's kind of unfair to say that 
Posted by: d914 Nov 2 2005, 08:10 AM
Partly:
- newer cheaper trannys with plenty of expensive options
- eliminate the adapter plate (some $$) stock clutch, stock and aftermarket fly wheels.
- possibly stronger
- Took the note from Brad on the main bearing races being bad. Alittle of looking to the future save the good old boxes, tear up the subyies...
- high performace 6 speed option, also much stronger.. $3+k
- standard shift pattern, looking for a true daily beater, again if I trash one its $500 or less for a replacement in good condition. Possibility of adapting their cv's, haven't gotten that far.
- it sounded like a cool idea!!!! still have a good 901 box and will probably hold on to it in reserve and or flexabilty to future projects...
- track use 3-4 gear shifts, most often used here, stright up and down, alittle safer than the cross shift of the 901..
Posted by: db9146 Nov 2 2005, 08:10 AM
Anyone heard of mounting a Suby trans behind a large 6 (3.2 or 3.6)? If the parts are readily available to convert an AWD to a RWD and the stock WRXs are putting out 300hp, this seems like another potential option to a really expensive 915 or a lot of work on an Audi trans.
Thoughts?
Posted by: d914 Nov 2 2005, 08:28 AM
Kind of, saker motor sports makes a mid-engine sports racer using subaru engine and trannies. They also subsitude in lexus v-8's and such. For a v-8 or high hp motor i'd look at the sti tranny. 3-4k but little to no modification, 6 speed, and plenty of aftermarket support for the high $$ guys.. billet gears, dog gears , etc...
Posted by: airsix Nov 2 2005, 11:32 AM
since the modifiaction cost is about the same as the cost of adapting the 901 to the Suby motor I'd look at this for the following reasons:
- Is the FWD modified Suby tranny strong enough?
- Does it shift faster than the 901 (surely it does)
- What is the weight compared to the 901?
- Does the shifting feel better than the 901 (surely yes)
- Are the CV's stronger?
-Ben M.
Posted by: Matt Monson Nov 2 2005, 11:39 AM
Go drive a 6spd Subaru before you commit your $$$ to one of those trannies. For a street driven car, I would never want one. They are super close ratio and you shift all the time around town. I would take a 5spd out of an RS over an STi 6spd anyday. And I really doubt you can adapt a cable clutch to them either. They are push style, and hydraulic. But it really shouldn't be that hard to make the OE Subaru master and slave cylinder work on it if you are resourceful...
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 2 2005, 12:32 PM
Here is everything I know so far,
There was a little confusion with RWD and FWD - they use the term FWD to describe the AWD transmission with the original stuff to drive the rear end removed.
Suby 2 wheel drive conversion parts
G'day Guy,
Yes, we do have the parts to convert the Subaru box to 2wd. The parts for the
conversion consist of a machined locking sleeve and a cast aluminium backing
plate for the extension housing. Please note that these items will only suit a
5 speed Subaru box, not the 6 speed.
Prices for the parts are as follows:
Convertor sleeve: AUD$120.00
Blanking plate: AUD$110.00
If bought together, total price AUD$210.00
All prices are in Australian dollars and shipping will be additional to these
prices.
Please let me know if you would like to go ahead with your order, and don't
hesitate to contact us if you have any further questions.
Best Regards,
Brett Longhurst,
Saker Cars Australia
www.sakercars.com.au
Hi Steve,
The parts we have actually convert the AWD box to front wheel drive for use as a transaxle in a rear mount engine configuration. The extension housing is removed from the rear of the gearbox and a blanking plate fitted to centre diff housing. All the torque is sent to the front diff inside the gearbox.
Converting the box to RWD is a different matter, which we haven't done before.
If you get stuck, we could possibly look into what would be required to do a RWD conversion for you, but I can't make any promises. What application are you using the gearbox in?
Best Regards,
Brett Longhurst,
Saker Cars Australia
www.sakercars.com.au
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 3 2005, 12:49 PM
Some more info for those interested.
Hi Steve,
Sorry for the misunderstanding... Yes we still have parts in stock.
There are three options for shipping:
- Economy air mail, 2-4 weeks delivery, $37AUD
- Air mail, 3-10 business days delivery, $46AUD
- EMS International Courier, priority handling, door to door, $63AUD
Let me know which shipping you would prefer, and I will send you an itemised invoice for payment. Once we recieve payment, we will despatch the goods to your address, which you will also need to provide me. Simple as that!
So just let me know about the shipping and your delivery address, and I'll forward an invoice on to you.
Kind Regards,
Brett Longhurst,
Saker Cars Australia.
www.sakercars.com.au
1 AUD = 0.74 USD today
Parts plus air mail = 189.44 USD
Anyone interesed?
Posted by: Brett W Nov 3 2005, 01:00 PM
The Suby tranny seems like decent option, but why not go with the Audi gearbox. Yes it will require an adapter plate but it is probably a stronger tranny.
As far as the cable shift look at the Honda Accord. You won't be able to use the cables from any FWD car. You will have to get custom length cables. I would really look at spending good cheese on nice cables. Having a good feeling shifter is something that all 914 owners strive for.
Posted by: Brian Mifsud Nov 3 2005, 01:19 PM
Does anyone have any numbers on what the Subaru boxes are rated for in Torque (ft-lbs)?
Having a six speed is nice if you have a peaky high reving engine where it's tough to stay in the torque band.
Posted by: airsix Nov 3 2005, 02:28 PM
| QUOTE (Brian Mifsud @ Nov 3 2005, 11:19 AM) |
| Does anyone have any numbers on what the Subaru boxes are rated for in Torque (ft-lbs)? |
More specifically, how much torque can it handle when converted like this so that 100% of the tourque goes to what were previously the front axles.
-Ben M.
Posted by: Matt Monson Nov 3 2005, 02:38 PM
| QUOTE (Brian Mifsud @ Nov 3 2005, 11:19 AM) |
| Does anyone have any numbers on what the Subaru boxes are rated for in Torque (ft-lbs)? Having a six speed is nice if you have a peaky high reving engine where it's tough to stay in the torque band. |
Up until the recent drops in HP and tq on those cars, they used to be delivered with 280/280 from the factory for the late '90's and into MY00. People consistently put upwards of 350 through them. And there are significantly stronger gearsets available if you are going for broke. I have Albins gearsets for them, and PPG, also in Australia makes gears. But they are not cheap. Like $2500 or more a set. Stay away from the modern STi-RA replacments you can find for $1500 or so. They are no longer made by Albins and people are seeing failures right and left...
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 3 2005, 05:01 PM
These parts are only for the 5-speed trans.
The only thing that would see more stress in the AWD to 2 wheel drive is all of the power will be going thru the ring and pinion intsead of some to the rear and some to the front. The actuall transmission portion doesn't know how many diffs it is driving.
The Audi transmissions have the starter in the wrong place and facing the wrong way for a Suby or VW engine.
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 3 2005, 05:04 PM
I'm going to order one set of parts within 24 hours - anybody want to add to the order?
Steve.
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 4 2005, 02:29 AM
i am also talking to them as to whether or not this will fit the auto box just incase anyone is interested , i am currently running the auto with my ej20t
hey what about the speedo anyone? anyone?
darned if i know ,any ideas anyone?
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Posted by: Porcharu Nov 4 2005, 10:11 AM
The FWD automatics should be easy to find, no need to convert an AWD unit.
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 5 2005, 02:30 AM
cant say ive ever even seen one here and mine is a 94 box but i will investigate 
Posted by: guiltless Nov 6 2005, 02:38 AM
Just spoke with a suby owner buddy of mine and he is saying that the 5-speed of choice for the high power WRX guys is the STI RA from the Version5 STI. Very strong tranny with 5 gears instead of 6 that are right on top of each other.
Posted by: db9146 Nov 6 2005, 11:29 AM
This is some good info but just to clarify for myself, you are all talking about which Suby trans to use behind a Suby engine, correct? Has anyone mated a Suby trans to a Porsche -6?
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 10 2005, 08:41 AM
I just found out that a bank wire transfer costs $50. Does anyone else want to split the wire transfer costs? I am ready to order the parts and have 2 other people that want 3 kits. $190 per kit plus a portion of the wire transfer and shiping to your place.
I am placing the order on Monday.
Steve
BTW - Sager is changing from the cast aluminum plate to a CNC'd billet aluminum plate. They even offered to put the club logo on the part if we have a group buy.
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 10 2005, 08:42 AM
I forgot to add that this kit is only for the 5 speed - NOT the 6 speed.
Posted by: andys Nov 10 2005, 10:44 AM
| QUOTE (srbliss @ Nov 10 2005, 06:41 AM) |
| I just found out that a bank wire transfer costs $50. Does anyone else want to split the wire transfer costs? I am ready to order the parts and have 2 other people that want 3 kits. $190 per kit plus a portion of the wire transfer and shiping to your place. I am placing the order on Monday. Steve BTW - Sager is changing from the cast aluminum plate to a CNC'd billet aluminum plate. They even offered to put the club logo on the part if we have a group buy. |
If you're dealing with a reputable vendor, simply use a credit card to avoid wire transfer fees. You'll also nail down the exchange rate, otherwise it may change during the transfer process.
Andys
Posted by: fiid Nov 10 2005, 01:04 PM
You could also just mail him a check. The banks will take some fees and it's exposed to currency fluctuation, but it doesn't cost $50.
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 18 2005, 10:25 PM
| QUOTE (srbliss @ Nov 4 2005, 08:11 AM) |
| The FWD automatics should be easy to find, no need to convert an AWD unit. |
spoke to a guy who is mad on early kombies ex porsche mechanic over here he put me on the right track with the 2wd auto so i might just have to see how much they can hold for $450 a pop, he also told me that they look just like a normal box with out the rear drive and that the rear cover has a mount cast into it it may be useful information
Posted by: MrKona Nov 21 2005, 05:56 PM
Hi guys,
I'm contemplating a suby conversion "one day", and the thought of have a 914 with crisp modern shifting is really enticing. I'm a little ignorant on mechanical things outside of the 914 though...
1. Am I reading correctly that the Subaru transmission uses cables, rather than a shift bar?
2. How would you mate up the rear transmission case to the 914? Fabricate custom mounts for the 914 body mount areas?
3. This plan works with the Subaru automatic as well as the manual?
Thanks - Again, pardon my ignorance...
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 23 2005, 02:29 AM
1. not 100% but shaft i think but u would probably use cables
2.you can use the original mounting points of the 914
the five & six speeds have a mount under the box straight below the 914 ones, auto awd need to have a mount built to support as its nearer to the rear of the box as well as the 2wd auto as i have been let to believe,
so to say they have to be fabricated although not very technical
good luck 
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 23 2005, 03:04 PM
I am planning on using the original (914) shifter and as much of the linkage as possible.
Yes custom mounts need to be made up.
The auto trans should be easier to swap in, no clutch linkage and a very simple "shifter"
Posted by: nsyr Nov 23 2005, 10:21 PM
what about cv hookup?
Posted by: MrKona Nov 28 2005, 01:50 AM
So let me make sure I've got this right... If you use an automatic transmission, you are (theoretically) using the stock shift linkage (and some cable possibly) to shift from "1" to "2" to "P" and "R", as if you could with a standard automatic transmission? (Minus a torque converter)
You'd lose the need (and the ability) to drive with a clutch?
Also, regarding NSYR's question, have you give thought to the CVs?
Thanks - this topic is pretty interesting... 
Posted by: MrKona Nov 28 2005, 01:58 AM
On second thought, I guess the torque converter is part of the automatic transmission... very confusing, must go to bed. ![yellowsleep[1].gif](http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/yellowsleep[1].gif)
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 28 2005, 04:38 PM
found some 2wd trannies over here $1100aud what a joke i can buy an awd wrx with auto front cut for 2000.
914 cvs with suby outputs mated to them it looks factory
suby shifter, looked at longer cable ,up under dash down side of car into boot down through floor to auto, this then is the same as the suby, b&m make longer cables that would be very simmilar
autos have 4.1-1 final drive
manuals have 2 . 3.7-1 , 3.9-1 (as i have been told)
took some pics with the slr this morning will have them developed and post tonight ej20 auto in the car with the extension housing removed including cvs 
Posted by: jsteele22 Nov 28 2005, 04:45 PM
I did a little reading about Subaru trannys and I've got a few questions for those who know anything about these beasties.
1) Will any tranny that came from an EJ series engine bolt on to any other EJ series engine (in particular from a EJ22 car to a EJ25) ? I know gear ratios and strength come into play, but I'm just asking about the physical fit.
2) Does the manual tranny (5 speed) have any sort of electronic interface, or is it purely a passive mechanical system ?
3) For the auto tranny, it sounds like there is NOT an available part to convert AWD to FWD, right ? So I guess that means finding a FWD tranny. Anybody know what kind of electronic info is required to control these ? I think I read that some Suby trannys have an input to control the shift points based on RPM and pedal stompage. I wouldn't mind coding this in MegaSquirt, but I have no idea what kind of I/O the tranny expects.
4) srbliss : Have you got your conversion parts ? Any comments ?
FWIW, my long national EBay nightmare is entering week 8. Supposedly I have a fresh EJ25 engine that has progressed from NY to a loading dock somewhere in Michigan, but I've got serious doubts..... WIsh me luck.
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 29 2005, 12:39 AM
| QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Nov 28 2005, 02:45 PM) |
| I did a little reading about Subaru trannys and I've got a few questions for those who know anything about these beasties. 1) Will any tranny that came from an EJ series engine bolt on to any other EJ series engine (in particular from a EJ22 car to a EJ25) ? I know gear ratios and strength come into play, but I'm just asking about the physical fit. 2) Does the manual tranny (5 speed) have any sort of electronic interface, or is it purely a passive mechanical system ? 3) For the auto tranny, it sounds like there is NOT an available part to convert AWD to FWD, right ? So I guess that means finding a FWD tranny. Anybody know what kind of electronic info is required to control these ? I think I read that some Suby trannys have an input to control the shift points based on RPM and pedal stompage. I wouldn't mind coding this in MegaSquirt, but I have no idea what kind of I/O the tranny expects. 4) srbliss : Have you got your conversion parts ? Any comments ? FWIW, my long national EBay nightmare is entering week 8. Supposedly I have a fresh EJ25 engine that has progressed from NY to a loading dock somewhere in Michigan, but I've got serious doubts..... WIsh me luck. |
1) I "think" any trans from "any" EJ series engine will bolt to "any" EJ engine, some have 4 bolts and the newer ones have 8.
2) The 5 speed has 2 swithes on it. I would guess one is for the reverse lights and the other is neutral switch. No other wires on the trans.
3) I don't know - I do know that lots of FWD autos were made, even the 6 cyl SVX came in FWD.
4) I have not got the parts - still sorting out payment to Australia, looks like Paypal is the way to go.
CV joints are "supposed" to be a no brainer as the splines on the Subaru shafts are the same as the 914. I don't have my shafts yet so I don't know for sure if this is true.
Steve
Good luck on getting your engine.
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 30 2005, 04:25 PM
Take a look here for Subaru service manuals. Loads of information on the automatic control stuff.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/
Posted by: jsteele22 Nov 30 2005, 06:45 PM
| QUOTE (srbliss @ Nov 30 2005, 03:25 PM) |
| Take a look here for Subaru service manuals. Loads of information on the automatic control stuff. http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/ |
Thanks, great link. I learned that I really don't want an automatic !
Posted by: guiltless Nov 30 2005, 08:36 PM
Here's the question I have... How do we shift the damn thing? I know that cable shifting shows much potential...
One thing that concerns me is that I would like to use dog engagement on gears 1-4, whether I get to or not is a different story, and solid linkage is the only thing that really works for that. So... is it possible to fabricate a series of pivots that would allow the use of solid rod linkage?
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 30 2005, 09:03 PM
Like I said earlier - I plan on using the stock style linkage with the Subaru transmission. I don't see why it can't be done.
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 30 2005, 09:46 PM
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Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 30 2005, 09:47 PM
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Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 30 2005, 09:48 PM
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Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 30 2005, 09:49 PM
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Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 30 2005, 09:51 PM
am i 
or not
i will be talking to the guys with the conversion stuff here to see if this is the same as the five speeds or not 
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Posted by: Porcharu Dec 1 2005, 03:31 PM
I was talking about the manual transmission shift linkage. The auto should be a snap, just use the Suby lever and a longer cable to move the lever on the trans. I am pretty sure they use a simple lever to shift it and not a nest of motors and wires - I hope so at least.
What did you use for axles on yours???
Posted by: banksyinoz Dec 2 2005, 04:19 AM
will be pulling the shafts soon but they look factory aqnd i have been told that they are 914 shafts mated to suby box output shafts(b efore the cv)when i pull them i will post 
Posted by: jsteele22 Dec 2 2005, 03:32 PM
I came across this page by a guy putting a Suby tranny in a Spyder. It has some useful info including pictures and measurements. One thing that I had never seen clearly was the shift mechanism. From the pics, it looks like this is a "tail shifter" (which is just what you'd want for a front-mounted engine.)
http://brookespeed.v21hosting.co.uk/plans/plans.htm
BTW, I saw this in a forum that might be useful for people reading this thread :
http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28
Posted by: nsyr Jan 2 2006, 06:05 PM
Time to bring this to the front again.
I am having a hard time seeing how the cv's actually hook up. are they the 914 or the subaru cv's that are actually used?
I have a wrx motor that i am putting in my teener and i am going to try to put the subaru 2wd 5spd in with it. this may not be the best tranny but it is worth a shot. i can get one from an early 90's legacy for cheap.
Posted by: d914 Jan 2 2006, 09:16 PM
here is a view that might help, not a 914 but an approach
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Posted by: Porcharu Jan 2 2006, 09:39 PM
That's exactly what I am thinking along the lines of. Might need to use a u joint or 2 but, it should be fairly simple.
Posted by: guiltless Jan 3 2006, 03:34 AM
Ohhhh. Thats nice. That would make the dog gear shifting possible as well.
Posted by: Andyrew Jan 3 2006, 04:07 AM
Im watchin this thread...
I still wana get 25 mpg out of my v8... and I know its doable with the right gearing.
Posted by: slivel Jan 3 2006, 11:39 AM
Does anyone know if the output shafts of the Suby trans are in the same vertical and horizontal planes as the Porsche trans? If not how much are they different? I'm not sure how much constant angle a CV joint can take on a continouus basis if the locating points are significantly different. Also I haven't heard a good explanation (either) of what CV's, axles, or adapters are going to be required. Anyone???
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 3 2006, 11:51 AM
| QUOTE (slivel @ Jan 3 2006, 09:39 AM) |
| Does anyone know if the output shafts of the Suby trans are in the same vertical and horizontal planes as the Porsche trans? If not how much are they different? I'm not sure how much constant angle a CV joint can take on a continouus basis if the locating points are significantly different. Also I haven't heard a good explanation (either) of what CV's, axles, or adapters are going to be required. Anyone??? |
The outputs are slightly different. I know that the Suby outputs are closer to the bellhousing flange (I think by about 1-1/2") and I "think" they are a little bit higher up on the case. I will try to measure things this evening.
I plan on mounting the whole thing so the CV outputs are in the stock 914 location - this should allow an extra 1-1/2 more room in front of the engine for my unique radiator idea.
I am still waiting to recieve my halfshafts from the Suby (I forgot to pick them up) once I have them I should have a good idea on what is needed to mate the Suby trans to the 914 hubs.
Steve
Posted by: Mueller Jan 3 2006, 03:31 PM
Hey Steve...
I know on the V8 conversions the transmission is moved back at least 1.50", it might even drop down a little...anyone confirm or deny that?
oh yea, thanks for the manual for the computer...
Posted by: nsyr Jan 14 2006, 07:00 PM
After doing some research, I believe the way to hook up the cv's is to use 914 shafts and cv's adapted to the suby's output flange/cv. This is done by cutting down the suby flange (cutting off the cv part) and affixing the 914 cv to the remaining part. I still don't know how it would attach, the cv has a much larger diameter than the flange. Any thoughts?
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 15 2006, 01:13 AM
I finally got my axles - and they are crap. Covered in boat anchor type rust. They go back on Monday. I should have good ones by end of next week.
If the splines are different from the 914 the easiest way to adapt will probably be to cut 
the Suby joint off so just the flange remains and machine a new 914 bolt flange to weld 
to what is left of the Suby part.
Posted by: nsyr Jan 15 2006, 10:04 AM
That is exactly what i was thinking. Take a look at the spyder at http://www.petermcleod.com/petesrides.html. He is using 914 trailing arms with a suby tranny. The pics are small and not very focused on the cv's, but I believe that is what this person did. I tried emailing him but it came back as undelivered.
Posted by: speedster356 Jan 17 2006, 12:34 AM
Sorry about that, I must update the email address on my site.
That's my 550 replica with the Subaru WRX/2WD gearbox. I bought the car in NZ quite a few years ago with the smaller 1.8ltr turbo and 2WD box, I installed the WRX engine and Liberty box about 1.5 years ago. I'm sure that the drive shafts are Subaru and mated to the 914 CVs as suggested above at the outboard ends. I currently have the box out to install an LSD so I'll get some photos and post them tomorrow. I found the 2WD box was fine for hillclimbs, supersprints and plenty of drag racing. Having said that I dont do 6000 RPM launches though. I also only run small 195/50/15 Yokohama AO32Rs so the box hasn't been loaded up very much at all plus the cars race weight is only 720kg. I can be contacted now via this website.
Cheers from downunder
Pete Mcleod.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 17 2006, 06:49 AM
Despite $500 for the aussy conversion parts - it is still a less expensive option than - KEP parts - nothing at all against KEP as they are first class - I am watching this thread as I am interested in the lowest cost option to putting bigger HP in my 914. Keep us posted : )
Posted by: Mueller Jan 17 2006, 12:40 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 17 2006, 05:49 AM) |
| Despite $500 for the aussy conversion parts - it is still a less expensive option than - KEP parts - nothing at all against KEP as they are first class - I am watching this thread as I am interested in the lowest cost option to putting bigger HP in my 914. Keep us posted : ) |
i agree....I like the fact that one could go down to the Subaru store and buy the flywheel or whatever parts that wear out more easily.
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 17 2006, 02:56 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 17 2006, 04:49 AM) |
| Despite $500 for the aussy conversion parts - it is still a less expensive option than - KEP parts - nothing at all against KEP as they are first class - I am watching this thread as I am interested in the lowest cost option to putting bigger HP in my 914. Keep us posted : ) |
The cost of the Ausi parts was more like $225 USD delivered, not $500.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 17 2006, 03:04 PM
| QUOTE (srbliss @ Jan 17 2006, 01:56 PM) | ||
The cost of the Ausi parts was more like $225 USD delivered, not $500. |
any idea when you'll be getting the parts?
had any time to work on your Bridgeport?
Posted by: fiid Jan 17 2006, 03:21 PM
I could easily be persuaded to go with a subaru trans if we can work out the adaptation in a reasonably cost effective manner.
Any ideas if it would be possible to adapt the 6 speed from the STi? I seem to remember that the Aussie sleeves wouldn't work with that transmission... How much is an STi tranny likely to cost?
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 17 2006, 07:26 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 17 2006, 01:04 PM) | ||||
any idea when you'll be getting the parts? had any time to work on your Bridgeport? |
I think the parts are shipping right now
The baby is slowing stuff down a bit
So far on the mill I have a nice VFD to take care of the 3-phase problem, some really cool encoders to use for MPG's and a set of huge 1.2HP AC servos for the axis drives.
Posted by: wbergtho Jan 17 2006, 08:09 PM
Here's my two cents: I have a 500HP LS6 crammed into my 74 and have learned a few hard lessons along the way. Of course, my car is a bit extreme and requires a more robust gearbox than most projects out there, there are a few freaks (like myself) that want to explore insane performance and at the same time have a certain degree of reliability. I would say that if your project gets close to the 400HP range...you are now entering the broken 915 transaxle zone...and often! I started with 450HP and knew a 901 wouldn't handle it...so I had a 915 built at CA Motorsports (LSD, tall 5th, reversed ring & pinion, etc) to the tune of $4,600. I put 2K on the car and blew 2nd gear off the shaft! I rebuilt the trans again at CA Motorsports, upgraded my motor to 500HP and said goodbye to the 915 on E-Bay. The guy who bought it has around 400HP and should have way better luck with it. Now what to do? With an open budget, the best option is a G50/50 turbo transaxle inverted and connected to a custom cable actuated sideshifter. Here's the problem...I don't own Microsoft and don't have $12,000-13,000 laying around. Believe it or not, that's what that system costs w/ clutch and all. So I ended up having my favorite trans expert, Bobby Hart of CA Motorsports, build be a reversed ring & pinion, short bell 930 turbo gearbox. It won't shift nearly as well as a modern G50 series gearbox...but it'll handle over 700 HP with the use of an oil cooler and Tilton pump spraying back on the R&P. What's more is the gearing is roughly the following: 1st gear = 60 mph, 2nd gear=90mph, 3rd=130mph+, and 4th=190mph plus (assuming my Sheridan body work is as slippery as I think it is. The 930 Box will cost me around $6,000 (I found a cheap good core for $500). Most cores cost $1500-2,000. So, the moral of the story is simply...."If you are running 400 HP or more and don't want to shred your gearbox every other weekend, you'll spend between $6,000-8,000 for a proper gearbox with usable gear ratios." If you've had better luck with the 915 than I have...I'm happy for you and wish you continued good luck. Perhaps I'm a bit hard on my car at times? I just want reliability and although I'm not rich...I'm willing to spend a bit of $ in the gearbox department. As far as Audi, Subaru, Renault, etc. I think their gear boxes can be made very reliable for motors putting out 300-350HP...any more power and you are entering the "expensive broken gearbox zone". Just my two cents...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 17 2006, 09:47 PM
At this point I am considering once again a sub conversion. I have a local dealer that comes across sub engines and trannies ona regular basis. He is not a fan of the EJ25 due to head gasket problems but likes the 2.2 and says a turboed 2.2 could give plenty of HP. I think even 135 Hp of naturally aspirated 2.2 HP would move a 914 pretty nice versus the 90 give or take HP I have now. Engine $350 and tranny $450 or so. Anyway I am watching this thread as a sub conversion is light, radiator in engine bay and cheap - SBC V8 new crate motor $1300, KEP stuff $1000, radiator set up in front $500 or so. My two sense : )
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 18 2006, 06:49 AM
Guys, reading this thread has me a bit confused. Is a 5spd AWD tranny with the aussy parts the only option? I saw a mention in one post of using a sub fwd tranny but am not sure if the poster meant 5spd FWD or auto FWD or if either should work in addition to converting an 5spd AWD tranny. I have a local sub expert : ) who says the older EJ25 have some problems, he is a proponent of the EJ22 2.2 and suggests a turboed 2.2 for more power than stock of 135HP and better reliability over a EJ25. Just wanted to mention that. It is nice to know a sub 2.2 motor and sub tranny would cost less than $1000. Jim
Posted by: nsyr Jan 18 2006, 07:29 AM
There are 2wd trannys. They can be found in the older legacy's and impreza's. I have one of these which is what I will be using. the awd (all wheel drive) are more than likely built stronger to deal with the added stress of driving four wheels.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 18 2006, 06:22 PM
So the prevailing thought is that both auto and 5spd FWD trannys would install as well as a modified AWD tranny would. The benefit of the AWD tranny is that since 1993 or so all subs had AWD and there is much more aftermarket parts available for them as well.
Man - I am pumped by this essentially new revelation. Scott Thatcher mentioned to me in the past that he thougth a sub auto tranny could be used but you guys finding the aussy company that makes the bits to convert an AWD tranny are really on to something.
Being a Bolt On world - I would welcome a it that included most everything - except engine and AWD tranny - to install this stuff into a 914 such as brackets, cables, custom cv flanges maybe mated to vw bus or other axles, motor mount, tranny mount, etc.
Did I say that I am digging this thread. It willlead to the lowest cost conversion possible. Even a mild EJ22 2.2 135 HP conversion would be well worth the under $1000 cost : )
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 19 2006, 06:12 AM
My question to Saker and their response ...
note: my daily driver is a 1993 subaru impreza 1.8 with FWD - the aspect of subaru putting AWD in all cars since then had not really been absorbed by my brain : ) Oh yeah I still wear bell bottoms and have long side burns - get I better get with the times : )
--------------------------
Some are asking on the above thread - why not just use a subaru FWD tranny instead of a converted AWD? Is there a reason you don't use a 5spd fwd tranny?
Are the AWD trannys stronger? Do you have numbers regarding the horse power capabilities of a 5spd AWD tranny versus the 5spd FWD tranny. I am actually considering an FWD Auto tranny if it can be installed in a 914 with less effort than a FWD 5spd.
Thank you,
Jim
-------------------------------
Hi Jim,
The main reason we use the AWD boxes is availability... they usually come on
the engines we use (WRX, Liberty GT). And I don't know of any Subarus that
have been sold in Australia as FWD, certainly not in the last 15-20 years! We
also use them because they are pretty straight forward to convert to FWD and
parts are readily available. There is also a whole range of upgrade parts
available from billet first & second gears right through to full billet dog
gearsets.
I'm no expert, so I can't really give you a comparison between AWD/FWD boxes,
or power ratings etc. We've got a car over here, around 750kg, running a
version 7 WRX STi (2.0L turbo) and a standard 5 speed WRX box converted to a
transaxle. It's been on the dyno and is doing about 215kW at the rear wheels,
if that's any indication. It's a race car and gets driven hard, and the box is
holding up fine. I'm pretty sure there are WRX guys out there running bigger
power than that through these boxes too.
Again, from the bit that I do know, when they have dramas with the boxes, it's
with 1st and 2nd gears, usually resulting from heavy launches. The WRX's all
wheel drive grip doesn't help matters in this regard, whereas our theory was
that in a 2WD installation such as the Saker (and maybe 914?) you'd break
traction before you gave the box too much grief. There's quite a few Sakers
running around with anywhere from 160kW to 200+kW and I don't know of any
major problems.
I hope this answers your questions...
Kind Regards,
Brett Longhurst,
Saker Cars Australia.
www.sakercars.com.au
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 19 2006, 06:17 AM
As for axles/cv (a/c) joints - it appears the sub axles/cv joints are attached to the car via a splined and roll pinned connection - so either the sub a/c can be used with a mod at the outter end - or the 914 a/c could be used with a mod at the tranny end.
A local 914er I recently met uses vw bus a/c on his 914 as the are stronger than 914 a/c and shorter thus allowing him and extra 2 inches or so for his adaptor mating plates from the 914 flanges to the vw bus flanges.
No question in my - very non mechanical mind - some cnc parts will be needed.
Jim
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 19 2006, 12:02 PM
I ran the concept across my buddy and suggested I contact raxles about some custom axles.So I did. I just sent them this email.
http://www.raxles.com/
--
A bunch of us Porsche 914 owners are about to start installing subaru engines ( EJ22 and EJ25 mostly) along with Subaru Trannys into our Porsche 914s. We are gonna need axles/cvs that can connect to the wheel flange of the 914 but to the tranny stub axle on the Subaru tranny. Some of us will be using 5spd and auto fwd trannys and some of us will be using awd trannys converted. I am hoping that regardless of the tranny or engine used - the axle/cv combo needed would be the same and not too costly. A friend of mine put my on to you guys - highly recommended - hope you can help! Jim Kelly
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 19 2006, 07:45 PM
| QUOTE (srbliss @ Jan 3 2006, 09:51 AM) | ||
The outputs are slightly different. I know that the Suby outputs are closer to the bellhousing flange (I think by about 1-1/2") and I "think" they are a little bit higher up on the case. I will try to measure things this evening. |
Some measuring with a tape measure (and some help from here) shows that the Subaru trans outputs are 1-1/2" closer to the engine and 7/8" higher on the trans case.
I think the KEP plate is 5/8 or 3/4" thick - if the all Suby combination is mounted so the CV's are in the stock location the engine will end up at least 2" rearward and 7/8" higher (or the car can be 7/8" lower with the same CV angle and less ground clearance.) The Suby AWD trans is 2" longer than a 901 so if it is mounted 1-1/2" forward there will be about the same amount of room behind the trans for a muffler.
Posted by: fiid Jan 19 2006, 07:47 PM
Moving the engine forward would be a good thing - it's really two close to the rear of the engine bay bolted to a 901 with the rear pickup points in the stock location.
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 20 2006, 12:44 AM
| QUOTE (fiid @ Jan 19 2006, 05:47 PM) |
| Moving the engine forward would be a good thing - it's really two close to the rear of the engine bay bolted to a 901 with the rear pickup points in the stock location. |
The engine is going to moved the rear (if it fits - 2.5 NA engine.)
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 20 2006, 06:51 AM
srbliss - please take lots of photos and add them to your blog : )
There are many sub engine in 914 threads - of course most have KEP adaptor stuff in them with 901 trannys but there are several versions of engine bars, radiator placement and I am curious to see what you come up with.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=32995&st=80
(see page 6)
Thanks,
Jim
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 20 2006, 08:38 AM
Just got another good tip I just received is is to try http://www.precisionalloy.com/
and ask them if they can make a set of flanges that mate to the sub tranny output stubs to allow the use of the 914 axles/cvs unmodified.
I'll email them.
Jim
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 20 2006, 12:22 PM
This is the response I got ... and my reply ...
-----------------------------------------------
I do quite a bit of this type of machining. I usually convert bus or Vanagon
flanges to Porsche 930 and have done 914 to 930 CV's as well. I have never
looked at Subaru. What is the configuration of the Subaru flange. Do they
bolt on,clip on from the inside or clip on like VW? Is the CV diameter about
the same as Vanagon?
Todd Francis, Precision Alloy LTD.
http://www.precisionalloy.com
------------------------------------------------
Todd,
While my daily driver is a 1993 subaru impreza 1.8 auto, and my fun car is a 1972 Porsche 914, I do not yet have my conversion motor and tranny bought yet. I did though just buy a haynes manula for my impreza and the image in there for the stub axle appears to show it as a short splined axle stub that the cv slides onto/over and there is a roll pin that holds it in place. What I do not know yet is if the stock 914 axle/cv is too long to accomodate any custom flange on the tranny side. If it is too long maybe the solution would be to use a vw bus axle/cv combo with custom flanges on both sides. I will put those currently facing these challenges in touch with you so that they can give you better info such as actual dims/etc. Another friend suggested I contact http://www.raxles.com/ - it looks like they make complete custom axles/cv for about $340 but I was hoping to do something less expensive?
Thank you,
Jim
Posted by: Mueller Jan 20 2006, 12:31 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 20 2006, 11:22 AM) |
| - it looks like they make complete custom axles/cv for about $340 but I was hoping to do something less expensive? Thank you, Jim |
I'm sorry, but for brand new custom stuff, you are going to have to pay....that is an excellent price and I doubt very much you'll find anything cheaper......
as for the adapters, figure about $30 to $50 each (min. and depends on quantity).......Steve should be able to make his own now that he has the Bridgeport and he is free to come up to my house and use my lathe if he needs to.
Posted by: Marty Yeoman Jan 20 2006, 12:55 PM
Steve,
Have uou thought about adding a manual Wildwood parking brake while you're at it.
Having a parking brake at the transmission flange can free up a lot of posibilities out at the wheel.
Marty
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 20 2006, 01:38 PM
raxles has not replied to my email yet but they have a list of civic customs axles/cvx for $340 a pair. If they would do a custom axle/cv for 914/sub engine/tranny conversions - I suppose this would be about the same total price as buying bus axles/cvx and having custom adaptors made? Jim
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 20 2006, 02:58 PM
I just got off the phone with Marty at raxles.com. He is confident they could make what we need are far as complete axle/cv assys. he mentioned that price would improve as more people are lined up to buy.
The key to this would be a motor and tranny mount that we could all use - one that can be replicated preferrably by the same person at a reasonable cost.
Anyway - I have high jacked this thread enough.
I'll back off for a while as I must be annoying more than a few : )
Have a great weekend,
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 20 2006, 03:02 PM
| QUOTE (Marty Yeoman @ Jan 20 2006, 10:55 AM) |
| Steve, Have uou thought about adding a manual Wildwood parking brake while you're at it. Having a parking brake at the transmission flange can free up a lot of posibilities out at the wheel. Marty |
Now that's interesting. I just looked at my transmission and there is a nice stout mounting boss in about the right place for a caliper bracket on the right side of the trans. Add an aluminum rotor to the backside of the CV flange and you would have a nice light parking brake.
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 20 2006, 03:07 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 20 2006, 10:31 AM) | ||
I'm sorry, but for brand new custom stuff, you are going to have to pay....that is an excellent price and I doubt very much you'll find anything cheaper...... as for the adapters, figure about $30 to $50 each (min. and depends on quantity).......Steve should be able to make his own now that he has the Bridgeport and he is free to come up to my house and use my lathe if he needs to. |
True $340 would be a bargain for a set of strong custom axles. I am still hoping that what I read was true - Suby and vw use the same splines.
The mill is not ready to make chips yet. I am still waiting on pricing for the servo drives. Would machining with my infant son in one of those baby bjorn things make me a bad parent? I know that welding would not be to good.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 21 2006, 01:45 PM
Steve,
I am not sure - but I guess it could possible be a bad idea to bring an infant into an area with sharp tools that spin at high speeds and toss out fragments of sharp bits of steel. Maybe we need to consult a MOM : )
When will you confirm or disprove that vw splines are the same a subaru splines?
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 21 2006, 02:15 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 21 2006, 11:45 AM) |
| Steve, I am not sure - but I guess it could possible be a bad idea to bring an infant into an area with sharp tools that spin at high speeds and toss out fragments of sharp bits of steel. Maybe we need to consult a MOM : ) When will you confirm or disprove that vw splines are the same a subaru splines? Jim |
The little guy will have a face shield - safety 1st you know.
I hope to know about the flanges next week when I get my good axles, I have a VW bus axle to compare to.
I was able to measure the "width" of the CV outputs today. The Suby is 8-1/4" CV output to output (flanges are not in the transmission) the 901 is about 7-1/2" measured the same way. I still think the stock 914 axle can be used because the Suby looks like it mounts the CV closer to the trans than the 901 does.
Posted by: nsyr Jan 21 2006, 02:46 PM
I've been doing a test fit of suby engine and tranny in the teener today and it seems the 914 axles are to long. The axles hit the output shaft of the tranny. Now I need to know if the suby shafts are shorter but I don't have any. Any thoughts?
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 21 2006, 03:31 PM
Steve and Andrew,
This thread rocks!
While I would like to save the cost of replacement axles/cvs it seems to me like this is one of the biggest challenges. raxles.com said that a promise to buy 10 pairs of custom axles/cvs would be enough to get the price reasonable. While Marty did not put an exact figure on "reasonable" I take it to be about what they sell honda versions for $340 or so.
To me the most important issue is having a standard design that can be replicated preferrably by the same person for the engine and tranny mount so that the custom axles/cvs - if we need raxles.com to make them - could be the same used by other 914club members provided they use the above mentioned engine/tranny mount.
I hope the engine/tranny mount could be the same for all subaru engines, turbo and non turbo and I also assume that most of us would be using the same 5spd awd tranny?
I am planning on a naturally aspired EJ22 mated to a 5spd awd tranny for mine.
60% more power than a stock 2.0L is enough for me.
Jim
Posted by: nsyr Jan 21 2006, 03:53 PM
Hey Pete, any info on the axles you are using?
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 22 2006, 11:02 AM
I got the instructions for the AWD->FWD conversion today. Simple, simple.
Attached File(s)
Subaru_5sp_transaxle_conversion.pdf ( 165.6k )
Number of downloads: 728
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 22 2006, 11:59 AM
Do you have a definition of "late model" .
Some have written that the very latest models trannies have more bolts to mate the subaru motor than slightly older ones do and maybe tall the 6spd have hydraulic clutches.
Any clarification would be welcome.
Thanks,
Jim
Posted by: fiid Jan 22 2006, 01:09 PM
I'm just guessing here - but I think they probably mean anything after like 93-94 when the imprezza was introduced and the legacy lost it's boxy 80's look.
repeat: wild ass guess - don't know for certain.
They did say explicitly IIRC that the 6 speed trannys are different.
This is super cool - I'll be going this way when my 901 breaks....
Posted by: nsyr Jan 22 2006, 01:23 PM
I'm still trying to figure out the axle solution. I went to the junk yard today and got an axle from a suby. The output shaft is too small for the 914 hub.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 22 2006, 02:43 PM
one good step - forward.
This image and my comments may be more confusing than helpful but I will submit it anyway : )
Jim
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: nsyr Jan 22 2006, 03:35 PM
the subaru axle diameter is the same as the inner race of the 914 cv, however it has coarse splines (25 teeth). If the bus axles had 25 teeth then we would need only 2 adapters instead of 4. You would have the bus axle with the suby cv/tranny flange on one end and the bus cv and adapter on the other. Of course I don't know any details of bus axles.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 22 2006, 04:00 PM
see this thread - it does not answer our questions but has some good info that may be usefull ??
Jim
http://www.pelicanbbs.com/posts/85756.htm
Posted by: stock93 Jan 22 2006, 04:11 PM
Bus axle spline count is 33. 930 is 28 spline. Sway a way makes custom length axles in the 33 and 28 spline. You could use type 2/4 cv joints or 930s with a modified stubaxle and trans cv flange. IIRC the axles are around $250 for custom length. Depending on what you need it may not be a custom length. Bus axles from 69-79 are 18 3/4 in long. 924/thing axles are 16 1/8. Bug axles are 16 5/16. The shorter of the two vanagon axles for an 80-83 auto might work. I think they are around 19.5 IIRC.
John
Posted by: nsyr Jan 22 2006, 07:04 PM
since the subaru drive shaft is longer can it be cut and machined to except a 914 cv on the outer end?
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 22 2006, 08:16 PM
Looking back on all the thought being giving to the axles/cvs - my current thought is for one of us to get the engine and tranny installed in a 914 wit the sub tranny outputs properly oriented/horizontal with the 914 hubs. Once installed it is final position we can thenget exact dims needed.
As ar as cutting the sub axles and resplining them I assume enough metal needs to be remaining on the axles after they have been cut and the diameter has to be at least enough as well.
The question I have is will the motor mount that either scott thacher or tonyakavw are using work for us? They are both using 901 trannys and the kep conversion parts they are using put an additional dimension between their 901 tranny and their sub engine. I do not know exactly how much space they have between their engine's and their rear firewall. But deciding - for lack of a better word - on a motor mount possibly should be first priority.
Also note that Scott rotated the intake manifold on his engine so tat the throttle body can fit under in the engine bay without cutting, he removed his egr, and tony decided to cut down his oil pan to reduce the chances of bottoming out on it. besides needed to relocate the alternator - I do not know how many other things we need to consider that may effect the style of the engine mount or tranny mount for that matter.
Jim
![popcorn[1].gif](http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: nsyr Jan 22 2006, 08:50 PM
I have my suby engine and trans in the car on stands (no mounts yet). Even with an adapter the 914 driveshafts seem to be too long. They hit the output flanges of the transmission.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 22 2006, 09:34 PM
I have no doubt you are correct that the 914 axles/cvs are too long - if one takes tis as fact the option probably are many - but two are - bus axles/cvx with custom adaptors on either end - or totally custom axles/cvs from maybe one of the two shops so far listed in this thread for I hope not more than $350 a set?
The option is of course to go with the 901 tranny and KEP adaptors thus not having the axles/cv problem/cost and not having to buy the aussy parts for a sub awd tranny but I think I know what we prefer
So you have your engine in the engine bay with the sub tranny mounted to it and the output shafts are in the proper location that when when the car is on its opwn weight the axles with be horizontal and even with the sub output flanges - if so how much room is there left between the engine and the rear engine bay - and have you rotated your intake manifold ??
Jim
Posted by: nsyr Jan 22 2006, 09:53 PM
I don't have a final position for the engine/trans yet. I have a turbo so clearance is an issue. If it wasn't for the turbo I could have the axles square with the hubs. i may have to cut for the turbo, but i will worry about it when i get to it. Once I have the cv/driveshaft situation taken care of then I will have a better idea of engine position.
This is just a random pic of underneath.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 01:17 AM
Hmm, something different is going on here. I don't have the little stubs at the CV outputs my trans uses a one piece cv/stub that just plugs into the trans like a honda. I'm sure the splines are the same because the aftermarket diffs fit the turbo and na transmissions. You may have more room with the NA one piece cv/stubs.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 23 2006, 01:21 AM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 22 2006, 08:34 PM) |
| The option is of course to go with the 901 tranny and KEP adaptors thus not having the axles/cv problem/cost and not having to buy the aussy parts for a sub awd tranny but I think I know what we prefer |
$600 or so for the KEP stuff.....the axles look pretty cheap to me
besides, you are getting a more modern and not as used/abused transmission using the Subaru transmission....I wouldn't even consider using the 901 if I had a choice...
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 01:24 AM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 22 2006, 06:16 PM) |
| Looking back on all the thought being giving to the axles/cvs - my current thought is for one of us to get the engine and tranny installed in a 914 wit the sub tranny outputs properly oriented/horizontal with the 914 hubs. Once installed it is final position we can thenget exact dims needed. As ar as cutting the sub axles and resplining them I assume enough metal needs to be remaining on the axles after they have been cut and the diameter has to be at least enough as well. The question I have is will the motor mount that either scott thacher or tonyakavw are using work for us? They are both using 901 trannys and the kep conversion parts they are using put an additional dimension between their 901 tranny and their sub engine. I do not know exactly how much space they have between their engine's and their rear firewall. But deciding - for lack of a better word - on a motor mount possibly should be first priority. Also note that Scott rotated the intake manifold on his engine so tat the throttle body can fit under in the engine bay without cutting, he removed his egr, and tony decided to cut down his oil pan to reduce the chances of bottoming out on it. besides needed to relocate the alternator - I do not know how many other things we need to consider that may effect the style of the engine mount or tranny mount for that matter. Jim |
I hope to start on mine sometime soon - having a new baby and trying to start a new career (and a home bussiness all at once) is slowing me down a bit.
My idea for a mount is different from Scotts of Fiids because I am doing a differnt task mounting both the engine and trans using the original 914 mounting points (just for fun I plan on having the radiator mounted on the same subframe to make a one piece powertrain unit that can by easily removed.)
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 23 2006, 06:26 AM
Steve,
I was told that if you pull hard enough - not a god thing to do - the stud output splined axle will come out of the sub tranny.
One piece unit - hum - we are all looking forward to that.
The more I think about it the more the concept of standard style/length axles/cvs is not reasonable if each of us are using a different engine/tanny mount system thus different axle.cv requriements possibly.
I just read an email from Todd at http://www.precisionalloy.com and he is asking for a bus axle/cv, a sub output stub flange, and a 914 wheel hub flange from anyone who may be interested in a quote for custom adaptors for a bus axle/cv assy.
Jim
--
Todd,
Right now we are trying to get one of the guys to actually get the engine and tranny solidly mounted in a 914. Once this is done we will know exactly what dimensions we will need and if bus axles/cvs - in our opinion - will leave enough room for adaptors. If so we will likely contact you then - send you a bus axle/cv, a sub output stub flange, and a 914 wheel hub flange. If you can get the price lower if we order multiple sets - that would help. $200 for adaptors and then another $125 for bus axles/cvs is $325. I am not 100% certain but it is possible we can find a vendor who can make complete custom axles/cvs for about $350. My guess is that for the $25 difference - most would choose the complete custom axles/cvs - but there may be reasons that I have not yet thought of - or have been discussed -that favor adaptor besides total price??
Thank you,
Jim
--
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Francis [mailto:tbf@pacifier.com]
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:05 PM
To: KELLY, Jim J.
Subject: Re: custom flanges ...
Well, I really don't know how adapting the subie flanges will go.
Configuration, type of steel, way of holding it for machining, etc. If you
get one and want to send it to me I will make a determination of how much it
will cost. I generally charge $50 each for the flange work and the same for
the stub axles. I may have stubs in stock, I'm not sure. If I do they may
be made to 930 CV's. Can you flop the ring gear in a subie or do they work
in the right direction stock? I have never thought about them.
Todd Francis
Precision Alloy LTD.
http://www.precisionalloy.com
Posted by: nsyr Jan 23 2006, 07:44 AM
| QUOTE (srbliss @ Jan 23 2006, 02:17 AM) |
| Hmm, something different is going on here. I don't have the little stubs at the CV outputs my trans uses a one piece cv/stub that just plugs into the trans like a honda. I'm sure the splines are the same because the aftermarket diffs fit the turbo and na transmissions. You may have more room with the NA one piece cv/stubs. |
The stubs are just that; they go into the spider gears and are held in by c-clips. I have an awd auto that i will pull the diff out of and check it out.
srbliss - do you have any pics?
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 23 2006, 08:00 AM
Andrew,
Are you gonna use and awd automatic?
I contacted saker and they did not think their awd conversion stucff would work on an auto awd.
Jim
Posted by: GS Guy Jan 23 2006, 08:03 AM
Hey guys, wanted to add my 2 cents as I'm interested in hearing how this conversion works out. Though I'm building a custom mid-engine vehicle, I'm also using a turbo Subaru engine and was planning to use the 914 trans. I have a typical $200 used trans, all cleaned up but untouched inside - mostly used for mock-up to this point. You know the drill, once I open it up to re-seal I'll likely have many hundreds of $$ worth of parts really needing replacement. Add to that the KEP 9" flywheel and adapter kit, plus matching clutch (another $900) it adds up fast. I'm on the waiting list for a KEP kit right now, and considering calling them up and cancelling if the Suby trans idea works out. I had Todd at precision Alloy do me up a set of custom 914 output stubs that take T2 CVs for this conversion, and no doubt he could do something similar for the Suby trans.
IMHO, the way to do the conversion would be to have a pair of custom output flanges made up for the Subaru trans. These would be a whole lot like the standard T1/T2 IRS output flanges - a Subaru matching splined hub with T1/914 (or T2 in my case) CV matching flange, with a dowel pin hole to attach onto the Subaru output stub. Then use a the original 914 CVs and a set of aftermarket axles. Check the axle sizes available at TRE/SAW:
http://www.taylor-race.com/index.HTM
http://www.swayaway.com/VW%20frameset.htm
It seems to me if you only have to purchase off the shelf axles and custom output flanges - that seems like a less expensive way to go than a full set of custom axles and CVs? FWIW I priced a set of custom 33(T2)/28(930) spline axles from SAW (ie: nothing too special!), they quoted ~ $600/pr, just for the bare axles!
The "estimated" price from Raxles seems to be too good to be true - especially considering the somewhat limited market potential?
Back into lurk mode - but will be following this development closely.
Jeff
Posted by: nsyr Jan 23 2006, 08:08 AM
if the output stubs were not there and if the 914 output flanges would fit into the suby tranny then the 914 axles would be a perfect fit. the only reason i said they are too long is that they hit the output stubs. take away the stubs, add 914 flanges and it's good to go.
then there would be no need for custom axles or cv's
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 23 2006, 08:19 AM
As I understand it the stubs are removeable. How much room the there between the 914 axle flange and the tranny? Maybe all we need is a custom output stub that has a flange?
How far does the output stub protrude from the sub tranny?
Jim
Posted by: nsyr Jan 23 2006, 08:33 AM
the width of the tranny at the output is the same as the 914 tranny. the stub only comes out about an inch.
the 914 flange idea would be perfect if it can be made to work. i think i'll pull a suby diff and the 914 diff today and compare the two. maybe the spider gears can be changed. i doubt it, but i am just thinking out loud.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 23 2006, 09:04 AM
here is a rough drawing of a custom output stub with flange
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nsyr Jan 23 2006, 11:39 AM
914 output flange
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 12:38 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 23 2006, 06:19 AM) |
| As I understand it the stubs are removeable. How much room the there between the 914 axle flange and the tranny? Maybe all we need is a custom output stub that has a flange? How far does the output stub protrude from the sub tranny? Jim |
My trans isn't missing the stubs - the whole thing is one piece. Stub-CV-Axle all of this is one piece. I have seen the stubs for sale with an aftermaret diff do I don't think it really matters how the solution is made it should still fit all of the transmissions.
Posted by: grossgary Jan 23 2006, 01:46 PM
i've spoken to jim some about this conversion. i know NOTHING about porsche, i know subaru's only so none of this may be useful. he mentioned some axle issues on the conversion. the best starting point might be to call MWE Axles in Colorado:
(303) 522-8070
they are subaru axle specialists and have done custom axles for off roading and subaru to subaru conversions that require some machining and swapping of DOJ's and such. i can't imagine they wouldn't want to help you out.
they are a great company and do excellent axle work, highly regarded among the subaru community.
not sure about subaru transmission without stub axles, never seen one like that. every subaru transmission i've seen has splined output shafts for the front axles. impreza, legacy, all older generation and even the wrx trans output shafts are stubs that are held in place by a clip. they pull out and pop back in. they have a clip at the base that stays with the stub when you yank it from the trans (not sure why you'd ever want to do that though!). if you yank on the cv axle hard enough without knocking the pin retaining the axle to the trans stub, the stub will pull out of the transmission.
(shameless plug) i have two impreza's (97 and 98) that i'll be selling whole or parting out. i bought them wrecked to use for body parts (fixing hail damage on mine), don't need the drive train if anyone is interested in the entire car - engine, trans wiring, engine mounts, trans mount, shifter, etc for a conversion. one may be spoken for in entirety and the other i may fix. email if interested.
good luck and have fun,
gary
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 23 2006, 01:54 PM
Gary,
Thanks for your comments.
Your wealth of subaru knowledge is greatly appreicated.
Jim
Posted by: nsyr Jan 23 2006, 03:22 PM
another idea: drill out a hole in the this flange and hammer in and weld the suby output stub on it. do you think it could handle the stress? 
Posted by: nsyr Jan 23 2006, 03:23 PM
forgot pic
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Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 03:23 PM
A little bit off topic but still relevant as Jim asked about shortened oil pans.
http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/new_page_2.htm
I also know some people in Germany that could get the Bug5speed aluminum
pan shipped. Heck I might be in Germany in a little while.http://www.bugat5speed.de/cms/content/view/30/53/
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 03:26 PM
I think I know what was going on with my lack of stubs in my trans. The flunky that removed the axles just yanked them out with the stubs still attached and the axles I got were so rusty that I did'nt notice the stubs were a separtate part.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 23 2006, 04:01 PM
Cool - we all have output stubs
nysr - nice to see a pic of an actual output stub removed
With output stub removed - how much space is there between sub tranny and end of 914 axle/cv ?? Sounds like you think there is enough room for a solution here.
Please check both sides are equal 
Jim
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 23 2006, 04:08 PM
| QUOTE (srbliss @ Jan 23 2006, 01:23 PM) |
| A little bit off topic but still relevant as Jim asked about shortened oil pans. http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/new_page_2.htm I also know some people in Germany that could get the Bug5speed aluminum pan shipped. Heck I might be in Germany in a little while.http://www.bugat5speed.de/cms/content/view/30/53/ |
Shortened pans - looks like it is requred to be done - so either we do it ourselves, have it done locally - or buy from sharpbuilt or from other aussy dudes? How much does sharpbuilt want for their shortened oil pan and sump pump? It is nice because it holds full amount of oil!! Jim
I'll email them.
Posted by: d914 Jan 23 2006, 04:17 PM
outback with shorten pick up and an fitting for turbo $250 ish
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Posted by: TonyAKAVW Jan 23 2006, 04:23 PM
The outback pan is nice, and they say that they can do knock-outs to expand the capacity. I'm doing my own expansion and taking it to a shop to have it welded. I'll post pictures in my progress thread once I get some more done on it.
-Tony
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 05:19 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 23 2006, 02:08 PM) | ||
Shortened pans - looks like it is requred to be done - so either we do it ourselves, have it done locally - or buy from sharpbuilt or from other aussy dudes? How much does sharpbuilt want for their shortened oil pan and sump pump? It is nice because it holds full amount of oil!! Jim I'll email them. |
I send them an email asking if he's willing to sell just the parts he adds to the oil pan. I wouldn't mind doing the work (cutting and welding) for a modest fee if he's willing to sell the parts. If not I might work up sometype of a kit to do it.
Posted by: nsyr Jan 23 2006, 05:23 PM
You don't need parts. all you need is sheet metal for the bottom, about 14-16 gauge. cut off the part of the pan you don't want and weld on the sheet metal. as far as the pickup: cut off a section in the middle and braze the two halfs together. It's pretty easy.
Posted by: d914 Jan 23 2006, 05:30 PM
for you o god of Fabrication, some of us are better at bolting togeather
Posted by: Marty Yeoman Jan 23 2006, 06:12 PM
Why not "dry sump" it?
Posted by: Mueller Jan 23 2006, 06:14 PM
| QUOTE (Marty Yeoman @ Jan 23 2006, 05:12 PM) |
| Why not "dry sump" it? |
I "think" the idea is to do a Subaru conversion "on the cheap"
prices are continuing to go up on these projects
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 23 2006, 09:15 PM
Reply from Sharpbuilt ... whose oil pan is widen to hold full quantity of oil!!!
Hi Jim
> What is the cost for your SUPA SUMP oil pan and sump pump?
Supa Sumps are $320 US exchange and $30 to shorten the oil pickup (total $350)
> Do you have a discount for multiple orders?
On 3- 5% on 5-10%
> Is the same pan used on ej22 and ej25 normally aspirated engines?
Yes the same
Regards Mike Sharp
http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au
--
The option is http://www.outbackmotors.com/oil_pan.htm
Who charge $250 and they even advertise they sell the kit if you want to cut and weld yourself. quote "Kit's for this area available too if you want to do the work of chopping and welding yourself."
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 09:31 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 23 2006, 07:15 PM) |
| Reply from Sharpbuilt ... whose oil pan is widen to hold full quantity of oil!!! Hi Jim > What is the cost for your SUPA SUMP oil pan and sump pump? Supa Sumps are $320 US exchange and $30 to shorten the oil pickup (total $350) > Do you have a discount for multiple orders? On 3- 5% on 5-10% > Is the same pan used on ej22 and ej25 normally aspirated engines? Yes the same Regards Mike Sharp http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au -- The option is http://www.outbackmotors.com/oil_pan.htm Who charge $250 and they even advertise they sell the kit if you want to cut and weld yourself. quote "Kit's for this area available too if you want to do the work of chopping and welding yourself." Jim |
Hi Steve
Yes I can supply
$85 US each
Shipping gets a lot cheaper the more in the box
Regards Mike Sharp
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 09:34 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 23 2006, 04:14 PM) | ||
I "think" the idea is to do a Subaru conversion "on the cheap" prices are continuing to go up on these projects |
I want to do this conversion nicely at a fair price. Oem quality - not cobbled together and not polished billet, just well designed.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2006, 09:36 PM
Back to axles - the oil pan is easy. I'm suprised no one has mentioned the speedo drive.
Posted by: jkeyzer Jan 23 2006, 09:43 PM
| QUOTE (srbliss @ Jan 23 2006, 07:34 PM) |
| I want to do this conversion nicely at a fair price. Oem quality - not cobbled together and not polished billet, just well designed. Steve |
I think more people should share your way of thinking. "OEM-like" is what I shoot for also.
Posted by: Twystd1 Jan 24 2006, 12:34 AM
You guys might want to look at what Lance Nist has for sale as far as oil pans and very well thought out Hi-Perf parts from Pantera Specialists.
He is a very good Suby R&D guy as well as all around performance junky. For 30 years that I know of.
Guy and has more knowledge about after market FI than ANYONE I have ever met.
He also has a 700 HP turbo Suby sitting on his dyno as I write this.
Now thats a dream sequence in itself.........................
He also has a complete aftermarket EFI with Ignition that may be of some interest to us Type 4 guys.
If ya look at about 2 pictures down on this page (BELOW URL)
http://www.lola332.com/subaruparts.htm
You will see a cast aluminum oil pan that is about 4 1/2 inches deep. it also comes with bungs for dry sump or vaccum evacuation of the crank case.
It also helps tie in the block as it is strong enough to be a structural piece of the engine case.
My machinist friend built the molds for it.. very nice piece if you need under the car clearence.
Me thinks I can get most of this stuff for the team at better than retail.. (I think)
The reason I bring Lance up in this conversation.. Is that he is smart.. And ALL of his stuff has been R&Ded on a dyno AND on real street and race cars.
Just more stuff to provoke the imagination of us Teener Junkys....
Regards,http://www.lola332.com/subaruparts.htm
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 24 2006, 01:56 AM
| QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Jan 23 2006, 10:34 PM) |
| You will see a cast aluminum oil pan that is about 4 1/2 inches deep. it also comes with bungs for dry sump or vaccum evacuation of the crank case. It also helps tie in the block as it is strong enough to be a structural piece of the engine case. My machinist friend built the molds for it.. very nice piece if you need under the car clearence. |
Cool stuff.
I think I have seen that pan being sold by someone else. One version had a clear plastic bottom.
Posted by: GS Guy Jan 24 2006, 06:28 AM
I like that pan too. It looks like it'll fit the Small Car engine mount I'm using, which (FYI) brings the engine mounting point out to the timing belt end of the engine, instead of the flywheel end. It uses the original engine mounting points to locate steel mounting bars on either side of the oil pan - but doesn't allow for a wider pan to be used. These might be of interest if you want to use a simple mounting bar at the "front" of the engine (but unfortunately not inexpensive).
I'd like to see what kind of internal baffling that pan uses, the bottom plate, maybe some installed pics? Guess I'll drop a line to Pantera Specialists. Thanks for the link!
And I thought I'd seen every pan available for Subaru conversions - there must be a dozen different varieties!
On the axles - I know Todd @ Precision custom manufactures chromoly flanges to accept T2 and 930 sized CV joints, and sure he could weld a set of these to a pair of Subaru output stubs. Not sure how that would affect the strength though. Probably better to utilize the inner portion of the original Suby CV/splined section, machine it down to a simple "hub" then take the CV flange you want then weld those parts together. That way you don't loose any strength of the original stub.
Jeff
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 24 2006, 07:19 AM
Steve,
I had emailed Mike at sharpbuilt before I saw your post of $85 for the box. He emailed me about the same quote. The question is to we need any templtes from Mike to help us put the cuts exactly right on the oil pan or the sump tube?
If you are willing to do the cutting and welding I could send you a check or paypal you for this work and for the cost of the box and for the cost of return shipping.
Looking forward to your engine/radiator.tranny mount design. Maybe you can make for the group or - make the pre cust pieces available to the grou or the drawings so we can have fabricated locally.
I was thining tonyakavw's engine bar would be fine with me but this would leave building tranny mounts which I'd hope would not be too challenging.
I think a seperate engine mount and a seperate tranny mount would ultimately result is less weight - and block less stuff - than a combo mount??
I am sure the cast pan mentioned above will be more $'s. The website does not list a price.
Thanks guys for everything !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jim
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 24 2006, 07:28 AM
Everyone involved in this thread should read tonyakavw's thread !!
We don't want to reinvent the wheel.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=31579&hl=
Speedo came up - not sure it was resolved?
Faking sensor signals to ecu will also be a challenge and require someone with knowledge in this area.
I guess a local exhaust shop can fab and exhaust but havign the sub exhasut manifolds would probably help.
Jim
Posted by: TonyAKAVW Jan 24 2006, 11:53 AM
For the speedometer I will probably be using the stock speedometer to start with, but what I really want to do is make a motor drive for the stock ECU that is driven by the vehicle speed sensor on the Subaru engine. One advantage is that you could tweak it for whatever size tires you have and not worry about the ratio being off. Another advantage is no big cable to melt on the exhaust, or get in the way during an engine drop, etc.
-Tony
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 24 2006, 12:05 PM
Hey guys - reminder - Tony is using 914 tranny thus he can use 914 speedo initialy but - nice comment about using sub speed sensor : )
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 24 2006, 01:14 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 24 2006, 05:19 AM) |
| Steve, I had emailed Mike at sharpbuilt before I saw your post of $85 for the box. He emailed me about the same quote. The question is to we need any templtes from Mike to help us put the cuts exactly right on the oil pan or the sump tube? If you are willing to do the cutting and welding I could send you a check or paypal you for this work and for the cost of the box and for the cost of return shipping. Looking forward to your engine/radiator.tranny mount design. Maybe you can make for the group or - make the pre cust pieces available to the grou or the drawings so we can have fabricated locally. I was thining tonyakavw's engine bar would be fine with me but this would leave building tranny mounts which I'd hope would not be too challenging. I think a seperate engine mount and a seperate tranny mount would ultimately result is less weight - and block less stuff - than a combo mount?? I am sure the cast pan mentioned above will be more $'s. The website does not list a price. Thanks guys for everything !!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim |
This is from a previous post not much has changed -
I plan on making a Suby kit. I am fairly serious about this - so far I have about $10K in tools and shop stuff to do work like this. I am picking up my engine, transmission and a CNC mill on Friday.
What I plan on making is "minimum parts" type of kit to mount a Suby engine AND transmission along with the mid mounted radiator that Scott T pioneered
(if I make any money at this some of it will be shared with Scott.) The main design goal is to minimize any cutting or drilling on the car. I hope to be able to supply the mounts, the transmission AWD to FWD parts and the shift linkage along with part numbers for hoses, belts, radiator etc and instructions on how to do the swap.Unfortunatly for the project (not for me) I have a new baby (our first) on the way, I hope I can get started this winter but I won't be suprised if being a new dad slows me down - alot. The good thing is my day job is really slow so I can dedicate more time to important things like engine swaps and kids.
The price will be very reasonable as I won't be reselling anything that I don't make or have made specifically for this project.
You might notice no mention of wiring. I am using an SDS system so adapting the stock Suby system is not going to come from me. If someone else wants to do this and offer it to members please do so.
Steve
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 24 2006, 01:31 PM
wow
I think we can sit back a drink a few beers
eat a little popcorn
smoke a few cigarettes 
drink a few more beers
and sit tight while Steve
does some cutting and welding and pounding 
I think our task is simple 
Jim
Posted by: Twystd1 Jan 25 2006, 05:20 AM
OK,
So I went to John Edwards machine shop today and found out he sells the cast pan also.. In fact he designed it.
Well: There is NO internal baffling in the bottom. The reason was typically the engine builder welds in his own design to suit the use of the pan.
I saw two designs for baffling at his shop that would suit road racing / A/X..
The price is down to about 310 - 320 bucks for the pan.
Hell, i could weld in an appropriate baffle in twenty minutes... No Problem..
Obviously cutting a stock pan is a bunch cheaper.. period...
Yet I if had the extra bucks... HHHmmmmmm
He also has a setup that places a dry sump pump IN THE PAN and is driven off the front pulley. This is only a prototype as nobody has asked for it yet..
The guy has some crazy kewl stuff going on in his shop.
John also has a cast finned bottom if ya need one.. for extra bucks.
If I can help anyone here on this stuff.. PM me or mail me... I wil see what i can do.....
Twystd1
Posted by: TonyAKAVW Jan 25 2006, 12:32 PM
Something to consider about increasing the size of the oil pan is that if you flatten it out and go out to the sides, you are moving part of the oil pan closer to the exhaust ports. I don't know really how much of an effect it has but it seems to me that you could end up with some heat from the exhaust tubes warming up the oil. The oil pan modification I'm doing (hopefully done this weekend) will have extensions to the front and back only.
-Tony
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 25 2006, 04:05 PM
Thanks for sharing that Tony - excellent point!
Look forward to some pics : )
Jim
Posted by: jkeyzer Jan 25 2006, 05:07 PM
Tony, that sounds like a great way to get the oil heated up to operating temperature on a cold day!
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 27 2006, 01:10 AM
| QUOTE (GS Guy @ Jan 24 2006, 04:28 AM) |
| On the axles - I know Todd @ Precision custom manufactures chromoly flanges to accept T2 and 930 sized CV joints, and sure he could weld a set of these to a pair of Subaru output stubs. Not sure how that would affect the strength though. Probably better to utilize the inner portion of the original Suby CV/splined section, machine it down to a simple "hub" then take the CV flange you want then weld those parts together. That way you don't loose any strength of the original stub. Jeff |
Like this maybe. Machine off the grey area and weld on the flange. Notice mine is all one piece the stub is not separate on a 2005 RS transaxle. Did I mention the guy that removed these and the previous set is a careless dolt?
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Posted by: Porcharu Jan 27 2006, 11:10 PM
bump!
Posted by: biggy72 Jan 28 2006, 01:01 AM
Just my opinion but wouldn't welding cause the flange to warp some if good penetration is achieved (needed for this type of part)?
I'm the drive train team leader on a formula sae team and we just trashed a set of bearings because on the outboard side of the axle we had a flange adapter that went to the spindle that was welded together. The weld was very even and looked ok, but once taken off and put on a lathe they're far enough off to cause quite a few problems. Since machining a whole flange is out of the question we're going to cut the splined part out, weld a new flange on that is oversized, and then make it true and round on the lathe before drilling out the wholes. Haven't done it yet, but I'm going to start on it tomorrow. I think it will work, but I just thought I should throw in my 2 cents.
Derek Vetter
WSU Formula SAE
http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~sae/
Posted by: racerx7 Jan 28 2006, 04:36 AM
Drool.
That is my 2nd favorite engine.
Looks very nice.
Posted by: MecGen Jan 28 2006, 05:42 AM
Hey
For the speedo/VSS, its not that hard but a lot of research and testing, like you don't need more.
For the 901 a VSS would have to be fitted, for OBD2 cars the VSS has become an input that the ECM uses for some realy important fine tuning. The VSS (from wherever you get it) would have to be the same type and signal strength, 1-5 volt square waveform ? You can program (reverse) the ECM to any tire size or gear ratio, but can't change the type of input.
I have flashed many American cars/trucks, but never on a Suby. Lots of people do tho...I would lean to a Porsche/Suby hybrid sensor.
+Karma
Later
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 28 2006, 10:23 AM
| QUOTE (biggy72 @ Jan 27 2006, 11:01 PM) |
| Just my opinion but wouldn't welding cause the flange to warp some if good penetration is achieved (needed for this type of part)? I'm the drive train team leader on a formula sae team and we just trashed a set of bearings because on the outboard side of the axle we had a flange adapter that went to the spindle that was welded together. The weld was very even and looked ok, but once taken off and put on a lathe they're far enough off to cause quite a few problems. Since machining a whole flange is out of the question we're going to cut the splined part out, weld a new flange on that is oversized, and then make it true and round on the lathe before drilling out the wholes. Haven't done it yet, but I'm going to start on it tomorrow. I think it will work, but I just thought I should throw in my 2 cents. Derek Vetter WSU Formula SAE http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~sae/ |
Maching after welding was always planned, I would expect some warping no matter how stout the flange was. I am more concerned with dealing with that hard as tool steel Suby CV. I can cut the sucker off with a cutoff wheel but I don't know how the thing will machine after that. Guess I will be the first to know. I might have to look into getting it EDM'ed.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 28 2006, 02:29 PM
I wonder if the removeable output stub can be used in newer tranny (edit added the word tranny) one piece axles/cvs as steve has?
I so - in order to keep things as standard as possible should we not be bus axles/cvs with a custom flange on the wheel side and a custom sub splined roll pinned flange on the tranny side.
The bus axles being shorter should give more spce for custom flanges - not to mention they are substantilly stronger and would be new - versus using used 914 axles/cvs?
Also looking into the engine bay of my 1993 subaru impreza - it looks like the axles are not prependicular to the tranny by a substantial amount.
Anyone want a pic??
Jim
Posted by: d914 Jan 28 2006, 03:09 PM
uuhhh!! Yes!
Posted by: biggy72 Jan 28 2006, 04:12 PM
if you're going to edm it I'd just get the custom axles because you're looking at quite a bit of money and alot of work to do all of that. I would guess after it's said and done you're looking at more money than the axles, (if they're only 350) and it's alot more work.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 28 2006, 04:33 PM
pic of my axle/cv from my 1993 subaru impreza. Not sure if you can see it but I can tell you it is far from perpendicular. Jim
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Posted by: d914 Jan 28 2006, 11:01 PM
small car has Hall effect sensor that fits on cv..... see below
This hall effect speed sensor fits on the transmission and a cv joint. It has 5 pulses per axle revolution which closely approximates the Subaru pulses per mile. Fits Syncro, 2wd manual and automatic
SSK3
$49.95
Qty
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 01:18 PM
I hit a few minor snags during the first engine fitting. The release arm hits the trunk floor and the AWD extension hits the muffler heat shield. The heat shield can be trimmed to fit or hopefully the FWD casting can be used instead as it is much smaller, I'm looking into ths right now. The release arm issue could be solved with a small amount of cutting and a little sheetmetal box welded in to cover the hole. I am looking at hydaulic release bearings as a solution.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 5 2006, 02:25 PM
I'll be hanging on every word. Would be a shame if the awd tranny could not be easily used. Looking forward to the next episode : )
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 03:48 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 5 2006, 12:25 PM) |
| I'll be hanging on every word. Would be a shame if the awd tranny could not be easily used. Looking forward to the next episode : ) |
It will work, just needs a little help. Here are the pics I forgot to add in my last post. First one is the AWD housing almost hitting the muffler shield - the trans is about an inch too low in this picture.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 03:51 PM
And one of the release are hitting the trunk floor. I'm going to go out and remove the arm right now.
Does anyone have a suggestion on a decent easy to use "paint" program to draw simple shapes and text onto a jpeg. The only thing I have is a cludge of MS word and Photoshop elements.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 05:10 PM
Here is some more with the release are removed and the AWD extension removed.
Almost empty housing.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 05:11 PM
Top view of the whole thing.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 05:12 PM
Un-needed AWD housings.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 05:13 PM
"Stuff" sticking out of the trans. The splines get tied together with a coupler to make the AWD into FWD. The top splines are the pinion shaft the lower are the output of the transmission.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 05:15 PM
In the car. Fits MUCH better now. I hope the FWD housing fits. Otherwise I will cut and weld the AWD housing.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 05:17 PM
Clearance between the top of the bellhousing to the floor. Might be room for a cable release arm.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 5 2006, 05:20 PM
Last one for now. Side view that shows the trans tucked up nice and close to the floor.
My wife and I have been invited to a superbowl party so I have to go 
and waste time (I hate watching sports) and drink beer.
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Posted by: jimkelly Feb 5 2006, 05:30 PM
That is some nice progress. Good job on the bracketing to hold the engine and tranny firmly and level on the jack - I hate seeing so many jack engines that are barely hanging on and can so easily be dropped and broken. Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 6 2006, 12:24 AM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 5 2006, 03:30 PM) |
| That is some nice progress. Good job on the bracketing to hold the engine and tranny firmly and level on the jack - I hate seeing so many jack engines that are barely hanging on and can so easily be dropped and broken. Jim |
Thanks, I figured that I should spend a little time making the engine/trans easy and safe to install and remove because I am fairly sure I will be doing at least 20 times. That's the first time I've used unistrut the way it's supposed to be used. Worked out well for a temporary deal. I hope to have rev 1 of the engine subframe done by the end of the week.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 6 2006, 01:16 AM
that transmission is too clean, hurry up and get it dirty to get it properly prep'd for a 914
unistrut? did you have a source for used or are those new pieces?
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 6 2006, 08:21 AM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 5 2006, 11:16 PM) |
| that transmission is too clean, hurry up and get it dirty to get it properly prep'd for a 914 unistrut? did you have a source for used or are those new pieces? |
Clean! That thing is filthy for something less than a year old - it's a 2005. Both the engine and the trans have a nice smooth finish, pressure cast maybe.
I had the best source of all for the unistrut, work was throwing it away. I should have taken more of it (I have about 100 feet of it left over)
Mike - How are the babies doing?
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 7 2006, 10:25 PM
I've been too busy working and watching the baby to get anything worthwhile done on the car. I have had time to waste surfing for axle components. I found this and I'm waiting for more details on it. I hope this part is available in a 33 spline configuration - that would make the axle issue go away. This part is 30 spline. Anyone know someone in the driveline bussiness?
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 08:41 AM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 7 2006, 08:25 PM) |
| I have had time to waste surfing for axle components. I found this and I'm waiting for more details on it. I hope this part is available in a 33 spline configuration - that would make the axle issue go away. This part is 30 spline. Anyone know someone in the driveline bussiness? |
This thread must be getting boring - I'm qouting myself.
That tripod idea is not going to work in the 914. You need to be able to remove the outer cv joint to be able to use this type of joint, that's not going to happen in the 914. Looks like some type of stub axle needs to be made.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 10:31 AM
This is what we need. One of these with the correct splines for the Subaru stubs and drilled for a 944 CV.
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Posted by: d914 Feb 8 2006, 10:32 AM
one for each side
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 10:33 AM
| QUOTE (d914 @ Feb 8 2006, 08:32 AM) |
| one for each side |
This thread keeps double posting when I add to it.
Posted by: d914 Feb 8 2006, 10:37 AM
keep up the good of work, your a bit ahead me...I'm still strpping and re-doing the car.....suspension pieces almost done and brakes...now off to soda blast..
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 8 2006, 11:02 AM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 08:31 AM) |
| This is what we need. One of these with the correct splines for the Subaru stubs and drilled for a 944 CV. |
You are gonna use 944 axles.cvs?
How much for a set? ( do you have a part number for them)
Is there not enough room for this adaptor when used with 914 axles/cvs?
Have you looked at bus axles/cvs??
Your adaptor has a hole in it for the roll pin?
You're gonna use stubs from an earlier year tranny?
Jim
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 8 2006, 11:15 AM
Before I would make any decisions regarding the suby trans, I would go to www.i-club.com talk with these guys and see what thier opinion of the suby trans. I have a 2.0 WRX engine in my teener... after chatting with the guys on i-club I learned that the suby trans is kinda 
as well. I just had Brad at 914 limited build me a custom 901, cost me around $2,700.
Keith
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 8 2006, 11:21 AM
$2700 for a well built tranny is no small sum.
I will visit the website you mentioned though : )
Do I have to be a member to read the threads?
Can you provide a few noteable thread urls?
I will be getting a sub ej22 with 100K, a sub awd 5spd tranny, harness, ecu, and a bunch of other stuff for $500.
I have no doubt that the sub tranny will handle the 135hp of the ej22 with no problem as sub uses the same tranny for more than twice the hp.
What kind of performance will a $2700 tranny get you. How much hp and torque do you expect it will not fail under?
Jim
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 8 2006, 12:23 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 8 2006, 09:21 AM) |
| $2700 for a well built tranny is no small sum. I will visit the website you mentioned though : ) Do I have to be a member to read the threads? Can you provide a few noteable thread urls? I will be getting a sub ej22 with 100K, a sub awd 5spd tranny, harness, ecu, and a bunch of other stuff for $500. I have no doubt that the sub tranny will handle the 135hp of the ej22 with no problem as sub uses the same tranny for more than twice the hp. What kind of performance will a $2700 tranny get you. How much hp and torque do you expect it will not fail under? Jim |
It is a bit pricey, but I did get a 904 main shaft installed, gated off 1st, and had a 904 "C" gear installed and no core. Dana from Renegade used to be my roomate. His suby teener getts flogged daily, and still runns and shfits very well. Check out his awsome burnout on Renegades web site... Under 914, (scroll down to the doughnut long version). He does not do this often, but he drifts every corner he gets a chance to and zero probs with his BONE STOCK 901.
I don't know if you need to be a member to read the threads, something tells me no though...
Check out the various flat4 club websites... I know we have a flat4lv.com for the locals here in Vegas.
sounds like a great deal on your engine and tranny, I got my 2004 WRX 2.0 with 4,000 mi for $1,500 delivered. Another $500 for the wiring harness (nightmare) and ECU.
As for performance expectations, I do not know the answer to that, I would call Brad at 914 Limited in Peoria for that one.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 8 2006, 12:24 PM
| QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:15 AM) |
| Before I would make any decisions regarding the suby trans, I would go to www.i-club.com talk with these guys and see what thier opinion of the suby trans. I have a 2.0 WRX engine in my teener... after chatting with the guys on i-club I learned that the suby trans is kinda as well. I just had Brad at 914 limited build me a custom 901, cost me around $2,700. Keith |
and most of those that thrash a suby transmission are also trying to dump 300+ hp thru 4 wheels and are most likely very hard on the transmission while shifting......the 914 has less weight and only 2 tires to spin when abused...
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 8 2006, 12:28 PM
True Dat!
Posted by: db9146 Feb 8 2006, 12:28 PM
Anyone looked to see if one of these Suby trans can be mated to a Porsche 3.6? I am exploring ALL possibilities in place of the 901 (built 901, 915, G50, Boxster, 944, etc.).
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 8 2006, 12:29 PM
| QUOTE (db9146 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:28 AM) |
| Anyone looked to see if one of these Suby trans can be mated to a Porsche 3.6? I am exploring ALL possibilities in place of the 901 (built 901, 915, G50, Boxster, 944, etc.). |
I would check with Kennedy engineering to see if they make an adaptor plate for your engine.
Posted by: db9146 Feb 8 2006, 12:31 PM
Thanks...talked with them. They don't make any adapters for Porsche engines, only Porsche trannys.
Posted by: jkeyzer Feb 8 2006, 12:42 PM
Yeah, I REALLY doubt you will have problems with a WRX 5 speed in a 914. It will do fine unless you severely abuse it (same with any transmission). Most of the WRX problems are blown out of proportion anyway.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 8 2006, 12:44 PM
| QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Feb 8 2006, 11:42 AM) |
| Yeah, I REALLY doubt you will have problems with a WRX 5 speed in a 914. It will do fine unless you severely abuse it (same with any transmission). Most of the WRX problems are blown out of proportion anyway. |
yea, I bet the WRX guys use the transmission as an excuse when they get smoked by an EVO
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 8 2006, 12:44 PM
| QUOTE (db9146 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:31 AM) |
| Thanks...talked with them. They don't make any adapters for Porsche engines, only Porsche trannys. |
damnit!
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 12:46 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 8 2006, 10:24 AM) | ||
and most of those that thrash a suby transmission are also trying to dump 300+ hp thru 4 wheels and are most likely very hard on the transmission while shifting......the 914 has less weight and only 2 tires to spin when abused... |
Most of the "broken transmissions"what I have seen on the Suby sites where like Mike said - lots of power combined with abusive driver or more often some fool that power shifts the car all the time and breaks or bends the shift forks.
Most people here don't beat the hell out cars like 18 year old Suby street racers.
The gears on these tranmissions are bigger than a T-5 and those tranmissions hold up pretty well in 5.0 mustangs (at least until you overpower or abuse them).
Posted by: acy76 Feb 8 2006, 01:09 PM
Regarding the question on a good paint program to use, you may want to check out the Gimp -- it's an open-source Photoshop clone (I think it's at gimp.org, but Google will get it for you) that is free and quite powerful. If you're used to Photoshop it's easy to pick up. I use Photoshop professionally and have no problem with the Gimp for home editing.
Keep up the good work - I plan on tackling a similar project sometime soon and am following the thread with interest.
Posted by: bondo Feb 8 2006, 02:00 PM
This is interesting stuff. Has anyone checked into changing the gearing? I know subie transmissions come geared terribly for V8 use, which pretty much rules them out. But if they were afforably re-gearable..
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 8 2006, 02:06 PM
The ONLY reason subaru trannys are being looked at is because they mate to subaru motors without the need for any adapting parts that would typically be need to mate a subaru motor to a 901 tranny.
As far as using a sub tranny on an engine other than a subaru engine - is not what this thread is about although some tid bits of good info may be extrapolated here for THAT purpose : )
Jim
Posted by: bondo Feb 8 2006, 02:13 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 8 2006, 01:06 PM) |
| The ONLY reason subaru trannys are being looked at is because they mate to subaru motors without the need for any adapting parts that would typically be need to mate a subaru motor to a 901 tranny. |
I distinctly remember metions of other advantages in this thread.. Stronger.. better shifting.. parts availability.. etc..
I just figure my 901 won't last behind my V8 and I'm trying to keep my finger on the pulse of innovation. I intend to cableshift my 901 for the sole purpose of making the transition to something else when it breaks that much easier.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 8 2006, 02:22 PM
Bondo - you are correct - there are other reasons - I mis-spoke.
I guess for me the most important factor that drives me to the sub tranny and sub engine combo is the total cost and one important factor in total cost is whether or not the combo needs a bunch of KEP parts or not.
On the other hand - a sub tranny will require a axle/cv solution$350?, some aussy parts $250?, maybe a fwd rear housing $100? - items that will all cost money and maybe offset the savings of not needing $1000 in KEP parts??
Jim
Posted by: Mueller Feb 8 2006, 02:30 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 8 2006, 01:22 PM) |
| Bondo - you are correct - there are other reasons - I mis-spoke. I guess for me the most important factor that drives me to the sub tranny and sub engine combo is the total cost and one important factor in total cost is whether or not the combo needs a bunch of KEP parts or not. On the other hand - a sub tranny will require a axle/cv solution$350?, some aussy parts $250?, maybe a fwd rear housing $100? - items that will all cost money and maybe offset the savings of not needing $1000 in KEP parts?? Jim |
one important item you are missing is that even "if" one has to purchase custom axles and the aussy parts, you are getting a transmission that is only a few years old and not some 30 year old transmission that has led a rough life
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 8 2006, 03:45 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 10:46 AM) | ||||
Most of the "broken transmissions"what I have seen on the Suby sites where like Mike said - lots of power combined with abusive driver or more often some fool that power shifts the car all the time and breaks or bends the shift forks. Most people here don't beat the hell out cars like 18 year old Suby street racers. The gears on these tranmissions are bigger than a T-5 and those tranmissions hold up pretty well in 5.0 mustangs (at least until you overpower or abuse them). |
One thing I have heard is that trying to buy a nice WRX is like trying to buy a rust free 914. Possible, but not probable. Most of the buyers for these cars are young and foolish (prolly why you can buy low mileage engines cheap after they run into a tree) the people who usually buy these cars flog the shit out of them and usually pile them up within a year. Just be aware of what you buy, ask a shitload of questions about the PO and pray to the gods....
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 06:42 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 8 2006, 09:02 AM) | ||
You are gonna use 944 axles.cvs? How much for a set? ( do you have a part number for them) Is there not enough room for this adaptor when used with 914 axles/cvs? Have you looked at bus axles/cvs?? Your adaptor has a hole in it for the roll pin? You're gonna use stubs from an earlier year tranny? Jim |
I think the 944 CV setup that Clay posted awhile ago is the way to go for this swap. Cheap, stronger and you can actually buy new CV's. Look here at andy's thread -
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=36170&hl=944
Using this combination allows you to go 5 lug if you use the 944 parts on the axle end or leave the axle end alone and just use the 944 inners and the "magic part" that adapts the 944 CV to the Suby trans.
Here is the "magic" part
BTW I just bought a 94 FWD Legacy trans for $200 - it's in Oregon but my parents are driving down to see the baby tomarrow so they are picking it up for me on the way! This is what the stealer wanted for just the rear case and I had to order it from Japan and wait 6 weeks. According to the junkyard search program there are no FWD Legacy transmissions in California, I guess most people that wanted FWD bought autos.
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Posted by: nsyr Feb 8 2006, 06:44 PM
Here is my rear tranny mount for the fwd version
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Posted by: nsyr Feb 8 2006, 06:45 PM
i used part of the original tranny mount
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 06:48 PM
So - what is the "magic part" - it's a VW bus cv adaptor flange that the off road guys use, just need to have someone make it with the correct Subaru spline and drill a hole for the roll pin and were done.
Of course you can always weld up something like we were discussing before.
http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=57&PHPSESSID=895e58aaa08fdb10eb5ace0c94e6f32e
These are for Z-cars and seem to hold up well to lots of power. I have already emailed them for details.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 8 2006, 06:52 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 05:48 PM) |
| So - what is the "magic part" - it's a VW bus cv adaptor flange that the off road guys use, just need to have someone make it with the correct Subaru spline and drill a hole for the roll pin and were done. Of course you can always weld up something like we were discussing before. http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=57&PHPSESSID=895e58aaa08fdb10eb5ace0c94e6f32e These are for Z-cars and seem to hold up well to lots of power. I have already emailed them for details. |
interesting stuff.....they even have billet front hubs for converting early Z cars to 5 lug ......
Posted by: nsyr Feb 8 2006, 06:55 PM
You are definately going to need shorter axles. the 914 axles are just to long to use with a suby transmission. i have a set of early 924 axles that i will be using for the welded flange deal.
Posted by: speedster356 Feb 8 2006, 06:55 PM
I'll give you an idea of how strong the FWD box is in the next couple of weeks. I'm building an STI 2.5 engine, 2.0ltr heads, TD05 turbo and high flowed 99 STI injectors. The box stood up to the 2.0ltr with no problems, with repeated hillclimbs and drags. I've since installed an aftermarket LSD (plated KAAZ). The new engine combo will be low boost and low stress with about 250-60 HP @ the rears but with quite a bit more torque. Was running 238 with the 20.ltr.
Wish me luck........ 
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 06:55 PM
| QUOTE (nsyr @ Feb 8 2006, 04:45 PM) |
| i used part of the original tranny mount |
That's what I am looking at doing. I want something like that in the rear and also run tubes forward to the engine to form a 4 point cradle that will hold the engine up when the transmission is removed.
We could always go nuts and do something like this
http://www.wevo.com/sideshiftcase_kit.jpg
Posted by: nsyr Feb 8 2006, 07:00 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 07:55 PM) |
| We could always go nuts and do something like this http://www.wevo.com/sideshiftcase_kit.jpg |
I think a cable setup will be just fine. (and alot cheaper)
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 07:06 PM
| QUOTE (bondo @ Feb 8 2006, 12:00 PM) |
| This is interesting stuff. Has anyone checked into changing the gearing? I know subie transmissions come geared terribly for V8 use, which pretty much rules them out. But if they were afforably re-gearable.. |
It depends what "affordable" means. There are many aftermarket gear sets and final drives for these transmissions. This is what makes converting the AWD transmission to the FWD format so appealing (besides getting a nice almost new clean transmission.)
Look here http://www.rallispec.com/sub_gear.htm
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 07:09 PM
| QUOTE (nsyr @ Feb 8 2006, 05:00 PM) | ||
I think a cable setup will be just fine. (and alot cheaper) |
Just a bit cheaper.
What do think it would cost to make 10 castings like that 20-30K? Maybe if we doing this swap a few hundred times it would be worth while.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 07:15 PM
| QUOTE (nsyr @ Feb 8 2006, 04:55 PM) |
| You are definately going to need shorter axles. the 914 axles are just to long to use with a suby transmission. i have a set of early 924 axles that i will be using for the welded flange deal. |
I'm not really worried about the axle length right now, getting custom length axles is now big deal if the splines are something standard and just the length is changing. I think almost any combination that uses Porsche/VW cv's will be OK, but the more 914 parts we can keep the better/cheaper/easier it gets. I read a 911 axle was an inch shorter than the 914.
I think I need to stare at the bottom of my transmission for a while.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 07:18 PM
Not done yet, look at the difference between the FWD and the AWD transmissions in the car.
FWD from Andrew
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 07:20 PM
AWD from my car
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Posted by: atsealevel914 Feb 8 2006, 08:46 PM
| QUOTE (speedster356 @ Feb 8 2006, 04:55 PM) |
| I'll give you an idea of how strong the FWD box is in the next couple of weeks. I'm building a STI 2.5 engine, 2.0ltr heads, TD05 turbo and high flowed 99 STI injectors. The box stood up to the 2.0ltr with no problems, even repeated hillclimbs and drags. I have since installed an aftermarket LSD (plated KAAZ). The new engine combo will be low boost and low stress with about 250-60 HP @ the rears but with quite a bit more torque. Was running 238 with the 20.ltr. Wish me luck........ |
hey, is your fwd from a 90-94 legacy, or from the later impreza? Reason i ask is my fwd is from a legacy and i want to put an lsd on it like you but i dont know which lsd fits my trans since it would have to cross over from a 5mt AWD, but which one?
Has anyone suggested yet, to use the subaru inboard cv and the 944 outboard cv with a custom axle from the driveshaft shop or other co. ? The driveshaft shop has subaru cv's that handle serious hp.
If the 944 axles are to long the weld up flange wont be possible (early 924 to hard to find) and i will probably go the other route i mentioned above.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 8 2006, 10:21 PM
| QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Feb 8 2006, 06:46 PM) |
| Has anyone suggested yet, to use the subaru inboard cv and the 944 outboard cv with a custom axle from the driveshaft shop or other co. ? The driveshaft shop has subaru cv's that handle serious hp. If the 944 axles are to long the weld up flange wont be possible (early 924 to hard to find) and i will probably go the other route i mentioned above. |
Yep, a few pages ago. That would require a true custom axle not just a non-standard length one. I also don't think you could take the axle out of the car without removing the trailing arm. I'm not sure how this works on a Suby. Normally on a FWD car you have to partially disassemble the front end in order to remove an axle shaft.
Keep the ideas coming - we can figure out a great way around this little problem, I really don't want axles that cost more than my engine.
Posted by: guiltless Feb 9 2006, 01:01 AM
Here are some sites that were recommended to me from an STI owner when I asked what he thought I should do to strengthen the WRX gearbox.
Personally, I am going with straight cut, dog engagement. Fast, positive, strong as hell and just as niosy. Site #1 has a good video depicting "dog" style shifting. It was love at first watch for me.
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/html/products.htm
http://www.par-engineering.com/products.htm
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 9 2006, 01:41 PM
| QUOTE (db9146 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:28 AM) |
| Anyone looked to see if one of these Suby trans can be mated to a Porsche 3.6? I am exploring ALL possibilities in place of the 901 (built 901, 915, G50, Boxster, 944, etc.). |
I keep thinking about this. Wouldn't the KEP adaptor work "backwards" the holes should line up. The flywheel won't work.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 9 2006, 01:49 PM
I have found a shop to make flanges for the project.
What CV's do you guys want on the transmission end? I am leaning toward the 944. This let's us use other 33 spline axles like the 911.
I am planning on paying about $350-400 for the pair. These will be top quality US made parts that will not break - period.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 9 2006, 01:58 PM
I "think" the axles are a larger OD on the 911 units, so the 944 CV might not work if the spline OD is larger as well (you'd think it would be since a larger OD axle would be silly to have a smaller OD spline...weakest link sorta thing)
is that price for just a pair? price break for multiple sets?
Posted by: neo914-6 Feb 9 2006, 02:01 PM
Steve,
Whats the width of the Suby transaxle output flange to output flange? If close to the BoxsterAudi transaxle (I'm using) it could add quantities when getting them custom made. Commonality has it's benefits. I will use 911 CV's 108mm = 4.25" dia...
Posted by: nsyr Feb 9 2006, 02:01 PM
the bus axles would work for 944 cv's. they are an 1.5" shorter than 914 with the same spline.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 9 2006, 02:07 PM
| QUOTE (neo914-6 @ Feb 9 2006, 12:01 PM) |
| Steve, Whats the width of the Suby transaxle output flange to output flange? If close to the BoxsterAudi transaxle (I'm using) it could add quantities when getting them custom made. Commonality has it's benefits. I will use 911 CV's 108mm = 4.25" dia... |
Hi Felix,
This flange does not exist yet, so I can't answer that. The distance between this non-existent flange and the wheel side flange I am developing will be 1 or 1-1/2 shorter than the 914 so we can use 911 or Bus axles.
Posted by: d914 Feb 10 2006, 12:49 PM
parts are here!@!! Parts are here... looking good!!!
Posted by: neo914-6 Feb 10 2006, 12:56 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 9 2006, 12:07 PM) | ||
Hi Felix, This flange does not exist yet, so I can't answer that. The distance between this non-existent flange and the wheel side flange I am developing will be 1 or 1-1/2 shorter than the 914 so we can use 911 or Bus axles. |
Steve,
what I meant was the dimension between the flanges on the transmission. The transmission width between it's flanges will dictate the axle length. I expect they will be longer than stock which will require an adapter or custom length axle.
Posted by: d914 Feb 10 2006, 02:25 PM
fuzzy pics of the tranny pieces, didn't have my galsses
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Posted by: jimkelly Feb 10 2006, 02:28 PM
If Steve ultimately uses a fwd rear housing on his awd tranny with the two most rearward awd sections removed - I'd guess he would not need the plate - but would only need the sleeve??
Posted by: d914 Feb 10 2006, 02:39 PM
you remove the awd sections, thats why you need the rear plate. Otherwise there is a big whole going out the back for a drive shaft/universal....The two pieces needed are shown, plus it will shorten the tranny for a better fit...
I believe
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 10 2006, 02:48 PM
The way I see it from the pics in Steve's blog and his writtings is that he plans to remove both sections and us a fwd rear housing which would negate the need for the plate. The plate would be needed if only the last one section were removed?
Personally I think using the plate and removing only the last section would save sourcing out fwd rear housing and the space gained still may not allow a single muffler to be used. Probably best to run dual exhaust with short mufflers on either side of the tranny?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/blog-1139236938.jpg
http://www.sakercars.com.au/assets/aus_gallery/106_0663.JPG
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 10 2006, 03:14 PM
I haven't got my parts yet - maybe later today. I will know this weekend if the FWD cover will work or not. The point of my trying the FWD cover is to avoid any modifications to the car. The AWD will work fine if you just "clearance" the car a little bit - I don't want to do that if I don't have to. There should be plenty of room for a good muffler with the FWD cover in place.
BTW - I am one step closer to getting the flanges made. I decided to go with Bus CV's on the transmission side. These will allow us to use the stock 914 on the wheel side or use the 944 setup if you want a cheap strong 5 lug setup. I am hoping to use a stock Bus axle.
Posted by: d914 Feb 10 2006, 03:53 PM
fwd cover= a junk yard piece or the new billet piece??
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 10 2006, 05:45 PM
Cover - as I understand it - is the same rear cover as in the top pic on page 12 - if it fits.
The problem would be tracking down these rear fwd covers and seeing it the aussy's would alow orders for just the sleeve.
im
Posted by: d914 Feb 10 2006, 06:29 PM
I don't see just ordering the sleeve as an issue for them. Line item pricing was by the part...Nothing fancy in the cover!!
Posted by: Mueller Feb 10 2006, 07:12 PM
Steve,
Check out this company for the axle/CV.....
http://www.nitrodriveline.com/
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 11 2006, 12:47 AM
| QUOTE (d914 @ Feb 10 2006, 01:53 PM) |
| fwd cover= a junk yard piece or the new billet piece?? |
Junk yard or Suby dealer part. About $150 new ordered from Japan - 6 week lead time. I found a used trans instead.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 11 2006, 12:52 AM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 10 2006, 05:12 PM) |
| Steve, Check out this company for the axle/CV..... http://www.nitrodriveline.com/ |
Get back to work Mike!
That place is on the 4th or 5th page of a web search for "custom CV flanges"
Logan (my new baby son)
was out in the garage "helping" today - he slept throught bandsawing, drilling, sanding/grinding and welding.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 11 2006, 07:00 AM
Better get some ear and eye protection for yourself.
I'm am not a expert on babies but - sleeping or not - I'd say Logan would be better off inside the house with a baby sitter?
I'd contact Micheal Jackson and the Aussy Aligator Dude as they probably know better how to get little ones safe : )
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 11 2006, 11:18 AM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 11 2006, 05:00 AM) |
| Better get some ear and eye protection for yourself. I'm am not a expert on babies but - sleeping or not - I'd say Logan would be better off inside the house with a baby sitter? I'd contact Micheal Jackson and the Aussy Aligator Dude as they probably know better how to get little ones safe : ) |
He was well out of harms way in a far corner. The bandsaw and the sander is pretty quiet and I was welding under the car.
I always use eye and ear protection now that my ears ring 24/7 from abuse when was young and stupid and didn't think grinders and hammers were loud.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 11 2006, 03:00 PM
Good to hear
welding, grinding, cutting - hum - do I smell progress?
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 01:49 AM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 11 2006, 01:00 PM) |
| Good to hear welding, grinding, cutting - hum - do I smell progress? Jim |
Some progress. I have the engine and trans in place and ready to make mounts. I made a tripod setup to hold the engine and trans - it has adjustable feet so I can position everything just right.
I got the FWD drive trans and it was a bust, the rear cover does not fit the AWD trans. So I put the AWD case back on and it fits better than I remember, it just needs a little trimming of the muffler shield.
Will post pictures later.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 12 2006, 04:52 AM
Sorry to hear about the fwd rear cover - would have been nice to gain some extra space but I think exhaust should be the easier of the challenges.
Are you planning on using stock exhaust manifolds to save $'s - or is there a reasonably priced header out there for our application?
I assume whether one has a newer hydraulic clutch or an older cable operated clutch disengagment system - the linkage for shifting gears will be the same?
Thanks,
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 12:16 PM
I don't think the stock exhaust will fit - I think it hangs to low but I have not confirmed this. Cobb tuning makes a nice header but it's $$$ and it looks like it would hang to low anyway. I think I will be making my own header or using the Outback motor stubs to make up something quick and easy.
The shift mechanism (I'm still thinking rod not cable) will be the same for a AWD or FWD, I was supprised to see that the shift rod is the same lenght on both transmissions.
The FWD cover may still work with a little persuading in a mill, but my mill is not ready for use yet.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 12 2006, 12:52 PM
Yeah - shift rod - I noticed that too - that they appear to be about the same length - or at least reach to same distance rearward per pics on page 12 - thus the fwd rear cover - still would not free up all the space that a typical 914 muffler would occupy.
For part of today I thought the fwd rear cover was a - MYTH BUSTED : )
So you are gonna hold off on making the engine and tranny mount untill you can get the fwd rear housing milled?
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 01:07 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 12 2006, 10:52 AM) |
| For part of today I thought the fwd rear cover was a - MYTH BUSTED : ) So you are gonna hold off on making the engine and tranny mount untill you can get the fwd rear housing milled? Jim |
FWD cover would still get you more room on bottom. I was suprised to see how little was gained/lost with the 2 different covers. The only thing needed to make the AWD cover fit would be notch the muffler shield or gring the rib off of the top of the cover. The rib isn't doing anything without the AWD stuff so it can be safely removed.
I am going to make mounts for both the AWD and the FWD transmissions.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 12 2006, 01:13 PM
| QUOTE |
| The FWD cover may still work with a little persuading in a mill, but my mill is not ready for use yet. |
I'm home all day today (gotta leave by 7:00 to see the girls tonight
)I'm also probebly going to take Wed. or Thrusday off and play around the house as well.......
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 01:24 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 12 2006, 11:13 AM) | ||
I'm home all day today (gotta leave by 7:00 to see the girls tonight )I'm also probebly going to take Wed. or Thrusday off and play around the house as well....... |
Is your mill up and running? Want to make some chips on Wed?
Posted by: Mueller Feb 12 2006, 01:25 PM
does anyone have a list or know of what years or models of suby transmissions are direct replacements for each other?
with this "kit" you are thinking of, would one be tied into just one model year or ????
what about the engines?
just thinking outloud
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 03:35 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 12 2006, 11:25 AM) |
| does anyone have a list or know of what years or models of suby transmissions are direct replacements for each other? with this "kit" you are thinking of, would one be tied into just one model year or ???? what about the engines? just thinking outloud |
I "think" the engine and trans mounts are the same for all of the modern Subarus. All of that I have seen look the same. The FWD and AWD have different mounts.
Edit:
Here is some more info on Suby engines. From the swap section on NASIOC
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386462
Q: "Can I put a
A: Subaru has a high interchangability rate as far as drivetrain components go. If your car came with an EJ series engine, then any other EJ series engine will "drop" into your chassis. I say "drop" because while they do share the same engine mounts, some other components may be required to change first before the engine can go in. Think Legos.
Q: "What is an 'EJ' series engine?"
A: EJ is the engine code for many Subaru engines. It is thought to have the following definition: E-Engine and J-H4. They are commonly found in the Impreza, Legacy, Liberty (overseas Legacy), Forester, and WRX. The typical naming convention is the engine code followed by the engine size. ie: a 1.8L engine from a 1993 Subaru Impreza is EJ18.
Q: "I have
A: Lets go over the model history first:
EJ18: Found in Imprezas from 1993-1997. Rated at 110hp and 120 ft-lbs
EJ22 Phase I: Found in Legacies from 1990-1998 and Imprezas from 1995-1998. Comes rated at 130hp and 137 ft-lbs, 135hp and 140 ft-lbs, or 137hp and 145 ft-lbs.
EJ22 Phase II: Found in Legacies in 1999 and Imprezas from 1999-2001. Rated at 142hp and 149 ft-lbs.
EJ22-T Phase I: Found in Sport Sedan and Touring Wagons (Legacies) from 1990-1994. Turbocharged and non-intercooled. Rated at 160hp and 181 ft-lbs. Closed deck, cast pistons, forged rods, oil squirters: turbo motor. Poor flowing heads.
EJ25 DOHC Phase I: Found in Legacies from 1996-1999, Imprezas in 1998, and Foresters in 1998. Rated at either 155hp and 140 ft-lbs in 1996 or 165hp and 162 ft-lbs in 1997-1999.
EJ25 SOHC Phase II: Found in Legacies from 2000+, Imprezas from 1999+, and Foresters from 1999+. Rated at 165hp and 166 ft-lbs. There was a slight compression ratio change from 1999-2000 where it went from 9.7:1 to 10.0:1.
USDM EJ20: US Domestic Market WRX. Found in 2002+ WRXs. Rated at 227hp and 217 ft-lbs. Turbocharged, intercooled, open deck, and decent heads.
EJ25T DOHC: Available in 2004 in the Forester XT. Rated at 210hp and 235 ft-lbs. Turbocharged, intercooled, VVTi (Variable Valve Timing), and drive by wire.
EJ25T-STi DOHC: Available in 2004 in the WRX STi. Rated at 300hp and 300 ft-lbs. Turbocharged, intercooled, AVCS (Active Valve Control System), drive by wire, intercooler sprayer, and semi-closed design.
There is also a large variety of engines available from the JDM and EDM locales. The EG33 from the SVX and the EZ30 from the new H6 Legacy can also be found, but they are larger and will be more difficult to swap.
With that out of the way, the choices are pretty limitless. As stated previously, since these are all EJ series engines, they will all bolt into any Forester, Impreza, or Legacy.
More
Q: "Can I use
A: The answer is almost a resounding yes. All EJ series engines share the same bolt pattern on the bellhousing. While some use fewer bolts than others, they will still bolt up.
One caution: the turbo transmissions use a pull-style clutch whereas the NA transmissions use a push-style clutch. If you are swapping transmission types, you need to match the transmission up with the correct clutch/flywheel assembly.
One more precaution: if you are swapping in a transmission, you need to be sure that your rear differential final drive ratio matches the final drive ratio of your transmissions. Installing a new transmission without checking this could permanently damage your center differential! Putting an engine from a FWD car into an AWD car or vice versa does not change the swap criteria as it will still all bolt together.
Thirdly, the older transmissions use a different shift linkage joint attaching to the shift forks of the transmission. The older transmissions have a fork that attaches to the rest of the shift linkage whereas the newer transmissions have a barrel joint. This must be updated if you are to change from an older tranny to a newer one or vice versa. It is believed that the older style shift linkage was used up until 1997. Beyond 1996, the transmission linkage should be the new style.
Finally, the older transmissions utilize a stud on the transmission for mounting the lower hole of the flange of the starter. If you swap in a newer transmission onto an older block, the block will not have the threads for the lower starter bolt. Some have reported success with just using the upper starter bolt, others have tapped a hole into the block.http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386462
Posted by: Mueller Feb 12 2006, 04:05 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 12 2006, 12:24 PM) |
| Is your mill up and running? Want to make some chips on Wed? |
yep, mill works....gotta do G-code commands for multiple axis movement at the same time or keyboard inputs (curser keys to move in .0001" to 5" increments)
I'll schedual to take Wed. off.
Sonu (he's got the Audi 1.8T motor and Audi gear box in his 914) might show up as well to pick up some metal I am giving him.
oh yea, no making fun of my messy garage, or workshop or my mickey mouse engieering of my CNC mill or ???? hahaha
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 06:58 PM
Made a little more progress over the last few days between parents visiting, watching the baby and fixing the daily driver. 1st I made up a tripod to replace the jack to allow for precise positioning of the engine and transmission.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 07:00 PM
Checking the CV clearance
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 07:01 PM
Then I worked on getting the Saker conversion parts put on. Here is the adaptor sleeve.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 07:03 PM
Here is the 2 shafts that will be locked together with the sleeve. In AWD mode the larger shaft drives the center differential and the smaller shaft gets power from the center diff.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 07:09 PM
Here is the rear cover. I forgot take picture of the sleeve installed.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 07:11 PM
Parts installed in the car. Nice ad.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 07:12 PM
Another view
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 07:13 PM
Muffler shield clearence, or lack of clearence.
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Posted by: jimkelly Feb 12 2006, 07:14 PM
That engine/tranny combo with the saker plate on back looks awesome!!
You able to get it centered with one axle assy in and the drivers side off the car?
That oil pan really hangs down low!
Great shots of the shafts and the sleeve.
Tripod is a fantastic idea
Looks like 914 axles/cvs could work with the right output stub/adaptor but I suppose it is better to design any custom parts for a stronger axle/cv combo?
Thanks,
Jim
Posted by: d914 Feb 12 2006, 07:24 PM
looks good... keep blazing that trail!!
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 12 2006, 07:46 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 12 2006, 05:14 PM) |
| That engine/tranny combo with the saker plate on back looks awesome!! You able to get it centered with one axle assy in and the drivers side off the car? That oil pan really hangs down low! Great shots of the shafts and the sleeve. Tripod is a fantastic idea Looks like 914 axles/cvs could work with the right output stub/adaptor but I suppose it is better to design any custom parts for a stronger axle/cv combo? Thanks, Jim |
Thanks for the kind words.
Yes the engine is centered up within 1/16" I used various references on the car to center it up.
Yes, the oil pan is low. I might be able to get the engine up higher if I move the engine forward. If I do that the axles won't be running nice and straight and I don't want to do that. It eats power and wears the CV, I still need to position the wheel in the loaded position to get the engine/trans in the exact correct position. It's close right now.
Like Andrew has said the 914 axle is not going to work - it's fully compressed (or close to it) in the picture and it should be almost fully extended with the wheels at full droop.
Andrew can you tell me how the long the bus axle is? I know you said it's 1.5" shorter but how long is it. I really want one in my hand before I give the go-ahead on making some expensive flanges.
I won't get much done over the next few days while I purchase a tubing bender and clean up the mess that is my garage. Oh yeah I have to go to work and earn a paycheck.
and help take care of my new son and waste time here.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Feb 13 2006, 05:51 AM
Porsharu, pardon my ignorance but were is the shift rod that comes out of the trans? Is'nt the factory shift rod (that i dont see coming out of the saker end plate) retained? Great work by the way, you're an inspiration to us all.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 13 2006, 06:34 AM
Seems like Steve left it off for ease of mock up.
Thus you'll also notice that he has not installed all the bolts that hold the plate in place.
I guess if the rod needs any additional clearance it will have to be cut out of the truck floor?
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 13 2006, 12:18 PM
| QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Feb 13 2006, 03:51 AM) |
| Porsharu, pardon my ignorance but were is the shift rod that comes out of the trans? Is'nt the factory shift rod (that i dont see coming out of the saker end plate) retained? Great work by the way, you're an inspiration to us all. |
It's not there right now. I left it out during the mockup since I need to take it back apart to install a new gasket.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 13 2006, 12:19 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 13 2006, 04:34 AM) |
| I guess if the rod needs any additional clearance it will have to be cut out of the truck floor? Jim |
There is plenty of room for the shifter - cable or rod.
Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Feb 13 2006, 02:05 PM
Not to hijack the thread,but what kind of camera are you using those close ups look great.......
Bob
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 13 2006, 02:43 PM
| QUOTE (BIGKAT_83 @ Feb 13 2006, 12:05 PM) |
| Not to hijack the thread,but what kind of camera are you using those close ups look great....... Bob |
Olympus C-5050 - tweaked with photoshop elements "autofix"
Those are taken just using the normal mode then resized - the macro mode lets you get within inches.
Posted by: jsteele22 Feb 13 2006, 03:43 PM
Hi All,
I've been absorbed in work for a couple of months, so I've got a lot to catch up on. That Saker sleeve & plate looks like a nice way to go. A ham-fisted DIYer could hadle that job, no ?
I'm still not clear on the driveshaft situation. If the VW bus driveshaft approach works, then my fuzzy take on the situation is :
1) outer ends slip into stock 914 hubs.
2) inner ends have stock 914 CVs, boots, etc.
3) a custom adapter is fabricated that slips over a splined output shaft from Suby trans, and also accepts the standard 914 CV and bolts.
Is this what you guys have in mind ?
Congrats on the progress, BTW...
Posted by: nsyr Feb 13 2006, 05:40 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 12 2006, 08:46 PM) |
| Andrew can you tell me how the long the bus axle is? I know you said it's 1.5" shorter but how long is it. I really want one in my hand before I give the go-ahead on making some expensive flanges. |
The bus axles are 18.75" and 914 I believe are 20.25"
I don't have any bus axles so I can't really give you much more than that.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 13 2006, 06:28 PM
Maybe good to contact the seller at ebay?
Item number: 8016031818 EMPI 90-6903 Type 2, M/T, 68-79
or
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D90%2D6903
C13-90-6901 - COMPLETE- NEW - AXLE ASSEMBLY - BUS 68-79 - LEFT AUTOMATIC TRANS ONLY (OVERALL LENGTH 18 INCHES) - SOLD EACH (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 13 2006, 07:04 PM
| QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Feb 13 2006, 01:43 PM) |
| Hi All, I've been absorbed in work for a couple of months, so I've got a lot to catch up on. That Saker sleeve & plate looks like a nice way to go. A ham-fisted DIYer could hadle that job, no ? I'm still not clear on the driveshaft situation. If the VW bus driveshaft approach works, then my fuzzy take on the situation is : 1) outer ends slip into stock 914 hubs. 2) inner ends have stock 914 CVs, boots, etc. 3) a custom adapter is fabricated that slips over a splined output shaft from Suby trans, and also accepts the standard 914 CV and bolts. Is this what you guys have in mind ? Congrats on the progress, BTW... |
The sleeve deal is a very simple thing to do. You just need a pipe wrench to hold the shaft while you remove the big nut (you throw away the part that the pipe wrench grabs)
1) outer ends slip into stock 914 hubs.
Yes or use 944 parts to convert to 5 lug, the drive axle stays the same.
2) inner ends have stock 914 CVs, boots, etc.
Nope stock Bus or 944 CVs.
3) a custom adapter is fabricated that slips over a splined output shaft from Suby trans, and also accepts the standard 914 CV and bolts.
Yes - except again 944 or Bus CV's.
Posted by: bernbomb914 Feb 13 2006, 11:25 PM
does anyone know how the sub. automatic Trans. would work? and how strong is it with the higher HP. a old man wants to know
Bernie
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 14 2006, 12:48 AM
| QUOTE (bernbomb914 @ Feb 13 2006, 09:25 PM) |
| does anyone know how the sub. automatic Trans. would work? and how strong is it with the higher HP. a old man wants to know Bernie |
Look back in this thread - autos were lightly discussed. They seem to have lots of electronics to control them. I don't see why they wouldn't work. They might even work with the mounts I am developing. I have heard that they work pretty good with modest power (less than 200HP)
Posted by: Mueller Feb 14 2006, 04:25 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 13 2006, 11:48 PM) | ||
Look back in this thread - autos were lightly discussed. They seem to have lots of electronics to control them. I don't see why they wouldn't work. They might even work with the mounts I am developing. I have heard that they work pretty good with modest power (less than 200HP) |
in AUS. a lot of the more popular and more HP driven Subaru drag cars use the autoboxes, supposed to be better than the manual boxes......
| QUOTE |
| Here is the 2 shafts that will be locked together with the sleeve. In AWD mode the larger shaft drives the center differential and the smaller shaft gets power from the center diff. |
so in theory, one should be able to drill a hole thru both the OD shaft and inner shaft and pin them together or even weld them together??
Steve, get your metal today? Logans a cute little guy
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 14 2006, 04:56 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 14 2006, 02:25 PM) | ||
so in theory, one should be able to drill a hole thru both the OD shaft and inner shaft and pin them together or even weld them together?? Steve, get your metal today? Logans a cute little guy |
I guess you could do something like that to lock them together but then you are making the pinion gear part of the transmission shaft, and the sleeve only costs about $70 bucks and takes 10 minutes to install.
I got metal - ready to go out an chop it up
in preparation for drilling on your mill. We need a grinding and drilling smiley.Gotta go get the sweetheart some flowers first.
I have to admit he is a cute litte guy. Slept the whole time I was out - even in the steel place.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 16 2006, 01:44 AM
Steve,
Just for referance, I measured a 914 axle and a 911 axle (at the splines)
914 = 1.04"
911 = 1.19"
so the CV's could not interchange between the 2....
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 16 2006, 07:58 AM
I thought I read somewhere that auto's are better for turbo because they shift to the next gear quicker thus keeping rpms up thus the turbo stays spooled. May be a myth??
Jim
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 21 2006, 12:44 AM
Finally made some progress on the axles. I got a filthy nasty bus axle and a VW transmission flange today. The bus axle is indeed 1.5" shorter than the 914 axle. The splines are the same except the bus has 4mm longer splines (the 914 CV needs a spacer/washer to be used on the bus axle) The bus CV is the same size as the 944 CV (100mm in diameter) I think the 944 CV has smaller CV balls than the bus CV.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 21 2006, 12:45 AM
Here is the 914 and the bus axles side by side
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 21 2006, 12:46 AM
Outer CV's removed.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 21 2006, 12:47 AM
Splines - looks just like the 944 vs 914 splines.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 21 2006, 12:49 AM
The hybrid bus/914 axle assembly. I don't know if the 944 or the bus CV's are better in this application - or if it really matters at all. I think the smaller CV balls of the 944 would allow it to have move extension than the bus CV's.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 21 2006, 01:03 AM
Here is how the prototype flange will be made. The area "cut here" will be cut to obtain the correct overall flange length then the two flanges will be welded together and sent off to the machine shop as an example.
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Posted by: jimkelly Feb 21 2006, 05:22 AM
Steve,
Nice progress!
Will the custom flange be one piece ( with output stub attached ) or will it be two piece with the custom flange sliding onto the output stub and roll pinned on.
are these the bus axle assys needed? bus 1968-1979.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-90-6903
Jim
Posted by: atsealevel914 Feb 21 2006, 07:00 AM
Thanks for the update! I noted what you said about having to remove the trailing arm if I went with custom axles and Im going to do the same thing your doing but im not convinced. I think the welded up flange will warp when welded and be out of round. Do you know if this will happen? Is there a method to avoid this out of round situation? what do you think?
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 21 2006, 07:19 AM
I think Steve is only welding up the flange to give the machinst what is essentially a finished looking product. I expect the machinist will make a part that is one piece and solid - with no welds??
Jim
motor mount
motor mount
motor mount
motor mount
motor mount
motor mount
motor mount
motor mount
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 21 2006, 12:13 PM
| QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 21 2006, 05:19 AM) |
| I think Steve is only welding up the flange to give the machinst what is essentially a finished looking product. I expect the machinist will make a part that is one piece and solid - with no welds?? Jim motor mount motor mount motor mount motor mount motor mount motor mount motor mount motor mount |
Correct - the "real" flange will be one piece and made of correct steel (4340 off the top of my head.) The flange will be for the normal Subaru stub axle not the 2005 one-piece deal like I have.
The motor mount is being designed in my head while I collect parts for the tubing bender. I am making it so the engine can stay in place while you pull the transmission. I just ordered the dies and a very slick computer bending program. I hope to have the bender completed in a week.
I have been looking into radiators and I think a Suby radiator is the way to go because you can use the suby radiator hoses. I need to order one soon.
Posted by: jsteele22 Feb 21 2006, 12:16 PM
Hi Jim,
Can you show a pic (or a link to one) of how the subaru flange mates up with the subaru tranny ? I'm just trying to imagine what this final hybrid flange assembly is going to look like : is the machinist gonna have to cut splines ?
I'm no machinist, but one idea that I think might be feasable (shoot me down...) is to weld a slightly oversized plate onto the subaru flange, then chock it up in a lathe and turn a round, flat and perpendicular surface on it. Depending on the complexity of the Subaru flange, this could be a much easier approach than machining the whole thing from scratch.
Posted by: airsix Feb 21 2006, 12:30 PM
I think using cut and welded flange combos is a very real and feasable possibility. Driveline shops do this sort of thing all the time. I have a Toyota 4x4 that has been rebuilt with a stronger Dana CV welded up to the Toyota flange. No issues with it at all. Rather than going to a do-it-all machine-shop I'd go to a driveline specialist because they do this sort of thing all day long.
-Ben M.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 21 2006, 12:42 PM
| QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Feb 21 2006, 10:16 AM) |
| Hi Jim, Can you show a pic (or a link to one) of how the subaru flange mates up with the subaru tranny ? I'm just trying to imagine what this final hybrid flange assembly is going to look like : is the machinist gonna have to cut splines ? I'm no machinist, but one idea that I think might be feasable (shoot me down...) is to weld a slightly oversized plate onto the subaru flange, then chock it up in a lathe and turn a round, flat and perpendicular surface on it. Depending on the complexity of the Subaru flange, this could be a much easier approach than machining the whole thing from scratch |
While I know that the welded flange will work. I am doing this from the idea of being able to offer a kit to do this swap in the near future. Collecting parts to modify and weld would be a huge PITA. If I can get 5-10 people to buy flanges the cost will be similar to the modify-weld solution.
The Subaru flange slips onto a stub shaft in the transmission, it is retained with a roll pin. Look back in this thread for pics.
Yes cutting splines is required - that has been the problem with finding a shop to do this. I have found one that has the tooling and is willing to do small runs.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 21 2006, 01:18 PM
near future - does that sound nice or what ??
almost as nice a scoring lifetime dibs on the couch at the playboy mansion
Posted by: Mueller Feb 21 2006, 05:25 PM
just got off the phone with a buddy that went for a ride over the weekend in Eric T's Subaru 6 powered 914...he's trying to find Erics contact info so I can invite him over here....I know he was using a 914 transmission but for some reason I thought he was looking into using a Suby tranny as well....
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 25 2006, 12:08 PM
Pics of my tailshifter linkage at the firewall.
Luckily I have at least one extra sideshifter shifter and center tunnel rod.
Cause if Steve goes with cables from the firewall to the tranny shift actuator from his sideshift rod from the firewall - I want to benefit from being able to use it too : )
Jim
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Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Feb 25 2006, 12:28 PM
Here is Erics website, with email address and more...
http://www.etischer.com/
Posted by: Mueller Feb 25 2006, 03:32 PM
thanks Jeff (missed you at breakfast today...)
I e-mailed Eric at his old school e-mail addy which bounced back...didn't know about this one....
Posted by: jsteele22 Feb 25 2006, 10:31 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 21 2006, 04:25 PM) |
| just got off the phone with a buddy that went for a ride over the weekend in Eric T's Subaru 6 powered 914...he's trying to find Erics contact info so I can invite him over here....I know he was using a 914 transmission but for some reason I thought he was looking into using a Suby tranny as well.... |
Just to be clear, Eric used the engine from an XT6, a 2.7L flat six. It's from an older generation of cars (1980s, mainly) and has a different shape bellhousing than the newer EJ series, so he'd have to use an older tranny.
I came across that page and got pretty interested, until I found out that the XT6 engine isn't all that powerful; don't recall offhand, but I'm thinking 135 HP. Might as well go with an EJ22. They're getting to be cheap and plentiful.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:29 AM
After breakfast at IHOP I messed around a little bit with the car. I pulled the AWD transmission and installed the FWD to see how it fits. The FWD transmission also has the output stubs installed in it.
Here are a few pictures of both transmissions side by side.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:31 AM
Another showing the area I ground away for more clearance. I used an aluminum grinding wheel for this - works great and does not plug up.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:34 AM
From the other side. Note how much wider the AWD transmission is across the top. I think the AWD transmission with the FWD conversion kit weights about 15-20 pounds more than the FWD.
Also note the short dip stick tube on the AWD transmission - this may come in handy later.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:35 AM
View from the front showing the extra bolt holes and the 2 locations for the release arm pivit in the AWD trans.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:36 AM
Back on the engine and ready to go in the car.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:38 AM
In the car showing the gap between the hybrid bus/914 axle and the output stub - plenty of room for a flange. Good clearence up top.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:40 AM
Starter - that solinoid is about 1/4' from the trunk floor. I still haven't found an indexable starter for the Subaru, being able to rotate the starter body will gain some needed room.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:42 AM
Last one for now - The other side. The short dipstick from the AWD transmission would be nice here. There is about an inch or so of clearence between the bellhousing and the trunk floor. The engine is sitting at about a 3 degree angle with the front being the high end. I think this angle is more in a Subaru.
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Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 02:48 PM
This is just to clarify some things a bit. Jim sent me an email asking some questions.
Steve,
Have you settled on the fwd tranny being better for the conversion?
The grinding work you did tells me - yes??
Does it give more room for a custom axle flanges than the awd or is the spacing the same.
Glad to see some new pics - wasn't expecting the fwd tranny to be back in the mix : )
We will need a source for them but it should be cheaper overall than getting and awd and the saker parts.
Jim
Hi Jim,
I am using the FWD transmission because it has the output stubs and my AWD does not. The transmission requires disassembly to install or remove the stubs and I'm not in the mood to tear apart 2 transmissions just for the stubs, I am going to check on prices for 2 new stubs.
The grinding was to make more room on top of the bellhousing area - I prefer grinding on the Subaru parts vs. beating on the 914 body.
The spacing is the same for the flanges on both transmissions.
I think the FWD transmission will fit the best because of the shape of the rear case, but both will work fine. I am fairly sure the AWD transmissions are stronger and many of the AWD transmissions will have better (for perfomance) gear ratios and final drives. The FWD transmission is definatly cheaper if you can find one.
I still plan on making mounts for both transmission types - the engine craddle will be the same for both.
Posted by: jsteele22 Feb 26 2006, 05:49 PM
Great pictures. Looks like there's plenty of room to bang on that starter w/ a BFH.
I've haven't even seen one of these trannys in person, but I think I remember reading that the stub axles just pull out - there's some kind of ring on them that acts like a detent spring.
Posted by: speedster356 Feb 26 2006, 08:30 PM
In the Subaru trans you need to split the box to remove the diff, the stubs have a circlip on the inside of the spider gears. If you did want to split it, I would fit a LSD at the same time....much needed if the turbo engine is used...
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 11:35 PM
| QUOTE (speedster356 @ Feb 26 2006, 06:30 PM) |
| In the Subaru trans you need to split the box to remove the diff, the stubs have a circlip on the inside of the spider gears. If you did want to split it, I would fit a LSD at the same time....much needed if the turbo engine is used... |
The stubs are held in with circlips they are not coming out without taking the trans apart.
My thoughts exactly! Searching for a good LSD right now. The new factory torsen style with stub axles is looking good.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 26 2006, 11:38 PM
| QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Feb 26 2006, 03:49 PM) |
| Great pictures. Looks like there's plenty of room to bang on that starter w/ a BFH. |
I don't want to bang on my car with a BFH thats the point of this whole swap. It I wanted to alter the car the swap would be done by now.
Does anyone know of an aftermarket starter for a Subaru - I'm getting ready to alter the stock one.
Posted by: jsteele22 Feb 27 2006, 10:55 AM
Sorry, I meant the starter itself. I've got that no-hot-starts syndrome, and the only fix (short of replacement) is to bang on the starter or push start. One more thing to looking forward to ...
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 27 2006, 01:22 PM
A little info that I found today...
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0403scc_hybrid/
Picking the transmission
Aside from the gear ratios, we couldn't find any definitive info about differences between the WRX and lesser Subarus. They all look the same, and the iSpeed boys know only that it seems to take about the same amount of time to break a regular Impreza transmission as it does to break a WRX tranny. As with any transmission, durability depends on how you treat it. i-Speed's Adam Levy, whose brain was the source for most of this information, has been running a 2.5 RS transmission behind his 260-whp WRX engine for 30,000 miles without problems. He knows others, however, who with only slightly more power, go through a transmission every other month. Your mileage may vary.
If you can treat the gearbox with respect, you want anything but a WRX transmission. WRX gears are way too tall, and the ratios in the naturally aspirated cars are much shorter. If you do switch to a WRX box, be sure to switch to a WRX differential as well, otherwise the front and rear wheels will go different speeds and you'll break the gearbox before you get out of the driveway.
The other option, of course, is an STi six speed. If you do this, remember that you'll need an STi diff, all four axles, and all four hubs. Everything STi is substantially beefier.
Whichever you choose, be sure to use a clutch designed for your transmission. Naturally aspirated cars use a push-style clutch, while WRXs use a pull-style; the two are not interchangeable. You'll need a stronger aftermarket clutch, of course, if you use the naturally aspirated transmission.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 27 2006, 02:45 PM
| QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Feb 27 2006, 08:55 AM) |
| Sorry, I meant the starter itself. I've got that no-hot-starts syndrome, and the only fix (short of replacement) is to bang on the starter or push start. One more thing to looking forward to ... |
Changing the starter should be a 5 minute job - same with the alternator. I bet the whole engine can come out in less than 30 minutes when I'm done.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Feb 27 2006, 02:59 PM
| QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 27 2006, 11:22 AM) |
| A little info that I found today... http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0403scc_hybrid/ Picking the transmission Aside from the gear ratios, we couldn't find any definitive info about differences between the WRX and lesser Subarus. They all look the same, and the iSpeed boys know only that it seems to take about the same amount of time to break a regular Impreza transmission as it does to break a WRX tranny. As with any transmission, durability depends on how you treat it. i-Speed's Adam Levy, whose brain was the source for most of this information, has been running a 2.5 RS transmission behind his 260-whp WRX engine for 30,000 miles without problems. He knows others, however, who with only slightly more power, go through a transmission every other month. Your mileage may vary. If you can treat the gearbox with respect, you want anything but a WRX transmission. WRX gears are way too tall, and the ratios in the naturally aspirated cars are much shorter. If you do switch to a WRX box, be sure to switch to a WRX differential as well, otherwise the front and rear wheels will go different speeds and you'll break the gearbox before you get out of the driveway. The other option, of course, is an STi six speed. If you do this, remember that you'll need an STi diff, all four axles, and all four hubs. Everything STi is substantially beefier. Whichever you choose, be sure to use a clutch designed for your transmission. Naturally aspirated cars use a push-style clutch, while WRXs use a pull-style; the two are not interchangeable. You'll need a stronger aftermarket clutch, of course, if you use the naturally aspirated transmission. |
Wrx transmissions with way to tall gears on an awd subaru that weighs significantly more than a 914 are vitim to some heavy shock loads that tear them apart. On a 914 you have way less traction and weight thus not capable of exposing the trans to near the same loads that the heavier AWD WRX can. This is good because in a 914 the 5MT is a way happier camper.
The tall gears are also welcome in a 914 which is so light.You do not need to worry about matching the rear diff because ahh..914's are 2WD but im sure you know this.
6 speeds are nice but has anyone converted them to fwd to suit a mid engine application? I prefer a five speed, taller gears and less of them are better suited for high torque light weight cars. A perfect example is the marriage made in heaven of the 930 4 speed box with the small block on a 914.
Porsharu, Thanks for all the latest pictures im exited to know that the bus axle and flange is headed the right direction. Im game for a set of flanges and whatever other parts you make that you want to sell that will cut down the r&d on my project.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 27 2006, 05:08 PM
Here are the "way to tall gears"
US WRX (stock tire 205/55-16) Tire circumference is calculated
Gear Ratio Final drive Total ratio Tire Circ. Rev./Mile
1st 3.454 3.9 13.4706 78.15639 10920.38
2nd 1.947 3.9 7.5933 78.15639 6155.753
3rd 1.366 3.9 5.3274 78.15639 4318.828
4th 0.972 3.9 3.7908 78.15639 3073.134
5th 0.738 3.9 2.8782 78.15639 2333.306
I don't have the 901 ratios handy but I remember they were pretty close if you have the 4.11 or 4.44 final drive in the Suby. I think many of the Legacy FWD had taller gears (3.7 final drive)
The NA small engine (like 1.8l) transmissions had the "better" gear ratios (closer and lower final drive)
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 27 2006, 05:10 PM
Food for thought - off topic but you do need something to bolt the transmission to.
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Posted by: atsealevel914 Mar 5 2006, 06:01 PM
And another
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Posted by: atsealevel914 Mar 9 2006, 03:43 PM
Hey Porcharu, how are those flanges coming along? How much $$ are they going to be? Im ready to buy a set.
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 9 2006, 10:39 PM
| QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 9 2006, 01:43 PM) |
| Hey Porcharu, how are those flanges coming along? How much $$ are they going to be? Im ready to buy a set. |
Slow - my new baby is really slowing me down as far as the swap project is concerned. I should have some progress this weekend thanks to James.
Plan on at least $270 for a set, I'm probably not going to sell the flanges separatly (meaning you will need to buy the full kit) to people except to those that have been in from the start. Don't worry guys (you know who you are) you will be able to do whatever. The 3 people I'm talking about have been in from the start. They have also been helpful with the project.
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 9 2006, 11:01 PM
| QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 5 2006, 04:01 PM) |
| And another |
You can really see just how much angle the Suby engine is mounted at looking at this picture. Looks like at least 10 degrees.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Mar 10 2006, 10:06 AM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 9 2006, 08:39 PM) | ||
Slow - my new baby is really slowing me down as far as the swap project is concerned. I should have some progress this weekend thanks to James. Plan on at least $270 for a set, I'm probably not going to sell the flanges separatly (meaning you will need to buy the full kit) to people except to those that have been in from the start. Don't worry guys (you know who you are) you will be able to do whatever. The 3 people I'm talking about have been in from the start. They have also been helpful with the project. |
I cant use the kit since im doing an svx swap, cant you make an exception and sell me the flanges even if my name is jose and you dont like me (joke)? do it for the 914
Posted by: flyloki Mar 10 2006, 12:00 PM
So who's going to put together the CSOB plug 'n play kit?
Flange/CV/Axel/Hubs - Porcharu
Wiring Harnes - ?
Engine Mount Bar - Scott?
Mid Mount Rad housing/scoops - Scott?
Cable shifter - Wbergtho
Or maybe a set of the sorted designs for the fabricator pros?
Great job on all the development work guys....
Posted by: Mueller Mar 10 2006, 01:19 PM
| QUOTE (flyloki @ Mar 10 2006, 11:00 AM) |
| So who's going to put together the CSOB plug 'n play kit? Flange/CV/Axel/Hubs - Porcharu Wiring Harnes - ? Engine Mount Bar - Scott? Mid Mount Rad housing/scoops - Scott? Cable shifter - Wbergtho Or maybe a set of the sorted designs for the fabricator pros? Great job on all the development work guys.... |
Best bet is buy all the parts from the same person or make damn sure one part is compatible with the other parts....
I believe Steve had planned on making an engine mount bar as well as a radiator mount.
My money is on Steve since we know he's making progress and we have not heard from Scott in a quite a while with respect to a "kit" from him.
Posted by: jimkelly Mar 10 2006, 01:38 PM
There is a big difference between what Scott (Tony and Renegade) has done and what Steve is doing.
Scott has an EJ25 mated to a 914 tranny. See Tony's thread for dims on his engine mount as he is also using a 914 tranny and an EJ motor. Both are using $1000 in KEP adaptor parts but can use a stock 914 axle assys, shift linkage and speedo cable. Both have one off custom oil pan modifications as well. Great job guys !!!!
Steve on the other is making mounts and all for a Subaru EJ motor and for both the Subaru 5spd AWD and Subaru 5spd FWD trannys meaning no need for expense of KEP adaptor parts.
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 10 2006, 02:21 PM
| QUOTE (flyloki @ Mar 10 2006, 10:00 AM) |
| So who's going to put together the CSOB plug 'n play kit? Flange/CV/Axel/Hubs - Porcharu Wiring Harnes - ? Engine Mount Bar - Scott? Mid Mount Rad housing/scoops - Scott? Cable shifter - Wbergtho Or maybe a set of the sorted designs for the fabricator pros? Great job on all the development work guys.... |
That would be me.
I don't know what your idea of "cheap" is but I'm not going to get rich selling these things. I hope I can break even.
What I have in the works is a "hard parts" kit
1. Engine and transmission mounts - these bolt to the stock locations so no drilling/welding or cutting will need to be done to the car.
2. Radiator mount - engine compartment mounted radiator. I want to make this part of the engine cradle so everything is one "pod".
3. Custom adaptor flanges to allow the use of axles made from stock parts to fit the Subaru transmission.
4. Shift linkage. I have a design in my head for a cable setup, but a rod system may also work.
I have no plans on doing a wiring harness. Other people already do this (smallcar.com) and I am using an aftermarket EFI system on my car.
I am not going to sell plans because somewill go into bussiness selling my ideas. I am showing everything I do in my blog that you can copy if you want. I will price the kit so it would be silly to do it yourself unless you have all of the tools and like to fab stuff.
Posted by: flyloki Mar 10 2006, 06:44 PM
Porsharu-
Very cool, can't wait to see the final package. How will your aftermarket EFI interface with the stock harness? Which EFI are you using?
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 10 2006, 07:41 PM
| QUOTE (flyloki @ Mar 10 2006, 04:44 PM) |
| Porsharu- Very cool, can't wait to see the final package. How will your aftermarket EFI interface with the stock harness? Which EFI are you using? |
It will interface with the stock harness by never touching it. The stock subaru engine harness is gone. I'm using and SDS system.
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 10 2006, 07:44 PM
Some progress today! I called work and told them I'm working from home (forgot to mention I would be working on my car!!)
James sent me a pair of Subaru flanges so I could mock up the adaptor flanges that we need.
I promptly chopped one of them up and tacked it onto a 100MM VW output flange.
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Posted by: Porcharu Mar 10 2006, 07:45 PM
Other side. The welds ain't pretty - was in a hurry and used the mig.
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Posted by: Porcharu Mar 10 2006, 07:46 PM
On the transmission.
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Posted by: Porcharu Mar 10 2006, 07:47 PM
Axle installed. The chassis is at ride height.
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Posted by: Porcharu Mar 10 2006, 07:47 PM
Nother one.
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Posted by: Porcharu Mar 10 2006, 07:49 PM
| QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 5 2006, 04:01 PM) |
| And another |
That is a good example of just how much Subaru tilts the engine - the plenums are level in the car.
Posted by: Sideways Mar 10 2006, 07:55 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 10 2006, 01:21 PM) | ||
That would be me. I don't know what your idea of "cheap" is but I'm not going to get rich selling these things. I hope I can break even. What I have in the works is a "hard parts" kit 1. Engine and transmission mounts - these bolt to the stock locations so no drilling/welding or cutting will need to be done to the car. 2. Radiator mount - engine compartment mounted radiator. I want to make this part of the engine cradle so everything is one "pod". 3. Custom adaptor flanges to allow the use of axles made from stock parts to fit the Subaru transmission. 4. Shift linkage. I have a design in my head for a cable setup, but a rod system may also work. I have no plans on doing a wiring harness. Other people already do this (smallcar.com) and I am using an aftermarket EFI system on my car. I am not going to sell plans because somewill go into bussiness selling my ideas. I am showing everything I do in my blog that you can copy if you want. I will price the kit so it would be silly to do it yourself unless you have all of the tools and like to fab stuff. |
Porcharu,
I have been following this thread, but not contributed as I am no where near buying of engine/g'box stage but once there will provide any help as necessary. I am very familiar with subaru's, having owned a number of WRX's stock & modified including an STI back in Australia. I will contribute here as much as possible...
Please make sure you give yourself the opportunity, at minimum to break even. The work you have already done will help many people, myself included, and you should at least get some additional benefit out of it.
Keep on working at it, If I end up with the subaru engine/trans combination your 'kit' is the top of my list.
My C$0.02 about US$0.01.
Posted by: TonyAKAVW Mar 10 2006, 08:00 PM
Wow, that looks great. Your kit of parts sounds really good too.
I really think the idea of having the radiator, engine and transmission in a single "power unit" is really great. I had tried to come up with a way to do it for my application, but there's just no way without adding a lot of extra metal. Having to disconnect the radiator for each engine drop will be annoying!
Cable shifting is probably the way to go. I decided to go with a cable shifter on my car beause of ground clearance issues and a general desire to get rid of the linkage and its associated problems. If the transmission is already suited for cable shifting, then its a snap.
-Tony
Posted by: Mueller Mar 10 2006, 08:08 PM
| QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Mar 10 2006, 07:00 PM) |
| Having to disconnect the radiator for each engine drop will be annoying! |
how many times do you think you have to drop the motor??
I like that welded up flange-to-spline adatper...if you can machine it to remove the excess material and get it to look exactly how you want it, you could that to the machine shop for a better visual idea on the part......
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 11 2006, 01:29 AM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 10 2006, 06:08 PM) | ||
how many times do you think you have to drop the motor?? I like that welded up flange-to-spline adatper...if you can machine it to remove the excess material and get it to look exactly how you want it, you could that to the machine shop for a better visual idea on the part...... |
I will be dropping the motor alot getting the kit done. I don't see it happening much after that - all work on the engine should be a snap in the car. I think the only time the engine would have to come out is for a rebuild or to pull the heads if you use studs.
If I still had access to the lathe at work I would have wasted some time making it pretty (I don't know how easily that thing would be to turn - it's pretty hard, my bandsaw cut it but it was not easy) .
I think I can just say "make it smooth here"
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 12 2006, 02:42 AM
| QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 10 2006, 08:06 AM) |
| I cant use the kit since im doing an svx swap, cant you make an exception and sell me the flanges even if my name is jose and you dont like me (joke)? do it for the 914 |
All right - I give. I'll sell you set of flanges. The reason I don't really want to sell just the flanges is because they are at the core of this whole thing that I am working on.
Of course I don't have any yet.
Is the SVX engine mounting different than the 4 cyls?
Posted by: atsealevel914 Mar 13 2006, 09:46 AM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 12 2006, 12:42 AM) | ||
All right - I give. I'll sell you set of flanges. The reason I don't really want to sell just the flanges is because they are at the core of this whole thing that I am working on. Of course I don't have any yet. Is the SVX engine mounting different than the 4 cyls? |
Thanks, I really appreciate it, my 914 is really important to me. Ill check if the mounts are the same. since your kit mounts the four back from the firewall to accomodate the rad, your kit might work for the six if the mounts are the same.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Mar 15 2006, 06:37 PM
| QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 13 2006, 07:46 AM) | ||||
Thanks, I really appreciate it, my 914 is really important to me. Ill check if the mounts are the same. since your kit mounts the four back from the firewall to accomodate the rad, your kit might work for the six if the mounts are the same. |
Just compared the ej22t to the eg33 and the ej22t motor mount fits on the svx block but not vise versa. The eg33(svx) mount has the same dimensions as the ej22t but has one more bolt hole which registers one the 3.3. So yes a mount designed for a four will bolt on to a six. Maybe I can use the cradles you are making if engine placement dosent interfere with firewall.
Porcharu, I will measure how long the 3.3 block is from the deck surface were the trany bolts up to it, to the furthest most point of the front of the motor(probably crank pulley).
Would you measure how much space there is from were your kit places the trany to the firewall of the 914?
Thanks.
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 16 2006, 12:33 AM
The transmission to block surface is about 1" forward of the "rear firewall" - where the rear enging seal is on a stock 914. There should be plenty of room for the six. There is almost a foot between the front of the engine and the firewall.
The distance between the transmission to block surface and the front engine tin seal area is about 24-1/2"
Posted by: jsteele22 Mar 18 2006, 05:29 PM
I've been reading back through this thread, and I've got an idea...
In this picture, the rod on the left is the one that controls the shifting (in/out, cw/ccw), right ? It looks like it is rather short, so that an extension of some sort is what actually protrudes from the rear of the Saker plate. (In fact, some of the other photos of the Saker plate installed didn't have a rod protruding, so I've pretty much convinced myself that this is the case.)
What I'm thinking about is cable shifters. A week or so ago somebody (I'm sure you guys saw it) posted a really sweet cable shifter design using a splined section from a (Suzuki Samurai ?) drive shaft. The biggest downside to that (or any other) cable shifter mechanism I've seen is the vulnerability to dirt and grime, and/or the need for a really good prophylactic. So what I'm pondering is the possibility of putting the crucial bits of the cable shifter inside the transmission housing. That way the male/female spline section would not only be protected, it would be nicely lubricated as well. I'm kind of picturing a sleeve that goes over that control shaft (I don't know what it's called) and is fixed to it. This sleeve has the male splines on its outer surface. Then a female splined section fits over this, and has an arm that is actuated by a cable to provide the cw/ccw motion. A ball joint on the end of the male spline section can couple to a second cable for the in/out motion. So rather than having the control shaft extending through the rear plate, there would be two cables.
Sound crazy ? Maybe just crazy enough to work ?
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Posted by: Porcharu Mar 18 2006, 06:28 PM
Cool idea but (damb buts always ruin things) it's not that simple. Those do-dads on the bottom of the picture are also part of the shift linkage. There is sort of a rocker arm at the end of the shift extension rod. I think getting the cables inside of the transmission case is do-able and is a good idea..
Posted by: jsteele22 Mar 19 2006, 01:52 PM
Okay, gotcha.
I'll probably need to wait until (much) later when I've got a tranny to mess with to see all the issues, but in general it looks like there's room for putting the guts of a cable shifter in there.
One thing I'm wondering is wherther the cable itself can enter the case. It seems inevitable that tranny fluid would wick back along the cable and enter the jacket. We'd have to figure out if that's a problem or a feature
BTW, how does the standard control shaft pass through the Saker plate ? Is there a plastic bushing ? a lip seal ?
Posted by: nsyr Mar 19 2006, 02:01 PM
Here is my set up for the cable shifter
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Posted by: nsyr Mar 19 2006, 02:04 PM
And my setup for the drive shafts. 924 shafts with 914 cv on outside and 924 cv on inside with 100 mm flange welded to subaru output.
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Posted by: jsteele22 Mar 19 2006, 02:43 PM
Cool. I looked up 924 axles on car-part.com, and they look reasonable. Somehow just saying that the driveshafts come from a Porsche sounds cooler than from a VW bus -- does that make me a snob ? Anyway, I'm assuming you got the ones from the 924 Manual, not the Auto, right ? On the Auto the left and right are different.
Also, there was some question earlier in this thread about whether this setup would allow you drop the engine/tranny without removing the trailing arms. And the verdict is ..... ?
Unless I'm missing something, it looks like the 924 CV is bolted to the custom 100 mm flange w/ the same kind of bolts as we have on our teeners. I'm not sure why the procedure wouldn't be the same.
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 19 2006, 04:51 PM
| QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Mar 19 2006, 11:52 AM) |
| Okay, gotcha. I'll probably need to wait until (much) later when I've got a tranny to mess with to see all the issues, but in general it looks like there's room for putting the guts of a cable shifter in there. One thing I'm wondering is wherther the cable itself can enter the case. It seems inevitable that tranny fluid would wick back along the cable and enter the jacket. We'd have to figure out if that's a problem or a feature BTW, how does the standard control shaft pass through the Saker plate ? Is there a plastic bushing ? a lip seal ? |
There is lots of room inside for a shifting mechanism.
The cables I am looking at have seals on them so trans oil leaking into them should not be a problem.
It's just a hole in the plate. The seal is in the center diff case.
Posted by: nsyr Mar 19 2006, 06:11 PM
I was asked a couple of questions on shifting. I am using a early mr2 shifter (see pic) and I have been driving it for about a week now. The shifter coming out of the transmission has very little travel but this setup is working good so far. I still have some adjusting to do and alot of tuning with msII. The gear ratios seem to be about the same as the 901.
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Posted by: jimkelly Mar 19 2006, 06:49 PM
I - think - I would like to see Steve some up with an external linkage design that could be used with either 5spd fwd or 5spd awd trannys as I have not decided what tranny I am gonna used but the fwd will save me from needing $250 in Saker parts. Jim
Posted by: Quilmes Mar 21 2006, 01:23 PM
This Subaru thread is really great and I am hoping that the question I have is not way off.
Is it possible to make the Subaru FWD/AWD transmission run in the opposite direction? Say like what happens on a 911 engine converted to a 914 layout.
Reason for this questions, I would like to build a VW Vanagon with a Subaru STI engine or SVX 3.3Li and possibly use the Subaru trans. Can a ring & pinion be changed to turn in the opposite direction?
I hear of people using these Subaru engines in the Vanagon’s with the original VW Vanagon trans.
What options due I have to use a 5spd/6spd transmission with this set up in a VW.
Thanks in advance
Quilmes
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Posted by: Porcharu Mar 21 2006, 01:26 PM
| QUOTE (Quilmes @ Mar 21 2006, 11:23 AM) |
| This Subaru thread is really great and I am hoping that the question I have is not way off. Is it possible to make the Subaru FWD/AWD transmission run in the opposite direction? Say like what happens on a 911 engine converted to a 914 layout. Reason for this questions, I would like to build a VW Vanagon with a Subaru STI engine or SVX 3.3Li and possibly use the Subaru trans. Can a ring & pinion be changed to turn in the opposite direction? I hear of people using these Subaru engines in the Vanagon’s with the original VW Vanagon trans. What options due I have to use a 5spd/6spd transmission with this set up in a VW. Thanks in advance Quilmes |
That's my next project! Imagine using the AWD trans to make a Syrcro from a regular van.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Mar 21 2006, 06:06 PM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 15 2006, 10:33 PM) |
| The transmission to block surface is about 1" forward of the "rear firewall" - where the rear enging seal is on a stock 914. There should be plenty of room for the six. There is almost a foot between the front of the engine and the firewall. The distance between the transmission to block surface and the front engine tin seal area is about 24-1/2" |
Just measured the length of the svx motor and its 21 1/2"
I will get the cradle from you too. In your cradle design is the engine mount and tranny mount one piece? Are you retaining the subaru motor mounts or will you mount the cradle solid to the block?
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 21 2006, 10:38 PM
| QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 21 2006, 04:06 PM) | ||
Just measured the length of the svx motor and its 21 1/2" I will get the cradle from you too. In your cradle design is the engine mount and tranny mount one piece? Are you retaining the subaru motor mounts or will you mount the cradle solid to the block? |
The engine cradle will be separate from the transmission mount. The engine and transmission will be mounted solid to the cradle. The cradles will be mounted to the 914 body with whatever 914 mounts you like.
Posted by: Quilmes Mar 22 2006, 11:01 AM
| QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 21 2006, 11:26 AM) |
| This Subaru That's my next project! Imagine using the AWD trans to make a Syrcro from a regular van. |
Keep me up to date on your project.
I just meet a person whom is finishing a VW Vanagon Syncro with a Audi MTM V6 Twin Turbo 420hp. Now that has to be a rocket, I was wondering how the trans holds up to all that power.
Do you think that if you can't turn around a ring and pinion in the Subaru trans box that maybe you could flip it up side down to get the wheels to trun in the other direction??? Something like what was done to lower the ride height on the 935's.
Do the bolt holes in the SVX and WRX engine line up if one flips the trans up side down?
Just a thought
I guess that you would still need to invent a shifter kit?
Quilmes
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Posted by: jimkelly Mar 23 2006, 01:00 PM
same mr2 shifter on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOTA-MR2-85-89-MANUAL-SHIFTER-AND-MECHANISM_W0QQitemZ8048321355QQcategoryZ33733QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Item number: 8048321355
Posted by: jimkelly Mar 23 2006, 02:48 PM
hill-holder feature on sub tranny - I assume it can simply be left unhooked??
Posted by: speedster356 Mar 29 2006, 05:54 AM
The 550 spyder replica now has a Subaru 2.5 turbo and Kaaz LSD fitted in the FWD gearbox. It's running Subaru drive shafts with custom stub axles in the 914 hubs. The stub axles simply have a spine at each end, one end being 914 for the hub drive and the other being Subaru which fits into the outboard Subaru CV outer and is pinned. ( I'm sure you could machine the original 914 stub). A better way is to do what is being done by you guys and run 914 all the way out to the adaptor at the gearbox end as the 914 drive shafts look to be a bit bigger in dia. I'm currently redoing my CVs as they have some wear. I'll be fitting stock Subaru STI as they are a bit stronger than standard WRX. These CVs are currently running on a WRX drag car running 8.5 @ 141 MPH so they appear to be beefy enough.
As a side note, the 2.5 has great low and midrange power compared to the old 2.0 turbo. Interestingly my 2.5 1/4 times were not close to the 2.0ltr as the turbo runs out of puff at the top end and I don't think my ratios and 3.9 final drive is suited to the new power curve for the drags. Having said that, at the recent hillclimb which is what I really use my car for, we managed a new record beating the old by 3.5s. go figure???
The dyno told me that I have 250 hp at the rears but it just turned the track tires into smoke on the rollers so we suspect there may be a bit more HP there than shown.
The radiator was moved from sitting in front of the engine and picking up air from under the car to sitting at the front of the car and getting air from the nose (I cut out the molded oil cooler grill at the front). This got rid of all my over temperature problems I'd had in the past. Should have done it long ago...........
Other questions while I'm here.....
Are the 914 rear wheel bearings (double row angular contact) a standard size or are they only available as a Porsche part?
Are there aftermarket rear trailing arm bushes available in a harder material?
cheers from downunder
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 30 2006, 12:01 AM
| QUOTE (speedster356 @ Mar 29 2006, 03:54 AM) |
| The 550 spyder replica now has a Subaru 2.5 turbo and Kaaz LSD fitted in the FWD gearbox. It's running Subaru drive shafts with custom stub axles in the 914 hubs. The stub axles simply have a spine at each end, one end being 914 for the hub drive and the other being Subaru which fits into the outboard Subaru CV outer and is pinned. ( I'm sure you could machine the original 914 stub). A better way is to do what is being done by you guys and run 914 all the way out to the adaptor at the gearbox end as the 914 drive shafts look to be a bit bigger in dia. I'm currently redoing my CVs as they have some wear. I'll be fitting stock Subaru STI as they are a bit stronger than standard WRX. These CVs are currently running on a WRX drag car running 8.5 @ 141 MPH so they appear to be beefy enough. As a side note, the 2.5 has great low and midrange power compared to the old 2.0 turbo. Interestingly my 2.5 1/4 times were not close to the 2.0ltr as the turbo runs out of puff at the top end and I don't think my ratios and 3.9 final drive is suited to the new power curve for the drags. Having said that, at the recent hillclimb which is what I really use my car for, we managed a new record beating the old by 3.5s. go figure??? The dyno told me that I have 250 hp at the rears but it just turned the track tires into smoke on the rollers so we suspect there may be a bit more HP there than shown. The radiator was moved from sitting in front of the engine and picking up air from under the car to sitting at the front of the car and getting air from the nose (I cut out the molded oil cooler grill at the front). This got rid of all my over temperature problems I'd had in the past. Should have done it long ago...........Other questions while I'm here..... Are the 914 rear wheel bearings (double row angular contact) a standard size or are they only available as a Porsche part? Are there aftermarket rear trailing arm bushes available in a harder material? cheers from downunder |
How is that Kaaz lsd diff? Is that the one with the 2-way 1.5-way setup option?
That car sounds like a blast to drive.
What size is the radiator in your car? I am planning on running a very large single row radiator in mine to maximize the limited air flow in front of the radiator.
There are several hard material bushings for the trailing arms - there was a thread last week or so on the virtues of each type.
I was working on the car this evening hoping to get the second flange mockup and axle setup finished so I can make full travel measurements before having the flanges made when I discovered that I got an axle from an automatic bus. It's a 1/2" to short! This and my tube bender dies are the wrong ones and need to go back.
Hopefully get another axle tomarrow so I can at least get that stuff done.
Posted by: speedster356 Mar 30 2006, 12:41 AM
The Kaaz is a 1.5 way. The radiator is a triple row all aluminium, it's actually an aftermarket radiator for a Nissan 200 that happened to be on sale very cheaply at the time, I added a couple of 12" aftermarket fans, the inlet and outlet were only 1 3/8" but seem to be quite adequate. Yes thats a good idea increasing the frontal area of the radiator and reducing the core thickness.
The VW Beetle conversions here with the EJ20T are running Holden Camira (Opal 4 cyl), Alfa and the like radiators and are finding that the temps are actually to low!
Ensure there's plenty of air flow in and plenty of exit flow.
Better get back to fitting the new 914 rear wheel bearing........I've been looking at it all afternoon and I'm buggered if I can see the solid gold that this bearings made of
Cheers
Posted by: speedster356 Apr 13 2006, 02:17 AM
Found the limit of the Subaru FWD box yesterday. Had a practise day at a local circuit and was into about lap 20 of the second session of the day (about 1m.08s laps) when 3rd gear started clicking badly so it looks like I've lost a tooth or more. The box was red hot to the touch, I wonder if an oil cooler and pump would have helped?
I'll bury it with full honours.......2 seasons of hillclimbs (1st and 2nd gear prestart burnouts), 30 passes on the 1/4 mile, half a dozen supersprints all with over 200 HP at the wheels....that $100 secondhand gearbox served me well 
The price seems to have gone up, I now have to pay $200 for it's replacement. 
Posted by: atsealevel914 Apr 13 2006, 02:35 AM
Found the limit of the Subaru FWD box yesterday. Had a practise day at a local circuit and was into about lap 20 of the second session of the day (about 1m.08s laps) when 3rd gear started clicking badly so it looks like I've lost a tooth or more. The box was red hot to the touch, I wonder if an oil cooler and pump would have helped?
I'll bury it with full honours.......2 seasons of hillclimbs (1st and 2nd gear prestart burnouts), 30 passes on the 1/4 mile, half a dozen supersprints all with over 200 HP at the wheels....that $100 secondhand gearbox served me well
The price seems to have gone up, I now have to pay $200 for it's replacement. Sweet! guess I wont have any problems with mine on the street. Can you tell me which lsd fits our FWD tranny (90-94 legacy)?
Posted by: speedster356 Apr 13 2006, 05:25 AM
KAAZ only list the one front LSD, the same part number for all the EJ range of 5 speed gearboxes.
Cusco also make an LSD or I think an STI viscous front LSD will fit?
Posted by: jimkelly Apr 14 2006, 11:32 AM
$200 for a tranny - is that great or what ?
I have two 914 I want to put EJ22's and 5spd fwd tranny's into.
Nice to hear the fwd 5spd can handle that much : )
I won't be racing - just touring around town and some infrequent longish trips.
I pull my 2.0 tomorrow to sell to another club member.
I plan to replace the plastic fuel lines - first chance I get.
Posted by: speedster356 Apr 15 2006, 12:31 AM
Went to pick up my secondhand FWD box today but it's not a Liberty FWD but a smaller EJ 1.6 ltr FWD box. The bellhousing bolting is the same but it has a different gearbox housing so my existing shifter and g/box mounts won't fit!
So I'll have to use my other spare FWD box and rob the required gearset components from it to make a good box again.
My question to Porcharu is what was the reason the FWD rear housing didn't fit on the AWD box? You mentioned with some machining it might fit? The reason I'm asking is that I have been offered an rebuilt WRX AWD box with new STI gearset complete with a front LSD, it's missing the centre diff but that's perfect for me! If I could fit the FWD rear housing with minimal machine work then this will fit straight back into my existing mounts/shifter etc and give me a stronger box.
Posted by: Porcharu Apr 15 2006, 11:36 AM
Went to pick up my secondhand FWD box today but it's not a Liberty FWD but a smaller EJ 1.6 ltr FWD box. The bellhousing bolting is the same but it has a different gearbox housing so my existing shifter and g/box mounts won't fit!
So I'll have to use my other spare FWD box and rob the required gearset components from it to make a good box again.
My question to Porcharu is what was the reason the FWD rear housing didn't fit on the AWD box? You mentioned with some machining it might fit? The reason I'm asking is that I have been offered an rebuilt WRX AWD box with new STI gearset complete with a front LSD, it's missing the centre diff but that's perfect for me! If I could fit the FWD rear housing with minimal machine work then this will fit straight back into my existing mounts/shifter etc and give me a stronger box.
The reason the FWD housing did not fit was because the lower shaft is longer on the AWD version. The FWD housing looks like would fit from the outside - but there is some extra aluminum in that area. I am almost certain that if you milled out that area it would fit just fine. Everything else is the same.
Posted by: speedster356 Apr 15 2006, 09:03 PM
Thanks for that, I'll get that gearbox then. I'll have a spare end housing if anyone needs one.
As a side note, the third gear problem was 3 teeth off the input shaft gear, and one slight chip on second gear tooth from debris in the box.
Posted by: jimkelly Apr 16 2006, 11:45 AM
pic of my ej22 engine and 5spd fwd tranny
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Posted by: jimkelly Apr 16 2006, 11:46 AM
oops - that was empty engine bay of my donor 1993 legacy wagon
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Posted by: jimkelly Apr 16 2006, 11:47 AM
that was my motor and tranny
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Posted by: speedster356 Apr 16 2006, 08:29 PM
wrxwiring.bmp ( 350.74k )
Number of downloads: 183
that was my motor and tranny
Now the fun part begins.....wait untill you start stripping out the wiring loom, I had enough wire to electrify an office block!
Posted by: jsteele22 Apr 16 2006, 08:55 PM
Hey porscharu & others,
Yesterday I went off to a local pick-n-pull and got a (4wd) tranny. (I'll post more in my progress thread.) I wanted to get the splined cups off the inner CV joint as well (the part that the roll pin presses into, and which has the rubber boot clipped on), but the CV joint didn't just pull apart like I had hoped. (Thats probably a good thing, most of the time...) I didn't have enough paper towels to get all the slime out of the CV joint to see if there was a snap ring in there. Do you know of a picture or drawing that shows where the snap ring is located ?
Thanks,
Jeff (who just might be looking for a Saker coupling ring...)
Posted by: speedster356 Apr 16 2006, 10:27 PM
Hey porscharu & others,
Yesterday I went off to a local pick-n-pull and got a (4wd) tranny. (I'll post more in my progress thread.) I wanted to get the splined cups off the inner CV joint as well (the part that the roll pin presses into, and which has the rubber boot clipped on), but the CV joint didn't just pull apart like I had hoped. (Thats probably a good thing, most of the time...) I didn't have enough paper towels to get all the slime out of the CV joint to see if there was a snap ring in there. Do you know of a picture or drawing that shows where the snap ring is located ?
Thanks,
Jeff (who just might be looking for a Saker coupling ring...)
The snap ring sits inside the outer about 5 mm back from the edge, you should be able to slide a small flat bladed screwdriver in (up one of the ball grooves) and catch the ring. Not hard to remove. What year was the car, as I have the complete Subaru workshop manuals on CD and should be able to find info as required.
Posted by: jimkelly Apr 17 2006, 05:18 AM
wiring ...
I'll be refering back to Tony' thread : ) and luckily my buddy is an electrical engineer - this shoudl help 
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=31579&st=80
Scott said...
that looks like you are mising a few plugs, but i cant see it all very well. dont tape it up too much you will probably have to open it up once to fix something.
-all the plugs i can think of are :
brain
2 o2 plugs
3 for engine connection
fuel pump relay
main realy
ignitor
obd connector
purge and pressure switching solinoids ( 2 plugs )
connection to relay board
-then loose wires are :
power
ground
speed sensor
temp sensor if you go stock
-then you need wires from the alt
Tony said...
Okay, so I will be simulating the following sensors..
Fuel level sender (0.12 to 4.95 volts)
Fuel Temp sender (2.5 to 3.8 volts)
Fuel Tank Pressure sender (2.3 to 2.7 volts)
Rear O2 sensor signal (0 - 0.9 volts)
Neutral position sensor (+12 in neutral, 0 when in gear)
Rear O2 heater sensor signal (0-1.0 volts)
Power Steering oil pressure sender (open/close)
There may be one more, I'm still finalizing the wiring...
Most of these wil use small 10-turn potentiometers to set the desired signal voltage, but I may end up using real metal-film resistors in the end, as they are a bit more reliable.
Posted by: jsteele22 Apr 17 2006, 09:43 AM
Hey porscharu & others,
Yesterday I went off to a local pick-n-pull and got a (4wd) tranny. (I'll post more in my progress thread.) I wanted to get the splined cups off the inner CV joint as well (the part that the roll pin presses into, and which has the rubber boot clipped on), but the CV joint didn't just pull apart like I had hoped. (Thats probably a good thing, most of the time...) I didn't have enough paper towels to get all the slime out of the CV joint to see if there was a snap ring in there. Do you know of a picture or drawing that shows where the snap ring is located ?
Thanks,
Jeff (who just might be looking for a Saker coupling ring...)
The snap ring sits inside the outer about 5 mm back from the edge, you should be able to slide a small flat bladed screwdriver in (up one of the ball grooves) and catch the ring. Not hard to remove. What year was the car, as I have the complete Subaru workshop manuals on CD and should be able to find info as required.
It's a 1990. I think it was an Impreza (forgot that part
). But at least I did make sure it was an EJ engine this time... Anyway, just knowing that there is a snap ring in there helps a lot. When I go back, I'll bring a butt-load of paper towels with me. Also, I may be wrong about this, but it seemed like those cups are made from two different kinds of metal : the splined sleeve itself, which has to be super hard, looked like it was bonded in somehow to the rest of the cup. Don't know if this helps any, but I keep picturing scenarios where you machine this sleeve out and use it somehow...
Posted by: jimkelly Apr 18 2006, 05:31 AM
Porscharu has a great idea for the axles - very professional looking, strong and adaptable - using - from the tranny - a custom flange, to a vw bus axle cv, to vw bus axle, to a 914 cv - and will be bolt on for those of us without many tools.
What I really like about what Porscharu is doing is he is making all the basic parts needed to install an EJ series engine and ((subaru tranny)) into a 914 without the need to make many mods to the chassis - this will be a first - a uniform standard so that anyone can do this conversion cleanly and for a decent price(TBD)
I just delivered to my local fabricating guru buddy a set of subaru axle assys and a set of 914 axles assys - he is gonna cut them in half - mill both axles (the 914 outter half and the subaru inner halfs) down to the same diameter and then press each side onto a - steel sleeve with 45 degree cuts at each end - and weld the sleeve to the axle halfs. This is an alternate solution - I hope it works.
This week I will be pulling another motor - the EJ22 motor in my 1995 legacy sedan parts car - the engine has a bad knock but lots of engine components are compatible with the 1993 EJ22 I will be using and it has a nice radiator in it too.
Posted by: Porcharu Apr 18 2006, 08:45 AM
Like Jim said I'm working on a nice flange for this purpose. In the end I think it will actually be cheaper to use the custom flange. Unless you actually have the Subaru cups, vw cv flanges and the tools to machine and weld the pieces together for nothing but your time the custom flanges will be the way to go. I have the design complete and I am working on getting some quotes for the machine work.
When the blogs are back up take a look at mine for some pictures.
Posted by: tgbo Apr 18 2006, 11:20 AM
Jim, pix of your axles when done, please--I finally got my engine out of MI, and am waiting on the Subie axles (didn't get loaded in the box ). Wiring seems to be just time and being careful, Scott is right, don't wrap it up too much until it all sits in place......
John
Posted by: nsyr Apr 18 2006, 01:24 PM
Just an update on my conversion. I have the 2 liter turbo with 9:1 compression and 91 legacy fwd transmission. I decided to try the 944 (or bus) flanges cut and welded to the subaru inner cv housing. It's been a little over a month since I finished this and it hasn't failed me yet and I have been doing some real hard 1st and 2nd gear launches. I still have some tuning to do with MS II but the power is amazing.
My 2 cents
Posted by: speedster356 Apr 19 2006, 04:56 AM
Fun isn't it! 
That's quite a high static comp your running. What's the engine specs? pistons/injectors/cams/turbo/boost levels etc? I had a great run with my FWD gearbox.
cheers from downunder
Posted by: jsteele22 Apr 28 2006, 10:10 AM
So I opened up the rear part my 1990 4WD tranny last night and looked around a little. I've got a question about how the 2WD conversion might affect oil handling. At the top of the section containing the center differential, there's a little plastic tray (kinda like a rain gutter) that catches oil slinging off the diff, and funnels it into the center of the main shaft. Here's a (crappy) photo :
This view is looking more or less downward into the tranny. The center diff has already been removed.
And here's where the oil goes. (I think that's the main shaft, right ?)
Anyway, my concern is that with the diff removed, no oil is gonna get slung up into the tray. So are we starving oil from the main shaft ? Anybody who has torn into a 2WD tranny : Is there some other way that oil gets fed into the center of the main shaft ?
Posted by: nsyr Apr 28 2006, 10:54 AM
Fun isn't it!
That's quite a high static comp your running. What's the engine specs? pistons/injectors/cams/turbo/boost levels etc? I had a great run with my FWD gearbox.cheers from downunder
I am assuming that is the static compression. The engine is a stock jdm twin turbo converted to single turbo (td04). Right now I am only running 8 psi. I tried 15psi but the clutch slipped at boost (i think). either that or boost leak at the bov. the injectors are i believe 420cc. i am in the middle of replacing the water pump right now so no tuning till that is done.
What pressure plate are you using?
Posted by: Porcharu Apr 28 2006, 07:37 PM
So I opened up the rear part my 1990 4WD tranny last night and looked around a little. I've got a question about how the 2WD conversion might affect oil handling. At the top of the section containing the center differential, there's a little plastic tray (kinda like a rain gutter) that catches oil slinging off the diff, and funnels it into the center of the main shaft. Here's a (crappy) photo :
This view is looking more or less downward into the tranny. The center diff has already been removed.
And here's where the oil goes. (I think that's the main shaft, right ?)
Anyway, my concern is that with the diff removed, no oil is gonna get slung up into the tray. So are we starving oil from the main shaft ? Anybody who has torn into a 2WD tranny : Is there some other way that oil gets fed into the center of the main shaft ?
I don't think it really matters. With the FWD kit installed the shaft turns the same speed as the gears (not always true with the center diff in place.) My transmission doesn't have the cover like yours.
Posted by: banksyinoz May 1 2006, 04:46 AM
great work guys is good to see that this conversion is taking off so well in the states but i suppose yhat it was only a matter of time 
Posted by: speedster356 Jun 5 2006, 06:06 AM
Heres a couple of shots of my new trans, it's an 2000 STI AWD gearset and LSD (ex Bathurst 24hr race spare Subaru box) in a 2000 non turbo AWD housing with Saka adaptor and modded FWD rear housing. I've machined a spare FWD end housing so there is clearance around the extended length of the pinion shaft. Then weld in filler plates. I did this so I didn't have to change my existing gearbox mount, cable clutch, shifter and also means I have a spare FWD box that will drop straight in.
Posted by: guiltless Jun 5 2006, 06:42 PM
The AWD box with the FWD tail is an awesome idea. What mods did you have to do to the tail to get it to fit properly? Other than the fil plates. Or does it just bolt right on?
Posted by: speedster356 Jun 5 2006, 08:48 PM
Just bolts right up after clearancing the rear for the long pinion shaft.
Posted by: Porcharu Jun 5 2006, 11:51 PM
Cool! I knew it would work. Glad to see it done.
I have made a tiny bit of progress on my swap. This whole dad thing takes alot more time than I thought it would.
Posted by: speedster356 Jun 7 2006, 04:03 AM
Yes, thanks Steve for the idea. 
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 27 2007, 10:43 AM
Time to wake this thread from the dead. 
I have found a shop that is equiped to make some nice flanges. I am sending my prototype to them as an example and hope to have a quote soon (a pair of flanges too.)
I have been spending my spare time fixing up a nice (cosmetically) four door Volvo for a DD/kid hauler. Mueller came over and ripped out the interior and power steering of my old beater Volvo that was sold to the smog Nazi’s last weekend. Mike's enthusiasm is contagious and gave me a needed kick in pants to get stuff done. I have pretty much performed a “tub swap” on my Volvo’s. The POS that went to the crusher looked like it had been sitting in a pick-n-pull for about a year.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 18 2007, 02:40 PM
Just a bump to get this thread back on the front page. I have been going back and forth with details on the flanges with the shop engineer. The flanges will be good for 500HP! 
Maybe we really can break a Suby tranny in a 914 
- good thing they are relatively cheap and upgrade parts are available.
Still working on Volvo's - getting sick of it. At least the car is REALLY clean.
Posted by: sakitume May 11 2007, 05:00 PM
Hello all. This is my first posting here at 914world. I've just read all 20 pages of this thread. Phew. My brain hurts. Thanks to everyone for their informative contributions. You guys are awesome!!!
I've just acquired a 914 and I am very interested in the ideas posted here. I love (good) swaps, you can't beat the increased power, reliability and cost factor of a good swap.
Kennedy makes awesome transaxle adapters. I've used one on a 914 with turbo Ford 2.8v6 (years ago) and on my Chevy 2.8v6 powered Westy camper (still have it). But the idea of not having to use the adapter components and just using cheap, readily obtainable, relatively new Subarau engine AND transmission combinations...then simply swapping the COMBINED unit into a Porsche 914 seems just so nice...so simple.
Anyways,
1) Porcharu, any idea on when these might become available. Inquiring minds want to know.
2) nsyr, your conversion is awesome. I've searched this site and have found hardly any mention or discussion of what you've accomplished. Are you the first person to have successfully completed a Subaru engine AND Subaru transmission swap into a 914? BTW, I like your welded inner cv joint solution. I might do something similar if I ever do this conversion and Porcharu's flanges aren't yet available.
3) Is the Australian adapter (for the AWD trans) still readiily available? If not, it seems that FWD (90-95 Legacy) transmissions are still easily obtainable...at least here in Southern California.
4) The EG33 engine seems to be readily available and cheap $600 to $800. In fact I'm finding them to be a bit cheaper than the EJ25. Do (or could) the same transmissions (that have been discussed) also mate to the EG33? Would an EG33 and matching transmission fit in a 914?
5) Lastly, I've read several descriptions (on other sites) that the axles (with CV joints) don't need to be exactly in line. IOW its perfectly fine to move the transmission forwards, rearwards, upwards..or whatever, as needed. WITHIN reason of course. This should allow you more leeway on finding the ideal position for the engine/transmission. If you're not going to use a mid mounted radiator then it seems like it would be a good idea to move the engine/transmission forwards...better polar moment of inertia?
Cheers,
Donovan
Posted by: toon1 May 11 2007, 07:08 PM
goo to see this thred come back to life. I am waching closely, I want to do one of these in the future.
Has anyone adressed the shifting? cables? 914 adaption?
Keith
Posted by: Chuck May 11 2007, 09:57 PM
I would love an update on the status of this as well. PM sent to Porcharu.
I thought the consensus was that a radiator in the engine bay did not sufficiently cool the motor; especially turbocharged motors. I also thought that moving the motor and transaxle slightly forward and placing the radiator in front ala the Renegade kit actually improved the balance of the car.
Posted by: TonyAKAVW May 11 2007, 11:32 PM
Engine bay mounted radiator can work, possibly for the turbo motors, but my guess is you'd have to use an expensive radiator and not lower the car at all.
I think its a toss-up with respect to the Renegade positioning of the engine. The Renegade mount actually has the engine sitting at least 2.5 inches higher than if you go with the minimalist approach which includes cutting the oil pan, using custom exhaust, etc. While it does move the engine forward, the vertical increase may offset that. Ideally, forward and down would be the best.
-Tony
Posted by: JPB May 12 2007, 06:40 AM
To the Porcharu gooroo, the Crimson Rocket smiles in your general direction. 
Posted by: nsyr May 12 2007, 08:15 AM
I've been using the 2wd subaru transaxle for just over a year now and have had no problems. this car is my daily driver. since the stock clutch for this transmission wasn't designed to hold wrx engine power i had to upgrade to a stage 3 clutch. this clutch seems to hold just fine. as for shifting i am using an mr2 cable shifter. it is kind of sloppy shifting though. i think some sort of shift rod would be better for this.
Posted by: toon1 May 12 2007, 11:06 AM
I've been using the 2wd subaru transaxle for just over a year now and have had no problems. this car is my daily driver. since the stock clutch for this transmission wasn't designed to hold wrx engine power i had to upgrade to a stage 3 clutch. this clutch seems to hold just fine. as for shifting i am using an mr2 cable shifter. it is kind of sloppy shifting though. i think some sort of shift rod would be better for this.
do you have any pics. of the shifter setup and tranaxle adapter?
Posted by: sakitume May 12 2007, 12:05 PM
toon1, I've just been reading tons of stuff and here are some answers to your question:
Go here to see pics of nsyr's MR2 shifter:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40733&st=340&p=637697&#entry637697
Here's some info nsyr posted (on page 18) about how the cables go to the transaxle.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40733&st=340&p=637570&#entry637570
Those links are actually the same page. So just click on one and make sure to scroll up a little (or down a little) to see all the great pics that nsyr has shared with us. Thanks nsyr!!!
Also, nsyr is not using a transaxle adapter (901 trans to Subaru engine), instead he is using a FWD transmission from a Subaru. nsyr, would that be an 89-95 FWD Legacy?
Posted by: nsyr May 12 2007, 04:20 PM
it is from an early 90's legacy. if i had to do over again i would use the wrx transmission with stock clutch instead spending $400 on the stage 3 clutch.
Posted by: sublimate Jun 16 2007, 11:04 AM
I saw that the original Saker conversion kit (at least when this thread started back in '05) was only for the 5-spd gearboxes.
Does anyone know what the possibility is of doing this with the newer STI 6-spd boxes?
Does anyone make a kit?
If not, is there anything radically different about the design of the 6 that would make it near impossible to do as custom work?
What about the 2.5 STI motor, can it be transplanted into a 914 as easily as the 2.0?
I've got a line on a wrecked STI that I'd like to get to transplant into my 914. Should I do it, of stick with a WRX?
Posted by: Porcharu Jun 16 2007, 11:25 AM
The 6 speed is different enough that the Saker parts don't work with it. If I remember correctly it (the 6 speed) has a fairly useless 1st gear - to low to be of any use in a light car.
I am sure that a decent machinist that has access to splining tools could make the adapter sleeve to convert the 6 speed to 2 wheel drive.
I just got word that my custom drive flanges to allow the use of stock bus axles with the suby 5 speed transaxle have been made. No prices yet.
Posted by: RoninEclipse2G Jun 16 2007, 03:18 PM
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: MZM Jul 25 2007, 01:21 AM
Whats up with the flanges for the vw/914 axle? I have money!
Mike M
Posted by: Porcharu Jul 25 2007, 10:45 AM
Whats up with the flanges for the vw/914 axle? I have money!
Mike M
I wish I knew myself. I sent an email yesterday asking for the price. I hope to know soon.
Steve
Posted by: RS22b Jul 25 2007, 11:43 AM
now this is a thread i will read more of when i get home.
Being that i havent read it, i do have only one question right now. Everything else makes sense to me, but how does the clutch setup work out?
Meaning the mechanical function of you pressing the clutch pedal and the throw out bearing doing its job. Does the fork clear the trunk? Are you running hydraulic or cable and how is it routed?
thx.
_billy
Posted by: Porcharu Jul 27 2007, 10:15 AM
now this is a thread i will read more of when i get home.
Being that i havent read it, i do have only one question right now. Everything else makes sense to me, but how does the clutch setup work out?
Meaning the mechanical function of you pressing the clutch pedal and the throw out bearing doing its job. Does the fork clear the trunk? Are you running hydraulic or cable and how is it routed?
thx.
_billy
Subaru used both cable and hydro clutch setups. I remember the fork on the cable setup hitting the trunk - but it has been a long time so I'm not positive. I was going to run an internal hydro release bearing (inside of the bellhousing) to avoid any hole cutting.
Steve
Posted by: charliew Aug 2 2007, 02:41 PM
Steve and everyone else that has contributed to this thread, thank you very much, I had no idea this transplant has been attempted so far back. I started building a manx style buggy several months back and got interested in a mid engine application and have been studying mainly on nasioc and samba. My son hot rods an STI and I have almost one of every block used since 96 to study. We are trying to make 7500 a bullet proof event. Steve it looks like the pan on your motor is a 2.2. They seem to be about 1 and 1/2 inches deeper than a wrx pan. I have both. I built a 4 and 5/8 deep pan that is wide with swinging gates to control oil slosh on cornering and launch. I used a pan kit from Kennedy and a sbc claimer kit from Speedway Motors for the gates it holds a lot of oil at about the stock level. When you use the various shortened pans they usually run the level higher in the pan. Subie motors are not race motors out of the box. Just like any other production motor, it needs mods to be reliable when it is run at high rpms extensively. There's lots of good stuff on nasioc to help in this regard. It might be a rumor but I read that the early jdm sti transaxles had physically wider gears and better heat treating to withstand abuse on the early racing efforts. I used my son's first header on his sti which was new and very resonable on ebay, and shortened it to within about 5 inches of the block pan rails, now I will need to use a remote filter to keep it all even on the bottom. This is all for the dune buggy, maybe it won't need to be this short on the 914. I found a 75 914 1.8 locally that just was brought to texas from wyoming and colorado. It seems to have virtully no rust. It seems a shame to tear it up. It has 80k on it now. In 91 it had 50k and the motor had about 2k dollars redo and the body about 1k redo in the battery tray area. I have probably ever receipt ever written on it. Every big repair was done at a porsche shop. I just picked up a 96 ej20h motor and tranny with everything to go with it including axles. For the non subies thats twin turbo 260 to 280 hp stock. I am a good fabricater, but twin turbos will be tight. I am interested in your flanges and other stuff as soon as they are available.
Charlie
Posted by: Hydra Aug 3 2007, 06:57 AM
Congrats on your 914 charlie. seems like a great car you've got there.
As much as i like the idea of a suby conversion, performing that on the car you have is IMO quite a shame.
Think twice before doing it, that's an excellent specimen you've got.
Btw, i'm redoing my suby conversion, swapped my N/A JDM EJ20, for a turbocharged EJ20G along with a suby FWD tranny...
Posted by: charliew Aug 5 2007, 10:15 PM
Congrats on your 914 charlie. seems like a great car you've got there.
As much as i like the idea of a suby conversion, performing that on the car you have is IMO quite a shame.
Think twice before doing it, that's an excellent specimen you've got.
Btw, i'm redoing my suby conversion, swapped my N/A JDM EJ20, for a turbocharged EJ20G along with a suby FWD tranny...
I know but it will save a lot of metalwork. I have spent most of my life saving junk and it will be nice to start with a really good shell. If it was a 2.0 or 914/6 or something really special I wouldn't. My son thought it is too nice to cut on also but he won't be the one grinding and welding. I don't have as much time and I want quicker results. It will be a lot of fabbing anyway for all the conversion stuff. I rarely find made up conversion parts that I like. I actually haven't seen any of renegade's stuff in person but I won't even think of buying anything like that without seeing it up close and that probably won't happen. Also I don't think they make a conversion that uses the subie tranny.
Charlie
Posted by: MZM Aug 19 2007, 01:19 PM
Any updates about the axles, engine mounts, driving the cars, etc? My project is in the planning stage for the drivetrain components, so now would be a good time to source the parts needed for a FugiFerdy 914 type R!
Thanks;
Mike McBride
Posted by: Chuck Aug 19 2007, 04:12 PM
[/quote]
Also I don't think they make a conversion that uses the subie tranny.
Charlie
[/quote]
No, they don't. I e-mailed Scott at Renegade and asked about it. He said they thought about it but said that it would not fit and so they passed on the idea. Dana also told me that Renegade passed on it because of the fabrication needed to make it work; they already have beefed up 901s so may as well use what they knew.
I too am anxious for news on the availability of this kit. It is my hope to use a subie transmission with a WRX motor in my car as well.
Posted by: Scott-thundercat Oct 24 2007, 11:54 PM
so i called a machine shop near where i work and found that they can do axle resplining or adapter flanges for a good price. they are fairly busy and so werent interested in a huge ammount of orders but said 30 orders over some time they could probably do. anyhow, my two questions for you all are- has anyone measured the subaru CV shaft and seen if it could fit? i wonder because if all we had to do was respline it (assuming it was a bigger spline section than the 914s) is fairly easy and inexpensive. the shop told me that if it was just a matter of heat treating the subie shafts and lathing them then resplining em, about 150 or so per axle, possibly cheaper possibly more.
they actually build complete custom CV's for the military (extreme use for special forces) that run 1100 an axle, but that is so extreme he said it wouldnt be near that to build an axle for moderate power and real world useage.
the other option was to build a CV adapter plate to fit either the 914 CV shaft or the 944 CV shaft, he said no problem, bring in both axles and how long it has to be and he can make em, similar price to the 150 (he said likely cheaper if it's a simple design).
my main thing is- does anyone have exact measurements for the subie output stubs (and inside diameter of the oil seals on em)? and also the lengths between them and the wheel bearing on the 914? I've found some specs on 914 axles, but if anyone has ready facts i'd appreciate it. i'm slowly cobbling together things for this swap and saw that it had kind of stalled on the board....
Scott
Posted by: charliew Oct 25 2007, 09:37 PM
so i called a machine shop near where i work and found that they can do axle resplining or adapter flanges for a good price. they are fairly busy and so werent interested in a huge ammount of orders but said 30 orders over some time they could probably do. anyhow, my two questions for you all are- has anyone measured the subaru CV shaft and seen if it could fit? i wonder because if all we had to do was respline it (assuming it was a bigger spline section than the 914s) is fairly easy and inexpensive. the shop told me that if it was just a matter of heat treating the subie shafts and lathing them then resplining em, about 150 or so per axle, possibly cheaper possibly more.
they actually build complete custom CV's for the military (extreme use for special forces) that run 1100 an axle, but that is so extreme he said it wouldnt be near that to build an axle for moderate power and real world useage.
the other option was to build a CV adapter plate to fit either the 914 CV shaft or the 944 CV shaft, he said no problem, bring in both axles and how long it has to be and he can make em, similar price to the 150 (he said likely cheaper if it's a simple design).
my main thing is- does anyone have exact measurements for the subie output stubs (and inside diameter of the oil seals on em)? and also the lengths between them and the wheel bearing on the 914? I've found some specs on 914 axles, but if anyone has ready facts i'd appreciate it. i'm slowly cobbling together things for this swap and saw that it had kind of stalled on the board....
Scott
Hi Scott, It's nice that you are trying to work this out. The only problem that I can see is that the overall length will be different for each conversion because the motor and tranny can be put in many different positions. The general idea is good but you will need to make your own measurements for your application. As you have been reading Porscharu has already fabbed up a prototype flange to take the subie axles but the machine shop fizzled. I haven't gotten that far yet to study the possibilities but I'm sure others have.
Charlie
Posted by: Porcharu Oct 25 2007, 11:16 PM
That someone is ME. The actual length of the adapter/axle is not that big of a deal as long as the engine is in the "correct" location - IE centered on the axle centerline. I am still working on getting someone to make these dang parts.
Steve
so i called a machine shop near where i work and found that they can do axle resplining or adapter flanges for a good price. they are fairly busy and so werent interested in a huge ammount of orders but said 30 orders over some time they could probably do. anyhow, my two questions for you all are- has anyone measured the subaru CV shaft and seen if it could fit? i wonder because if all we had to do was respline it (assuming it was a bigger spline section than the 914s) is fairly easy and inexpensive. the shop told me that if it was just a matter of heat treating the subie shafts and lathing them then resplining em, about 150 or so per axle, possibly cheaper possibly more.
they actually build complete custom CV's for the military (extreme use for special forces) that run 1100 an axle, but that is so extreme he said it wouldnt be near that to build an axle for moderate power and real world useage.
the other option was to build a CV adapter plate to fit either the 914 CV shaft or the 944 CV shaft, he said no problem, bring in both axles and how long it has to be and he can make em, similar price to the 150 (he said likely cheaper if it's a simple design).
my main thing is- does anyone have exact measurements for the subie output stubs (and inside diameter of the oil seals on em)? and also the lengths between them and the wheel bearing on the 914? I've found some specs on 914 axles, but if anyone has ready facts i'd appreciate it. i'm slowly cobbling together things for this swap and saw that it had kind of stalled on the board....
Scott
Hi Scott, It's nice that you are trying to work this out. The only problem that I can see is that the overall length will be different for each conversion because the motor and tranny can be put in many different positions. The general idea is good but you will need to make your own measurements for your application. Someone has already fabbed up a prototype flange to take the subie axles but the machine shop fizzled. I haven't gotten that far yet to study the possibilities but I'm sure others have.
Charlie
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 6 2007, 05:22 PM
wahoo, finally!! Must be xmas - Subie/ 914 adaptor!!!!!!
I was checking my email and what do I see? Something from the shop that I had given up on.
"Steve, after many backwards updates from our manufacturer (prototypes they've proven slowest at!, but their knowledge and skill I can't step away from) I'm VERY happy to tell you they're done"
I am supposed to have pictures and prices Friday. I will post them once I have them.
Finally after over a year - the magic part is completed!! I guess I will have to start working on the car again.
Posted by: Zaney Dec 6 2007, 05:39 PM
wahoo, finally!! Must be xmas - Subie/ 914 adaptor!!!!!!
I was checking my email and what do I see? Something from the shop that I had given up on.
"Steve, after many backwards updates from our manufacturer (prototypes they've proven slowest at!, but their knowledge and skill I can't step away from) I'm VERY happy to tell you they're done"
I am supposed to have pictures and prices Friday. I will post them once I have them.
Finally after over a year - the magic part is completed!! I guess I will have to start working on the car again.
The Golden goose has laid the golden egg!!!
I will be a supporter and a customer when the time comes!
Thanks for leading the Charge!
Nate
Posted by: charliew Dec 7 2007, 07:32 PM
wahoo, finally!! Must be xmas - Subie/ 914 adaptor!!!!!!
I was checking my email and what do I see? Something from the shop that I had given up on.
"Steve, after many backwards updates from our manufacturer (prototypes they've proven slowest at!, but their knowledge and skill I can't step away from) I'm VERY happy to tell you they're done"
I am supposed to have pictures and prices Friday. I will post them once I have them.
Finally after over a year - the magic part is completed!! I guess I will have to start working on the car again.
The Golden goose has laid the golden egg!
I will be a supporter and a customer when the time comes!
Thanks for leading the Charge!
Nate
Me too probably.
Charlie
Posted by: atsealevel914 Dec 9 2007, 07:58 PM
This is awesome news. Ive been following this effort since the begining. I need a set of these adaptors as soon as they are available. Thank you sir.
Posted by: d914 Dec 9 2007, 08:44 PM
where is the pics??? you know I'll be in.
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 9 2007, 11:30 PM
Nothing yet - he didn't say Friday December the 7th 2007. Hope I hear something in the morning.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Dec 10 2007, 06:38 PM
Steve, will you be selling the axle assemblies too?
Posted by: toon1 Dec 10 2007, 09:39 PM
What are the gear ratio's of the subie tranny? I would suspect they are taller that the 914.
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 11 2007, 02:22 AM
Steve, will you be selling the axle assemblies too?
The axle assemblies are just stock VW Bus axles. Custom axles were one of the things I wanted to avoid at almost any cost. If you use the 944 stub axles the bus axles assemblies will just bolt in. If you want to retain the stock 914 stubs (or reuse your redrilled stuff) all you need to do is pop off the outer CV add a small ring spacer (I will make these for a few $) and slip it onto the bus axle.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 12 2007, 12:00 PM
Here they are!!!
No pricing yet, but I can guess they will not be cheap.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 12 2007, 02:32 PM
What are the gear ratio's of the subie tranny? I would suspect they are taller that the 914.
Look here for Subi gear ration stuff. http://www.rallispec.com/Subaru%20Gear%20Chart.htm
And here for Porsche ratioshttp://members.rennlist.com/chuxter/901&915ratios.htm
I posted this a while ago.
Here are the "way to tall gears"
US WRX (stock tire 205/55-16) Tire circumference is calculated
Gear Ratio Final drive Total ratio Tire Circ. Rev./Mile
1st 3.454 3.9 13.4706 78.15639 10920.38
2nd 1.947 3.9 7.5933 78.15639 6155.753
3rd 1.366 3.9 5.3274 78.15639 4318.828
4th 0.972 3.9 3.7908 78.15639 3073.134
5th 0.738 3.9 2.8782 78.15639 2333.306
I don't have the 901 ratios handy but I remember they were pretty close if you have the 4.11 or 4.44 final drive in the Suby. I think many of the Legacy FWD had taller gears (3.7 final drive)
The NA small engine (like 1.8l) transmissions had the "better" gear ratios (closer and lower final drive)
Posted by: charliew Dec 12 2007, 02:47 PM
Here they are!!!
No pricing yet, but I can guess they will not be cheap.
Steve what is the black coating? They really look nice. When will they be available as just a set? I will need to find longer axles to go with them but don't have the length figgured yet.
Charliew
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 12 2007, 03:01 PM
Here they are!!!
No pricing yet, but I can guess they will not be cheap.
Steve what is the black coating? They really look nice. When will they be available as just a set? I will need to find longer axles to go with them but don't have the length figgured yet.
Charliew
I don't kwow what the black coating is, probably a rust inhibitor or that gunmetal bluing stuff. That is a picture that the shop emailed me, I havn't seen the parts myself.
Why do you need longer axles?
Steve
Posted by: GS Guy Dec 12 2007, 04:06 PM
The black coating is probably a black oxide treatment.
The flanges look Great!
What holds them onto the splined inner stub? Circlip?
Jeff
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 12 2007, 04:53 PM
The black coating is probably a black oxide treatment.
The flanges look Great!
What holds them onto the splined inner stub? Circlip?
Jeff
I think you are right, couldn't think of that term before posting. The flanges are held on with a roll pin (a big one) driven thru the flange and the stub axle.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 12 2007, 06:42 PM
I got the pricing from the shop. I am paying $575 for the first pair. If I can get buyers for 5 sets the price will be $495 including shipping within the US. Delivery will be 3-4 weeks but I would plan on twice that much time.
Steve
Posted by: atsealevel914 Dec 12 2007, 10:53 PM
I got the pricing from the shop. I am paying $575 for the first pair. If I can get buyers for 5 sets the price will be $495 including shipping within the US. Delivery will be 3-4 weeks but I would plan on twice that much time.
Steve
Im definately in, when can i send you the money?
Posted by: d914 Dec 13 2007, 08:16 AM
I'm in.....
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 13 2007, 03:40 PM
Some details on the flanges.
"Turned from aircraft quality chromoly billet (4340) then vacuum heat treated and
chryogenically treated to -300F for maximum strength and toughness"
Posted by: d914 Dec 13 2007, 04:52 PM
go over my options on the cvs again, i know boring,,, I'm re-using the -4 pieces, swing arm already done and I have brand new 914 cv's for outboard.
bus or 944 inboard, 930's??, and the spacer for the 914 cv??
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 13 2007, 06:29 PM
go over my options on the cvs again, i know boring,,, I'm re-using the -4 pieces, swing arm already done and I have brand new 914 cv's for outboard.
bus or 944 inboard, 930's??, and the spacer for the 914 cv??
Go back to page 22 and take a look an the "hybrid axle"
Magic flange -> bus or 944 cv -> bus axle -> 4mm cv spacer -> 914-4 outer cv. Done.
930 cv's use a different spline count and are 108mm in diameter (I think) the bus and 944 are 100mm. It would be pretty simple to make a 100mm to 108 mm adapter plate if you really wanted to use the 930 cv's. If you want I can get a price on making a set for 930cv's - hopefully would take less than a year.
Steve
Posted by: d914 Dec 13 2007, 09:11 PM
no I'm good....got a pic of the spacer and $$
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 14 2007, 06:32 PM
If you want to get on the list for the first buy just PM me. I will wait until we have 5 pairs sold then order. If I can get more than 5 orders the price will go down.
Posted by: charliew Dec 14 2007, 07:12 PM
[quote name='Porcharu' date='Dec 12 2007, 03:01 PM' post='976265']
[quote name='charliew' post='976262' date='Dec 12 2007, 12:47 PM']
[quote name='Porcharu' post='976209' date='Dec 12 2007, 01:00 PM']
Here they are!!!
No pricing yet, but I can guess they will not be cheap.
[/quote]
Steve what is the black coating? They really look nice. When will they be available as just a set? I will need to find longer axles to go with them but don't have the length figgured yet.
Charliew
[/quote
I don't kwow what the black coating is, probably a rust inhibitor or that gunmetal bluing stuff. That is a picture that the shop emailed me, I havn't seen the parts myself.
Why do you need longer axles?
Steve
[/quote]
I'm going to try to move the motor further forward than the "straight axle position" and also up higher in the body I think. Anyway I'm in for the adapters, maybe we can get 10 or more sets and a little cheaper price.
Charliew
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 14 2007, 11:02 PM
[/quote]
I'm going to try to move the motor further forward than the "straight axle position" and also up higher in the body I think. Anyway I'm in for the adapters, maybe we can get 10 or more sets and a little cheaper price.
Charliew
[/quote]
Any higher up than I have the engine mounted and you will be cutting into the body. Longer axles should be a non issue with the huge aftermarket of buggy parts.
Steve
Posted by: charliew Dec 15 2007, 09:09 PM
[quote name='Porcharu' date='Dec 14 2007, 11:02 PM' post='977083']
[/quote]
I'm going to try to move the motor further forward than the "straight axle position" and also up higher in the body I think. Anyway I'm in for the adapters, maybe we can get 10 or more sets and a little cheaper price.
Charliew
[/quote]
Any higher up than I have the engine mounted and you will be cutting into the body. Longer axles should be a non issue with the huge aftermarket of buggy parts.
Steve
[/quote]
I will probably make a removable floor for the front part of the trunk and also I would like to make a rear flipping and swinging down trunk lid to make working on the motor and tranny easier. Theres a really nice v8 black conversion that uses one. I hope he sends me a little info on it to help get me started on the mechanism. Let me know when you need the money for the great adapters.
Charliew
Posted by: d914 Dec 15 2007, 09:27 PM
bmw hood hinges mounted out back has been done, can we say pick and pull
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 15 2007, 11:45 PM
[/quote]
I will probably make a removable floor for the front part of the trunk and also I would like to make a rear flipping and swinging down trunk lid to make working on the motor and tranny easier. Theres a really nice v8 black conversion that uses one. I hope he sends me a little info on it to help get me started on the mechanism. Let me know when you need the money for the great adapters.
Charliew
[/quote]
Like this one? He is in the bay area somewhere. I saw this at Mikes BBQ during the heat wave two summers ago. I remember when I left at 3 P.M. my trucks temp gauge said 114 degrees outside temp and it hit 117 on the way home!
Steve
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Zaney Dec 16 2007, 12:40 AM
Steve,
Just wondering if the conversion 'Kit' is still your goal or if the Flanges are the final project?
Awesome job on spearheading this project!!!
Nate
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 16 2007, 02:02 AM
Steve,
Just wondering if the conversion 'Kit' is still your goal or if the Flanges are the final project?
Awesome job on spearheading this project!!!
Nate
Kit is still the final goal however I would jump on the flanges while you can as I don't have much time to work on the kit at this point in my life. I hope to get it done by summer, but I have a lot on my plate right now.
Steve
Posted by: Beachbum Dec 16 2007, 08:56 PM
hey guys, the white 914 with the body kit in the above picture is my car, i bought it a couple months back as a roller, the prevous owner had a SBC in her but after reading the info on the subaru engine and trans setup this just looks to cool to pass up, im a pretty good mechanic but having some kind of kit with all the bits and pieces already put together would be the ticket, looking forword to further progress, thanks
Posted by: Zaney Dec 19 2007, 07:13 PM
Here is another TRICK idea that needs to be tinkered with to work in a teener with a subie tranny!
Sequential shifting system for your car
It's our pleasure to introduce a revolutionary product - The Sequential Shifting System
The Sequential Shifting System (SSS) replaces the standard H system for in-line sequential shifting. Installation is very easy - there is no need for the original body, gearbox or interior intervention.
The SSS will enable you to:
1) change gears without lateral movement
2) change gears fast, smooth and accurately
3) view selected gear on the Digital Indicator
The SSS is:
1) compatible with a standard synchronised gear box as well as with a non-synchronised racing dog box.
2) available for Mitsubishi, Subaru and Porsche.
go check out: http://www.kaps.cz/zavodni.php?setlang=eng&page=onas
Come on all you Mech Engineers! Put your thinking caps on! 
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 20 2007, 12:46 AM
That might be simpler (more simple) mechanically than a cable shift. I wonder how the feel would be with servos doing the shifting for you. I know my controls friend would love to play with something like this.
I was thinking of using a "muscle car" style shifter (the ones that used external rods to the transmission) for the racing version of the cable shift. You would need a 6 speed shifter for the suby trans. One cable would go direct from the shifter to the shift forks for 1-2, 3-4 and 5-R. You would need 3 cables total and no levers/selectors. The only downside is cost as the shifter is about $400.
Here is another TRICK idea that needs to be tinkered with to work in a teener with a subie tranny!
Sequential shifting system for your car
It's our pleasure to introduce a revolutionary product - The Sequential Shifting System
The Sequential Shifting System (SSS) replaces the standard H system for in-line sequential shifting. Installation is very easy - there is no need for the original body, gearbox or interior intervention.
The SSS will enable you to:
1) change gears without lateral movement
2) change gears fast, smooth and accurately
3) view selected gear on the Digital Indicator
The SSS is:
1) compatible with a standard synchronised gear box as well as with a non-synchronised racing dog box.
2) available for Mitsubishi, Subaru and Porsche.
go check out: http://www.kaps.cz/zavodni.php?setlang=eng&page=onas
Come on all you Mech Engineers! Put your thinking caps on!
Posted by: racerx9146 Dec 20 2007, 10:35 AM
Been watching this thread. I have a (non internet) friend who has a 914 that he wants to put Subaru Power in. The availability of the Subie CV flanges will definately affect our choice on what tranny to use. Are you at the order stage yet?
Also without consulting me he has purchased a JDM EJ20 TTw/tranny via evilbay. Any ideas on the major challenges of using this powerplant. From what I read its a sequential turbo setup (inline) If he gets the ECU and enough of the harness I imagine its gonna be fun getting wiring diagrams for a JFD version.
Since I have a 914-6 and also a Subaru powered (EJ33) Vanagon I am his technical "expert" 
thanks John Daron
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 20 2007, 11:15 PM
Yes we are at the order point. Please PM me telling me you want a pair.
Steve.
When it looks good I will ask for a deposit and order the flanges.
Been watching this thread. I have a (non internet) friend who has a 914 that he wants to put Subaru Power in. The availability of the Subie CV flanges will definately affect our choice on what tranny to use. Are you at the order stage yet?
Also without consulting me he has purchased a JDM EJ20 TTw/tranny via evilbay. Any ideas on the major challenges of using this powerplant. From what I read its a sequential turbo setup (inline) If he gets the ECU and enough of the harness I imagine its gonna be fun getting wiring diagrams for a JFD version.
Since I have a 914-6 and also a Subaru powered (EJ33) Vanagon I am his technical "expert"
thanks John Daron
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 31 2007, 02:11 AM
We came home from our vacation today and I found a nice little box with a pair of flanges in it. The parts look great. I will post pictures in the morning.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 31 2007, 05:16 PM
Here are the pictures!
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 31 2007, 05:17 PM
Another.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 31 2007, 05:19 PM
And the money shot. I have 5 people that have PM'ed me with orders so far. I will be ordering very soon. If you want in on the deal PM me.
Steve
Before anyone asks - that is a junkyard Bus cv and I realize it is nasty and the trans is dirty.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: jimkelly Dec 31 2007, 05:28 PM
very nice
Posted by: atsealevel914 Jan 1 2008, 10:22 PM
Steve, you have a pm.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Jan 10 2008, 05:50 PM
So, does anyone have any idea how were gonna get our speedos to work with the subaru transaxles? Im using the FWD tranny from the legacy. it has a mechanical shaft for the speedo. probably something can be done with the later AWD trannys which have electonic type speedo sensors. I wonder if I can put The electric sensor from the AWD into my FWD? Anyone? 
Posted by: charliew Jan 10 2008, 06:38 PM
So, does anyone have any idea how were gonna get our speedos to work with the subaru transaxles? Im using the FWD tranny from the legacy. it has a mechanical shaft for the speedo. probably something can be done with the later AWD trannys which have electonic type speedo sensors. I wonder if I can put The electric sensor from the AWD into my FWD? Anyone?
Ok, I'm not really sure yet if an aftermarket speedo will work on the electric drive subies. If it's mechanical drive there is a little gear reduction drive that you can change gear ratios in to adjust the speedometer output shaft to the correct revolutions per mile. It usually fits on the tranny where the speedometer cable attaches on american trannys and then the cable attaches to the reduction assembly. I've used them on 4wd stuff before. I don't know if it will fit the subie but I bet you could figger it out.
On the electric speedo we need to know how many pulses per revolution of the output shaft the subie has. Then see what the aftermarket can adjust to. I haven't gotten around to this problem yet. Hope you master this before I have to. I'm pretty sure the vss kit that small car sells only keeps the ecu happy and stops cells, I don't think it is the correct number of pulses for the speedometer. The electric is probably a hall device, which means it will have a wheel on the output shaft with a bunch of protrusions that pass by the pickup sensor. The mechanical one will have a gear on the main shaft to mesh with the gear that goes to the cable.
Charliew
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 10 2008, 06:39 PM
So, does anyone have any idea how were gonna get our speedos to work with the subaru transaxles? Im using the FWD tranny from the legacy. it has a mechanical shaft for the speedo. probably something can be done with the later AWD trannys which have electonic type speedo sensors. I wonder if I can put The electric sensor from the AWD into my FWD? Anyone?
I just went out in the rain to look at my AWD trans (it's in a shed) the sender looks like it will fit in the FWD trans. It seems to be just stuck into the trans but I can't pull it out - and I don't want to destroy it just to see if it comes out or not. I need to find my service manual scans and they were on my old PC that lost the HD controller. I plan on using this sender and an electronic speedo installed in the stock speedo housing. If that doesn't work all we need to do is make a simple magnet setup on one of the flanges and a VDO pickup, or you have a speedo shop make you a custom speedo with a 914 end and a suby end.
Steve.
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 10 2008, 06:43 PM
If you want in on the flange buy get your checks in the mail. I have to pay the shop upfront before they will start work on these parts. I can't afford to buy 5 sets and "hope" that they sell.
I have 3 checks so far. If you have sent me a check and I have not got back to you PM me.
Steve
Posted by: atsealevel914 Jan 10 2008, 07:51 PM
So, does anyone have any idea how were gonna get our speedos to work with the subaru transaxles? Im using the FWD tranny from the legacy. it has a mechanical shaft for the speedo. probably something can be done with the later AWD trannys which have electonic type speedo sensors. I wonder if I can put The electric sensor from the AWD into my FWD? Anyone?
Ok, I'm not really sure yet if an aftermarket speedo will work on the electric drive subies. If it's mechanical drive there is a little gear reduction drive that you can change gear ratios in to adjust the speedometer output shaft to the correct revolutions per mile. It usually fits on the tranny where the speedometer cable attaches on american trannys and then the cable attaches to the reduction assembly. I've used them on 4wd stuff before. I don't know if it will fit the subie but I bet you could figger it out.
On the electric speedo we need to know how many pulses per revolution of the output shaft the subie has. Then see what the aftermarket can adjust to. I haven't gotten around to this problem yet. Hope you master this before I have to. I'm pretty sure the vss kit that small car sells only keeps the ecu happy and stops cells, I don't think it is the correct number of pulses for the speedometer. The electric is probably a hall device, which means it will have a wheel on the output shaft with a bunch of protrusions that pass by the pickup sensor. The mechanical one will have a gear on the main shaft to mesh with the gear that goes to the cable.
Charliew
,
So, does anyone have any idea how were gonna get our speedos to work with the subaru transaxles? Im using the FWD tranny from the legacy. it has a mechanical shaft for the speedo. probably something can be done with the later AWD trannys which have electonic type speedo sensors. I wonder if I can put The electric sensor from the AWD into my FWD? Anyone?
I just went out in the rain to look at my AWD trans (it's in a shed) the sender looks like it will fit in the FWD trans. It seems to be just stuck into the trans but I can't pull it out - and I don't want to destroy it just to see if it comes out or not. I need to find my service manual scans and they were on my old PC that lost the HD controller. I plan on using this sender and an electronic speedo installed in the stock speedo housing. If that doesn't work all we need to do is make a simple magnet setup on one of the flanges and a VDO pickup, or you have a speedo shop make you a custom speedo with a 914 end and a suby end.
Steve.
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 10 2008, 10:55 PM
I mean drive by wire speedo. If the cable works - great if not we can use the new stuff.
Steve
Posted by: GS Guy Jan 11 2008, 06:15 AM
You guys might want to contact Speedometer Solutions in WI. They apparently can do pretty much anything with any kind of speedometer/transmission output (gear change boxes, mechanical to electric converters, etc.). I just got a converter that switches my 914 mechanical speedometer output to electrical - no speedo cable! Super nice die cast housing, custom fit, excellent quality!
1-414-463-6660 8-4 CST
1-414-463-6661 FAX
www.speedometersolutions.com
info@speedometersolutions.com
Jeff
Posted by: charliew Jan 11 2008, 10:38 AM
You guys might want to contact Speedometer Solutions in WI. They apparently can do pretty much anything with any kind of speedometer/transmission output (gear change boxes, mechanical to electric converters, etc.). I just got a converter that switches my 914 mechanical speedometer output to electrical - no speedo cable! Super nice die cast housing, custom fit, excellent quality!
1-414-463-6660 8-4 CST
1-414-463-6661 FAX
www.speedometersolutions.com
info@speedometersolutions.com
Jeff
Thanks Jeff, I was hoping someone had already crossed this bridge. Thank you veeeery much. This probably saved several hours research.
Ok, I called Roger at speedometer solutions and here's the deal, I told him I have a 02 wrx tranny and it has a sensor with three wires and I have a 96 tt tranny I hope to use that only has two wires. He thinks the three wire will be 1 power, 2ground, 3 signal. He says I can put a meter on the wires with the car jacked up and check the output on the leads and probably determine what the type of sender it is. It will be ac volts cause it hasn't gone through a rectifier (my assumption). It could be reed which is not useable or magnetic pickup (coil type which some call it a generator) He thinks autometer is the easiest to work with, it is the most adjustable. We may not need anything but schematics. I told him I read somewhere that someone said the sender went to the speedometer first and then the ecu to take care of vss feedback on the obd2 stuff (as the 02 wrx is) but maybe the 96 (2 wire) did not do this. On the senders he got a little over me on some being pnp and npn as in transisters. I think I have the ecu pinouts somewhere on the 96 tt ecu. I can use the small car vss to take care of that when I use the 02 wrx ecu (I'm going to try to do open ecu) and then just have the stock 96 sender drive a autometer speedo that bigmark designs will make to fit in the 914 stock speedo with a new face and 160 mph numbers. At first glance this seems pretty straight forward.
I sent Big Mark Designs ( he has a aol web page) a email about making a 914 speedo with the autometer 160 electric speedo inside.
Charliew
Posted by: marks914 Jan 11 2008, 02:04 PM
I'd be willing to give building one a shot. If you can find one that works, I can find a way to get it to fit. The autometer speedos have a LCD odometer, I do not know if that matters or not to any one. A 3 3/8 diameter gauge will fit into the 914 housing.
The autometer speedos start at around $170, so the price would probably be around $100-150 to install it, new matching faceplate and 914 needle. I would also need a speedo core as well.
Mark
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 13 2008, 12:55 PM
One last time to get your order in for the magic flanges!!! I have 3 checks and one more "in the mail" and 2 more "want to buy." Once I hit 5 checks I will order the parts. If all I get is the 3 checks I will just order the 3 pairs and eat the higher cost.
The next buy (if there is one) WILL cost more so get in now if you want them. The "new" price for 1 pair will be at least $575 (that is if I order only 1 pair from the shop)
Steve
If you want in on the flange buy get your checks in the mail. I have to pay the shop upfront before they will start work on these parts. I can't afford to buy 5 sets and "hope" that they sell.
I have 3 checks so far. If you have sent me a check and I have not got back to you PM me.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 14 2008, 06:35 PM
Here is some info from Matthew Monson on the speedometer senders in the Suby transmissions.
The tranny doesn't care what kind of sender. You can mix and match early and late. It's threaded in there. However what does care is the engine and ECU. As long as you have a late ECU and wiring harness that uses the electronic speedo, you'll be fine.
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 15 2008, 10:01 AM
What's next? Mounts, shifter, clutch linkage, starter?
Posted by: Zaney Jan 15 2008, 07:00 PM
We are sending positive vibes your way!
Awesome job again on spearheading the flanges!!
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 15 2008, 11:15 PM
What's next? Mounts, shifter, clutch linkage, starter?
Starter - it's the easiest. I just ordered one to mess with.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 18 2008, 12:06 AM
I changed my mind and started working on the mounts 
I mocked up the main cross bar today and I am not sure I like it. Just a straight piece of tubing running between the stock motor mounts. It flexed about 1/8 of an inch when I stand on it - it's 1-1/2" 0.083 wall tubing (it might be the next thickness up.) I am considering going up to 2" for this one tube, need to run the numbers and see how much that will help.
Steve
We have 8 buyers for the flanges plus my extra pair (7 have sent checks) the flange order is ON
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 21 2008, 01:45 PM
I am waiting for the exact cost from the shop for 10 sets of flanges, then the check goes into the mail.
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 22 2008, 01:27 AM
I got the reply today. The check goes out Tuesday. 10 sets of flanges are on the way. Thanks everyone!
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2008, 12:04 AM
I got the reply today. The check goes out Tuesday. 10 sets of flanges are on the way. Thanks everyone!
Steve
The check is in the mail!
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 23 2008, 06:04 PM
I just looked up the price of the steel used for the flanges after having a case of sticker shock from buying a few pieces of tubing at the local steel place. It looks like about $110 of 4340 (that stuff is about $220 a foot in 4.5" diameter!) is used in every pair of flanges - maybe a little bit more.
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 30 2008, 08:43 PM
steve
what did you decide on - to use converted awd trans or fwd trans?
jim
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 30 2008, 09:26 PM
Both!
steve
what did you decide on - to use converted awd trans or fwd trans?
jim
Posted by: Chevota79 Feb 3 2008, 02:56 PM
Porcharu i was wondering if you have a picture of the shifter on the subaru transmission not the shifter in the car but the location at which the transmission linkage is shifted I am building a cable shifter for this setup for school and any pictures would be greatly appreciated. Also if you could tell me how the linkage needs to move to get into each gear.
Thanks
Josh
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 3 2008, 04:14 PM
Take a look at the very first picture in this thread. The shift linkage is on the top rear of the transmission. The shaft needs to move in and out and rotate to select gears. I an not sure of what movement selects what gear. I have not got that part of the project - yet.
Steve
Porcharu i was wondering if you have a picture of the shifter on the subaru transmission not the shifter in the car but the location at which the transmission linkage is shifted I am building a cable shifter for this setup for school and any pictures would be greatly appreciated. Also if you could tell me how the linkage needs to move to get into each gear.
Thanks
Josh
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 6 2008, 06:18 PM
How about an oil pan? I can get these pan sump kits at the following prices. They are made in Australia so the shipping is high. I am trying to buy the design to make it here.
5 pans @ $85 US each ---$425
Shipping 1st class air $195
Seamail (about 8-10 weeks) $115
Total ---- 5 pans shipped seamail US $540
I am waiting on a new quote for the shipping - these were from last year and a quote for 10 kits. These prices are delivered to my house, add shipping to you or send your clean oil pan to me and I can cut and weld it for you at a fair price. I don't know the price as I have not done it yet.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Zaney Feb 7 2008, 12:31 AM
How about an oil pan? I can get these pan sump kits at the following prices. They are made in Australia so the shipping is high. I am trying to buy the design to make it here.
5 pans @ $85 US each ---$425
Shipping 1st class air $195
Seamail (about 8-10 weeks) $115
Total ---- 5 pans shipped seamail US $540
I am waiting on a new quote for the shipping - these were from last year and a quote for 10 kits. These prices are delivered to my house, add shipping to you or send your clean oil pan to me and I can cut and weld it for you at a fair price. I don't know the price as I have not done it yet.
Is this a mid engine specific oil pan or just a short sump model?
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 7 2008, 12:43 AM
Short sump model. Mid engine doesn't really matter.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 15 2008, 02:57 PM
Update on the flange order!
"Steve, all turning's now done so the milling/splining/treating/coating remains. I'm told 7-10 days. I'd think more likely 2 weeks but I keep pushing 'em"
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 15 2008, 02:59 PM
How about an oil pan? I can get these pan sump kits at the following prices. They are made in Australia so the shipping is high. I am trying to buy the design to make it here.
5 pans @ $85 US each ---$425
Shipping 1st class air $195
Seamail (about 8-10 weeks) $115
Total ---- 5 pans shipped seamail US $540
I am waiting on a new quote for the shipping - these were from last year and a quote for 10 kits. These prices are delivered to my house, add shipping to you or send your clean oil pan to me and I can cut and weld it for you at a fair price. I don't know the price as I have not done it yet.
I just ordered one pan kit to evaluate. $170 with air shipping via paypal. I should have it in a few weeks.
Steve
Posted by: racerx9146 Feb 25 2008, 03:30 PM
Any updates on the flanges?
All does anyone know a good source of Shifter control cables. I find the usual boat related stuff on Google but I thought somebody may know a more automotive related supplier?
thanks John Daron
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 25 2008, 04:42 PM
http://www.mcmaster.com/
search - push pull cable
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 25 2008, 05:56 PM
Any updates on the flanges?
All does anyone know a good source of Shifter control cables. I find the usual boat related stuff on Google but I thought somebody may know a more automotive related supplier?
thanks John Daron
See post 489.
Look at California push-pull for cables.Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 25 2008, 08:09 PM
Something new. Dust covers for the magic flanges - made by member 'spunone'. He will sell these for $20 a pair - PM him for payment info. The parts will be shipped to me and I will ship them with your flanges. Check out his normal product - gauge ring covers - they are amazing. The gold part is the stock Subaru part removed from a CV flange. This part is not available separately from an axle assembly. If you don't have a pair of axles this is the only way to get dust covers for the magic flanges.
Steve
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 25 2008, 08:10 PM
Two more pics. PM spunone if you want these. $20 a pair
Steve
Attached image(s)
Posted by: charliew Feb 28 2008, 04:01 PM
How about an oil pan? I can get these pan sump kits at the following prices. They are made in Australia so the shipping is high. I am trying to buy the design to make it here.
5 pans @ $85 US each ---$425
Shipping 1st class air $195
Seamail (about 8-10 weeks) $115
Total ---- 5 pans shipped seamail US $540
I am waiting on a new quote for the shipping - these were from last year and a quote for 10 kits. These prices are delivered to my house, add shipping to you or send your clean oil pan to me and I can cut and weld it for you at a fair price. I don't know the price as I have not done it yet.
I just ordered one pan kit to evaluate. $170 with air shipping via paypal. I should have it in a few weeks.
Steve
Steve I have built two big pans for my and my son's subie motors. My research has shown that the 04 usdm sti runs the oil higher in the pan to have more volume than the 02 wrx. The sti just uses a shorter dip stick. I bought a pan kit from kennedy and made a short pan for my dune buggy motor. It's up to the fabber to set the depth. I chose 4.625 on the dune buggy pan. You can un-braze or siver solder the pick up cup and shorten the pickup tube to the desired depth and re braze it on. I chose this route after cutting a pickup and rewelding the tube. I didn't like the rough edges inside the tube where it was reconnected. Also the dip stick tube is brazed on the pan and when you cut the pan and start welding the added pieces on the mild steel weld doesn't like the brass around the dip stick tube so keep that in mind. You can stop welding and just braze or silver solder the area around the tube. I want as deep of a pan as I can get on the 914 so I am going to worry with motor position till I decide how much axle angle I want to live with. The sti pan with a "t" looking bottom to clear equal length headers on the sti car came out to almost 8 qt.s with about .186 added to the depth to get more pan to oil pickup clearance. We used a reinforced stock sti pickup. On the short wrx pan for the dune buggy (4.625 depth) with the kennedy pan kit, I have 7 qt.s volume with a wrx dip stick. The pan you have pictures of looks to be about 4.5 inches deep. I would be more with a sti dip stick. I added three swinging gates from some speedway sbc claimer kits to controll slosh on both pans. I would leave about .500 clearance for the pickup to pan clearance if your going to be running high rpms and a 10 or 12mm pump.
I may try to just have mounts going to each side and not cross under the motor to give more room for a pan. I may not need to shift the motor position so much. I know the shifter tube is also in the area. I'm still just planning.
Charliew
Posted by: silver arrow Feb 28 2008, 04:33 PM
When this is finished, could you summorize parts used and where bought? It is very hard to follow over 25 pages with so many good ideas and different solutions popping up. Or maybe we could start a Suby conversion FAQ thread?
Posted by: Zaney Mar 19 2008, 02:25 PM
Monthly bump
Any progress on the tranny mount?
I finally picked up a used/abused 02' WRX 5 speed that is going to get some love before mated with a 2.5 turbo. Andrewtech out of MD sells a Legacy GT 1-3 with OEM WRX 4&5. Supposed to be a good mild upgrade for good $.
Posted by: jimkelly Mar 19 2008, 02:56 PM
i believe steve is gonna kit all the custom parts and sell them himself - i do not know what off the shelf parts he is gonna include in the kit nor probably does he at this point. the key parts are the custom stubs, shift linkage, engine and trans mounts, custom oil pan, custom exhaust, as i currently see it. as sub engine using a sub trans - this is gonna be excellent.
Monthly bump
Any progress on the tranny mount?
I finally picked up a used/abused 02' WRX 5 speed that is going to get some love before mated with a 2.5 turbo. Andrewtech out of MD sells a Legacy GT 1-3 with OEM WRX 4&5. Supposed to be a good mild upgrade for good $.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Mar 20 2008, 08:35 PM
Steve, Hello. Any idea when youre gonna ship the flanges out?
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 20 2008, 10:02 PM
Steve, Hello. Any idea when youre gonna ship the flanges out?
As soon as I get them I will send them out. I am waiting for an update from the shop.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 26 2008, 08:35 PM
Good news! I was told that I should have the parts sometime this week. As soon as I get them I will send them out to those that purchased.
Steve
Posted by: racerx9146 Mar 26 2008, 08:39 PM
Awesome, we will tell you how they hold up after the 25 hours of Thunderhill, assuming we get the car ready
John Daron
Good news! I was told that I should have the parts sometime this week. As soon as I get them I will send them out to those that purchased.
Steve
Posted by: spunone Mar 27 2008, 02:54 PM
Sorry Steve ,,Charlie's 2 sets and yours heading out today UPS forsure allready boxed and by the door.
Posted by: charliew Mar 28 2008, 08:11 AM
I know this has been a long ordeal for you Steve. I really appreciate the effort. Of course a machinist and good welder could accomplish a similiar feat but it will never look as professional or be as exact as these. Also thanks Paul for the nice dust covers. Now if I could just get started. I'm trying to get other projects done in order so to have room to store the parts I remove to sell or save and reinstall. Also I am trying to get some finished to make enough to get a lift and have the space to dedicate for a lift.
Charliew
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 28 2008, 10:48 PM
Looks like sometime this week was today! I have a big heavy box packed with nice parts 
. I will get them packed up this weekend and out to those who purchased on Monday! 
Posted by: charliew Mar 29 2008, 09:10 AM
Was it Tony the tiger who used to say? GRRRREEEAT !!!!
Charliew
Posted by: Zaney Mar 29 2008, 11:22 AM
You RAWK! Thanks again for taking this on! I am excited about possibility of the kit that you are pursuing too!
Unfortunately for me, these cool parts are going to my build up shelf for now.(House projects getting in the way 
)
Awesome Steve!
Posted by: spunone Mar 29 2008, 07:10 PM
You did get the package from UPS I hope ?
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 31 2008, 07:16 PM
Got it today!
Steve
You did get the package from UPS I hope ?
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 31 2008, 07:19 PM
The flanges are on the way! I sent everyone a PM with the tracking #'s except "William Satchwell" - If you are him PM me and I will send you the tracking #. I will send Charlie his 2 sets on Tuesday along with the nice dust covers.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Apr 17 2008, 12:18 AM
My records show that everyone has received the magic flanges.
Any comments on the parts - I think they are pretty nice.
They should as they were made by Rockford (no you can't email them and have them made - I can't and I designed the dang things.)
http://www.rockfordacromatic.com
Steve
Posted by: Travis Neff Apr 17 2008, 11:34 AM
Hey Steve,
If someone would like these in the future, how do we do that?
Posted by: charliew Apr 17 2008, 10:02 PM
I don't think they could be any nicer. I might get them powdercoated though. I don't think the black nitrited finish will hold up as long as powdercoat. I am very happy with them. Glad I got two sets with the nice dust covers. I hope the rest of my car is up to these standards if I ever finish it.
Charliew
Posted by: racerx9146 Apr 17 2008, 10:18 PM
perfect fit, better machining than any OEM manufacturer, what more could we ask for 10/10!!
thanks again John Daron
Posted by: Porcharu Apr 17 2008, 11:10 PM
Start begging Actually just PM me and I will start a new list, I need 10 pairs sold to sell them at the same price.
Steve
Hey Steve,
If someone would like these in the future, how do we do that?
Posted by: atsealevel914 Apr 18 2008, 01:30 PM
The flanges are awsome! Thanks Steve, I greatly appreciate your effort.
Posted by: sotaro Apr 29 2008, 02:25 AM
Hi Steve,
How is your build going? Any closer to the engine subframe? You are sticking with the radiator in the N.A. engine compartment? Is weight balance is similar to a 2.0 stock 914? I understand you are busy, and I am just hoping to benefit from your very rational sounding approach.
thanks!
Posted by: ldscamaross May 3 2008, 01:06 PM
I have also been wondering how everybody has been doing on there projects. Haven’t heard much since the flanges have come. I am hoping to finish my engine cradle this weekend. It is a little more elaborate than what I was thinking of doing in the first place. I have a shop crane that I am using with a lift so the engine mount has been a breeze. The engine just hangs there and I can measure and weld the system up. Im not sure exactly how far forward the transmission is sitting from where the stock tranny was. My tail shaft on the Subaru is just touching the back bumper piece. How is everybody else mounting theirs? I have also decided to cut into the rear trunk. I am only cutting back to where the strut towers stop. It is allowing me fewer problems and a much easier install. I can use the OEM style down pipe on the turbo and have no trouble with the starter. I will also have no problems with the clutch slave cylinder. The engine will also be sitting a little higher so I won’t have to worry about the oil pan. I am going to put a skid plate under the whole thing for protection and also it may help with aerodynamics. I have decided to go with a front mount radiator and put an air to water intercooler in front of the engine. I haven’t seen very many really good ideas of ways to get air through intercoolers. I am planning on using the vf-39 turbo which is the stock turbo on a sti. It makes around 350 horse and 385 tq and I want to be able to keep the air charge cool. Also going to water cooled won’t be much more expensive than air cooled by the time you consider running pipe and labor. I am gong to mount the air to water in the trunk which will give the least amount of volume for the turbo to fill. It will be a little longer than stock but not much. I also just purchased a Cobb access port and street tuner software for it as well. This way I can do all of my tuning and have access to all the safety of the stock computer. I still don’t understand why everybody is going to an aftermarket stand alone system. I know they work well but what is the big problem with the factory system. if your swapping the engine and trans, and using the whole wiring harness which is what I am going to do why not use the oem computer. Yes I am also using the complete Subaru wiring harness and gutting the 914 harness. I am even planning on making some custom hid projector headlights for it. Well that is a bit for now. Are you guys making a lot of progress on your cars?
Posted by: Zaney May 5 2008, 03:13 PM
I have also been wondering how everybody has been doing on there projects. Haven’t heard much since the flanges have come. I am hoping to finish my engine cradle this weekend. It is a little more elaborate than what I was thinking of doing in the first place. I have a shop crane that I am using with a lift so the engine mount has been a breeze. The engine just hangs there and I can measure and weld the system up. Im not sure exactly how far forward the transmission is sitting from where the stock tranny was. My tail shaft on the Subaru is just touching the back bumper piece. How is everybody else mounting theirs? I have also decided to cut into the rear trunk. I am only cutting back to where the strut towers stop. It is allowing me fewer problems and a much easier install. I can use the OEM style down pipe on the turbo and have no trouble with the starter. I will also have no problems with the clutch slave cylinder. The engine will also be sitting a little higher so I won’t have to worry about the oil pan. I am going to put a skid plate under the whole thing for protection and also it may help with aerodynamics. I have decided to go with a front mount radiator and put an air to water intercooler in front of the engine. I haven’t seen very many really good ideas of ways to get air through intercoolers. I am planning on using the vf-39 turbo which is the stock turbo on a sti. It makes around 350 horse and 385 tq and I want to be able to keep the air charge cool. Also going to water cooled won’t be much more expensive than air cooled by the time you consider running pipe and labor. I am gong to mount the air to water in the trunk which will give the least amount of volume for the turbo to fill. It will be a little longer than stock but not much. I also just purchased a Cobb access port and street tuner software for it as well. This way I can do all of my tuning and have access to all the safety of the stock computer. I still don’t understand why everybody is going to an aftermarket stand alone system. I know they work well but what is the big problem with the factory system. if your swapping the engine and trans, and using the whole wiring harness which is what I am going to do why not use the oem computer. Yes I am also using the complete Subaru wiring harness and gutting the 914 harness. I am even planning on making some custom hid projector headlights for it. Well that is a bit for now. Are you guys making a lot of progress on your cars?
Sorry, inquiring minds want to know!
Sounds like an awesome project! Post some pics when you can!
Thanks!
Posted by: ldscamaross May 6 2008, 12:47 AM
i will try to post some tomarrow if i have time. i just aboout have the engine cradle done. it is taking alot longer than i thought. trying to center the engine and tranny and make it level and build mounts takes forever. i have the main structure tac welded and tomarrow morning i am going to finish welding it. the rest of the mount will have to wait for awile because i am going down to southern utah for my summer job.
Posted by: porubi May 7 2008, 08:41 PM
What is the current status of the shallow oil pans?
www.projectaerosol.com/porubi/
I know it's a 911 not a 914.
Posted by: Porcharu May 7 2008, 11:00 PM
I have a kit I purchased from SharpBuilt in Australia. It's not very impressive for the cost. I hope to start working on getting it welded up pretty soon.
Steve
Posted by: EMRoadster Jun 30 2008, 08:06 PM
Start begging
Actually just PM me and I will start a new list, I need 10 pairs sold to sell them at the same price.Steve
Hey Steve,
If someone would like these in the future, how do we do that?
Just checking in to see what the statis is and to make sure I'm on the list for a pair out of the next run of flanges.
Thanks,
Posted by: EMRoadster Nov 11 2008, 11:33 PM
Start begging
Actually just PM me and I will start a new list, I need 10 pairs sold to sell them at the same price.Steve
Hey Steve,
If someone would like these in the future, how do we do that?
Just checking in to see what the statis is and to make sure I'm on the list for a pair out of the next run of flanges.
Thanks,
Checking in to see if there is any updates on the next batch of flanges?
Thanks,
Posted by: Porcharu Nov 18 2008, 12:44 PM
I just got a new quote for a small run of 5 sets of flanges. Unfortunately the cost has gone up and the smaller run costs more per part. For five sets of flanges I will need to add $50/pair to the original price. More sets ordered will slightly lower the cost. New price will be $545 a pair. Who wants in on this order??
Steve
Posted by: EMRoadster Nov 18 2008, 01:23 PM
Count me in for two pairs.
With hopes enough other people join it to help bring the price back down.
Thanks,
Greg Duncan
gduncan2 at comcast.net
Tucson, AZ
I just got a new quote for a small run of 5 sets of flanges. Unfortunately the cost has gone up and the smaller run costs more per part. For five sets of flanges I will need to add $50/pair to the original price. More sets ordered will slightly lower the cost. New price will be $545 a pair. Who wants in on this order??
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 25 2008, 12:01 AM
Something new to add to this thread!!!! I was pointed toward a vendor with a shifter for our cars. I talked to him and I have ordered one shifter kit that will be at my door mid January - I will modify the kit and sent the parts back to him and we will have an official Suby into 914 cable shift trans kit - off the shelf and ready to go. We will also have a group buy!!!!
Steve
Posted by: charliew Dec 26 2008, 03:28 PM
Sounds good to me!!
Posted by: Carlitos Way Dec 26 2008, 05:54 PM
That's a great idea. I hope it comes through. I've already spent the money to have my rod adjusted/modified... but this might be a GREAT way to go for others... or perhaps something to consider as my project has been delayed.
Posted by: ldscamaross Dec 26 2008, 11:02 PM
i would be intrested, i havnt gotten to that point yet. still working on wiring. but lets see what you have come up with
Posted by: Zaney Dec 27 2008, 01:46 PM
Steve,
I am in!
Thanks!
Nate
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 19 2009, 03:46 PM
Here it is sitting in my car, this is about where it will be mounted. It seems just about right. The cables go into the access port and out the old shift rod hole (I will need to add another hole for the second cable.) The whole thing should be easy to hide in a custom console that could be made to look very stock.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 19 2009, 03:47 PM
Does anyone need a set of flanges? I have 3 people that need them but I have a minimum order of 5 sets.
Posted by: strawman Jan 21 2009, 10:52 PM
Has anyone successfully installed a Suby transmission with these flanges yet? If so, can I get some pics & details on how the install went? Thanks in advance!
Posted by: Porcharu Jan 21 2009, 11:54 PM
look here
http://z8.invisionfree.com/ClubNARP/index.php?showforum=20
Lots of detail - not sure if it is for my flanges.
Steve
Posted by: TwinTurbo914 Jan 22 2009, 10:30 AM
Plz sign me up on that list for the flanges, I am currently getting some money together for them but it sound like it will be a little bit before they are ready to order so please let me know.
I have used that supplier for the cable shift setup, we built a 550 spyder replica with a 3.0 911 engine in it with the 901 trans. Very nice quality and it only took about 2 weeks to get it. He makes the cable shift setup for the subaru transmission'ed dune buggies so its just a simple modification of the length of the cables
Posted by: charliew Jan 22 2009, 10:38 AM
TT914, I desagree on the sandrail or the saker type cable location. It's not just the cable length. That is why porscharu is working on the new setup for the 914. The old version has one of the cables I think it's the rotate motion cable coming down at a 45 degree angle at the top and it would not fit under the floor of the 914. He is re-orienting the tranny mounting position of the cables to fit the suby tranny in the 914. That might mean that the piece that goes on the shift shaft will need to be changed because of the hole that attaches it to the shaft will need to be relocated.
Posted by: strawman Feb 28 2009, 05:21 PM
I really like the idea of this setup, but I still can't find a real-world example of a running 914 using these flanges. Anyone?
Posted by: charliew Feb 28 2009, 09:27 PM
Whats not real world about the flanges and vw bus cvs and axles? Or if the bus axles aren't the right length get swayaway axles. I'm going to use 911 stubs and brakes but the trailing arms need to be redone for the wheels offset that I want to use. There is no question about whether the flanges will work with 100mm cvs on the suby tranny.
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 1 2009, 03:02 AM
The reason you don't see a real world example is that no one has finished and posted their project online. I know for a fact that anyone that uses my flanges with bus axles will work perfectly - I guaranty it.
Steve
I really like the idea of this setup, but I still can't find a real-world example of a running 914 using these flanges. Anyone?
Posted by: charliew Mar 2 2009, 01:04 AM
Steve the bus axles may not be the right length if they don't put the motor in the same position you have yours.
Posted by: strawman Mar 2 2009, 07:39 PM
Kewl, I have no doubt that the magic flanges will work perfectly for those using 100mm CVs, and I look forward to seeing a working example -- particularly someone who's successfully implemented a workable cable-shifting solution.
My cable shifter is all worked out in my head, and I've recorded the throws/degree turns of the Suby transmission shifting input rod in a spreadsheet. I've already procured a Toyota MR2 shifter and a Mitsubishi Eclipse shifter for mock-ups, including the shifter cables from the MR2. The MR2 shifter assembly seemingly makes the most sense, since it was used in a mid-engine car and the cable controls point toward the back of the car. However, its throws are looooong. The Eclipse shifter mechanism has slightly shorter throws and seems more robust than the MR2 unit. I'll post some pics in the coming weeks on my build write-up (http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=83031)
Geoff
The reason you don't see a real world example is that no one has finished and posted their project online. I know for a fact that anyone that uses my flanges with bus axles will work perfectly - I guaranty it.
Steve
I really like the idea of this setup, but I still can't find a real-world example of a running 914 using these flanges. Anyone?
Posted by: charliew Mar 2 2009, 10:18 PM
The shifter throws are only long if you make them that way. It's simply a matter of figuring out the relationship between the shifter and the length of the arm on the tranny shaft. Of course the shorter the tranny shaft arm the more effort it will require to shift. On the forward and back motion you can shorten the shifter stick or add a extension on the bottom of the shifter to improve the ratio. You might also check out a fiero shifter.
Posted by: Porcharu May 13 2009, 10:38 PM
Who wants flanges?? I have enough people that have PM'd me to make another order. If you are really ready to write me a check send me a PM. I need to have 5 sets of flanges before I can order another order of parts. I am going to do this order for FREE, I will only charge the actual cost of the parts plus shipping. All of my time is free because I want more people to do the full tilt Suby swap. Once I have 5 confirmed orders I will get an exact quote and get the cost out to you.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu May 16 2009, 01:52 PM
Good news!!!
I will be able to sell the flanges for the original price of $495/pair!!! I just have to invest in 10 sets so I will have 5 sets sitting on my shelf - hopefully they will sell or I will be out a lot of money. My cost for 5 sets was $630/pair because the cost of splining is the same for 10 parts or 20 parts. I will start the ball rolling next week. I will still need prepayment for the parts as I don't have that kind of money laying around.
Steve
Posted by: DBCooper May 16 2009, 03:23 PM
Good news!!!
I will be able to sell the flanges for the original price of $495/pair!!! I just have to invest in 10 sets so I will have 5 sets sitting on my shelf - hopefully they will sell or I will be out a lot of money. My cost for 5 sets was $630/pair because the cost of splining is the same for 10 parts or 20 parts. I will start the ball rolling next week. I will still need prepayment for the parts as I don't have that kind of money laying around.
Steve
PM sent.
Posted by: Porcharu May 16 2009, 10:32 PM
bump
Posted by: EMRoadster May 17 2009, 07:43 AM
Good news!!!
I will be able to sell the flanges for the original price of $495/pair!!! I just have to invest in 10 sets so I will have 5 sets sitting on my shelf - hopefully they will sell or I will be out a lot of money. My cost for 5 sets was $630/pair because the cost of splining is the same for 10 parts or 20 parts. I will start the ball rolling next week. I will still need prepayment for the parts as I don't have that kind of money laying around.
Steve
Steve,
That is GREAT News!!!
PM me the details to send payment.
Thanks,
Posted by: charliew May 18 2009, 10:31 AM
Don't forget you can get the seal dust covers from spunone also.
Posted by: TwinTurbo914 May 18 2009, 11:19 AM
great let me get my finances in order and ill definatly order a set
Posted by: DBCooper May 18 2009, 12:05 PM
Good news!!!
I will be able to sell the flanges for the original price of $495/pair!!! I just have to invest in 10 sets so I will have 5 sets sitting on my shelf - hopefully they will sell or I will be out a lot of money. My cost for 5 sets was $630/pair because the cost of splining is the same for 10 parts or 20 parts. I will start the ball rolling next week. I will still need prepayment for the parts as I don't have that kind of money laying around.
Steve
PM sent.
No PM back with a PayPal address. Did you get my message?
Posted by: Porcharu May 18 2009, 04:40 PM
I am getting ready to order the parts and write a big fat check, looks like I have plenty of buyers - 7 sets so far. If we can get over 10 the price for everyone starts dropping (the splining cost is constant due to the low volume.) PM me and I'll send you the payment details. If I can get the cost down I will just put checks in the boxes when they ship out to you.
Steve
Posted by: jimkelly May 18 2009, 07:53 PM
steve - how close are you to being able to offer an engine mount and the two versions of trans mounts? - jim
Posted by: Porcharu May 20 2009, 05:54 PM
Before I can work on the 914 I need to finish my DD Volvo. I am just getting ready to go out and work on (actually in) the Volvo. I am almost done installing the sound deadening material on the firewall and then a little wiring and I can finally install the heater/AC core and the dash. Once that is done I need to install a full set of urethane suspension bushing and my Koni yellows and it is good to go and I can finally work on the 914.
I have the front of the engine mount done and I have the design for the rear part in my head. The trans mount is going to be easy and I may integrate the shifter mount into that if it looks like a good thing. I dropped the flange off at the shop yesterday so they can have it while the G code is prepared.
Steve
Posted by: EMRoadster May 21 2009, 09:42 PM
Well my check is in the mail... at least it will be Friday morning when I go to work.
I'm allready looking forward for that package on the door step.
Thanks Steve!
I am getting ready to order the parts and write a big fat check, looks like I have plenty of buyers - 7 sets so far. If we can get over 10 the price for everyone starts dropping (the splining cost is constant due to the low volume.) PM me and I'll send you the payment details. If I can get the cost down I will just put checks in the boxes when they ship out to you.
Steve
Posted by: charliew May 23 2009, 02:19 PM
You guys might as well get some of Dr. Evil's bolts to go with these flanges.
Posted by: Porcharu May 23 2009, 11:36 PM
Get them - and learn how to use them. Both sides of the axles. I don't even want to think of the mess that loose axles would make. Both of mine were loose when I pulled my engine.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu May 28 2009, 07:15 PM
Getting closer!! I have 4 sets paid for, and at least 2 checks in the mail. I will place the order next week. Should be done in under 3 weeks.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Jun 1 2009, 05:34 PM
Just a quick post to make sure I have everyone on the list who has sent me a check.
Brandon - 1 pair
Dan - 2 pairs
William - 1 pair
Ronald - 2 pair
Job - 1 pair
Anyone else??
Posted by: DBCooper Jun 3 2009, 06:40 PM
Good news!!!
I will be able to sell the flanges for the original price of $495/pair!!! I just have to invest in 10 sets so I will have 5 sets sitting on my shelf - hopefully they will sell or I will be out a lot of money. My cost for 5 sets was $630/pair because the cost of splining is the same for 10 parts or 20 parts. I will start the ball rolling next week. I will still need prepayment for the parts as I don't have that kind of money laying around.
Steve
PM sent.
No PM back with a PayPal address. Did you get my message?
ME TOO! Please let me know how much and where/how to send it.
Posted by: charliew Jun 3 2009, 11:31 PM
Guys look at the suby cv's and check out the dust covers on the inside for the tranny seals. Spunone makes some nice aluminum dust covers that press on the magic flanges to shield the tranny seals.
Posted by: Porcharu Jun 4 2009, 01:31 PM
I placed the order and wrote the big check to the shop. ETA is about 5 weeks.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Jun 17 2009, 12:02 PM
The flanges are almost ready to head out to have the splines cut. I also am having the locking coupler and cover plate quoted, should know the cost pretty soon. With the dollar in the toilet the Ausi parts are very expensive these days.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Jun 18 2009, 12:42 PM
I can't believe it - I sold all 10 pairs of flanges! I guess I will have to start up another list.
Steve
Posted by: VOX Jun 18 2009, 02:29 PM
cool!, i hope some of you guys get a working car soon! using the subaru transmission, hopefully a good write up on it too
Posted by: jimkelly Jun 18 2009, 03:44 PM
guess i will not be selling my 1975 914 after all - looking forward to having a screaming suby powered/suby transmissioned/clean emissioned 914 as a daily driver. zoom zoom zoom : )
Posted by: Porcharu Jul 15 2009, 01:06 AM
I visited the shop today. Parts should return from the broaching place on Friday. Then just a clean up and off to the coater for the black oxide finish and they are DONE. I should be able to ship them sometime next week.
Steve
Posted by: JJ914GT Jul 15 2009, 06:10 AM
Good to hear! One of the last pieces of my puzzle
Posted by: atsealevel914 Jul 16 2009, 01:59 PM
Does anyone need a pair of magic flanges? I dont need mine anymore. 500.00 plus shipping. Includes dust rings from spunone. Email me at obiwankanobi@comcast.net or call me 786 553 0587. thanks.
-Jose
P.S. I also have a nice condition FWD 5MT legacy transmission with starter. Good tall gears if your using a torquey svx motor 150.00 plus shipping. Thanks
Posted by: Porcharu Jul 24 2009, 09:04 PM
Udpate - just got this today.
"Steve,
Two apologies, first your email was shunted to my “spam” folder so I just now am viewing it. Secondly, your parts are not back from broacher because we haven’t finished lot run quantity. We are finishing today. I will be at broacher on Monday. I will coordinate with Butch to time of completion. I have customers I can visit in that area so if broacher can finish the order and be done in the same day I will pick up and bring back same day. The heat treat will be another day and black anodize is two days. If all goes to this plan you will have completed parts by Thu/Friday. I will endeavor to keep you posted by event completion. Our production schedule was pressed behind by a week about 2 weeks ago and we have been scrambling to play catch up. Your parts fell into the cracks. Definitely my fault. Please don’t kick my ass too hard, I really don’t have much of it left. I will stay in touch."
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 29 2009, 06:18 PM
Very anxious for you guys to piece this solution together, i love my swap, but my freshly rebuilt 901 still isnt up to par with my modern motor now. Keep me posted. Hey can you guys post more pictures of the subaru tranmission in the rear of the 914 mounted?
Posted by: Porcharu Jul 29 2009, 07:25 PM
Have you seen my blog? Not the best pictures but the transmission is in pretty much the correct location. I will be making the prototype mounts pretty soon - I hope.
Posted by: Porcharu Jul 29 2009, 07:31 PM
cool!, i hope some of you guys get a working car soon! using the subaru transmission, hopefully a good write up on it too
Well you are in luck! The online 914 magazine wants me to do a full writeup so I will be fully documenting the swap. I do this type of thing for a living (writing technical documents) so it should be pretty good - especially with some professional editing.
Steve
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 30 2009, 12:25 AM
cool!, i hope some of you guys get a working car soon! using the subaru transmission, hopefully a good write up on it too
Well you are in luck! The online 914 magazine wants me to do a full writeup so I will be fully documenting the swap. I do this type of thing for a living (writing technical documents) so it should be pretty good - especially with some professional editing.
Steve
sweet i cant wait! what transmission should i keep my eye out for here in az. Which subaru model has the best?
Posted by: Porcharu Jul 30 2009, 02:28 AM
I wish I knew what stock trans is the 'best' one. I will have more of an idea once I get my car on the road. I imagine that NA and Turbo will be different. We will see soon.
Steve
Posted by: JJ914GT Jul 30 2009, 06:09 AM
Best to get an RA one with a front LSD I guess:
http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/trans.html
Front because the front will drive the rears..
( I have an RA one without LSD, anyone know of a good one I can put in? )
Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jul 30 2009, 09:11 AM
Just finishing my 6cyl Subaru EG33 and transaxle conversion. The car is almost ready to go. Things to finish are the wiring (working on that today) and have a appiontment to have the exhaust done Saturday. 
Bob
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 30 2009, 10:02 AM
Just finishing my 6cyl Subaru EG33 and transaxle conversion. The car is almost ready to go. Things to finish are the wiring (working on that today) and have a appiontment to have the exhaust done Saturday.
Bob
whats the horsepower on your NA setup?
Posted by: d914 Jul 30 2009, 10:15 AM
stock is 230hp,,,,no cats and a header maybe up to 240ish
Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jul 31 2009, 09:25 AM
D914 was right.
This engine stock makes 230HP. I really didn't want anything with too much power. I'm building this for my wife to drive. The main thing she wanted was a car that shifted like a real car(Her words). Sitting in the car and shifting without the engine running,this thing shifts just like a new Subaru with the stock linkage.
Bob
Posted by: d914 Jul 31 2009, 10:44 AM
the cable shifter works extremely well..we're using both a corolla and an accord shifter..$20 from a junk yard!! Now the top end cables $200!
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 31 2009, 11:54 PM
the cable shifter works extremely well..we're using both a corolla and an accord shifter..$20 from a junk yard!! Now the top end cables $200!
Could i use that same corolla or honda shifter for my 901? I already have the cableshift.com linkage, just curious
Oh hey, what year and model toyota or honda?
Posted by: strawman Aug 1 2009, 11:53 PM
Just finishing my 6cyl Subaru EG33 and transaxle conversion. The car is almost ready to go. Things to finish are the wiring (working on that today) and have a appiontment to have the exhaust done Saturday.
Bob
Hi Bob --
Congrats on your progress! I, too, am doing a Suby eng/trans into a 914; I am just now finalizing the engine mounting system. I like your trans mount and cable shifter setup.
I am interested in your axle solution. Did you weld up a segment of stock Suby axle shaft (inner portion) to a segment of the stock 914 axle shaft (outer portion), or did you make custom axle shafts that mate up the Suby inner CV with a 914 outer CV?
Geoff
Posted by: d914 Aug 2 2009, 12:15 PM
accord shifter 92 area,,corolla I believe late eghties early 90"s,,,Mr2 also,,I have an extra....
The corolla u have to do a little reverse action thing but itallows for more flexabilty on throw lengths that way..
Posted by: Dr Evil Aug 2 2009, 12:28 PM
Believe it or not, Hyundai's have great shifters for adaptation Cheap too. I have a bunch as I was/am designing a cable shifter for the 901 based on these. I can take a pic and am willing to sell most of the ones I have for $20 + ship.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Aug 2 2009, 12:32 PM
duplicate post
Posted by: tat2dphreak Aug 2 2009, 12:42 PM
Believe it or not, Hyundai's have great shifters for adaptation
Cheap too. I have a bunch as I was/am designing a cable shifter for the 901 based on these. I can take a pic and am willing to sell most of the ones I have for $20 + ship.are you making a cable shift 901 kit?! if so, when?! I would do damn near anything for a more accurate shifter at this point.
Posted by: Dr Evil Aug 2 2009, 12:47 PM
I need to farm out the production so I can get it done and tested. I dont promise that it will ever materialize as I draw closer to the end of my freedom and the beginning of my residency.
Posted by: DBCooper Aug 2 2009, 12:48 PM
Believe it or not, Hyundai's have great shifters for adaptation
Cheap too. I have a bunch as I was/am designing a cable shifter for the 901 based on these. Whoa! Hold on Doc, careful with what you say! Did you see those ears perk up everywhere across the land? You may be stumbling into a hornet's nest of pent-up demand that could create way more work than you really want to deal with.
Posted by: Dr Evil Aug 2 2009, 12:53 PM
Believe it or not, Hyundai's have great shifters for adaptation
Cheap too. I have a bunch as I was/am designing a cable shifter for the 901 based on these. I can take a pic and am willing to sell most of the ones I have for $20 + ship.are you making a cable shift 901 kit?! if so, when?! I would do damn near anything for a more accurate shifter at this point.
For a stock 901 you can easily have it shifting awesomely. Rebuild the box, change all bushings, check engine and tranny mounts. You would be amazed how well a 901 can shift.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Aug 2 2009, 01:00 PM
check, check, check... done all of these and I still miss 2nd some times... I changed every bushing, mount and cone screw when I put it all back together.
Posted by: Dr Evil Aug 2 2009, 01:07 PM
Notice you didnt quote the part where I said, "Rebuild the box" 
Posted by: tat2dphreak Aug 2 2009, 01:43 PM
Notice you didnt quote the part where I said, "Rebuild the box"
I know, I need to send you the stack, but damn, I just got it going!
Posted by: budman5201 Aug 3 2009, 07:22 PM
Believe it or not, Hyundai's have great shifters for adaptation
Cheap too. I have a bunch as I was/am designing a cable shifter for the 901 based on these. I can take a pic and am willing to sell most of the ones I have for $20 + ship.Yeah can you take a picture of that shifter for me, i might want it to experiment on. Oh also, Dr914, can i see the ones you have too??
Posted by: ghuff Aug 3 2009, 07:32 PM
My experience has been that cable shift cars are much harder to rev match than cars using rods to actuate the shift mechanism.
At least with VW's and the few other things I have driven with cables.
Cables always seem vague and odd no matter how modified.
Posted by: DBCooper Aug 4 2009, 09:51 AM
My experience has been that cable shift cars are much harder to rev match than cars using rods to actuate the shift mechanism.
At least with VW's and the few other things I have driven with cables.
Cables always seem vague and odd no matter how modified.
It's always a matter of "compared to what", isn't it? Every VW, Porsche or Japanese car with a cable shifter I've driven was goodness and light compared to my side shifter 914, but have you driven a 914/901 tail shifter? Those poor guys are more immediately worried about just getting the right gear than about matching RPM's. I'd even say that most would have an improvement to the modern standard of "vague and odd" pretty high on their wish lists.
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 4 2009, 11:44 AM
My experience has been that cable shift cars are much harder to rev match than cars using rods to actuate the shift mechanism.
At least with VW's and the few other things I have driven with cables.
Cables always seem vague and odd no matter how modified.
The beauty with using a modern transmission with proper syncros (and the correct clutch/flywheel) is that rev matching is no longer needed - just put it in gear and it goes.
Posted by: d914 Aug 4 2009, 12:16 PM
ahhh not so young grasshopper,,,,some of us track guys still need to match revs to gear for a smooth transfer going into a turn!! :::) but I agree on the whole modern tranny issue.
I plan on doing a stock restore sometime in the future,,but not on this car!!
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 4 2009, 12:56 PM
I was going to add the downshifting thing but didn't want to start a pissing match on the pros and cons of that issue.
Posted by: Dr Evil Aug 5 2009, 09:18 PM
Believe it or not, Hyundai's have great shifters for adaptation
Cheap too. I have a bunch as I was/am designing a cable shifter for the 901 based on these. I can take a pic and am willing to sell most of the ones I have for $20 + ship.Yeah can you take a picture of that shifter for me, i might want it to experiment on. Oh also, Dr914, can i see the ones you have too??
PM me so I dont forget. I got a lot going on and a lot is slipping
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 13 2009, 02:12 PM
Just got this email a few minutes ago
Steve,
I just got off the phone with the plating shop. We anticipate finished product by tomorrow. I will keep you posted should any developments occur contrary to this latest information.
Posted by: budman5201 Aug 14 2009, 01:36 AM
A/C COLD in AZ....Check!
Subaru WRX motor.... check!
Subaru transmission? .... EHHH!
Come one guys, lets get one of these suby trans done. I want to put a subaru trans in my project. That will make it complete! I'd love to hear the results soon!!
Posted by: jimkelly Aug 14 2009, 07:56 AM
nysr has a running sub trans - not magic flanged though.
see ...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40733&st=340
maybe we need to ask him for an update?
Posted by: strawman Aug 16 2009, 10:32 PM
nysr has a running sub trans - not magic flanged though.
see ...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40733&st=340
maybe we need to ask him for an update?
I tried PMing him a while back to get some details, but got no response. He was last active in December 2008. Anyone live nearby that can give him a poke?
Geoff
Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Aug 17 2009, 08:41 AM
Got mine running and was ready to pull it off the jack stands and go for a ride. I noticed a bad water leak only to find a bad water pump. I had to pull the engine to replace this.
I sure wish that I had replaced it when I did my timing belt.
Bob
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 17 2009, 11:55 AM
I just heard that the parts are in final inspection at the plating shop.
Steve
Posted by: TwinTurbo914 Aug 17 2009, 01:15 PM
I just heard that the parts are in final inspection at the plating shop.
Steve
Yay cant wait, good timing as im getting my subie six, hopefully this weekend.
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 19 2009, 01:20 PM
I will be picking up the parts today The shop made a few extras so if anyone wants a pair PM me.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 19 2009, 03:01 PM
Just in case someone needs a pair of flanges member atsealevel914 has a pair available for sale - includes the nice dust flanges.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 19 2009, 09:26 PM
I picked up a big heavy box of parts today! I also wrote a BIG ugly check.
The flanges turned out really nice, even better than the first batch. You will be very happy with these parts. I will start shipping them out tomorrow.
Steve
Posted by: JJ914GT Aug 20 2009, 02:36 AM
Great news, THANKS!
PS, just noticed,.. that was your 914'th post ;-)
Posted by: atsealevel914 Aug 23 2009, 03:44 PM
Hello everyone. Price drop on my magic flanges...435.00 plus shipping. includes dust flanges from member spunone. My email is obiwankanobi@comcast.com thanks.
Jose
Posted by: budman5201 Aug 23 2009, 05:24 PM
Hello everyone. Price drop on my magic flanges...435.00 plus shipping. includes dust flanges from member spunone. My email is obiwankanobi@comcast.com thanks.
Jose
Posted by: atsealevel914 Aug 23 2009, 08:22 PM
Hello everyone. Price drop on my magic flanges...435.00 plus shipping. includes dust flanges from member spunone. My email is obiwankanobi@comcast.com thanks.
Jose
The subby trans you need is from the 5mt family of subaru transmissions. Some are domestic and some jdm. the jdm's tipically have lower gear ratios and maybe stronger and wider gears. Its a 5 speed and can be equipped with various available lsd diffs and a plethora of aftermarket and oem gear ratios. Can be had pretty cheap if you dont do aftermarket gears.
Posted by: rickthejetman Aug 23 2009, 09:27 PM
does anyone have pictures of a subie turbo engine and trans installed? i am currently in the process of trying to install mine and would love to get someideas. i've seen the craddle made for the porsche trans and subie engine i like that idea but of course that wont work with the subie trans.
Posted by: budman5201 Aug 25 2009, 01:10 AM
does anyone have pictures of a subie turbo engine and trans installed? i am currently in the process of trying to install mine and would love to get someideas. i've seen the craddle made for the porsche trans and subie engine i like that idea but of course that wont work with the subie trans.
so ....can i use an auto transmission also?? like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-Subaru-Impreza-Forester-Legacy-Automatic-Trans- EJ25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4ceaacbeeeQQitemZ33035
4704110QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2740wt_1338
Posted by: strawman Aug 25 2009, 01:42 AM
does anyone have pictures of a subie turbo engine and trans installed? i am currently in the process of trying to install mine and would love to get someideas. i've seen the craddle made for the porsche trans and subie engine i like that idea but of course that wont work with the subie trans.
so ....can i use an auto transmission also?? like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-Subaru-Impreza-Forester-Legacy-Automatic-Trans- EJ25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4ceaacbeeeQQitemZ33035
4704110QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2740wt_1338
I'm not sure if the Bremar 2wd coupler works on auto tranmissions... you could look for a factory 2wd trans; they were used in Imprezas and Legacies through 1994. Best of luck!
Geoff
Posted by: DBCooper Aug 25 2009, 05:17 AM
No, the Bremar parts will not work on an automatic.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Aug 25 2009, 02:41 PM
does anyone have pictures of a subie turbo engine and trans installed? i am currently in the process of trying to install mine and would love to get someideas. i've seen the craddle made for the porsche trans and subie engine i like that idea but of course that wont work with the subie trans.
so ....can i use an auto transmission also?? like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-Subaru-Impreza-Forester-Legacy-Automatic-Trans- EJ25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4ceaacbeeeQQitemZ33035
4704110QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2740wt_1338
You can use an SVX auto FWD trans. They do these with a performance build that can take some serious power.
-Jose
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 25 2009, 02:54 PM
does anyone have pictures of a subie turbo engine and trans installed? i am currently in the process of trying to install mine and would love to get someideas. i've seen the craddle made for the porsche trans and subie engine i like that idea but of course that wont work with the subie trans.
so ....can i use an auto transmission also?? like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-Subaru-Impreza-Forester-Legacy-Automatic-Trans- EJ25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4ceaacbeeeQQitemZ33035
4704110QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2740wt_1338
The flanges should work on the auto trans. Just look for an older FWD version. There is a good rebuilder that makes a very stout auto trans that can hold a lot of power at ecutune.com they also have reprogrammed valve bodies. The only problem I see with the auto trans is how to control it as it is an electronically controlled trans. The easiest way would be to use the stock ecu.
Posted by: strawman Aug 25 2009, 05:41 PM
The flanges should work on the auto trans. Just look for an older FWD version. There is a good rebuilder that makes a very stout auto trans that can hold a lot of power at ecutune.com they also have reprogrammed valve bodies. The only problem I see with the auto trans is how to control it as it is an electronically controlled trans. The easiest way would be to use the stock ecu.
The Suby auto trans has its own ECU, which also links to the engine ECU. They're plentiful in the NorCal junkyards...
Geoff
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 26 2009, 01:28 AM
The flanges should work on the auto trans. Just look for an older FWD version. There is a good rebuilder that makes a very stout auto trans that can hold a lot of power at ecutune.com they also have reprogrammed valve bodies. The only problem I see with the auto trans is how to control it as it is an electronically controlled trans. The easiest way would be to use the stock ecu.
The Suby auto trans has its own ECU, which also links to the engine ECU. They're plentiful in the NorCal junkyards...
Geoff
Thanks for the info - I have no idea how the auto trans works as I detest the things in general (along with power steering.)
I am shipping the parts out tomorrow to everyone that was in on the group buy.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 27 2009, 01:26 PM
The parts are on the way to everyone that ordered!
Steve
Posted by: atsealevel914 Aug 27 2009, 02:33 PM
does anyone have pictures of a subie turbo engine and trans installed? i am currently in the process of trying to install mine and would love to get someideas. i've seen the craddle made for the porsche trans and subie engine i like that idea but of course that wont work with the subie trans.
so ....can i use an auto transmission also?? like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-Subaru-Impreza-Forester-Legacy-Automatic-Trans- EJ25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4ceaacbeeeQQitemZ33035
4704110QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2740wt_1338
The flanges should work on the auto trans. Just look for an older FWD version. There is a good rebuilder that makes a very stout auto trans that can hold a lot of power at ecutune.com they also have reprogrammed valve bodies. The only problem I see with the auto trans is how to control it as it is an electronically controlled trans. The easiest way would be to use the stock ecu.
Thats the same place i was talking about. His name is Mike. If you want an auto trans that can handle a lot of power and shifts strong hes the man. Hes done work for me in the past and his work is outstanding. Heres the thread were he discusses the build.
-Jose
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 27 2009, 03:26 PM
Thats the same place i was talking about. His name is Mike. If you want an auto trans that can handle a lot of power and shifts strong hes the man. Hes done work for me in the past and his work is outstanding. Heres the thread were he discusses the build.
-Jose
Where is the link to the thread. Mike is also on the same CNC forum as myself and has a DIY converted CNC mill very similar to the one I am building. He uses the mill to deck blocks and stress relieve some of the gears in the transmissions he builds. I have been in contact with him via email and he has me almost convinced to go with a reprogrammed stock ECU when I go for the six install sometime in the future.
Steve
Posted by: TwinTurbo914 Aug 28 2009, 02:15 PM
Got my "magic flanges" from ups today, really, really nice thanks for the group buy
Posted by: Porcharu Aug 28 2009, 10:07 PM
Cool - I was just about to PM you to see if you recieved them. Glad you like them.
Steve
Posted by: jimkelly Aug 30 2009, 10:33 AM
Actually,
The 8 and 9 second drag cars that ESX and Rigoli Racing runs use auto trannies. Subies auto trannies are way stronger than the manuals...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=39309&st=20
post # 36
Posted by: EMRoadster Aug 31 2009, 07:05 PM
Wooohoooo!!! My "magic flanges" came today!!!
Posted by: budman5201 Sep 1 2009, 10:07 AM
Wooohoooo!!! My "magic flanges" came today!!!
Okay now that would be killer....A killer autotranny that can take the abuse! Which one exactly should i buy or start to look for??
link??
Posted by: Porcharu Sep 1 2009, 11:21 AM
Go here http://www.ecutune.com The guy the owns the place builds some killer transmissions and I am sure he can lead you in the correct direction.
Steve
Posted by: Porcharu Sep 1 2009, 11:22 AM
Wooohoooo!!! My "magic flanges" came today!!!
So - what do you think of them???? Worth the wait and $$$?
Posted by: EMRoadster Sep 1 2009, 06:33 PM
Wooohoooo!!! My "magic flanges" came today!!!
So - what do you think of them???? Worth the wait and $$$?
Well, I haven't seen any of the first batch other than pictures.
But, YES, these things are a work of art!!!
Posted by: Skunkwrx Sep 3 2009, 01:31 PM
Got mine yesterday. Thanks to all involved. Top notch
Posted by: atsealevel914 Sep 3 2009, 01:56 PM
Thats the same place i was talking about. His name is Mike. If you want an auto trans that can handle a lot of power and shifts strong hes the man. Hes done work for me in the past and his work is outstanding. Heres the thread were he discusses the build.
-Jose
Where is the link to the thread. Mike is also on the same CNC forum as myself and has a DIY converted CNC mill very similar to the one I am building. He uses the mill to deck blocks and stress relieve some of the gears in the transmissions he builds. I have been in contact with him via email and he has me almost convinced to go with a reprogrammed stock ECU when I go for the six install sometime in the future.
Steve
Oops heres the link http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37433
-Jose
Posted by: jimkelly Sep 3 2009, 08:03 PM
oh yeah : )
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Numbchux Sep 6 2009, 01:38 AM
Wow!!! Just read through this, and am extremely encouraged.
I'm assuming since you're referencing SVXs and Autos that these are 25-spline adapters?
FYI in '93 and '94, the 1.8l FWD 5MT imprezas have 23 splines. if you try to put one of these flanges on one of those trannys, you're going to be very sad. I think '95 FWD imprezas still had a 1.8l, but I know they used 25 spline axles, so it's not specific to engine size.
If I end up building a 914, I'll definitely be getting a pair of these!! Any news on the cable-shifter setup? That would be my next hurtle.....although I've got this FWD Auto trans from a '92 legacy, and have been in touch with a guy who reflashed the ROM in the TCU so he could have full-manual control over it with paddles.....
question, as I'm fairly new to VW/porsches. would this speed sensor ring bolt up to these flanges?
http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29880
Posted by: Porcharu Sep 7 2009, 02:22 AM
Wow!!! Just read through this, and am extremely encouraged.
I'm assuming since you're referencing SVXs and Autos that these are 25-spline adapters?
FYI in '93 and '94, the 1.8l FWD 5MT imprezas have 23 splines. if you try to put one of these flanges on one of those trannys, you're going to be very sad. I think '95 FWD imprezas still had a 1.8l, but I know they used 25 spline axles, so it's not specific to engine size.
If I end up building a 914, I'll definitely be getting a pair of these!! Any news on the cable-shifter setup? That would be my next hurtle.....although I've got this FWD Auto trans from a '92 legacy, and have been in touch with a guy who reflashed the ROM in the TCU so he could have full-manual control over it with paddles.....
question, as I'm fairly new to VW/porsches. would this speed sensor ring bolt up to these flanges?
You can just use a stock Subaru speed sensor for the trans. No need to make anyting new. The speed sensor just replaces the speedo cable, easy cheap and it works.
Steve
http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29880
Posted by: Numbchux Sep 7 2009, 02:10 PM
Steve
haha, DOH. I should have known that. Thanks!
Posted by: charliew Sep 10 2009, 12:52 AM
I have a 96tt outback 5mt and a 02 wrx tranny and the flanges fit both tranys.
Posted by: Numbchux Sep 10 2009, 02:32 AM
I have a 96tt outback 5mt and a 02 wrx tranny and the flanges fit both tranys.
then definitely 25-spline. it's just those couple years of EJ FWD 5MTs that got the 23-splines. But I just thought I'd mention it, for anyone looking for a FWD 5MT. avoid the '93-'94 imprezas!
Posted by: jimkelly Sep 10 2009, 11:17 AM
Numbchux
thanks for sharing - a 93/94 fwd trans was exactly what i was planning on.
i do not think suabaru made fwd trans after 1993 - so we will be limited to converting an awd trans - that's fine.
jim
I have a 96tt outback 5mt and a 02 wrx tranny and the flanges fit both tranys.
then definitely 25-spline. it's just those couple years of EJ FWD 5MTs that got the 23-splines. But I just thought I'd mention it, for anyone looking for a FWD 5MT. avoid the '93-'94 imprezas!
Posted by: Numbchux Sep 10 2009, 02:04 PM
yea they did, all the way into '96.
only those 2 years of imprezas are different. '95-'96 impreza FWD 5MTs are 25 spline, as are '90-'96 legacies.
I've got a '92 legacy FWD 5MT that I plan to use should this project ever get off the ground...
Numbchux
thanks for sharing - a 93/94 fwd trans was exactly what i was planning on.
i do not think suabaru made fwd trans after 1993 - so we will be limited to converting an awd trans - that's fine.
jim
I have a 96tt outback 5mt and a 02 wrx tranny and the flanges fit both tranys.
then definitely 25-spline. it's just those couple years of EJ FWD 5MTs that got the 23-splines. But I just thought I'd mention it, for anyone looking for a FWD 5MT. avoid the '93-'94 imprezas!
Posted by: atsealevel914 Sep 10 2009, 02:09 PM
i do not think suabaru made fwd trans after 1993 - so we will be limited to converting an awd trans - that's fine.
jim
Jim, No. You will not be limited to an AWD trans. 92-94 legacy FWD transmissions Are available for very cheap and i also have one for sale as well as a pair of flanges that i dont need anymore. 150.00 for the 94' LEG FWD 5mt and 400.00 for the magic flanges
Jose
Posted by: jimkelly Sep 10 2009, 04:13 PM
thanks for the transaxle clarification. jim
Posted by: charliew Sep 12 2009, 08:54 AM
I would like to play with a fwd tranny to compare the innards to the 5mt awd stuff I have but the dang shipping is the problem for me. I won a fwd tranny on ebay but the seller (a cali. yard) decided it was a awd tranny and renigged on the deal. It was only a 100.00. But the shipping was also 100.00. I would like to see if the 05 legacy innards and the obx will fit.
Really once you see the bremar conversion you see how to weld the center diff parts up and the plate is pretty easy to make.
The fwd tranny case is shorter in the rear though and might look better from the rear under the car.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Sep 13 2009, 04:49 PM
I would like to play with a fwd tranny to compare the innards to the 5mt awd stuff I have but the dang shipping is the problem for me. I won a fwd tranny on ebay but the seller (a cali. yard) decided it was a awd tranny and renigged on the deal. It was only a 100.00. But the shipping was also 100.00. I would like to see if the 05 legacy innards and the obx will fit.
Really once you see the bremar conversion you see how to weld the center diff parts up and the plate is pretty easy to make.
The fwd tranny case is shorter in the rear though and might look better from the rear under the car.
The obx lsd will fit but the output shaft will not. Theres a place called Andrewtech that works on these transaxles and is one of the best suby trans specialists around. He can answer these questions for you.
-Jose
Posted by: charliew Sep 17 2009, 10:45 PM
I hang out on nasioc some and there is lots of info there including andrewtech. The output shaft will fit if the rear fwd case is modified for the extra length.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Sep 18 2009, 05:06 PM
I hang out on nasioc some and there is lots of info there including andrewtech. The output shaft will fit if the rear fwd case is modified for the extra length.
Nasioc is one of my favorite suby sites. Whats the point of modifiying the FWD case to fit the AWD outputshaft? Why not just use the outputshaft of an AWD in an AWD case where its meant to be? I would just use the FWD transaxle with an obx lsd diff. I kind of like the taller gears.
Posted by: nsyr Sep 23 2009, 02:20 PM
What's happening! Haven't been on this forum in a couple years and thought I would stop by. Glad to see the progress made on the flanges. I had some PM's that I never answered. Never knew I had them and they are quite old now. I still have my 914 with subie engine and transmission. The flanges I put together are still holding strong and working great. I did blow a head gasket so I haven't been driving it lately. The cable shifter has been a pain. It's sloppy and at one point broke a cable. I am either going to do a rod shifter or maybe try an automatic. Anyways, great work guys.
Posted by: charliew Oct 30 2009, 03:42 PM
I hang out on nasioc some and there is lots of info there including andrewtech. The output shaft will fit if the rear fwd case is modified for the extra length.
Nasioc is one of my favorite suby sites. Whats the point of modifiying the FWD case to fit the AWD outputshaft? Why not just use the outputshaft of an AWD in an AWD case where its meant to be? I would just use the FWD transaxle with an obx lsd diff. I kind of like the taller gears.
If you use the awd output and mill the fwd rear case you can do away with the awd centerdif case and the bremar blockoff plate which will make a shorter transmission. Steve already posted some pictures of both under the car. Also I want to use the 05 leg parts including the shafts. The 05 leg case I have is busted up and unuseable.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Oct 31 2009, 06:19 PM
What's happening! Haven't been on this forum in a couple years and thought I would stop by. Glad to see the progress made on the flanges. I had some PM's that I never answered. Never knew I had them and they are quite old now. I still have my 914 with subie engine and transmission. The flanges I put together are still holding strong and working great. I did blow a head gasket so I haven't been driving it lately. The cable shifter has been a pain. It's sloppy and at one point broke a cable. I am either going to do a rod shifter or maybe try an automatic. Anyways, great work guys.
Talk to bob Bigkat he fabed up a cable shifter that shifts "just like a brand new subaru" He says, using junkyard parts.
Posted by: white_987 Dec 6 2009, 06:27 PM
Does anyone have a pair of subaru/vw adapter flanges available?
Thanks,
Kevin
What's happening! Haven't been on this forum in a couple years and thought I would stop by. Glad to see the progress made on the flanges. I had some PM's that I never answered. Never knew I had them and they are quite old now. I still have my 914 with subie engine and transmission. The flanges I put together are still holding strong and working great. I did blow a head gasket so I haven't been driving it lately. The cable shifter has been a pain. It's sloppy and at one point broke a cable. I am either going to do a rod shifter or maybe try an automatic. Anyways, great work guys.
Talk to bob Bigkat he fabed up a cable shifter that shifts "just like a brand new subaru" He says, using junkyard parts.
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 7 2009, 12:06 AM
atsealevel914 had a pair for sale. Try him first.
Steve
Posted by: white_987 Dec 7 2009, 07:00 PM
Thanks Steve... I sent him a PM.
And if atsealevel914 should see this thread 1st, please PM me about your flanges.
Thanks!
Kevin
atsealevel914 had a pair for sale. Try him first.
Steve
Posted by: atsealevel914 Dec 7 2009, 07:19 PM
Thanks Steve... I sent him a PM.
And if atsealevel914 should see this thread 1st, please PM me about your flanges.
Thanks!
Kevin
atsealevel914 had a pair for sale. Try him first.
Steve
Kevin, ive decided not to sell them. Thanks.
Posted by: atsealevel914 Dec 7 2009, 07:32 PM
Porsche is pronounced (porsh-ah) add ru and you got (porsh-a-ru) spelled porscheru
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 11 2009, 09:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncmaxYd1WNI
Posted by: strawman Dec 11 2009, 10:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncmaxYd1WNI
That's great! I too am using an early (AW11) MR2 shifter on my Suby trans. Can you provide details on your cables (length, manufacturer, diameter)?
Geoff
Posted by: charliew Dec 11 2009, 06:12 PM
That looks good Paul. The trick is to eliminate all the flex in the brackets to firm up the shifts. The bracket that is L shaped with the two bolts in it, will flex a lot less if he will add a gusset inbetween the two bolts and down the center of the long flat. The stiffness of the flat is not in the correct plane to pull and push.
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 12 2009, 06:48 AM
The cables were custom made at a place in Fresno. I can get the name if you like, but most any cable supplier should be able to do the same.
That was just the first go-through, Charlie, to check geometry, flex, cable length and routing under the car, etc. Next it'll be taken apart, gusseted, then cleaned up and painted. At this point just checking that it works and the feel is correct and precise at the shifter. When done it'll also be installed a few inches back from the stock shifter location, for more modern ergos.
Posted by: pablocamarotte Dec 13 2009, 11:59 PM
Hi. I love 914 shape. Could you please help me to find who make Body Fiber Glass kit like porsche 914?
Best regards, Pablo
That's a Suby AWD trans converted to RWD with 2 parts <!-- emo&:beer2: -->
<!-- endemo --> Convertor sleeve: AUD$120.00
Blanking plate: AUD$110.00
If bought together, total price AUD$210.00
Looks like a side shift linkage could be tweaked to work.
I just bought a 2005 (EJ25) engine and trans (2000 miles) for the 914 - let the fun begin.
I just sent an e-mail to sakercars to check on parts availability.
Steve. <!-- emo&:beer3: -->
<!-- endemo -->Posted by: atsealevel914 Dec 14 2009, 12:38 AM
Hi. I love 914 shape. Could you please help me to find who make Body Fiber Glass kit like porsche 914?
Best regards, Pablo
That's a Suby AWD trans converted to RWD with 2 parts <!-- emo&:beer2: -->
<!-- endemo --> Convertor sleeve: AUD$120.00
Blanking plate: AUD$110.00
If bought together, total price AUD$210.00
Looks like a side shift linkage could be tweaked to work.
I just bought a 2005 (EJ25) engine and trans (2000 miles) for the 914 - let the fun begin.
I just sent an e-mail to sakercars to check on parts availability.
Steve. <!-- emo&:beer3: -->
<!-- endemo -->Welcome to the club pablo. As far as I know there is no fiberglass kit for a 914. No one would buy it since you can buy a real 914.
Posted by: JJ914GT Dec 14 2009, 12:42 PM
The one in the photo is a Saker, not a 914.
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 14 2009, 12:47 PM
Saker (not 914) with (among others) Subaru engine/transmission:
Opened up to see the cool stuff:
Posted by: fat73 Dec 14 2009, 05:34 PM
Hi. I love 914 shape. Could you please help me to find who make Body Fiber Glass kit like porsche 914?
Best regards, Pablo
Pablo,
Here's a site that sells after market fiber glass 914 stuff.
http://www.showcars-bodyparts.com/PORSCHE914.html
Also I've attached a recent pic of my car (with the subaru wrx engine). Just painted the windshield frame/cowl black and installed a new windshield with the rubber trim in preparation for getting the rest of the car ready to paint (black...and maybe some stripes). Also painted the top black.
Ed
Posted by: ldscamaross Dec 18 2009, 12:04 AM
it is looking really good. are you planning on making kits and selling them to those of us who are using the subi trannies? I would be interested in one.
The cables were custom made at a place in Fresno. I can get the name if you like, but most any cable supplier should be able to do the same.
That was just the first go-through, Charlie, to check geometry, flex, cable length and routing under the car, etc. Next it'll be taken apart, gusseted and boxed, then cleaned up and painted. At this point just checking that it works and the feel is correct and precise at the shifter. When done it'll also be installed a few inches back from the stock shifter location, for more modern ergos.
Posted by: Porcharu Dec 18 2009, 12:58 AM
I will be offering one on my own pretty soon.
Steve
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 25 2009, 12:34 PM
Converting back to a tailshifter. Jackstands, you can never have enough:
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 16 2010, 03:31 AM
OK, our progress report. This is from another stand-alone thread of this project, start to finish, included again here for completeness. This car already had a WRX motor, but the Porsche 901 just plain couldn't keep up so had to go. Anyway, the WRX five speed with Quaife gets introduced to engine:
The WRX transmission axle outlets are a little closer to the flywheel than the 901, which meant the engine had to be moved back to keep the axles aligned with the stubs.
Flipped manifold. Enough space in there now for an EZ30 six, easy. Nice looking hellhole too, don't you think? Still needs detailing of course, but first things first.
But moving the engine back meant he had to box a small part of the rear trunk. That's OK, this car isn't for hauling luggage anyway. Or lawn tools. Or groceries.
Cable shifter at the transmission. Beautiful work.
And inside the car, the modified MR2 shifter. Feels notchy, accurate, and good, which is what this is all about. That and more strength, especially in first.
A video of the shifter, still in the prototype stage, showing the action in the front and the rear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncmaxYd1WNI
Ask Abby what she thinks of Grandpa's car. She likes to show off those pretty new teeth.
The water-air intercooler. It will go just ahead of the engine on the driver's side.
In the car, you can see part of the new cradle, just tacked for the moment.
Axles are aligned. Yes Porch, those are your flanges. I sure hope they're strong enough. I'd hate to break one, and we intend to try.
Business end, seen from the rear. It looks so good we'll probably go without a valence, gotta show it off. I can't wait until in the rearview mirror I see another 914 guy who's pulled up behind and is trying to figure out what all happened back there.
This work is being done by a wizard at a shop called 40-Thirteen in Modesto, CA. Quality of work is unmatched. If you're curious there are a lot more pictures of this transmission project, the engine cradle, what the car looked like with just the WRX motor before these changes, or more pictures of that beautiful granddaughter in an album at: http://photobucket.com/Corinthiano
The other big "while we're in there" change is changing from an air-air to a water-air intercooler. This is where we had the air-air before:
Not enough airflow there. One thought was to put a scoop on the bottom of the firewall, forcing air up, and if we found out we needed to we could compliment that with a ducktail spoiler at the back of the roof to create some low pressure over the engine lid, plus fans, of course. But wait a minute, take a step back and think how silly that is, to do all that just so you can put your radiator in that particular location, where it will still probably only work half-assed anyway. So we just put the intercooler radiator in the front in its more natural location. Done and dusted. Better aesthetically and more functional as well, so win-win.
This is where it will be, cute little thing, hidden in front of the engine radiator in the front of the car. 
The new intercooler plumbing layout in back:
Seen from car level:
More later.
.
Posted by: DBCooper Feb 7 2010, 01:49 PM
OK, I’ve been traveling so haven’t posted, but some serious progress has been made.
There's a separate post for this project, posted here also for completeness. We’re now officially past the jack stand stage, and those boxed in areas in the trunk are now painted.
And the intercooler powder coated:
It will look good with all the stainless steel inlet tubing. The manifold was re-painted after the bosses were removed:
How the flipped manifold will look on the engine, pretty clean:
The inlet pipe so we’ll recirculate instead of dumping it out:
Nice welds. I grew up in vineyards so when I was younger and thinking what I wanted to do with my life one of the ideas was to be a cooper. Honest work with good people around good wine. I still think about that sometimes, but if I’d known about welding stainless steel I would have had other ideas. This is extremely cool and I wish I could do as well myself:
The Tilton fitting for the clutch slave:
One of the adapter flanges. A little concern here because it fit a bit loosely on the splines compared with the stock Subaru. We’ll see. Hopefully we won’t break them (my son is a specialist in destructive testing) but if we do we may have to try custom axles:
A broad view of the cradle:
Genuine OEM Subaru motor mounts ought to keep things in place:
The rear of the cradle on the transmission end, the cable shifter brackets:
And the rear mounts, looking really good with the black powder coating:
What’s nice about using a cradle is how easy it is to remove the whole assembly. Not that we intend to do that a lot, but when necessary it’s nice to have thought ahead. Quick waterproof connectors on the wiring looms:
And Pushlocs on the water connections:
Then the axles, throttle cable, clutch hydraulic, gas lines, and the whole thing drops as a unit. Almost as easy as it sounds. I know Jeff ought to be pretty good at it by now, he’s aready had the thing in and out so many times.
It looks a little weird, but the exhaust should outlet in the “normal” place in the valance, if we use one. I don’t think we will. Normal on the right hand side anyway. When the turbo gets through chopping up the exhaust sound it’s actually pretty quiet before it even gets to the little Magnaflow. I describe the sound as the healthy half of a V8, pretty quiet to 5000 rpm’s but then it begins a seriously nasty howl.
Like I said before, Jeff does some really beautiful work. This is going to be fun.
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 7 2010, 04:55 PM
Once the spring pin is installed the flange will be nice and snug. I noticed this when testing the flanges on various output shafts (I only have 4 and they are all a little different.) Looks great, is that Tilton part custom for a Suby?
Steve
Posted by: camaroz1985 Feb 17 2010, 11:36 AM
Does anyone know what cars might have a long enough shift cable, rather than getting an aftermarket push-pull cable?
Posted by: atsealevel914 Feb 17 2010, 11:50 AM
Does anyone know what cars might have a long enough shift cable, rather than getting an aftermarket push-pull cable?
Boxster maybe?
Posted by: jpnovak Feb 17 2010, 12:12 PM
[quote name='atsealevel914' date='Feb 17 2010, 11:50 AM' post='1274905']
[quote name='camaroz1985' post='1274901' date='Feb 17 2010, 09:36 AM']
Does anyone know what cars might have a long enough shift cable, rather than getting an aftermarket push-pull cable?
[/quote]
Mercruiser boat cables are cheap and can be found from 6' to 30'. That is what I have for my GRM $2010 Challenge car.
great work in this thread.
Can you post some dimensions for the arc travel related to the MR2 shifter and the selector shaft extension? I will be working on this shortly.
Posted by: camaroz1985 Feb 17 2010, 02:32 PM
Mercruiser boat cables are cheap and can be found from 6' to 30'. That is what I have for my GRM $2010 Challenge car.
That's the cheapest I found too for the same project.
Posted by: rickthejetman Feb 17 2010, 04:05 PM
jegs has shifter cables up to 14' for $40. cheaper than any marine cables i has seen. plus they have threaded sheath ends unlike most boat cables.
Posted by: jpnovak Feb 18 2010, 09:30 AM
I paid $5 on ebay for two 11' cables. They have threaded ends so I can put whatever I want on them to make connections. They have really nice seals for the marine environment.
Even if they are not threaded they are a standard size to run a die down. Make whatever threads you want on the end.
Posted by: camaroz1985 Feb 18 2010, 09:40 AM
I've seen the marine cables for $20-30 a piece.
Posted by: quikshft Feb 28 2010, 01:15 AM
I will be offering one on my own pretty soon.
Steve
Well I just finished reading this entire thread and as of yet I don't even own a 914.
Steve you had noted previously in this novel that you would be writing a technical article for an online 914 magazine, did that get accomplished? Where could a person read this?
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 1 2010, 12:17 AM
I have not done this yet - having a job and a 4 year old kind of f's everything you had planed out. I also bought my first house and have that to deal with that (it's a 140 miles away from where I live.) Someday soon I hope - the shop is starting to look good.
Steve
I will be offering one on my own pretty soon.
Steve
Well I just finished reading this entire thread and as of yet I don't even own a 914.
Steve you had noted previously in this novel that you would be writing a technical article for an online 914 magazine, did that get accomplished? Where could a person read this?Posted by: ldscamaross Mar 3 2010, 01:45 AM
has anybody tried using both sides of the bus axle cv? the cv is 100x6 and i think the 911 stub axles would work. i think the year range i was looking at was 76-83 or so. im not sure if the splines for the 911 stub axle are the same as the 914-4 has any body looked into this?
Posted by: G Man Mar 7 2010, 10:02 PM
I too am currently a non owner. I really like the idea of a Subi engine and trans combo. My only issue is that I need an automatic trans due to nerve damage in my back. Is it possible to modify a Subi auto trans to work in a 914 application. Seems like it would be easier than a manual since there is no shift linkage to deal with other than a shifter cable. Does this sound reasonable?
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 8 2010, 08:29 AM
Nice build. I thought I would add a link to the DYI Bremar AWD to 2WD. Interesting way to save a couple bucks if you have the skills.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=104513
Posted by: atsealevel914 Mar 8 2010, 09:04 AM
I too am currently a non owner. I really like the idea of a Subi engine and trans combo. My only issue is that I need an automatic trans due to nerve damage in my back. Is it possible to modify a Subi auto trans to work in a 914 application. Seems like it would be easier than a manual since there is no shift linkage to deal with other than a shifter cable. Does this sound reasonable?
possible? yes. I wanted to go the same route. you need a FWD 4eat. There are several ways to deal with the electronics and an lsd front diff is available too.
Posted by: DBCooper Mar 19 2010, 04:53 AM
.
OK, we have liftoff. The transmission is in, the car running, and it's all excellent. These are those famous flanges (thanks again, Steve):
Closer view:
The cable shifter and more of the engine cradle:
Engine compartment:
New pedals (easier than modifying the 914 pedals for a hydraulic clutch master):
Cable shifter inside, and the ECU (which will all be covered with an armrest/storage cubby):
And the front heat exchanger for the water-air intercooler:
Most important for anyone reading this thread is that it all works great. The car's in California so I haven't driven it yet, but my sons have and say it's perfect. Shifting is notchy, fast and smooth, just like a normal car. Those are their words, it shifts "like a normal car". I think we've really hit on the perfect combination, retaining all the good qualities of the 914, the reasons I liked this car to begin with, but triple the power with a good strong modern and efficient power train and no extra weight.
This ended up being more work than we initially thought, but the results are super, much better than we expected. We did good. Really really good.
There are more details in http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=102887 thread, and more photos http://photobucket.com/Corinthiano
And Steve, you need to edit the title of this thread. It's not a "Subaru transmission possibliity". It's real.
.
Posted by: db9146 Mar 19 2010, 07:28 AM
You guys going down the Suby path are doing some great work getting all of this pulled together. While I'm convinced at this point that I want to continue my conversion with a Porsche engine, I have been watching this and thinking about the possibilities of putting one of these transaxles behind a 6-cyl. since all of the other Porsche options I've looked at (915, G50, even modified 901 and Audi trans) are so expensive and still result in less than ideal shifting.
I've never heard of anyone trying to mate a Suby trans to a Porsche 6-cyl. Do any of you guys with the Suby transaxle experience have any idea if this is a possibility? Or any direction you can point me in to do a little more investigation?
Thanks.
Posted by: d914 Mar 19 2010, 07:44 AM
kennedy for an adapter plate and or clutch, then do a cable shifter.. the reverse has been done for 911"s...suby 6 to a 915...they should be able to do a porsche 6 to a suby tran!!
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 19 2010, 12:30 PM
Take a look at Andi's thread regarding 944 flanges, they are a direct fit and allow the use of 100mm CVs on both ends.
Steve
has anybody tried using both sides of the bus axle cv? the cv is 100x6 and i think the 911 stub axles would work. i think the year range i was looking at was 76-83 or so. im not sure if the splines for the 911 stub axle are the same as the 914-4 has any body looked into this?
Posted by: Porcharu Mar 26 2010, 09:58 PM
OK consider it done. Can't wait to see your car.
Steve
.
OK, we have liftoff. The transmission is in, the car running, and it's all excellent. These are those famous flanges (thanks again, Steve):
Closer view:
The cable shifter and more of the engine cradle:
Engine compartment:
New pedals (easier than modifying the 914 pedals for a hydraulic clutch master):
Cable shifter inside, and the ECU (which will all be covered with an armrest/storage cubby):
And the front heat exchanger for the water-air intercooler:
Most important for anyone reading this thread is that it all works great. The car's in California so I haven't driven it yet, but my sons have and say it's perfect. Shifting is notchy, fast and smooth, just like a normal car. Those are their words, it shifts "like a normal car". I think we've really hit on the perfect combination, retaining all the good qualities of the 914, the reasons I liked this car to begin with, but triple the power with a good strong modern and efficient power train and no extra weight.
This ended up being more work than we initially thought, but the results are super, much better than we expected. We did good. Really really good.
There are more details in http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=102887 thread, and more photos http://photobucket.com/Corinthiano
And Steve, you need to edit the title of this thread. It's not a "Subaru transmission possibliity". It's real.
.
Posted by: brownbear May 31 2010, 03:24 AM
hey i'm new to the 914/subaru world, I have a 76 914, ready to start swapping in my 93 ej22t and 95 fwd 5 spd. I'm still thinking about the axle solutions and haven't decided which way to go yet. I have built my shifter using a 2002 dodge neon cable shifter, similar to a dsm. has anyone run into any bumps I should know about and I'm also wondering about options for motor and trans mounts, any suggestions on shortcuts. i've seen the mounts from smallcar, looks like an easy way to skip some steps. will these clear a turbo's manifolds?
Posted by: J P Stein May 31 2010, 08:14 AM
To take the next step up the XP ladder, the shitbox is gonna need a serious power infusion. The 2 valve motor just can't get where we need to go because cost IS an object....as is engine size. The SCCA (in it's wisdom 
) has a multiplier of only 1.4 for boosted engines so a 2.0L TT Subie would equal 2.8L for classing purposes. The last top flight XP car we came across was a supercharged Beemer packing 500 hp. I wouldn't mind being down 100-150 hp, but gawdamn, double is a bit much. Annihilation is the operative word here.
Autocross is a game of mid range torque and a twin turbo Subi would seem to be the ticket to get the job done. I have heard rumors of a TT JDM Subi motor..anyone got a handle on that? I'm thinkin' the 901 will hold up as we don't use first gear and the tires aren't gonna grow all that much..for now.
Posted by: DBCooper May 31 2010, 09:36 AM
You probably don't want the Japanese twin turbo, those turbos are serial, not parallel, and I don't think ever worked that well anyway. Good news is that to can do what you want and keep it simpler. The later 2.0 STI engines made 300hp stock. With forged pistons and some general upgrading (cams, larger injectors and boost) they get a generally dependable and everyday drivable 400 hp. Engine as little as $5-6000 total if you're careful and work at it, more if you want. Would that work?
The Subaru turbos shouldn't break the 901. They're all about mid-rpm torque, and it's not banging brutal like a V8.
Posted by: d914 May 31 2010, 10:37 AM
the tt motors are cheap and outfront has the header to make this work.. Two small turbos feeding one intake.. With the after market computer its a piece of cake.. I want to do a dune bugg this way.... The out put is still in the 280-300 range.. 
Posted by: effutuo101 May 31 2010, 11:16 AM
Great work. clean and tidy. I can't wait to see it in person.
Posted by: d914 May 31 2010, 11:36 AM
oh not mine....looks like fun though..I have a single turbo
Posted by: stephenaki May 31 2010, 11:53 AM
Very, very nice. I'm jealous! I still have a few years before I down the path of a complete resto-mod but your work definitely has given me some ideas when I am ready.
Posted by: J P Stein May 31 2010, 12:49 PM
You probably don't want the Japanese twin turbo, those turbos are serial, not parallel, and I don't think ever worked that well anyway. Good news is that to can do what you want and keep it simpler. The later 2.0 STI engines made 300hp stock. With forged pistons and some general upgrading (cams, larger injectors and boost) they get a generally dependable and everyday drivable 400 hp. Engine as little as $5-6000 total if you're careful and work at it, more if you want. Would that work?
The Subaru turbos shouldn't break the 901. They're all about mid-rpm torque, and it's not banging brutal like a V8.
Sure, only 100hp down works just fine. Still in the research sage and single turbo dyno sheets look good to me. The 2.0L is a JDM engine and the "beef" is needed.
Come winter you just may see a conversion kit for 4 to 6 FS....complete with aux. oil cooler & all.
Posted by: charliew Jun 5 2010, 11:58 PM
A little correction on the 300hp sti, it's a 2.5. TT jdm 2.0 was between 240 -280 depending on which body style and tranny and year and on higher octane fuel in japan. A 2.5 sti with forged internals, bigger valves, ported heads, cams, springs and retainers, bigger injectors, bigger rotated turbo external wastegate and standalone ecu with a good air cooler is gonna knock the heck out of 9k probably if you assemble and tune it yourself. In other words no labor.
2.5 with forged internals- 2000.00 minimum, pistons are 500 and rods are 500 but stock are ok, you gotta bore it or try to use drop in pistons bearings are 200 head gaskets are 100 oil pump is 100-150
usdm 2.5 acvs heads with bigger valves and ported 2000.00 jdm heads have bigger ports to start with but they have 2.0 chambers
springs retainers and cams 1500.00
injectors 600-800.00
30r turbo to make about 29 lbs boost 1200.00
goodheader 400.00
wastegate 150.00
arp head studs 150.00
intercooler or water intercooler 200.00 not counting plumbing
fuel pump 125
ati front balancer to keep hormonics out of oil pump 400.00
ecu 1500.00-2500.00
aquamist to keep boost safe and run more timing 800.00
these prices are mostly low
This motor will make 425-450 at the wheels at 7k maybe more on a good cool day with a good tuner pushing it but to be safe with getting gas everywhere 400 hp at the wheels for sure.
also oil dissapears in suby turbo motors more than inline or v motors so a bigger oil pan would help save some money down the road.
Posted by: J P Stein Jun 6 2010, 08:50 AM
A little correction on the 300hp sti, it's a 2.5. TT jdm 2.0 was between 240 -280 depending on which body style and tranny and year and on higher octane fuel in japan. A 2.5 sti with forged internals, bigger valves, ported heads, cams, springs and retainers, bigger injectors, bigger rotated turbo external wastegate and standalone ecu with a good air cooler is gonna knock the heck out of 9k probably if you assemble and tune it yourself. In other words no labor.
Thanks for the info. The 2.0L is still the target....this keeps the total car weight down ...class rules & all. I've found an outfit in Canada (via Ebay) that is selling them.
Even your estimated price is way cheep compared to 400 bhp Porsche engine prices and none of those fit the class requirements/needs for a light car.
Jerking out/selling the 6 and all the accoutrements makes your price about a wash.....just a lot of work. An RX7 turbo motor is also a possibility.....but I hate the sound of the things and torque is not their strong point.
Posted by: DBCooper Jun 6 2010, 09:33 AM
Charlie, are you sure about those US spec horsepower numbers? I've always understood that the 04-06 2.0 liter STI's were 300hp/300ft/lbs torque. I just looked it up and that seems right. Then they didn't change those ratings with the 2.5 engines. Am I misunderstanding something?
J P, could I make a suggestion? You're free to ignore it, of course, that's fine. Why don't you see what a stock 2.0 STI motor will do before you start breathing on it? The conversion is a lot of work anyway to get things right, and I think you may end up be more competitive with that BMW than you think. Don't forget that the STI motor is already a lot lighter than your six, which will probably change your suspension/handling too. The suggestion would be to start out learning with a pretty much stock engine, see where you are and what breaks, then go from there. Only one big change at a time.
Posted by: J P Stein Jun 6 2010, 10:29 AM
Charlie, are you sure about those US spec horsepower numbers? I've always understood that the 04-06 2.0 liter STI's were 300hp/300ft/lbs torque. I just looked it up and that seems right. Then they didn't change those ratings with the 2.5 engines. Am I misunderstanding something?
J P, could I make a suggestion? You're free to ignore it, of course, that's fine. Why don't you see what a stock 2.0 STI motor will do before you start breathing on it? The conversion is a lot of work anyway to get things right, and I think you may end up be more competitive with that BMW than you think. Don't forget that the STI motor is already a lot lighter than your six, which will probably change your suspension/handling too. The suggestion would be to start out learning with a pretty much stock engine, see where you are and what breaks, then go from there. Only one big change at a time.
While I agree with your "one big change at a time", 300 ponies is not enough.
The weight issue is moot. We already have to ballast up to XP.....lighter (I don't know enough to debate that) means more ballast. Folks that haven't picked up a Porsche 6 always over estimate it's weight ...my son picked up the 2.7 & loaded it onto the engine stand...he's strong, but only had half of it.
The 2.8L effective size (2.0L X 1.4) means more ballast.....22 lbs. If it is a good deal lighter there is always E Mod. How much does the Subi motor weigh... with all the shittage? I figure the oil to water cooling change will be about a push. Actually mounting the engine appears to favor the 6 weightwise.....a lot of ughknowns at present.
I don't do things half assed. It will be a challenge or it wouldn't be any fun.
Posted by: Porcharu Jun 6 2010, 02:29 PM
From my blog - The Suby engine is 236 pounds plus 18 pounds for the fuel supply and injectors, alternator and bracket plus the throttle body. This is for a 2005 2.5 NA so add a bit for the turbo stuff. This also includes the stock heavy flywheel and pressure plate, so you could easily loose 15-20 pounds.
Posted by: J P Stein Jun 6 2010, 04:29 PM
Humm.....E Mod. The 2.5L Subi is a lot easier to come by.....a 3.5 L equivalent....
1800 LBS minimum *with driver*. The XP & E Mod top dogs are both tough but E Mod looks like the better chance.
Posted by: charliew Jun 6 2010, 08:17 PM
Paul my son has a 04 suby sti domestic model. It is 2.5 with 300 hp and torque but that is at the crank not the wheels. The nasioc guys say about 240 -260 at the wheels stock at 17 psi boost stock. Even the newer wrx's are 2.5 but now the sti has dual avcs (both cams are controlled, the 04 only had the intake variable control) I'm not sure if the wrx has that, it may be like the 04 sti. I'm thinking the wrx has a lower power rating even though it's a 2.5. Now the japanese domestic market sti stuff may have been 2.0 in 04 and 300hp. I'm not up on late jdm subys. I remember they have a twinscroll turbo for faster spooling and spin higher, maybe because they are 2.0, but I don't remember the numbers. I am sure though that factory numbers are stated at the crank. My son has over 13,000 above the new car price of 32k in 04 in his car and it's making over 400 at the wheels but it is not the original motor, it's on a stand in my garage for him to keep if he ever wants to go back to stock. I'm not going to start over but I think the turbo suby six is the way to go in the 914. I'll be happy with what I have already accumulated to go in mine.
Oh yeah the suby stock cast iron exhaust manifolds are really heavy some weight can be saved there also.
I also see where megasquirt now has a patch board that will make the ms a more or less plug and play for a usdm suby engine harness. 425 for the ecu with the right female connectors for the suby harness. I didn't see it but I bet that it will also cover the suby ignition and the ford edis and the add on 36-1 wheel won't be needed.
Oh yeah the stock 04 sti also runs out of stuff about 6800, that will affect the race characterists as far as rpm range, it will spin further but looses power, 6800 is the stock good shift point. The sti was a six speed so it will be different depending on the tranny used also.
I think the 05 turbo legacy 5spd awd tranny has the best parts but it may be geared too low for a light 914 but it will have the strongest stock gears to date.
Posted by: Heater Guy Jul 4 2011, 08:24 PM
Here is my set up for the cable shifter
Did you use a hydraulic or cable for the clutch?
Posted by: jimkelly Nov 18 2011, 08:04 AM
per the 914 suby wiki ...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=110990&hl=outback
i think i'll be going (like bigkat did) with the sub cv at the trans side, 911 axle machined for it, and 911 cv/flange/hub on the wheel side since i have 108mm flanges and hubs in my garage already.
http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/cv_joints_101.htm
** see this ** suby to 930 108mm cv flanges : ))
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=129364&sid=95a56fc40888ff80d92764cfa91ba880&start=15
http://www.subarugears.com/
jim
Posted by: matthepcat Nov 18 2011, 11:19 AM
Jim,
I have a set of bus axles and CV's (with RH adapters), and have converted to 944 & machined 914 axles.
I don't think there is a dimensional difference between the bus & 944 CV.
That being said, you could always use a 100mm 911 stub axle with a 911 hub and spacer.
By spacer I mean this (Disregard the stub axle in the picture...that's a 944 stub):
Posted by: matthepcat Nov 18 2011, 11:28 AM
Then you would use the spacer between the hub and bearing:
Posted by: Porcharu Jun 30 2013, 01:08 AM
My machinist has two more sets of the 'magic flanges' left over from the last run. Make me an offer and I will see if he is willing to let them go.
Steve
Posted by: blitZ Jun 30 2013, 06:21 AM
Are these the spacers needed to connect 911 stub axles to 944 CVs? I'll take them. How much?
Posted by: Porcharu Jul 1 2013, 05:33 PM
No - take a look at my blog 1st picture is of the flanges for sale.
Posted by: jaxdream Jul 1 2013, 09:52 PM
The spacers are used to adapt the later SC hub centric flange not the earlier 911 wheel hub . The 911 100mm flange will work with both wheel hub flanges , just have to put a spacer ( 5mm ) on the Sc flange before you install into the bearing. Then after that you have to choose if you want to run 108mm CVs or 100mm Cvs. BTW the 911 stub has the same spline as a 944 ( 951 part number ) , you could use the 951 stub as pictured before , it would stick out towards the tranny that amount that is pictured , or haver it machined off , either way it will seat up against the bearing . Check the classifieds here , I have 108mm and 100mm wheel stubs for sale if you are in the market for that part of the equation.
Jack
Posted by: blitZ Jul 2 2013, 04:25 PM
If I have the 944 CVs and the early 100mm 911 stub axles, I don't need the 5mm spacer? Still trying to figure this out.
The spacers are used to adapt the later SC hub centric flange not the earlier 911 wheel hub . The 911 100mm flange will work with both wheel hub flanges , just have to put a spacer ( 5mm ) on the Sc flange before you install into the bearing. Then after that you have to choose if you want to run 108mm CVs or 100mm Cvs. BTW the 911 stub has the same spline as a 944 ( 951 part number ) , you could use the 951 stub as pictured before , it would stick out towards the tranny that amount that is pictured , or haver it machined off , either way it will seat up against the bearing . Check the classifieds here , I have 108mm and 100mm wheel stubs for sale if you are in the market for that part of the equation.
Jack
Posted by: pcar916 Jul 2 2013, 04:56 PM
If I have the 944 CVs and the early 100mm 911 stub axles, I don't need the 5mm spacer?
Correct
Posted by: jaxdream Jul 3 2013, 12:53 PM
You only need the 5mm spacer if you use the SC ( later ) type wheel hub with the hub centric ears on it , if you are using early ( 69- 73 ? ) wheel hubs no hub centric ears you're ok as they mount in the same bearing as 914 wheel hubs. Yu could use the 911 100mm CVs if you use 911 axles spaced at the needed length being you are using a subie trans . The 911 100mm CVs use a larger ball size than the 944 Cvs 5/8" vs 3/4 or 7/8 " , I'll have to measure again as I have 944 CVs and 911 CVs at 100mm. Plan onusing the 911s becaues I have the CVs ( 100mm ) and axles that are good , just got to get 3/4"" spacers for the trans side as I also have the course spline 100mm trans stubs for a 901 / 914 trans . BUT my trans part doesn't fit your subie trans . Get them there magic flanges while you can , the 911 parts are easier to get , and more common.
Jack
Posted by: jaxdream Jul 3 2013, 01:14 PM
Can you show a pic of the wheel hub that you are going to use ??? and if it's a redrilled 914 hub to 5 lug setup , the 911 stub won't work as the 914 and 911 used a different spline count / size .
Jack
Posted by: blitZ Jul 3 2013, 02:49 PM
It's a 911 hub and already on the car.
Can you show a pic of the wheel hub that you are going to use ??? and if it's a redrilled 914 hub to 5 lug setup , the 911 stub won't work as the 914 and 911 used a different spline count / size .
Jack
Posted by: jaxdream Jul 3 2013, 09:56 PM
You good to go then , get the 944 CVs , proper length axles , trass flanges that will accept what cv you decide , install and Goooo !!
Jack
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