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Posted by: Eddie914 Nov 25 2005, 09:07 PM

The 2.7 in my teener dropped a valve and went kablammo last August. I bought a repacement 2.7 only to find metal chips in the sump screen.

Should I rebuild the 2.7(s) to RS specs

or install a 3.2?

I have found a local 3.2 with 79k for $4,000 (complete except intake manifold).

I don't think there is any way I'll be able to get the 2.7 rebuild done for less than $4,000 even if I perform all the labor. I've torn down the replacement 2.7 and the bad luck continues ... Alusil cylinders and chipped teeth on the countershaft chainwheel sprockets.

How about a 3.2 with 40IDA Webers? What cams? I know 46IDAs would be better but I have the 40IDAs off the 2.7.


Thanks for your input.

Eddie

Posted by: nine14cats Nov 25 2005, 09:11 PM

Hi Eddie,

I'm really interested your thread as I am building a track only 914-6 and am debating currently between a 2.7 (2.8) or a 3.2. I've got Weber 40's in my garage, but I was wondering if they were too small for a 3.2. I hope you (we) get alot of answers!

Bill P.

Posted by: d914 Nov 25 2005, 09:14 PM

sell the 40's and buy my 46"s...

seriously, street maybe,race motor???? I know a 2.5 that went to pmo 50's!!

Posted by: theol00 Nov 25 2005, 09:27 PM

I have a 2.7 RS spec motor with approx 220 - 230 hp with Webbers 40 IDAs - all i have heard about bigger carbs is that people have trouble getting their cars running - the motor runs great is very torquee and has a great power band between 4000 - 7300 RPM - usually I can pull away and out-accellerate from 3.0 SC powered cars on the track. The motor I have, has been build by GD Racing in San Bruno, CA (Gary Dielacher) and has been around for a while - approx 30+ trackdays. and is very reliable. Like everything Gary has build!

Posted by: McMark Nov 25 2005, 09:30 PM

I would think go for buying a running motor rather than rebuilding. Just getting new pistons and cylinders will eat up a lot of your $4000. Of course, the gamble is, how long will it last?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Nov 25 2005, 10:33 PM

it all depends on what you want it to do....

me? racer? 2.7/2.8
streeter? 3.2

Posted by: retrotech Nov 25 2005, 10:38 PM

Hi Eddie,

I have 2.8 with 46mm webers. I had the engine dyno tuned, and the 46 are now great on the street, awesome on the track.
The intake noise alone is worth it.

Posted by: TimT Nov 25 2005, 10:38 PM

There is no replacement for displacement...

OK lets all sing along now LOL

Posted by: J P Stein Nov 25 2005, 10:38 PM

For the carbs, 40s should work fine. Anderson has a formula in his book for sizing vevturi. pg 149.

Cams? With stock pistons, you're kinda stuck for stock for either....tho some think 964 cams are better for the 3.2L and will fit....supposedly.

The 3.2L has a problem with over revs.....the rod bolts are the weak spot......and it will bend every valve. The RS motor has a better chance but it's not bullet proof.

I guess my advice is it really doesn't matter. If it's a track motor you should build it as such (or have it done) or risk the consequences. Were it me, I'd go to Jeff Hines and have a long talk with him.

Posted by: kdfoust Nov 26 2005, 12:06 AM

I thought about the same kinda stuff. I already made my descision: 3.2 Motronic. It will be a track car with an eminately driveable powerband and pretty high reliability.

The high performance paths are pretty well defined for both engines (well that goes for any of the Porsche flat-6 engines). To me the big advantage to the 3.2 is that it already comes with a modern engine control system that can support significantly more power with programing changes. But for me, I'm not a carb guy...no interest in them at all.

Either way you'll have some fun.

Later,
Kevin

Posted by: sixnotfour Nov 26 2005, 01:24 AM

3.2 Check it out Before you buy it.
79k probably needs guides
If its true , do it ,leave it stock , use the torque.
problem finding the injection, .5-1 k
I gots the carb stuff .

Flywheel ?

It will be a used motor , again.
3.2 used parts are $$$ very popular

Posted by: Bleyseng Nov 26 2005, 09:46 AM

Eddie won't care if it smokes some....

Posted by: Steve Nov 26 2005, 10:17 AM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Nov 25 2005, 08:33 PM)

it all depends on what you want it to do.... me? racer? 2.7/2.8 streeter? 3.2

I agree.
If your car is a track car you also want to make sure your car is maxed out in the class your competing in.
I heard the 3.2 will put you in a class with some pretty killer semi tube frame cars.
Otherwise I don't miss the hassle of the webers with the DME fuel injection.
I can start my car without touching the gas pedal.
It also has an altitude sensor that automatically adjusts the fuel injection when you drive in the mountains.

Posted by: Eddie914 Nov 26 2005, 10:57 AM

Geoff is correct ...

I don't mind a little smoke out the tailpipe, but I do get annoyed with pieces of piston out the exhaust!

Eddie

Posted by: Bleyseng Nov 26 2005, 11:27 AM

Eddie uses the car mostly for track days and there are no class rules other than don't hit somebody else passing!

Posted by: J P Stein Nov 26 2005, 12:40 PM

Lookie here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251729

Not cheep, but also not easy to find.

Posted by: Howard R Nov 26 2005, 01:06 PM

GE 80 cams.

Posted by: propricer Nov 26 2005, 01:21 PM

I 2nd the GE80 cams ... and 40's ... if you want low end out of a corner, you can't beat it. If you have a track with LONG straights, go with bigger displacement and / or bigger carbs. If its a mix of short and long and ax, go with smaller carbs and GE 80's.

Posted by: nine14cats Nov 26 2005, 08:34 PM

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Nov 26 2005, 10:40 AM)

Lookie here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251729 Not cheep, but also not easy to find.

QUOTE

Sorry guys...I'm 2nd on the list if the first guys deal falls through.



Bill P.

Posted by: scotty b Nov 26 2005, 08:44 PM

Eddie and anyone else. I'm may be interested in your JUNK parts as I am building a display motor to put with my 36 H.P. VW and 356 display engines. All I really need are the external pieces (block,cylinders,heads, shit box carbs etc) No internal parts are necessary. P.M. me with any info. I am also interested in 356 parts too.

Posted by: J P Stein Nov 26 2005, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Nov 26 2005, 06:34 PM)

Sorry guys...I'm 2nd on the list if the first guys deal falls through. Bill P.

Heh....figures.
I'd forgoten you were on the prowl for a gud motor.
Hope ya get it.

Posted by: Brando Nov 26 2005, 11:59 PM

A 2.9 setup on that 2.7 mag case would be bitchin and would make lots of power with the right programmable EFI or carb setup

Posted by: Series9 Nov 27 2005, 01:02 AM

I will install a 993 3.6 in your car for $19,500.

Line up.

Posted by: Lou W Nov 27 2005, 01:07 AM

Posted by: J P Stein Nov 27 2005, 01:11 AM

I dunno.........
8-10 for a 3.6L & 4 K for the goodies......you'd only be makin' 5K profit.....give or take

Posted by: Series9 Nov 27 2005, 01:18 AM

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Nov 27 2005, 12:11 AM)

I dunno......... 8-10 for a 3.6L & 4 K for the goodies......you'd only be makin' 5K profit.....give ar take

x1/month and I'm comfortably independent in my new shop in FL.....

Posted by: sixnotfour Nov 27 2005, 01:24 AM

you got to add shipping cost from Wa. to Fla.
Or add a vacation incentive plan.

Posted by: Eddie914 Nov 28 2005, 07:57 PM

Flywheel/clutch to use a 3.2 engine with the 914/901 tranmission ...

Is the patrick flywheel/clutch package the preferred setup?

Can the existing 901 clutch and pressure plate be used? Can a 915 clutch disc/pressure plate be used?

Does Patrick require a flywheel core? What do they use for a core? 914? 911/915?

Thanks

Eddie

Posted by: TimT Nov 28 2005, 08:27 PM

my 914 has a 3.2, a 3.2 flywheel, a 915RSR pressure plate

coupled to a 914 box

the box was converted to make it a pull clutch.

Ill have to look but I think the driven disc is an early 915 disc when fine splines were still used

Posted by: kdfoust Nov 28 2005, 10:34 PM

QUOTE (Eddie914 @ Nov 28 2005, 05:57 PM)

Flywheel/clutch to use a 3.2 engine with the 914/901 tranmission ... Is the patrick flywheel/clutch package the preferred setup? Can the existing 901 clutch and pressure plate be used? Can a 915 clutch disc/pressure plate be used? Does Patrick require a flywheel core? What do they use for a core? 914? 911/915? Thanks Eddie

You use the stock 3.2 flywheel if it's from the 915 years, once you get into the G50 years, then there's probably some additional adaptation. For the 915 years there's no core involved.

For my '85 3.2->914 tranny setup I bought the whole thing from http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/img/parts/580.jpg. It consisted of a new ring gear for the flywheel, new clutch, pressure plate, and TO bearing. The pressure plate converts the system to a pull clutch and is by Kennedy Engineering (KEP). If you're motivated you could probably source all the parts yourself and shave a little cost off the deal.

My only regret so far is that I didn't have the flywheel lightened. I'll do that when I do the 915 project in a year or two.

Later,
Kevin