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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:06 PM

I just got back from my trip to Argentina (4wks) and I found this old 1998 mag at a new stand with a Yellow 914-6 GT on the cover, so I had to pick it up for my 914 club members.
It says that it is the original 914-6 GT that the Porsche sold to Fernandez brothers. It raced in various events and even the Monte Carlo. It seems to have been restored, it also has dual driver side windshield washers, I guess to better clean the dirt and snow.
I had heard that this 914 GT had been wrecked in Spain, if you look at the inside photos you will notice that the ignition is on the steering colum, as far as I know the only 914-6’s that had the starter key on the colum are from 1972.

In all this car looks neat and it adds one more GT if real to our list of 914’s.

I will added the photos as fast as I can, also don’t shoot me for the bad stitching Thanks


Quilmes



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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:07 PM

Mas


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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:13 PM

more


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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:14 PM

more


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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:15 PM

Spanish GT front trunk


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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:16 PM

Spanish GT inside view


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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:19 PM

Spanish GT rear trunk


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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:20 PM

Spanish GT top view


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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:21 PM

Front water nozzel


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Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 05:22 PM

Spanish GT dash


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Posted by: Vacca Rabite Dec 5 2005, 05:42 PM

Man, I really dig the gas cap though the front trunk hood. Is there a kit to make the reguular cars like that? I guess it would be a rain trap...

Zach

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Dec 5 2005, 05:47 PM

I was just jonesing for some nice pictures of the GT hood with the proper pins - and presto!!!

Nice lookin car! Time to get out the old spanish text book and try to read that article....


Great find

Posted by: Mueller Dec 5 2005, 06:01 PM

thanks for taking the time to scan and post !!!!!!!

Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 5 2005, 06:27 PM

QUOTE (Quilmes @ Dec 5 2005, 04:21 PM)

Front water nozzel

ignition kill switch....

Posted by: scotty b Dec 5 2005, 06:39 PM

Did all of the GT's use the 911 gauge?? Never new that

Posted by: Quilmes Dec 5 2005, 07:03 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Dec 5 2005, 04:27 PM)

QUOTE (Quilmes @ Dec 5 2005, 04:21 PM) Front water nozzel ignition kill switch....

Next to the Kill switch you will see two driver side water nozzels.
If you also look at the top view of this 914 you will see a three(3) water nozzels.

I have never seen a 914 with three nozzels.

Quilmes


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Posted by: jimtab Dec 5 2005, 07:14 PM

QUOTE (Quilmes @ Dec 5 2005, 05:03 PM)

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Dec 5 2005, 04:27 PM) QUOTE (Quilmes @ Dec 5 2005, 04:21 PM) Front water nozzel ignition kill switch.... Next to the Kill switch you will see two driver side water nozzels. If you also look at the top view of this 914 you will see a three(3) water nozzels. I have never seen a 914 with three nozzels. Quilmes

That's kinda cool, wouldn't be hard to do...drill one more hole and a tee and another nozzle.....cheap for unique.....

Posted by: michel richard Dec 5 2005, 07:51 PM

250 km speedo. cool.

Posted by: smg914 Dec 5 2005, 08:32 PM

Any chance the VIN number is shown somewhere in the article??????

Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 5 2005, 08:34 PM

QUOTE (Quilmes @ Dec 5 2005, 06:03 PM)

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Dec 5 2005, 04:27 PM) QUOTE (Quilmes @ Dec 5 2005, 04:21 PM) Front water nozzel ignition kill switch.... Next to the Kill switch you will see two driver side water nozzels. If you also look at the top view of this 914 you will see a three(3) water nozzels. I have never seen a 914 with three nozzels. Quilmes

totally over looked the third nozzle My bad

thanks for settin me straight!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 5 2005, 09:04 PM

QUOTE

Man, I really dig the gas cap though the front trunk hood. Is there a kit to make the reguular cars like that? I guess it would be a rain trap...

Martin Baker can set you up.

North_Bay_914 here or martinqbaker@sbcglobal.net

I love mine...


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Posted by: Gustl Dec 6 2005, 12:02 AM

QUOTE (smg914 @ Dec 6 2005, 03:32 AM)

Any chance the VIN number is shown somewhere in the article??????

914.0.43.1569 - the ex Tergal Monte Carlo GT

owner is the president of the spanish Porsche Club



Gustl

Posted by: davep Dec 6 2005, 08:01 AM

QUOTE (Gustl @ Dec 5 2005, 10:02 PM)

914.0.43.1569 - the ex Tergal Monte Carlo GT

Interesting then, since 9140431569 is a 1970 914/6, and this car appears to either be a 914/4 or a 1972 914/6. Probably two different cars. The conversion to a GT is substantial with the GT 100 L tank. It would be nice to track it down and get more details.

Posted by: Gustl Dec 6 2005, 08:16 AM

AFAIK here are some guys who know spanish - I don't understand a single word (well, I know serveca )

this GT is owned by the president of the spanish Porsche Club

here's the homepage: http://www.clubporsche.es/

maybe anybody could ask for more details

Gustl

Posted by: JmuRiz Dec 6 2005, 09:52 AM

Anyone else notice the black headlight surrounds?

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 6 2005, 10:00 AM

i wonder what the button to the right of the cig lighter is for?

k

Posted by: Quilmes Dec 6 2005, 11:58 AM

QUOTE (Gustl @ Dec 6 2005, 06:16 AM)

AFAIK here are some guys who know spanish - I don't understand a single word (well, I know serveca ) this GT is owned by the president of the spanish Porsche Club here's the homepage: http://www.clubporsche.es/ maybe anybody could ask for more details Gustl

Hey Gustl, thanks for the info, I went on there web site and I could not find anything on his 914. I will e-mail the club and see if they might help us.

As I mentioned before I heard that this Yellow 914-6 had been in a wreck and possible thats why it has some 914-4 stuff on it. like the key on the colum.

There is also another article from a magazine Motor Clasico that shows the Kramer brother racing a red narrow body 914-6 in a vintaged rally and they came over all second. When I can I will scan this one too.

I guess that there are Kramers brothers in Spain also driving 914-6.

Thanks
Quilmes

Posted by: Spoke Dec 6 2005, 11:58 AM

QUOTE (JmuRiz @ Dec 6 2005, 10:52 AM)

Anyone else notice the black headlight surrounds?

What color should the headlight surrounds be? I painted mine black but I thought I saw a pic in an old magazine with black surrounds.

Spoke

Posted by: michel richard Dec 6 2005, 12:17 PM

QUOTE (Spoke @ Dec 6 2005, 09:58 AM)

QUOTE (JmuRiz @ Dec 6 2005, 10:52 AM) Anyone else notice the black headlight surrounds?  :idea: What color should the headlight surrounds be? I painted mine black but I thought I saw a pic in an old magazine with black surrounds. Spoke

early surrounds are white, actually off-white . . . I had noticed.

Posted by: ajserrano Dec 6 2005, 01:30 PM

Hello Quilmes! Most if not all 1972 Porsche 914-6 cars were NOT finished at the Porsche factory as did the 1970-1971 year 914-6 model cars. This is why you'll find the 914-4 steering colunms, 914-4 levers, 914-4 relay board and 914-4 engine wiring harness (with an adapter) as well as the dead-give-away "ignition key-switch mounted on the steering column" as can be seen in this Yellow 1972 914-6 car.

Another possible interesting difference to verify about these 1972 cars; I know someone with a 1972 Porsche 914-6 and will ask him to check the motor mount and firewall to see if those 1972 Porche 914-6 cars left the assembly line with the correct early (70-71) 914-6 motor-mount bracket or a "914-4 to 914-6" engine adapter bracket installed... <!-- emo&<_< --><!-- endemo -->

It is my understanding that the 1972 produced Porsche 914-6 cars were built at the VW plant and are slightly "water-down" versions of the 1970-71 "Porsche" factory 914-6 built cars (and I'm not talking about the chassis). Unfortunately, most of us that are not familiar with the above details will often confuse and mistakenly identify these 72' model 914-6s (not many!) with the more common '914-4 to 914-6 street conversions'...

Armando <!-- emo&:blink: --><!-- endemo -->
http://www.pbase.com/9146gt

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Dec 6 2005, 02:08 PM

Is the 9140xxxxxx VIN listed above incorrect? If a 72 it should be 9142xxxxxx.

Posted by: davep Dec 6 2005, 03:13 PM

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Dec 6 2005, 12:08 PM)

Is the 9140xxxxxx VIN listed above incorrect? If a 72 it should be 9142xxxxxx.

Well, yes it would be correct. There was only 260 914/6 in 1972 and this is far beyond that.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Dec 6 2005, 04:18 PM

Then I am confused. Do all agree that it is a conversion and not a true GT?

Posted by: Quilmes Dec 6 2005, 04:18 PM

QUOTE (davep @ Dec 6 2005, 01:13 PM)

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Dec 6 2005, 12:08 PM) Is the 9140xxxxxx VIN listed above incorrect? If a 72 it should be 9142xxxxxx. Well, yes it would be correct. There was only 260 914/6 in 1972 and this is far beyond that.

I dont' know if this will answer your numbers questions but here it goes.

All 914-6 had the vin numbers from 1970 till 1972 reflect the year they where made.
example:
1970 914-6 would read 9140431111
1971 would be 9141431111
and of course a 914-6 from 1972 9142430260 the last number on the 914-6 list.
The number that changes is the one after the 914 indicatin what year the car is from .

Quilmes

Posted by: davep Dec 6 2005, 04:28 PM

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Dec 6 2005, 02:18 PM)

Then I am confused. Do all agree that it is a conversion and not a true GT?

Not at all. It could easily be a 1972 914/6 but we don't know the VIN. We know a lot of 72 model 914/6 had flared fenders. First we need to establish that it is an original 914/6. Too little is known yet.

Posted by: ajserrano Dec 6 2005, 04:33 PM

I know of no factory built 914-6 GT race cars in 1972 so I can confortably say the Porsche factory did not have anything to do with it. Maybe a "Porsche authorized dealer" ordered the necessary "GT" parts (100 liter tank, etc.) and that could probably be verified...

Armando

Posted by: Gustl Dec 6 2005, 11:36 PM

someone mentioned before that the original Tergal GT was wrecked
so it could be possible, that this yellow car has some parts of the Tergal GT, including the VIN ?

I contacted the guy who told me that the VIN of the yellow car is 914.0.43.1569 and asked him about the not matching things - I'm curious about his answer ...

Gustl

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 6 2005, 11:48 PM

QUOTE (ajserrano @ Dec 6 2005, 03:33 PM)

I know of no factory built 914-6 GT race cars in 1972 so I can confortably say the Porsche factory did not have anything to do with it. Maybe a "Porsche authorized dealer" ordered the necessary "GT" parts (100 liter tank, etc.) and that could probably be verified...

last factory GT i know of was "914 143 0141", internal project number "914/58" ...


however, the later column *could* be a replacement if the car was wrecked at one point.
one would have to know the VIN for sure ...

Andy

Posted by: Gustl Dec 7 2005, 01:43 AM

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Dec 7 2005, 06:48 AM)

one would have to know the VIN for sure ...

well, I've got the VIN info from a really truthworthy guy
he's a long term member of the Porsche 914-6 Club in Germany and a kind of "master of historic research"

as I told you, I asked him about the mismatch
as far as I get his answer, I'll let you know

Gustl

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 7 2005, 01:47 AM

QUOTE (Gustl @ Dec 7 2005, 12:43 AM)

"master of historic research"

we wait impatiently
for the masters
words of wisdom

Posted by: Gustl Dec 7 2005, 04:55 AM

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Dec 7 2005, 08:47 AM)

we wait impatiently

just got his answer:

tell me all the mystirious parts on this yellow GT (?) you can find, and he will ask the owner directly about them
due to the fact, that he's in Germany and the owner of this car is in spain, he'd like to check this out at once, so find as much as possible

1.) "wrong" ignition
2.) black headlight surroundings

what else?

Gustl

Posted by: michel richard Dec 7 2005, 06:18 AM

engine mount ?
i.e. are the /4 engine mount present, and how is the /6 engine mounted to the frame

The thing about the steering column, in my mind, is that going from the /6 column to the normal /4 column would entail a number of changes: it would mean changing the steel support structure that is welded to the frame, changing the wiper motor (or at least changing the wiring) changing the windshield washer mechanism to an air-activated one (or at least changing the wiring) changing a lot of the wiring for the ignition, the turn signals, the high beam switch etc . . .
For all those reasons, I suspect that if this car has the /4 steering column, it left the factory with it.

Posted by: davep Dec 7 2005, 06:38 AM

The obvious things for me would be the VIN, chassis #, and paint code from all the usual locations. The location of the chassis # from the rear trunk is also important; center or right hand side. The number on the underside of the dash would also help. If the chassis # is on the Karmann badge, does it match the trunk floor. Does the VIN match in all locations.

Does the passenger seat have fixed or adjustable position?
Is the dash early or late type?
Is the bracket for the booster fan in the engine compartment present?

Posted by: smg914 Dec 7 2005, 09:58 AM

This car looks like it has the late style striker plate for the door latch.
The steering wheel looks like it might be a '74 imitation leather wheel.
I notice it doesn't have the undercoating on the upper front shock mounts.
The passenger side threshold rail looks like it might be black plastic instead of aluminum. This would nicely match the black headlight surrounds.

Another thing to check would be to see if the jack mounts are located on the drivers side rear of the trunk instead on the forward wall of the trunk.

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 7 2005, 11:23 AM

QUOTE (smg914 @ Dec 7 2005, 08:58 AM)

I notice it doesn't have the undercoating on the upper front shock mounts.

those were certainly repainted when they added the 100L tank and welded on the tabs for the strut-brace ...

Posted by: Gustl Dec 7 2005, 01:28 PM

Andy, I'm afraid I need your help

could you give me an essential summary of the questions/problems concerning the yellow car - in german

my english knowledge seems to be not enaugh...

Gustl

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 7 2005, 01:34 PM

QUOTE (Gustl @ Dec 7 2005, 12:28 PM)

Andy, I'm afraid I need your help

ok, give me an hour or so, i'm having a biz-meeting in 5 minutes ....

Andy

Posted by: Gustl Dec 7 2005, 04:02 PM

well, you get at least 8 hours ... I'm going to bed now

Gustl

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 15 2008, 11:31 PM

Gustl, wake up! ... It's been 3 years ...

Andy

Posted by: championgt1 Aug 15 2008, 11:45 PM

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 16 2008, 07:42 AM

Posted by: KELTY360 Aug 16 2008, 08:42 AM

Posted by: type47fan Aug 16 2008, 08:24 PM

"Rip Van Gustl"

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 18 2008, 01:58 PM

Guten Morgen Wolfgang!

Andy

Posted by: Marty Yeoman Aug 18 2008, 02:36 PM

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 25 2011, 07:39 PM

Still a mystery after all these years...

Posted by: SLITS Jan 25 2011, 08:43 PM

Damn Eric, you must be totally bored to dig up a thread that old.

After all the questions, the owner found out he was ripped, set off on a journey to find the culprits and was never heard from again.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 25 2011, 10:14 PM

Finally! A straight (well... consider the source... as straight as it can get), definative answer.

Posted by: twash Jan 26 2011, 10:47 AM

gt's were only made in 1970,rear truck shock area is welded nice up date,incorrect fuel tank cross brace, fuel cell conversion on gt fuel tank, wrong color head lite covers, non bosch cut off switch ,sway bar is an update that never worked out that good

Posted by: carr914 Jan 26 2011, 11:13 AM

Wrong !

Posted by: twash Jan 26 2011, 11:19 AM

it would help if you expand on your response. any body can say wrong. by 1971 factory effort turned off

Posted by: carr914 Jan 26 2011, 11:26 AM

Here you go

Posted by: twash Jan 26 2011, 11:54 AM

now here's some meat , pull out the 471 cars which had only flairs. the acutual race cars were called in reality renn optioned cars, Competition equiped, gt is only a race class in which the 914-6 renn cars race in

Posted by: twash Jan 26 2011, 12:06 PM

Posted by: carr914 Jan 26 2011, 12:17 PM

Now, what are you talking about?

Posted by: twash Jan 26 2011, 12:55 PM

all 914-6 cars were all production cars, some cars were special order, porsche had a sport package Renn) option that was available, in this package the cars were equiped different options. I.E. brakes, suspension, engine components, fender flairs,wheels. You could order different combinations for a renn package.

Posted by: twash Jan 26 2011, 01:15 PM

sports info for the renn 914-6 , go to aramandos GT site look under " 914-6GT technical Documentation and then go to Sports info for the 914-6 GT. all the different compoments for the renn package is there, reading german helps

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 26 2011, 01:22 PM

Wrong!


9141430139
Factory GT, Project# 914/56, Raced at 1971 Monte Carlo


9141430140
Factory GT, Project# 914/57, Raced at 1971 Monte Carlo


9141430141
Factory GT, Project# 914/58, Raced at 1971 Monte Carlo

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 26 2011, 05:53 PM

Now back to your regularly scheduled fake GT. Anybody know about this car?

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 26 2011, 06:30 PM

Gustl?

Posted by: jim_hoyland Jan 26 2011, 06:33 PM

Great pics Andy ! How about starting a historical picture forum. Perhaps organized by vin.

Posted by: Justinp71 Jan 26 2011, 10:58 PM

According to Gustl and the chart above this is a real 914-6 GT???

Posted by: Gustl Jan 26 2011, 11:42 PM

well ... did anybody contact the spanish club to get in contact with their president?
as I told before, I don't know spanish ...

the german guy contacted this spanish guy, but never got answer
maybe the contact information was bad - or the spanish guy just didn't want to discuss his car

I'm afraid I can't contribute more about this car ...

but I think some 914-4 parts on the car - as well as black headlight surrounds - won't tell us that it's a fake
referring to my infos it was a rallye car in the 70ies, so it wouldn't be very surprising that it got damaged / crashed
and I'm sure nobody gave a damn about using a cheaper 914-4 part instead of an expensive 914-6 part on a rallye car that made the same job ...?
we don't know yet when these parts came to the car and if anybody back then realised that this car could be worth much more in the future (currently, speaking of presence)
just my 2 cent ...

Gustl

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 27 2011, 04:08 AM

Haha, this is a funny thread....nothing like someone calling Andy out...
Check with the bible first! Das Grosse Porsche/VW Book..

Posted by: marankie Jan 27 2011, 08:51 AM

Well guys. irrespective of its pedigree, it looks like a well turned out good looking car. Right color too. Tony, with respect to the rear sway bar set up, I can well relate to it. If you lower a 914 for racing and hit big high speed bumps like at turn 8 at Willlow springs, the top strut pivot point at the end of the sway bar hits the bottom of the trunk and becomes an instant hard bump stop. This will put you into the weeds. Believe me I know. And there are lots of (upward facing) bumps in my trunk, despite the fact that I have shortened the rear sway bar links from the shock bolt to the end of the sway bar. I have seen the swaybar in the trunk set up before, and this addresses the above problem, allowing full wheel travel (as allowed by the spring and shock). Especially for rallying, where you want compliant suspension to run fast on bumpy roads, this would be a good solution. I never did it because I did to cut holes in the trunk.
Martin

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 27 2011, 08:52 AM

Hi Martin.

Posted by: r_towle Jan 27 2011, 04:20 PM

Martin,
Have you considered another old trick?
Lower the bottom shock mounting bolt by welding a new bung on teh bottom of the trailing arm....

Rich

Posted by: tscrihfield Jan 27 2011, 04:42 PM

I promise that I am not trying to start anything or trying to be a prick but this car has Black headlight surrounds? Just got me thinking thats all...

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 27 2011, 04:47 PM

In case of 914.143.0139 we don't have to worry about "real" or not anymore ...

"send to the crusher 09.15.1972"

R.I.P.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 27 2011, 06:13 PM

Just not right...

Posted by: Gustl Jan 27 2011, 10:56 PM

you shouldn't doubt the originality of a car or its model/built year just from the colour of the headlight surroundings ... they are changed within a minute

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 28 2011, 02:12 PM

I can't believe I missed this thread ........ great magazine find!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

Posted by: tscrihfield Jan 28 2011, 04:36 PM

That is what I was getting at. I just heard a lot to do with unoriginal headlight surrounds and thought if this known GT had black headlight surrounds then that most likely shoots that idea out of the water.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 28 2011, 05:47 PM

Some had "no" headlight surrounds.

Posted by: msglaigaie Jan 28 2011, 06:38 PM

Exellence did an article on this GT years ago. It stated that the original driver had a road dust problem and specifically requested the extra nozzel on the drivers side. I thought this a grand idea and I purchased the (not yet installed) nozzel and tubes to do mine. What a good idea!