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Posted by: nine14cats Aug 17 2003, 10:44 PM

Hey Gang,

Unfortunately sitting here killing time between meetings in Taiwan....yes Taiwan...I had to make an unexpected 2 WEEK trip to asia for work that forced me to pull out of a Thunderhill Time Trial last weekend. I won't be home until the day before a 2 day zone 7 auto-x. I should be nice and fresh for that one.

Anyway...I need suggestions for putting my car on a diet. I've already looked at the rules and the proposed rules and the maybe proposed rules for my zone, and I'm not scared about taking some weight out. My car is:

1974 914-6 2.7 ~250HP 901
15x7 all around with 23x9x15 racing slicks (hoosiers and goodyears, still testing)
f/g flaired fenders from bontempi at HPH.
full cage, racing seats, oil cooler up front, etc.
f/g bumpers

The rest of the car is metal....so...what can I cut out/take out to lighten the car and make it go faster? I was thinking:

front hood/rear hood to f/g
do I cut metal out of my doors or just get f/g doors? ($$$$ouch!)
wiper/ventilation system motors....tear em out?

And how about all that metal in the rear trunk? I've seen cars with it all cut out and cross bracing put in....is it really a weight savings being that you have to add the braces?

Just thinking ahead....I like to plan early and I'm already making a list of projects for the winter.

oh...for reference...the car with me driving posted 1:53's at Laguna Seca....(hey...it's my first year auto-xing and time trialing... ) but with an instructor driving, we were turning 1:44's in it with 2 of us, which would have won my class (GM) by over a second that weekend...In other words...the car is capable.

I love this board for it's help. The car's parts and setup are largely based on the help I receive from this board...and it really makes a difference. In our first year...our car (my wife drives with me!) is very competitive. At auto-x's we are generally in the top 5 consistently...basically with setups provided by this board (Brad helps alot!).

So...help me somemore! Besides....I'm bored to tears over here in between customer meetings....

Thanks,

Bill P.



f/g

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 17 2003, 10:53 PM

Sounds to me as if you are headed the right direction. I round filed all the heater stuff. The expansion tank is gone. I'm looking at the doors. Gutting them would be ....well, I dunno. I'm right on the edge of this thing becoming a non-street car.

My class limit (minimum) is 2100 lbs. My best WAG is that I'm 100 lbs over that. What does yours weigh?

BTW, I'm thinkin' slicks again. I hear the Goodyears like 0 camber. What about the Hoosiers?....I've *heard*(an unreliable source) that they like a fair amount of negative camber.

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 17 2003, 11:01 PM

Hi JP,

Given that I've added a 6 to it and a cage, but cut the fenders...the car is probably at stock weight at the moment...that' why I think there is plenty of performance to be gained if I cut out weight safely and sanely....

My car is already track only...so I don't have to worry about the street again...I've already reconciled that I'll never sell it when I'm done for anything close to the investment...but then again...I don't plan on ever selling it!

The doors seem to weight alot...they feel over 50lbs each or more...so I'm thinking they could result in a substantial weight savings...

Bill P.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Aug 17 2003, 11:03 PM

What kind of door bars do you have Bill ??

I say run some 914 fiberglass "skins" for doors IF you have some nice cross braces in the door area.

One of our members (URY) has some really good pics of how he lightened his 914.

I highly suggest the fiberglass lids (can the headlights and assemblies.. as well as the boxes that surround them.

Depending on where your cage attaches.. you can lose the targa bar and replace it with a INDENTICAL fiberglass repo.

Lexan windshield $$$ but really really light (450$) replace back window with lexan.

Remove every wire not needed to make the car run and have a single tailight.

B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Aug 17 2003, 11:04 PM

Glad to know the 914club is the "last" place you visit when your bored....LOL


B

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 17 2003, 11:11 PM

Hi B,

I've got a safety devices roll cage in the car...which as a single bolt-in bar on each side....

I know...I know...I could have had Tony C. put one in but I met you guys only weeks after installing the cage....

I was thinking the same thing about the headlights and buckets....it will be on the list for sure...

How about cutting the trunk floor? Good or bad idea?

Thanks,

Bill

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 17 2003, 11:14 PM

B,

ummm...actually it's the first and last place I check during down time when I have network access....

It's just tough to author a coherent message after being in Karoke bars all night...

Your weary 914 traveler,

Bill P.

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 17 2003, 11:18 PM

You're in about the same spot (weight wise, not Chinese wise) as I am. Our cars sound very similar.
If your never going back to the street............I can see 100lbs easy. Get the F/G hood with out the headlight cut-outs and pitch all that stuff....WAG 15 lbs a side &
-10-15 for the hood.
Gut the doors...15-20 lbs per side 74 doors have the beam. F/G rear trunk lid....-20.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Aug 17 2003, 11:19 PM

Cutting the floor is fine... but not much to be gained.

No big deal on the cage.. I just dont want you using door skins without some good side bars.

Buy the one piece front hood that has the headlight covers built in. Buy the skin style... you can pin it on and save the weight of the hinge assemblies. Do the same for the rear.

Buy a tiny battery. We use a Gel cell battery that is about the size of a riding lawnmower battery. We carry a jump box for those warm days that it doesnt like to restart.

Go to a fiberglass skin for the targa top....


B

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 17 2003, 11:25 PM

B,

So the bolt in door bars are okay? I purchased the so-called "scca" approved cage that mounts at all kinds of points...

Is there any issues with aerodynamics at the rear with the trunk floor gone? I don't seem to have an issue with lifting on the tracks.

How many lbs. saved with the Lexan windshield? Where can I look for it on the web?

Thanks,

Bill P.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Aug 17 2003, 11:32 PM

I dont consider them "OK" for use with door skins.. but you can gut the inside of your steel doors.

The name "Spektar" comes to mind for the lexan. I think they are based in Texas now. They where up north near Seattle.

The savings will be on their website. I forget the exact number and dont want to mis-quote.


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Aug 17 2003, 11:42 PM

Here you go:

http://www.spektrproducts.com/


Check with WeberSport in Salinas for fiberglass.


Let me know what they dont have. Roger Sheridan makes everything for our cars.


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Aug 17 2003, 11:43 PM

They moved to Granbury Texas (right near Motorsport ranch south of Ft. Worth off of hwy 377)


B

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 17 2003, 11:48 PM

B,

Thanks for link....I'll look at it.

Bill P.

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 17 2003, 11:54 PM

also, if you haven't done so already, get rid of ALL the sound-dampening and TAR-mats in your car. that's some 30+ pounds right there ...

cutting the rear floor might not save you a lot of weight but it sure makes access to your tranny/clutch/starter MUCH easier
just don't cut the cross-beam that holds the tranny-mounts
you can also cut the part between the shock towers and put a brace in it.
ask Brad for pics of the scotts white car. that'll give you a good idea of what can be done.

what about complete FG quarter panels?

later,
Andy

Posted by: Jeroen Aug 18 2003, 10:17 AM

Ok, most obvious first... rip out anything and everything from the passenger compartment
Everything you don't need: get rid of it! (that includes the dashboard)

Do you still have sidewindows? If you don't need 'em take 'em out of the doors and you can pretty much cut out most of the inner frame from the door.

Get the f/g hoods.

I would cut out the engine/rear trunk fire wall and the trunk floor.
The firewall is a pretty heavy piece, and it will give you a good chance to weld the rear frame rails to the rear shock towers (stiffens/reinforces the rear, helpfull if you run heavy springs).
The bracing you put between the rear shocktowers won't be as heavy as the firewall.

Oh, and don't forget to double check your rules before making any mods

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 03:24 PM

Now here is my kinda topic...

I'll let the pic's speek for themselves.


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Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 03:31 PM

Cut those headlight buckets off.


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Posted by: James Adams Aug 18 2003, 03:33 PM

Paul added so much lightness to his car that he has to have a bungee cord holding the transmission to the floor to keep the car from floating away!

Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 03:39 PM

Here is a shot of the door skin I made. I'll be posting all these door skin shots when I get my painted/completed door in a week or so. I want to show how one is made from the start to the completed product.


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Posted by: Mueller Aug 18 2003, 03:42 PM

Paul,

I am in shock !!!!!

1) I'd replace those steel parts with Aluminum

2) Are those the steel covers??? Remove and cover with plastic units

3) Heavy calipers !!!!

I am not sure how the rules are for you, but the struts can be replaced with aluminum uprights....not cheap or easy, but hey, what fun would it be otherwise???, LOL


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Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 03:50 PM

Mike

1. The aluminum monoballs are coming, but not a big weight advantage.

2. Yes those are the steel covers but they'll be coming off when I take the front end apart to install the monoballs.

3. Those are stock front claipers. If I go to aluminum I'll have to go to heavy vented rotors. Which is better heavy rotors that go 'round and 'round or semi-heavy calipers that don't go 'round?

And aluminum uprights? Big money-it ain't no stinkin' 935!

Paul

Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 03:59 PM

And just cut the whole ass out of it...


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Posted by: Mueller Aug 18 2003, 04:04 PM

You've got to think differently sometimes......you can replace those calipers with aluminium 2 piston calipers (1.4 pounds)...no need for bigger rotors.

All you need to do is replace them with calipers that'll offer the same braking force. No new rotors needed

The caliper shown is for .380" width rotors


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Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 04:07 PM

Real pretty.
And the price?

Paul

Posted by: NickC Aug 18 2003, 04:26 PM

Paul,

They're Wilwood Dynalite's, ballpark is ~$100ea.

Oh, and less rotating weight is the shit...
Nick

Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 04:32 PM

NickC
Welcome!

Let me guess-they don't bolt up to my uprights.

If they are $100 each and don't require alot of work to get them to fit, I'll add them to my shopping list.

Paul

Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 04:44 PM

I looked them up on thier web site.
They may fit. I'm going to measure.

Paul

Posted by: NickC Aug 18 2003, 04:52 PM

No clue if they'll bolt up easily. Don't even have a 914 myself yet, heh. Anybody have a tub I can play with?

Do you have a 911 setup in the front? Seem to recall reading that Brad has a Wilwood/Coleman setup going on with his tube frame car. If your suspension is 911 based, then adapting the caliper to your upright should be easy enough.

Nick

Posted by: URY914 Aug 18 2003, 05:53 PM

Nick,
The 911 setup is too heavy for my needs. Mine's an autox car so I don't need massive brakes where fade is the problem.

Paul

Posted by: NickC Aug 18 2003, 09:47 PM

You know, I've actually followed your project updates with great interest. I'm in the planning phase of my newest project, an E-mod 914....

I've picked Brad's brain a little with regard to the overall setup of the car, but going stir crazy with the details..

Are you going to be running in a specific autocross class, or just having fun? I've deluded myself into the idea that I'll be able to field a nationally competitive car...

Nick

Posted by: Brad Roberts Aug 18 2003, 10:27 PM

Nick...The guy with the car down south is getting ancy. You ready to jump ?? and buy a roller ?? Pay for gas/food and I'll pick it up for you.


B

Posted by: NickC Aug 19 2003, 12:33 PM

Brad,

Check your PM box...

Nick

Posted by: URY914 Aug 19 2003, 01:46 PM

Nick.
I'll be running mostly PCA autox and the cars are clasified on a point system. I'll run some SCCA also.
I don't plan on trailering the car all over the country for 3 minutes of driving. It is not a "national" car or ProSolo car. Just fun.

Paul

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 19 2003, 11:17 PM

Thanks for the pics Paul.

Does anyone know/recommend what diameter and material of tubing to use for reinforcement....or do I just take the whole thing to Tony C.?

The car is used in Auto-X and TT's. I'm not looking to participate past the local level...so it really comes down to making the car fun and safe and being as smart as I can about the class level.

Thanks,

Bill P.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Aug 20 2003, 02:31 AM

TonyC.

The additions wont be too bad... and he has done enough of them that he fully understands where they are weak.

B