Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Supercharging a 914?
Posted by: NeunXIV Nov 15 2005, 09:51 PM
Does anyone know if it is possible to supercharge *or turbo* a carburated 4 cylinder 2.0L? If anyone knows anything on this subject, please let me know. Thanks
-Chris
Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 15 2005, 10:02 PM
Yep- Can be done and I have done it a few times...
You run into the same design flaws with the engine as with Turbo- basically boost is limited by what can be kept in the chambers without leaking by the heads..
do some searches- The search function is your friend!
In two weeks I plan on *MELTING* 3 engines under boost on the dyno as I kick off a solid year of Turbo R&D!
Posted by: NeunXIV Nov 15 2005, 10:05 PM
So what's involved in setting up a supercharger? I'm trying to find out as much as I can to make it all the easier, since I now know it's possible. Let me know. Thanks
-Chris
Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 15 2005, 10:19 PM
Hmmn, Do you have access to a machine shop? welding equipment?
If not you might wanna reconsider- nothing is off the shelf when doing this....
The Supercharger I have used a couple of times is from a Ford Thunderbird called Eaton M-62
Its far from a bolt on affair.
Posted by: NeunXIV Nov 15 2005, 10:26 PM
Yeah I figured it wasn't going to be an easy process. As far as a machine shop and welding equipment, my dad has a friend that mentioned he had some machining equipment. Still haven't gotten around to seeing what he actually has. I'll have to do that now, since I really have a need to. I'm not sure if this kind of thing could be explained over the internet, but like I said, I'm trying to make it as easy as possible to get this set up going and hopefully working sometime later on. Again, any help is very helpful. Thanks
-Chris
*do you have any pics of a currently supercharged 914 motor?*
Posted by: Mueller Nov 15 2005, 11:04 PM
| QUOTE (NeunXIV @ Nov 15 2005, 09:26 PM) |
| ........... like I said, I'm trying to make it as easy as possible to get this set up going and hopefully working sometime later on. Again, any help is very helpful. Thanks -Chris *do you have any pics of a currently supercharged 914 motor?* |
1st thing to do is "remove" carburator from your vocabulary
I know pictures have been posted before, yet no luck in finding them....I guess best bet is to close your eyes and picture this supercharger sitting on top of the motor...the belt would be driven off a pulley that is in between the fan and the motor....there was a company in FL many, many years ago that installed a supercharger and might have made a kit, but I have never seen anything about it except some really poor pictures printed in VW & Porsche magazine 20 years ago.
Best bet it spend $23 for SUPERCHARGED, by Corky Bell available at amazon.com
Attached image(s)
Posted by: NeunXIV Nov 16 2005, 01:08 AM
Ok I'll look into that. Thanks
-Chris
Posted by: 914rrr Nov 16 2005, 11:45 AM
This was covered not too long ago (April 05). Search 'supercharger'. I posted part of the VW & Porsche magazine article and pics of the supercharger install. It looks like the supercharger w/ carb would be easier to do than a turbo, since you could use a single Holley carb and manifold set up and slide a supercharger in between the carb and manifold. The motor in the article was substantially beefed up to handle the extra stress of boost. Putting it together is one thing, KEEPING it together is another...
Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 16 2005, 11:50 AM
With the rights thoughts and components it will stay together... But its not cheap!
Don't expect to bolt it on and be happy the first time around- Not for the faint of heart or slim wallet-
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Nov 16 2005, 02:26 PM
This is the only photo of a supercharged T4 I have (I think this is actaully a T3?):
Attached image(s)
Posted by: jd74914 Nov 16 2005, 02:29 PM
supercharger on a T4
Attached image(s)
Posted by: jd74914 Nov 16 2005, 02:31 PM
Last one. If anyone knows where these came from please enlighten me. 
I wish I had more, esp. since I don't know anything specific about the pictured engines
Attached image(s)
Posted by: GTeener Nov 16 2005, 02:31 PM
Has anyone put a turbo in an MFI 6 teener? 
Posted by: Mueller Nov 16 2005, 02:38 PM
| QUOTE (jd74914 @ Nov 16 2005, 01:31 PM) |
| Last one. If anyone knows where these came from please enlighten me. I wish I had more, esp. since I don't know anything specific about the pictured engines |
the second picture is from the magazine article, company name was something like RPM Motorsports in Florida (no longer around, someone tried looking them up)
Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 16 2005, 02:41 PM
I like the one with the progressive carb! Hell that carb won't even flow 175 CFM- Its not even enough for a stock 2 liter N/A engine!
Posted by: banksyinoz Nov 16 2005, 02:42 PM
have used the toyota inline 6 supercharger (soarer , its bigger than the corolla) they have a clutch on the front and run a mulit rib belt, a mate has one on his buick v6 and my god its fun, we also put one on a 12a rotary with a side draft webber ,had the charger mounted so the flow ran across instead of down this also ran very well
Posted by: SLITS Nov 16 2005, 03:36 PM
My thoughts were to machine a plenum out of aluminum block and mount the MB Kompressor Supercharger on it, stock plenum runners and a DCOE off the intake side of the supercharger.
Alas, no longer have access to a mill........
Just a dream though
Posted by: NeunXIV Nov 17 2005, 07:21 PM
So it seems like this is a lot easier with a single carb? I'm running dual 40's right now. Hmm I guess this is gonna be a long time project to try out hehe.
-Chris
Posted by: Mueller Nov 17 2005, 07:26 PM
| QUOTE |
| So it seems like this is a lot easier with a single carb? I'm running dual 40's right now. Hmm I guess this is gonna be a long time project to try out hehe. -Chris |
NO CARBURETOR(s)....period !!!!!
If you are going to spend the time, money and effort, use programmable electronic fuel injection.....PEFI can be built for less than $500...you can sell your carbs for that amount or even more..........
Posted by: Andyrew Nov 17 2005, 07:45 PM
Fuel injection is the way to go if your doing this. BTW... Dual carbs would be like putting salt on the wound because of the added complexity...
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Nov 17 2005, 07:55 PM
| QUOTE (bowlsby @ Nov 16 2005, 12:26 PM) |
| This is the only photo of a supercharged T4 I have (I think this is actaully a T3?): |
Naaahhh, it's a T4. T3 shroud is a BUNCH different. The Cap'n
Posted by: Brando Nov 18 2005, 12:43 PM
| QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Nov 15 2005, 08:19 PM) |
| Hmmn, Do you have access to a machine shop? welding equipment? If not you might wanna reconsider- nothing is off the shelf when doing this.... The Supercharger I have used a couple of times is from a Ford Thunderbird called Eaton M-62 Its far from a bolt on affair. |
I was planning on the eaton M-62 as well. Make up your own manifold to bolt to the bottom (just line the outlets up with stock 2.0L runners). Then do your TB/intercooler. Or be like jake and maybe design a whole bolt-on manifold
Posted by: fiid Nov 18 2005, 01:27 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Nov 17 2005, 05:26 PM) |
| NO CARBURETOR(s)....period !!!!! If you are going to spend the time, money and effort, use programmable electronic fuel injection.....PEFI can be built for less than $500...you can sell your carbs for that amount or even more.......... |
The control you have with a real EFI system is just epic. It beats twiddling screws until it sounds right or filing the needle profile down a bit.
I think a supercharger on a TypeIV would be an awesome setup - don't have to mess with all the exhaust plumbing.
What charger does the Mini Cooper S have on it - that might probably be pretty much ideal for a 1.7 motor??
Fiid.
Posted by: 75boxster Nov 18 2005, 02:16 PM
Lysholm Twin Screw off a Corrado and I'm really only trying to make up for 6,000ft elevation. Like everyone else, a work in progress.
Posted by: gopack Nov 18 2005, 02:50 PM
I'm not suer , but didn't the corrado have ahte (in)famous "G-lader" scroll pump style supercharger? mine did! I've always thought that woudl be a nice way to boost a teener!
Posted by: jkeyzer Nov 18 2005, 03:21 PM
| QUOTE (GTeener @ Nov 16 2005, 12:31 PM) |
| Has anyone put a turbo in an MFI 6 teener? |
MFI is not made to handle turbocharging. It sends a fixed amount of fuel to the motor based on rpm and throttle position, manifold pressure is not included in the "calculation" (if you can even call it that).
You could add a vacuum control solenoid to the MFI pump but that sounds really awkward...
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 18 2005, 03:58 PM
| QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Nov 17 2005, 09:55 PM) | ||
Naaahhh, it's a T4. T3 shroud is a BUNCH different. The Cap'n |
The thing that throws you off is what looks like a header (lower right) that's coming out like on a T1 (or T3).
Posted by: GTeener Nov 18 2005, 04:08 PM
| QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Nov 18 2005, 01:21 PM) | ||
MFI is not made to handle turbocharging. It sends a fixed amount of fuel to the motor based on rpm and throttle position, manifold pressure is not included in the "calculation" (if you can even call it that). You could add a vacuum control solenoid to the MFI pump but that sounds really awkward... |
Oh well.... Thanks for the answer
Posted by: 75boxster Nov 19 2005, 02:11 AM
You are correct, the Corrado had the fragile G-Ladder. The donor car I bought had a retro fit Lysholm charger installed. Bullet proof compard to the VW charger. It may just be easier to convert to the 1.8 inline from the Corrado!
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)