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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Better late than never
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 06:51 PM
Air intake temp sensor.
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 06:52 PM
Fast idle solenoid.
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 06:53 PM
TPS
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 06:57 PM
Injector resistors
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 06:58 PM
Map sensor
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 06:59 PM
Cold start injector block off plate.
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 07:01 PM
Mixture meter
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 07:02 PM
Rich / Lean adjustment knob
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 07:03 PM
Programer
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 07:05 PM
Backpad removed and carpeted
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 07:07 PM
ECM , fuse block and relays
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Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 07:17 PM
I have been driving the car with the SDS all summer
and couldn't be happier.
I have not had the car on a dyno to be expertly tuned.
I tuned it myself with the narrow band o2 sensor and the mixture metre
and by sound and feel. It starts and runs perfect every time.
I'm sure that if I got it tuned professionally it would be even better.
It's a nice simple system. I would recommend it to anyone.
Posted by: lapuwali Nov 14 2005, 07:20 PM
Do you have any CHT or EGT data on your setup? Typically, these engines tend to run pretty hot when tuned to run at stoich.
Posted by: Kerrys914 Nov 14 2005, 07:30 PM
VERY nice. Looks very well thought out and installed...The mark of a pro 
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 07:31 PM
| QUOTE (lapuwali @ Nov 14 2005, 08:20 PM) |
| Do you have any CHT or EGT data on your setup? Typically, these engines tend to run pretty hot when tuned to run at stoich. |
Unfortunately there is no extensive data logging with the SDS.
http://www.sdsefi.com/datalog.htm
I do have a cylinder temp gauge and it usually runs about 275 to 300.
My oil temp gauge is a factory gauge and it usually runs around the "T".
Posted by: jsteele22 Nov 14 2005, 07:37 PM
Nice job, Ray. Looks like a super sharp car you've got there. I've got an SDS system lying around that I plan to put in along w/ a Suby 2.5L engine. I'm glad to hear that your experience was so straightforward and positive. I'll be sure and keep you in mind when I (eventually) get around to messing with it.
p.s. Any shots fo your Hall sensor/magnet install ? Probably impossible to see it now.
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 07:41 PM
| QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Nov 14 2005, 08:37 PM) |
| Nice job, Ray. Looks like a super sharp car you've got there. I've got an SDS system lying around that I plan to put in along w/ a Suby 2.5L engine. I'm glad to hear that your experience was so straightforward and positive. I'll be sure and keep you in mind when I (eventually) get around to messing with it. p.s. Any shots fo your Hall sensor/magnet install ? Probably impossible to see it now. |
It's a fuel only system (EM4D)
I will eventually get a Jake Raby Mallory.
I wanted to keep it simple.
There is some pictures of Mark Henry's SDS install with ignition on the forum.
Do a search on SDS and you will find it.
Posted by: lapuwali Nov 14 2005, 07:52 PM
| QUOTE (Ray Warren @ Nov 14 2005, 05:31 PM) | ||
Unfortunately there is no extensive data logging with the SDS. http://www.sdsefi.com/datalog.htm I do have a cylinder temp gauge and it usually runs about 275 to 300. My oil temp gauge is a factory gauge and it usually runs around the "T". |
I assume you're running off a thermocouple under the spark plug for the CHT? If so, then you're in great shape, and it looks like the usual rule of thumb about running hot near stoich may not be true.
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 08:06 PM
| QUOTE (lapuwali @ Nov 14 2005, 08:52 PM) | ||||
I assume you're running off a thermocouple under the spark plug for the CHT? If so, then you're in great shape, and it looks like the usual rule of thumb about running hot near stoich may not be true. |
Yes I do have the spark plug type sender but I do not know if
I am running at stoich. I would suspect it would be close to stoich.
Using the narow band o2 sensor and mixture metre is not accurate.
I would like to get it tuned with a wide band metre. (maybe next year)
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 14 2005, 08:12 PM
CORRECTION
I just went out to the garage and looked at my temp gauge.
It usually runs around 300 to 325.
Posted by: lapuwali Nov 14 2005, 09:05 PM
| QUOTE (Ray Warren @ Nov 14 2005, 06:12 PM) |
| CORRECTION I just went out to the garage and looked at my temp gauge. It usually runs around 300 to 325. |
Still, as long as you're under 350, you're fine. A narrowband meter is reasonably accurate at stoich. It's when you try to tune a car away from stoich that things get hairy. If you've tuned it to run in the stoich range on the meter, you're likely within 0.5 point of 14.7:1. SDS sells a wide-band unit now, and then you can tune for 13.5:1 at WOT, and probably pick up a bit of power.
Posted by: airsix Nov 15 2005, 02:11 PM
Ray,
Looks really good. Tell me about the cold-start solenoid. What's it off of, and will the ECU cycle it to hold a programmed idle rpm?
-Ben M.
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 15 2005, 06:00 PM
| QUOTE (airsix @ Nov 15 2005, 03:11 PM) |
| Ray, Looks really good. Tell me about the cold-start solenoid. What's it off of, and will the ECU cycle it to hold a programmed idle rpm? -Ben M. |
It's actually a fuel tank selector solenoid.
I bought it separate from the kit but it is exactly the same
one that is an option from SDS.
Yes it is controled by the ECM and can be set to any temp
that you want. (It is ON or OFF only, it is not a motor).
Works perfectly.
For engines with stock FI there many types of solenoids like this that can be used if your stock AAR is not working.
You would have to use a toggle switch with it though.
Posted by: Mueller Nov 15 2005, 06:02 PM
what a clean install...makes me want to delete all my pictures of my FI install 
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 15 2005, 06:20 PM
| QUOTE (airsix @ Nov 15 2005, 03:11 PM) |
| and will the ECU cycle it to hold a programmed idle rpm? -Ben M. |
I should explain this a little better.
You set the temp in the ECM at what point you want the
solenoid to close.
The high idle rpm is set by reducing or enlarging the
ID size of the hose you are using.(thus creating a larger or smaller vacume leak)
I used 3/8 ID hose and put a 3/8 OD x 1/4 ID bronze
bushing inside the hose and it high idles at 1500/1600 rpm.
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 15 2005, 06:20 PM
Looks good Ray!
Glad things are working out for you, helps having a nice fresh engine 
If your narrow band is off like mine it was running rich...hows the gas mileage?
Who needs data logging. 
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 15 2005, 06:32 PM
| QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Nov 15 2005, 07:20 PM) |
| Looks good Ray! Glad things are working out for you, helps having a nice fresh engine If your narrow band is off like mine it was running rich...hows the gas mileage? Who needs data logging. |
Hello Mark
Engine runs great.
(one very small oil leak, inner end of one push rod tube I think)
Fuel mileage is not as good as it was with the stock FI
but it's still pretty good.
For what I use the car for it dosn't matter.
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 15 2005, 06:45 PM
You need a WB...Your mileage should be better than stock, your power would be better too.
We'll figure out something next spring...maybe a small rental charge plus shipping and you can use my WB...you would only need it for a week.
Once it's set up on a WB your NB will be totally useless.
Posted by: Ray Warren Nov 15 2005, 06:50 PM
| QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Nov 15 2005, 07:45 PM) |
| You need a WB...Your mileage should be better than stock, your power would be better too. We'll figure out something next spring...maybe a small rental charge plus shipping and you can use my WB...you would only need it for a week. Once it's set up on a WB your NB will be totally useless. |
Sounds good to me.
Posted by: airsix Nov 16 2005, 12:18 AM
Thanks for the info, Ray. Really nice work.
-Ben M.
Posted by: toon1 Nov 16 2005, 04:41 PM
does this system replace the factory brain? do you use stock fuel injectors?
Posted by: lapuwali Nov 16 2005, 05:20 PM
| QUOTE (toon1 @ Nov 16 2005, 02:41 PM) |
| does this system replace the factory brain? do you use stock fuel injectors? |
More than just the factory ECU, it also removes the need for the expensive and impossible to repair MPS. You can use the stock injectors, throttle body, plenum, and runners. For SDS, you'd need to replace the air temp and TPS sensors. I'm not sure what you'd do for the CHT.
There are several ECUs you can use for this, SDS, Perfect Power, Link, and Megasquirt (plus others, I'm sure). SDS seems to be a nice system with good support, and there are now several 914s running it.
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 16 2005, 05:45 PM
| QUOTE (lapuwali @ Nov 16 2005, 07:20 PM) |
| I'm not sure what you'd do for the CHT. |
This is one of the bonus points about the SDS
You use the factory stock sensor (you get a new one N/C) in the stock location.
The owner of SDS is an airplane nut and they have many homebuilts running the SDS system.
Posted by: jsteele22 Nov 17 2005, 11:27 AM
| QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Nov 15 2005, 05:45 PM) |
| Once it's set up on a WB your NB will be totally useless. |
Mark,
I'm curious about this. Are you saying that after a week or so of "dialing in" the car with a WB sensor, that you would just run open loop (no O2 sensor feedback) ? Or is more of a case of it being so much better you'd never go back ?
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 17 2005, 11:35 AM
Once set-up with a wide band it will be out of the narrow bands range...it won't give any reading accept maybe a blip on decel.
I've tried closed loop, I didn't like it because it runs too close to stoch. The aircooled has better head temps running in the high 12's.
Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 17 2005, 11:40 AM
I run closed loop in the 912 with my SDS and it works great. I just set it up to only be active at cruise speeds and stable MP. The engine runs so cool all the time (250F) That I can afford a bit more temp anyway.
I LOVE SDS!
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 17 2005, 11:47 AM
Yeh I didn't play with the closed loop a whole lot, running too good open.
What did you do Jake? Put the value at over 3000rpm?
Anyways it doesn't matter now as I think my season is done...were getting snow today...as soon as the salt trucks come out it's game over till spring.
Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 17 2005, 01:56 PM
It comes on at 3250 and goes off at 3600 the MP is at about 10.9-11.6 so the target area that its functional is a very small window where I cruise at between 70-80 MPH in 5th
I had to watch EGT more than head temp when doing this because if they creep up 2 liter heads are bad about exhaust seats pockets drooping and then the valve job is wated
Posted by: jsteele22 Nov 17 2005, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the info, guys. Always love to learn more about this. So in closed loop mode, does the SDS always pull you back towards stoich, even with the new wideband firmware ? Or can you set it to maintain a different AFR ? The model I have is the previous generation (SDS-EM3, IIRC) that didn't have that option. Although I'm pretty stoked about getting it set up (if I ever get my new engine...), I'm pretty tempted to sell the SDS and go with megasquirt; I'm real into electronics and embedded controllers, so it's right up my alley.
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