What's the deal with the 915 transmissions? My 901 in with my 3.2 is screwed up, and I could get it repaired. Or, I could just upgrade and save myself some more headaches in the future.
What's a good price for a 915? Do I need to change anything to mate it to my 3.2? What years for the 915? Anything special I need to know?
Yes, I did a search, but I couldn't find much.
Thank you in advance guys!
The chief issue with the 915 is getting a shift linkage to work. You can buy your way around the problem with WEVO parts. The 915 should bolt up to a 3.2, since that's what was in the 911 to start with. However, you'll need to swap back to a 915 flywheel and clutch from the modified flywheel you're running now.
What's screwed up and how did you do it?
Bring $$$$
I'm up to 9K so far and still don't have shift linkage!
I switched to the 915, and have been very happy with it. I'm just running a 2.7, but am hoping to up that to a 3.2 or 3.6 this winter. The WEVO kit seems to be the best way to go, and the transmissions are pretty strong. You should be able to find a 915 for ~$1000 or less, but by the time it's rebuilt, the ring and pinion flipped, speedometer magnet ring pickup modified, etc., etc., it does run into some money.
I used the Vellios kit with good luck, but it did take a lot of car and measuring to get the linkage to work well. It really shifts nicely though, and I don't have to worry about ripping up the old 901 trans any more. Good Luck with your project!
Not to rain on anyone's WEVO inspired parade, but there are plenty of guys running around with home made linkage setups that work fine. It's just a little geometry, and small threaded rods with heim joint ends to actuate the gear selection properly. I know for a fact that several successful racers are doing just fine with it. It takes more time to set up initially, but any 915 with the ring gear flipped with work.
I'd agree, the most difficult step was to get the linkage just right. Take the slop out of all the bushings and have the right sized metric tubing, and it works just fine.
If anyone made the side shifter parts available by themselves to fit a 915, a lot of money could be saved. I had to look long and hard to get the Vellios parts, but when we set up the transmission well, it worked great. It just seems that WEVO has done a lot of your homework for you, making it a more or less bolt in sort of setup. I personally enjoyed making up the linkage myself!
Can anybody show us some pics of the "home made" solution? I'm keeping my 3.2l matched to it's 915..so I have to either do the wevo thing or maybe make my own? How did you fab the tranny mounts? Is it hard to flip the ring and pinion? What do you have to do for the speedo?
Jim
Pic 1
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pic 2
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pic 3
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John...i should come and see this setup sometime. I work for harley davidson so I'm there at the kansas city plant occasionally.
Really cool!
Um....
This is NOT my car.
I took pics of it at Heartland Park in Topeka last summer.
I liked what he did and plan on duplicating it on our future race car. I made some hand sketches and was going to draw it up and make me a BOM for the components needed, but so far I haven't had the time to reverse engineer it. (The stuff is still buried in my pile of projects to do on my desk...
I currently have a Vellios kit installed in the track car and it works excellent. I also have plans on converting another 915 with a second Vellios kit I have obtained. (This second will go in my street car currently slated for a 3.2 transplant when I get all my parts together. It will happen before spring.
If you are in the area (from HD, you could get to my house in less than 30 min.), feel free to contact me.
Last summer there was a second car with a home made linkage, but I liked this first one better.
QUOTE (olav @ Dec 16 2005, 05:26 PM) |
What's screwed up and how did you do it? |
I'm confused.. What costs so much? I just went to car-part.com and did a search. Used boxes averaged $ 1250.00.....
What's involved in flipping the ring gear?
Is the starter location the same as the 901-914 box? (flywheel diameter..?)
Can you use the box on a 4 cylinder with a a stock flywheel?
Where can we find out about gear ratio's?
I need a "H" gear for 5th. Or something like it.
I'm thinking it will cost me a bunch of money to go through my stock box, maybe I should do this..
Is the box longer than a stock 914 box?
Dunno bout youz guys, but I saved those linkage/mount pics to my files.
I have more fabricating skills than money.
QUOTE (J P Stein @ Dec 17 2005, 08:42 AM) |
Dunno bout youz guys, but I saved those linkage/mount pics to my files. I have more fabricating skills than money. |
QUOTE |
I'm confused.. What costs so much? I just went to car-part.com and did a search. Used boxes averaged $ 1250.00..... |
QUOTE |
I need a "H" gear for 5th. Or something like it. |
QUOTE (rickyhgarcia @ Dec 17 2005, 11:58 AM) | ||
I bought my 5th H gear from Brad Mayeur ( 914ltd@earthlink.net ) for about $300.00. |
QUOTE (brp914 @ Dec 17 2005, 11:14 AM) | ||
freshen/rebuild = several $1000's wevo = $2000 (I'm goin' this way - more $ than fab skills here) axles/cv = several $100's 915 style shifter = several $100's tranny mounts exhaust/muffler (wevo will interfere w/stock muffler) shift linkage clutch/flywheel/clutch linkage electronic speedometer starter flip r&p modify side cover for speedo tb diff? = $1500+ I'm in process now - will post soon... |
I've been led to believe that 915s have a bearing race issue that makes used trannys untrustworthy. Of course you can always run it till it explodes.
At minimum, most 915s (even good used ones) probably need synchros and dog teeth for 1st and 2nd. Then if you start doing the "while you are in there" stuff you'll easily speed $2K for a very basic refresh.
QUOTE (McMark @ Dec 17 2005, 04:38 PM) |
I've been led to believe that 915s have a bearing race issue that makes used trannys untrustworthy. |
Check with Rod Simpson. I believe he has the shift linkages and mounts. I saw them at his shop a few years ago.
David
Sounds like a negociation opportunity. So lets say you don't get Dirk Wrights disease.... and you just flip the R&P, install the box and use it. Sounds like you could blow the first box up twice before you've spent the cost of a rebuild. What are the odds of getting three bad boxes in a row..
We are 914 people------People. I'm looking into this.
Back to the questions;
Is there a site that lists 5th gear letters for the 915 by year?
Anyone know if the 915 box has a 5 gear near "H"
Oh, this may be the wrong question.
First; what is the R&P ratio of the 901/914 box?
then I found this;
The 915 appeared in 1972 with a major upgrade in strength, compared to its predessor. The first ones didn't shift as well as the later ones due to some improvements in the shifter and syncro's. 915's were made with magnesium cases from 72 until 77. Some of them had aluminum final-drive cases in 77 before the entire gearcase was made from aluminum in 1978. 915's used 7:31 ring & pinions until 1975 when they switched to the stronger 8:31. These later ring & pinions are the preferred item for racing or high-horsepower applications and the later 915's had stronger differentials and mainshafts.
I attached the link to a Lambo conversion site.http://www.rennsportsystems.com/1-d.html
Rick,
When I get back up to Milwaukee sunday night I'll pull my 911 manuals and my SC and Carrera manuals and get the gear info. All I know is that when I drive the 911SC the gearing is great....car is not screaming in 5th at 90 and you don't shift out of 1st the minute you put your foot in the gas. I took the donor 3.2l car out last month (was starting to think 901 for this springs project) and was at 60 or so and still in 2nd gear...no more thoughts of the 901! After driving both 911's and seeing how well the tranny and gear ratio's seem to be aligned I don't think I'd want to bother hooking up my 901 to the 3.2l engine.
ahhh...looks like the gearing info is in the link that Rick put in his last message.
QUOTE (jim912928 @ Dec 17 2005, 04:13 PM) |
Rick, When I get back up to Milwaukee sunday night I'll pull my 911 manuals and my SC and Carrera manuals and get the gear info. All I know is that when I drive the 911SC the gearing is great....car is not screaming in 5th at 90 and you don't shift out of 1st the minute you put your foot in the gas. I took the donor 3.2l car out last month (was starting to think 901 for this springs project) and was at 60 or so and still in 2nd gear...no more thoughts of the 901! After driving both 911's and seeing how well the tranny and gear ratio's seem to be aligned I don't think I'd want to bother hooking up my 901 to the 3.2l engine. |
QUOTE (jim912928 @ Dec 17 2005, 04:16 PM) |
ahhh...looks like the gearing info is in the link that Rick put in his last message. |
A 915 shifter should be able to be had for $150 or so,
The axles can be made from 914 axle shafts (with a little machining) and 911 (or 944) CV joints (depending on the splines on the axle shaft).
A shift rod would need to be created.
A way to release the clutch would need to be fabbed as well.
I know for a fact that I can fabricate or modify all these parts.
I think that the stock 915 gearing (1984-1989) is similar to the stock 914/901 gearbox. I may be wrong, but I didn't notice much if any difference in gearing when we switched from the 914/901 to a 915 in the race car. (3.2)
just my $0.02
I may be able to scrounge a few more pics of linkages. I just have too many pics to search......
I can't believe I am the only one with pics of such linkages.
You know, this same fabricated linkage and support could be applied directly to 930 transmissions as well (for those V8 guys).
On another note, The starter is in exactly the same place as on a 914/901, but I couldn't tell you if you could bolt it up and use a stock 4-cyl flywheel. I know it will bolt to the 4-cyl, and AFAIK the 914-4 and 914-6 used interchangable starters, so I would venture to guess that the starter would work with a 4-cyl flywheel.
I bet Brad has some but he's too busy...
I bet he could answer all our questions too...
901 gears off of PET for a 75 914
1st: 11:34
2ND: 18:34
3rd: 23:28
4th: 27:25
5th: 31:22
ring gear: 7:31
915 gears off of PET for an 84 911
1st: 11:35
2nd 18:32
3rd 23:29
4th: 26:26
5th: 38:30
ring gear: 8:31
QUOTE (jim912928 @ Dec 17 2005, 07:40 PM) |
901 gears off of PET for a 75 914 1st: 11:34 2ND: 18:34 3rd: 23:28 4th: 27:25 5th: 31:22 ring gear: 7:31 915 gears off of PET for an 84 911 1st: 11:35 2nd 18:32 3rd 23:29 4th: 26:26 5th: 38:30 ring gear: 8:31 |
QUOTE |
I may be doing the math wrong but wouldnt those make RPM higher with the 915 |
Anyone know what gear set makes the 38:30 5th gear ratio?
Someone had a link to a gear set chart... Aaron?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_tranny_ratios/mult_tranny_ratios.htm
Here's the charts.
5th Gears
24:27 1.13
25:27 1.08
25:26 1.04
26:26 1.00
26:25 0.96
27:25 0.93
27:24 0.89
28:24 0.86
29:23* 0.79
29:22 0.76
29:21* 0.72
31:21 0.68
32:20 0.63
from www.powerhausii.com
QUOTE (spare time toys @ Dec 17 2005, 04:43 PM) | ||
I may be doing the math wrong but wouldnt those make RPM higher with the 915 |
QUOTE |
Sounds like your doing a bunch of stuff that wouldn't normally need to be done to convert the average 914. |
QUOTE |
Why are you converting to an electric speedo? |
QUOTE |
Whats special about the starter? |
QUOTE |
Are you saying it costs $ 1000.00 to dismantle a box, flip the R&P and reassemble? |
QUOTE |
Car-part.com. Rebuilt listed for sale $ 1650.00. |
QUOTE |
just cuz some guy hooks up some rods and joints, doesn't mean it works well. Probably shifts like crap. even a lot of the vellios could barely be made to work. you can try to go cheap, but I'm guessing it wont be reliable and/or enjoyable to drive. |
Dude... Have you seen my car? I made everything from the engine mounts to the nylon throttle cable bushings
I drove from MN to Southern Cali., Ran the car at Willow and drove home.
You can get Dirk Wrights Disease or you can drive your car some day...
all this talk about 901's being geared wrong blah....
jim912928... you are using a 4 CYLINDER 914 box as a comparison? how is that fair to the 901?
pick up a 914/6 box, and your 2nd gear ratio would be taller (like you said "60 in second" ) and you would need a taller 5th, (flipped H , HA, HB) for your desired cruising rpm.....
just asking for ya to be fair in your comparisons... a /6 box with a taller 5th would be fine...but you want to side step the clutch and drag race... a 915 is for ya...
i dont know about you all....
ill blow up 7 or 8 901's before id pay for a 915....
a few people (racers) are running 3.6+ motors through 901's.......
just my opinions....
AA
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Dec 17 2005, 08:15 PM) |
all this talk about 901's being geared wrong blah.... jim912928... you are using a 4 CYLINDER 914 box as a comparison? how is that fair to the 901? pick up a 914/6 box, and your 2nd gear ratio would be taller (like you said "60 in second" ) and you would need a taller 5th, (flipped H , HA, HB) for your desired cruising rpm..... just asking for ya to be fair in your comparisons... a /6 box with a taller 5th would be fine...but you want to side step the clutch and drag race... a 915 is for ya... i dont know about you all.... ill blow up 7 or 8 901's before id pay for a 915.... a few people (racers) are running 3.6+ motors through 901's....... just my opinions.... AA |
I just went through a full 915 WEVO box upgrade with about every option known to man and the price tag can add up. It's just what you want from the box that will determine the price.
Flipping the ring and pinion for mid-engine will run 2 to 4 hours of labor if your paying for it. Clearancing does need to be done inside the transaxle because of the flip of the R&P. It's minimal, but needs to be done. A hole needs to be machined in the other side of the box for the magnet of the speedo if you choose to run it. That is another 2 to 4 hours of labor if you go that route.
For shift linkage I went with the WEVO setup. If you go this route, the actuating lever (dongle) inside the trans is swapped out for a shorter piece from WEVO. WEVO takes the old dongle as a core. If you do not want to spring for a WEVO tail housing, Rod Simpson's linkage is based on the 901 tail shifter linkage geometry. I talked with Rod at length when I was researching which way to go. His linkage is very competitively priced if you are on a budget.
Both Renegade and Patrick Motorsports also sell cable shifter setups for the boxes. I don't know how they compare in price.
If you get into the box for synchro's, bearings, gears, etc., it adds up since it's a $100 here and there and it just adds up. Additionally, I had a bad bearing housing in mine, so that was replaced as well.
Minimally, if you have a good working 915 to start, you can flip the R&P, have the speedo machined and use Simpson's linkage and be on the road for ~$1500, not counting the cost of the 915. On the other end of the spectrum, my race box WEVO cost $8K not including the cost of the box. But this was for a pure track car and as I stated above, a street car version can be had for a reasonable price.
FWIW, the WEVO tail piece is a thing of beauty! So far, everyone I know that runs it has good things to say.
Bill P.
915's dont have names im aware of...just ratio's (which is all that matters no???)
AA -> 901 fan
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Dec 17 2005, 08:30 PM) |
915's dont have names im aware of...just ratio's (which is all that matters no???) AA -> 901 fan |
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Dec 17 2005, 09:30 PM) |
915's dont have names im aware of...just ratio's (which is all that matters no???) AA -> 901 fan |
901s had letter names to the gear set,
915s they just published numerical ratios
Find what an HB is numerically and find a matching 915 gearset
Also the R&P ratio on 915s and 901s are the same 7:31, unless a special ratio was ordered.
Also the gear sets in 901 and 915 changed almost yearly, as new more powerful engines were brought online, the transmissions were geared to take advantage of the additional power
and bottom line 915 transmissions are stronger than 901s
I do have a 901 bolted to my modded 3.2, but I have a transmission on standby, and a few parts transmissions at hand also
Aaron,
I wasn't really trying to compare them to start any controversy...just my seat experience of driving my 911's versus driving my 914. It's about the tall gearing for highway speeds for me. I have a 3.2l engine to put in my 914 that already has a rebuilt 915 attached to it...I'm just planning on keeping them mated since they were made for each other versus cutting on my 901 to fit the sensors and putting in a taller 5th gear. Just adding an opinion. I do hear too many talk about the gearing for cruising at highway speeds as an issue with the 901's (which I do alot of highway driving). With the taller 5th and the different sized ring gear...seems like my 915 will be better suited for me.
Jim
QUOTE (TimT @ Dec 17 2005, 09:45 PM) |
901s had letter names to the gear set, 915s they just published numerical ratios Find what an HB is numerically and find a matching 915 gearset Also the R&P ratio on 915s and 901s are the same 7:31, unless a special ratio was ordered. Also the gear sets in 901 and 915 changed almost yearly, as new more powerful engines were brought online, the transmissions were geared to take advantage of the additional power and bottom line 915 transmissions are stronger than 901s I do have a 901 bolted to my modded 3.2, but I have a transmission on standby, and a few parts transmissions at hand also |
QUOTE |
Flipped HB 5 31 : 19 (0.613) |
Use a gear calculator to put together your gearsets. I thought there was an Excel spreadsheet in the download area.. if not I have a couple of gear calculators I cen email
You enter tire diameter, final drive ratio, redline, shift points.. then plug in gears and see how they work..
QUOTE (TimT @ Dec 17 2005, 09:57 PM) |
Use a gear calculator to put together your gearsets. I thought there was an Excel spreadsheet in the download area.. if not I have a couple of gear calculators I cen email You enter tire diameter, final drive ratio, redline, shift points.. then plug in gears and see how they work.. |
They are excel spreadsheet been around for awhile. Ill email them, but Ill have to fire up some of my laptops and see which one they are one
but yea Ill shoot them over to you tomorrow maybe
QUOTE (TimT @ Dec 17 2005, 10:04 PM) |
They are excel spreadsheet been around for awhile. Ill email them, but Ill have to fire up some of my laptops and see which one they are one but yea Ill shoot them over to you tomorrow maybe |
I have every calculation sheet for every 901 and 915 version...let me boot up my laptop...hold on.
-Britain
QUOTE (Britain Smith @ Dec 17 2005, 09:18 PM) |
I have every calculation sheet for every 901 and 915 version...let me boot up my laptop...hold on. -Britain |
Thanks for all the great info guy's!
My head is swimming
If I'm reading this correctly the 901 ZD gear is the same ratio as the 5th gear in the 915. Looks like they both have the same R&P so I'm not saving anything by buying a 915. I will have to have the R&P flipped, machine work done, install my HB gear, shorten the bellhousing for my conversion, build a tranny mount, build linkage, have a custom speedo cable made, adapt axles, etc,
I guess my 901 goes out for a build.
But I like that cool linkage!
QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Dec 17 2005, 10:24 PM) |
Thanks for all the great info guy's! My head is swimming If I'm reading this correctly the 901 ZD gear is the same ratio as the 5th gear in the 915. Looks like they both have the same R&P so I'm not saving anything by buying a 915. I will have to have the R&P flipped, machine work done, install my HB gear, shorten the bellhousing for my conversion, build a tranny mount, build linkage, have a custom speedo cable made, adapt axles, etc, I guess my 901 goes out for a build. But I like that cool linkage! |
Ok, here is an article of every Porsche tranny ratios:
Page1:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Just in case you wanted to know the Cayenne ratios...its on there.
Now for the calculation sheets...they are in excel format and I am not sure if they will load here...lets try the first one.
-Britain
Nope...won't do it. Let me load them to my site.
thanks for sharing brittain
AA
Wow! Cool!
QUOTE (J P Stein @ Dec 17 2005, 10:23 PM) | ||
Ah, Britian lives. What's going on with the 912? |
Alright, this is what I got.
All the files are located here:
http://britainsmith.com/Porsche/TransmissionCalc/
FYI: You have to right click the files and save to your computer...
Now, I made these some time ago. Let me know if you have any issues. Remember to enter the correct tire sizes (i.e. 205/50/15) to make the speed calculations work. Also, these sheets are based off engine RPM and torque values.
-Britain
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Just is case...here are some instructions:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Also, remember to check the tabs at the bottom...there are additional charts.
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Another...
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Last...
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I have both the 916 transmission and a Velios conversion. Both have been worked on extensively.
The Velios is in the race car and is the smoothest shifting transmission you could imagine. It has the stock 915 shifter, relocated back about 2 inches. It also includes a spray bar, which helps keep the temp down to around 230 degrees on hot track days.
The 916 is an interesting tranny in that the magnesium conversion parts were made by Porsche (later copied by Velios, with improvements). They had some inherent problems (two gears at once- leaks) but were made with stock SC gear ratios. That combo is great with my 2.7l. I use a Wevo shifter, but made the rods from "73" pieces. They were a pita to set up, but it now shifts fine.
For the 915 in general, you get a better shifting pattern! 3d and 4th are on the same shifting plane, very handy at the track. But my main point is that you can still buy the 916 tranny: they only made, what, 11 of the cars, but a slew of the transmissions. And I know of a fellow in PA who claims to have 2 of them for sale. He mentioned $2500, and all the tough work is done.
Once you blow up an engine with an antiquated 901 tranny with a mystery shifter, you tend to look for a better way. Now, if I could only find a good sequential box...
Rick,
FYI so you make the right decisions. The ring gear is NOT the same ratio's at the 901 on the 78 and newer 915's. In 1978 the factory switched to an 8:31 from the previous 7:31's. This will help you out with your higher speeds and the later 915's taller 5th gear.
Jim
.
Here is the explosion of an 84 915 gear set:
Attached thumbnail(s)
FYI... for those of you who were toying with the idea of tying a 915 to a 4 cylinder..... the factory did that. The results were called a 912E.
The 912e uses a special input shaft and clutch release arm to work with the 215mm 914 clutch setup. Both parts are very rare and expensive.
QUOTE (jim912928 @ Dec 18 2005, 07:01 AM) |
Rick, FYI so you make the right decisions. The ring gear is NOT the same ratio's at the 901 on the 78 and newer 915's. In 1978 the factory switched to an 8:31 from the previous 7:31's. This will help you out with your higher speeds and the later 915's taller 5th gear. Jim . |
QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Dec 18 2005, 07:41 AM) |
FYI... for those of you who were toying with the idea of tying a 915 to a 4 cylinder..... the factory did that. The results were called a 912E. The 912e uses a special input shaft and clutch release arm to work with the 215mm 914 clutch setup. Both parts are very rare and expensive. |
Nope. If you are using the 4 cylinder pressure plate and throwout bearing, you can use that with the 912E transmission.
But you have to find a 912E transmission first......
QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Dec 18 2005, 08:06 AM) |
Nope. If you are using the 4 cylinder pressure plate and throwout bearing, you can use that with the 912E transmission. But you have to find a 912E transmission first...... |
QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Dec 18 2005, 09:16 AM) | ||
wise guy! |
You mean one of these...
This is my 923 Transmission. I got it as a core in nasty shape for $750 (from HPH). I replaced the 1/2 syncros and upgraded the 3/4 slider to the late model style. It was rebuild by WEVO with WEVO goodies. If you look closely, all of those screenshots of sheets I posted above where from the 923 transmission.
You are right, it has a 901 mainshaft and using a early 911 or 914 215mm clutch set-up. This particular one had the crossover point on the bottom where the cable goes knock off. I had to have it magnesiem welded. Here is a picture before I cleaned it up completely.
This tranny also has a taller 5th gear that allows it to travel at highway speeds and the engine to not be screaming.
It will go nicely with this:
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Dec 18 2005, 10:31 AM) | ||||
the type 923 all of what 3000 912E's made or something? |
Hey all,
Have any of you ever had any experience with Rod Simpson's 915 shift kit?
Thanks.
Dino
errrrrrrrr
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