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Posted by: jarbuthnot Aug 22 2003, 04:38 PM

I bought a 914 new in 1971 and after 13 years sold it (it didn’t like winter) and I’ve regretted it ever since. So I’m now looking to buy one again. I’ve seen a few ads for cars I’m interested in buying, but how do I determine if the price is a fair one for the seller and the buyer? I’ve got the NADA prices, but it seems that most 914s for sale are over the suggested prices.

Since it’s unlikely I’ll find a 914 in Eastern Maine, how can I find a good mechanic to inspect the car for me?

Sure glad I found this site, it's got loads of good stuff in it.

Joan A

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Aug 22 2003, 04:49 PM

Hi Joan,

Excellent question. We preach Pre-Purchase Inspections here.

Likely, you'll find the car you want on some classifieds section (here, Pelican, Rennlist), a swap meet, or through your local PCA/SCCA groups.

My bet is the first option. Usually, if there's a car you want to go see, inviting a fellow club member to go check out the car with you is a good way to go. Most of us are pretty good folks, and won't drink ALL of your wallet up when you buy lunch.

California/SW cars are usually the answer. Fly out and drive back is always a great adventure. Car shipping is available, and the folks on this list have a bunch of exerience with that.

Price is ALWAYS dependent on condition: biggest area is rust, of course. For the 4 cylinder cars, 73/74 2.0 cars are generally the most desireable, and usually cost more. Originality is only worth what you want to pay for it. Is a "factory perfect" muffler what you really desire, or will any serviceable aftermarket unit work? Do you want the perfect match to the factory vinyl, or will a nice recover on seats be okay?

Decide what you want, what options you want, and then buy the best condition car you can afford - investing a bit more now is better than trying to spend 5-10x that in repair bills later.

I hope this helps,
Lawrence

Posted by: tryan Aug 22 2003, 04:52 PM

from my most recent pca 'valuation, a nice 74 2.0 is 7k average. 90% is 9800.

Posted by: Curvie Roadlover Aug 22 2003, 04:55 PM

Posted by: tryan Aug 22 2003, 05:03 PM

wack off two k if you buy in california. those guys are nuts .

Posted by: Part Pricer Aug 22 2003, 05:44 PM

Joan,

Welcome to the club!

I've been in your shoes. I looked for over a year. I searched all over New England and most of the NorthEast. I flew to Denver and L.A. I looked at 38 cars. I bought the 39th one I looked at, less than an hour from my house.

The classifieds here and other 914 sites are a good start. But, it comes down to networking. Let people know what you are looking for and what you want to spend. And, most importantly, participate in the forum. As someone that bought a 914 new, you can provide us a lot of insight. The more you participate, you will come to mind quicker when we hear of cars becoming available.

I got my car through networking. It wasn't advertised. But, someone who knew what I was looking for had me in mind when he heard that a 914 may be coming on the market.

Good luck!

Posted by: jarbuthnot Aug 22 2003, 08:49 PM

Thanks for the welcome!

I definitely plan on getting a mechanic to look at the car, as I've not a clue. Has anyone used Auto Critic or AutomobileInspectionsonline.com? Any comments about them? What about Pep Boys, although my inclination is to take it to a Porsche dealer first, Pep Boys are everywhere.

I also plan on flying out and driving back, that's the whole point of having a fun car to drive, but my last cross country trip in my old 914, I blew a carburator or something in Needles, CA in summer. Had the car towed to Las Vegas, left it there for two weeks and came back for it.

The classifieds here are good and there are two possibles, plus two at another site. Didn't see anything at Renn and didn't know about Pelican, but will try them.

Thanks for the advise and I'll keep you posted on my search.

Joan A

Posted by: Qarl Aug 22 2003, 08:59 PM

Definitely get someone who knows air-cooled Porsche cars or at least air-cooled VW engines to go over the motor. You need someone with 914 knowledge to know all the tricky things to look for.

Pep Boys, Critic or AutomobileInspectionsonline.com won't know squat about 914s.

Pelican Parts has a Buyer's guide you can print out. Buy a copy of 914 and 914-6 Porsche (A Restores Guide to Authenticity) by Dr. B. Johnson if you want to brush up on differences between model years and learn how to determine what's stock and what's not.

There are hundres of us here around the country. IF there is a promising 914 you find somewhere else in the country, chances are someone on this group can look at it for you before you decide to fly out.

Best advice any of us can give you is... take your time and look for the RIGHT car...

Also, it's better to pay a few thousand more for a restored or mint car, then to get a project car and dump $5,000 in it to get it where you want.

Posted by: nebreitling Aug 22 2003, 09:00 PM

i have had nothing but negative experience dealing with mechanics who were not intimately familiar w/ 914's. frankly, i wouldn't trust a Pep Boys or sim. mechanic to accurately diagnose the condition of your future car. porsche dealer's are way expensive and may not have any experience w/ 914's. find a shop that does primarily porsches and volkwagons. ask how many 914's they see on a regular basis. ask people on this board for recc's. learn as much as possible what to look for yourself.

or better yet, fly out to the bay area, buy a car w/ much less rust for much less $$$, and drive it back!

nathan

Posted by: GWN7 Aug 22 2003, 10:07 PM

Hi and welcome to the board.

If you find a car near you. Take pictures of it and post them here. There is a wealth of well trained eyes on this board that can pick out possible future problems.

Posted by: jarbuthnot Aug 22 2003, 11:09 PM

My problem is, I'll most likely be doing all this by long distance and I'm lazy. Luckily I have a very good mechanic here who is an old-VW Bug bug, otherwise I couldn't even consider getting one (I'm in very rural eastern Maine).

I've been picking up stuff from your boards, and found some more that Dave Darling wrote on what to look for and was planning on giving that to the mechanic. I couldn't find the buyers guide on Pelican.

Thanks you guys. (Am I the only woman on here?) It's past my bedtime and my ISP keeps disconnecting me.

Joan A

Posted by: seanery Aug 23 2003, 08:20 AM

Hi Joan!

Welcome. You're not the only female, we've got a handful running around here somewhere.

I have to echo what everyone else has said so far.

+ Don't let PepBoys or Kragen or anybody like that touch a 914, they won't have the slightest idea-even with a "what to look for" sheet.

+ If you find something local or find a car with several pics, we'll scrutinize the car the best we can with the pics provided.

+ Buy a west coast car - they are cheaper there and they are much cleaner. My first 914 was purchased in Indy when I was 19 and it had major problems hiding under a nice paintjob. I lived in LA for 4 years and found that good rustfree and nearly rustfree cars are to be had for a good price. We have lots of folks in the LA, SF, Seattle and SD areas that could probably check out cars for you.

+ If you find a good car out west drive it home. Ask Curvie about that. I love the drive across the country, too!!


Best of Luck!!

Posted by: Bleyseng Aug 23 2003, 08:35 AM

Jim Chambers has a 1971 1.7 in PERFECT ORGINAL condition for sale in the classifieds for $6500. If you want a nice 1.7 that is a great car as it has NO rust.

Geoff

Posted by: ArtechnikA Aug 23 2003, 08:39 AM

those guys are factory-trained mechanics. therefore, most of them only know water-cooled cars. some of them have never seen a 914 - do you want them learning on your car ? they've also probably seen very few pre-76 cars - all they know is galvanised bodies - they have little experience with the horrors of rust and where it lurks, especially in our cars.

true story - only a couple of years ago a Sierra Nevada Region member was on his way East to Parade in is 914.6 - which went on to win best in class at the concours. starter finally failed (weak point on these cars...) so he called a dealer on his route to the next overnight stop. the *Service Manager* said "wow! we've never seen a car as old as 1970, but we'll be glad to take a look" ! (you can imagine what i deal with when i'm traveling with the '53 ...)

Posted by: seanery Aug 23 2003, 08:39 AM

That would be a GREAT car!!!
no sail vinyl either!!!

Posted by: Bleyseng Aug 23 2003, 08:47 AM

If Jim is selling it, its a nice car. At $6500 that is a good price for a really nice low mileage car.
Buy the Best car you can afford unless you can only afford $2000. Save you money up if thats the case as a cheap car (project) will require so much time and money to make it at best a good car.
Geoff

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Aug 23 2003, 08:50 AM

Hi Joan, Welcome to the BBS! Great to have a lady member, especially an original owner. These cars are a hard habit to break...but who would want to? Its a great community and we are here to help.

You need to tell us specifically what you are interested in and be prepared to be patient. Good condition 914s here in Northern California are available, but its all about condition and price, and there is alot of junk too. There are a few of us here who will spot candidates for you and give you options. Tell us everything that is important for you:

year, color, engine size, options, condition, price range etc.

Most 914 owners want:

73-74 2.0L
Rust is not wanted anywhere, but one has to know where to look.

Or do you want a Six?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Aug 23 2003, 08:52 AM

love your new avatar, Bleysing. that simple framed white box with the striking red X is elegant in its simplicity, yet moving in its expressiveness...

Posted by: Bleyseng Aug 23 2003, 08:56 AM

Yeah, I worked really hard to achieve that effect. I don't know what wrong with the new one I downloaded this night. OH well.
Jims Car for sale, 1971


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Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 23 2003, 09:09 AM

welcome, we LOVE to pick the cars apart. look for any picture with "rust" in the thread. me? look for a 2.0 73'. if you're looking for a comfy driver get a car that hasn't been sprung tight. how much do you have to spend? not specificly, just ballpark.

kevin

Posted by: jarbuthnot Aug 23 2003, 10:44 AM

Ok, here goes - I'm looking for one that's in very good condition, mechanically and physically. Model/year doesn't matter, but would prefer a 4 without the vinyl sail panels. However, it appears I can have those removed. Doesn't have to have everything original, e.g. seat covers, mirrors, but it does have to have the original look and feel of the original non-appearance group. The important part to me - I want silver; black would be ok. Don't want extra stuff like rear spoilers and what-not.

I've seen Jim's ad, we've been in touch and I do believe it's a great car, but it's tangerine. Somehow, I just can't see me in a tangerine car (although it would go nicely with my silver hair). I'm a little conservative when it comes to car colors. How much would it cost to have it repainted?

As for price, I think that $6500 would be my top price (I know, I'm probably crazy for not snapping up Jim's car). It sounds like the NADA prices are way off and probably shouldn't even be used as guidelines.

I really appreciate all the info you all have given. I'm getting excited and am getting new-car-fever!!

Joan A

Posted by: ArtechnikA Aug 23 2003, 11:21 AM

please don't get fixated on cosmetics and trinkets. seat upholstery, mittors, carpets, mirrors, center consoles, ets, are all dealt with fairly easily and inexpensively. even engines can be straightforward if not trivial if what you want is a dependable fun car and are not obsessed with the constant search for more power (the 914 is able to make better use of limited HP than most other cars.)

the big thing you need to concentrate on is NO RUST and structurally straight (no crash-bent tubs). the money you may have to pay for upholstery and carpeting is a teeny drop in the bucket compared to what structural rust reconstruction can cost you. if you have this done by an experience body & frame guy there can be hundreds of hours involved - you do the math at $85/hr... THEN you get to start thinking about paint :-) ...

there is no upper bound on paint, especially for a full change of color. the big question is actually not 'what will it cost to have painted' but 'what will it cost to have painted -again-' -- very darned few of these 30-year-old cars have all original paint. (and i bet -zero- silver ones - Porsche had very bad luck with silver in the early 70's and had to eat repaints on a bunch of 911's...) if there aren't too many coats on the car already and can do with just another recoat and basic color-change stuff (like - not engine compartment, probably not trunks... well - it still depends on what part of the world you live in. -good- auto paint is about $80/qt, you'd need 4 or 5 maybe - plus an equal amount of similarly priced reducer (thinner). plus the time to prep it and spray it. or you can pay $299 at A1 or Maaco and it'd probably look decent for a year or two. you can pay about as much or as little as your conscience will allow...

i wasn't instantly inspired by my car's yellow color, but the more i priced repaints the more it grew on me. now, i wouldn't change, even though it desperately needs bodywork and paint - it'll get the original 'Canary Yellow' when it does eventually get paint...

Posted by: Bleyseng Aug 23 2003, 11:22 AM

Silver or Black cars are the top colors for some reason. Followed by yellow and then red. Tangerine is a stunning color in person BTW.
Silver or Black cars are boring (sorry Kevin) and don't show the body lines off, IMHO
Another thing to remember if the car is to be driven on the street is its so small compared to today huge SUV's and even Hondas. A brite color helps to keep the other cars aware of you!!! When I drive in traffic I am in constant fear of being run into as I am eye level with their hubcaps!

You will have to luck out to find a nice silver 73 2.0l car for $6500, can be done though.

Geoff

Posted by: si2t3m Aug 23 2003, 11:33 AM

Hi Joan,

considering the fact that we are not too far away (i'm in Quebec city, Quebec, Canada), i do know of one for sale in my area. I didn't see it personally but i could go take a look. I know, it might no be the right color, and the fact that i read no rust and new floors doesn't sound good.

Here is the description:

Price : $8,500.00cdn
Kms: 106000 Km.

PORSCHE 914 1974, 106,000 kms, 2L, original paint, really nice condition, inspected 07/2003, no rust, new floors, new batterie, second owner
(514) 726-9491 or (450) 653-9491.


HTH

Marc-André


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Posted by: anthony Aug 23 2003, 11:48 AM

Joan,

Figure on paying $3.5-5K for a 1.7/1.8L car or $5-7K for a 73/74 2L car in very nice daily driver condition.

Silver and black cars can be hard to find since they were optional, extra charge, colors. If you get stuck on finding the right color you might have to wait a long, long time for the right car to come along. I wanted black and I ended up with a nice silver car. Just buy a really nice car that needs nothing and have lots of fun driving it.

Posted by: Charles Deutsch Aug 23 2003, 11:51 AM

Rust is the number one problem with the 914. If you want to get a good idea of where the major rust problems are, go to http://www.restoration-design.com and click on "Chassis & Exterior" and look at the installation slide show pictures.

Charles

Posted by: jarbuthnot Aug 23 2003, 05:10 PM

That's what I'm really looking for. And I am aware that rust is a big problem.

Marc-Andre

Thanks for the offer, it's very kind. But I agree, the new floors, no rust sound iffy. I can't believe a car that's 30 years old has no rust!! I think I'll stick to ads on the internet, for some reason, I'm more comfortable with them.

Geoff

As for being seen in traffic, not a problem here. Bad traffic is when all the summer people are up here and I have to wait for five cars and a semi to go by until I can make a left hand turn on to a highway. The closest freeway is over two hours away. It's great!!

If I did re-paint, it would have to be a very good job, which I may not be able to get up here. So, you-all have convinced me not to do that. And I'm re-thinking my color choice (talk about wishy-washy).

What I want is a rust-free car, that looks great, runs better and needs no work. Doesn't have to have a lot of horse-power, just be fun to drive.

Joan A

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Aug 23 2003, 06:45 PM

Marc Andre...

That car you posted looks like a Limited Edition Bumblebee...

Do you have an email address or other contact information of the owner? I have tried the phone numbers posted, but no answer yet...

I need to know more about this car...

Can you supply the VIN number?

Posted by: Bleyseng Aug 23 2003, 06:53 PM

AAAhh, thats better! An open mind to the best car you can find. I wish I had done that!lol, but I bought before the internet stuff.

Geoff

Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 24 2003, 07:43 AM

so is nepal orange. a little grey primer on the fenders REALLY sets it off. sorry geoff. silver does fade into the field of vision on a bright day. thank heavens for those 2 tone horns.

kevin
"fading and honking"

Posted by: Bleyseng Aug 24 2003, 08:10 AM

Atleast with my car you can tell where the work has been done, on your silver car the silver and primer all blend together.

Geoff

Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 24 2003, 08:19 AM

that yellow 74' 2.0 was still in the auto trader last week. i wonder what's wrong with it. we should go look at it. i bet it's $3500 now. 2 guys pull up in 14's for a ppi with ice picks and kitchen magnets. last thing i would want if i was unloading a ruster.

kevin

Posted by: jarbuthnot Aug 27 2003, 08:40 PM

Just wanted you all to know - I've put a deposit down on a 914. If the PPI goes well, which I'm sure it will, I'm flying out to Oregon in 10 days or so to pick it up and drive it back to Maine.

Thanks for all your advise and good words.

Joan A

Posted by: boxstr Aug 27 2003, 08:47 PM

Joan Hello I spoke to Jim tonight and he told me the chain of events that have lead to your possible purchase of his car. Hope to be able to meet you when you are here, I would like to here about you first 914.
I hope that the PPI goe's okay. It is a nice car .
Craig C. Laughlin CAMP 914

Posted by: seanery Aug 27 2003, 09:52 PM

Is he looking at the Tangarine Dream?

man, i like that one!!!

Posted by: Bleyseng Aug 27 2003, 10:14 PM

I wanna sales bonus!!!

lol



That is a sweet car and you should be happy!

Posted by: redshift Aug 28 2003, 01:04 AM

Congrats! I love Jim's car! It's beautifully plain.

You did a good thing, I think you are going to be happy.


M

Posted by: Curvie Roadlover Aug 28 2003, 05:33 AM

Great! You will love the drive. When I picked up my car in CA last fall and drove it back to MI I was really surprized at how comfortable a car it was for a long haul like that. I brought a bottle of motrin in anticipation of soreness from the ride, but never opened it. Congratulations on your purchase.

Posted by: Part Pricer Aug 28 2003, 05:48 AM

Congratulations Joan! Way to go!

Make sure that you let us know about your travel plans. If you give us your intended route and anticipated times, I'm sure that some members will want to venture out to check out your new 914. We can also provide a good support network for your cross-country trip.

Posted by: Racer Chris Aug 28 2003, 06:09 AM

Hi Joan,

I'm sure you will enjoy driving your new (to you) Tangerine 914, and the contrast with your silver hair won't be any worse than no hair at all.
Congratulations,
Chris

Posted by: jarbuthnot Aug 28 2003, 03:26 PM

That's a "she", not a "he" that's looking

It will be a long trip, but I've done LA to Hartford, with an involuntary stop in Las Vegas due to a blown cylinder and ended up having two replaced (all this in my original 914 in '82).

I'm really looking forward to it. Don't know my exact route yet, but I'm stopping in Kansas City for two nights, Cleveland for one, and W. Springfield, Mass. for another. I hope to leave Portland on the 10th with my bottle of bourbon safely in the back trunk along with the Haynes Repair/Owners Manual that Jim convinced me to buy.

Joan A

Posted by: ArtechnikA Aug 28 2003, 03:31 PM

congratulations ! however, IMO, your Bourbon would be much happier in the front trunk. the back trunk is behind the engine, and over the exhaust and transmission; it runs quite hot.

Posted by: seanery Aug 28 2003, 03:37 PM

sorry about that.
My notebook's keyboard isn't always right on.

SSSSSSSS

SHE.

there ya go!

orry again!

Posted by: Lawrence Aug 28 2003, 08:39 PM

Joan,

If/when you decide to drive back... advise us on your route. Usually, if you need help on the road, most of us are willing to help a fellow 914 owner in a jam.

Get a Haynes manual, a basic set of tools, and a few spare parts (fuses, fanbelt, a relay, and maybe points, cap and rotor).

-Rusty

Posted by: GWN7 Aug 28 2003, 09:29 PM

Add a spare clutch cable and throtle cable to the spares list too. If either breaks in the middle of nowhere, you might have to wait a few days to get the parts.

Posted by: Curvie Roadlover Aug 28 2003, 09:32 PM

Do you speak from experience?

Posted by: GWN7 Aug 28 2003, 09:41 PM

Actually no, when I drove the 70 home from the West coast, no problems at all (cept for mystery shift and hot starting), but on the way home from Ohio 2 weeks ago. There was someone who could have used a clutch cable. Between 5 of us, no one had one.

When you get the car, use Curvie's trick and get a stick to use as a deadmans throttle, for those long streaches of road.

Posted by: Curvie Roadlover Aug 29 2003, 04:04 AM

Huh?

Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 29 2003, 07:06 AM

joan, i bought my silver 73' from jim via craig. can you time it for the swap meet in portland next month? you might want to bring some extra $$. no telling what else jim will come across by the time you get there. when you get to his house you'll say "OH MY!!".

kevin