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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ L-jet wiring at coil
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 28 2005, 10:36 PM
okay, so I know that L-jet uses the point pulses to fire injectors...my main relay is working, so what connections do i need at the coil?
i already have the tach wire, the point wire at the neg and nothing at the positive....
but i have a brown wire and two black wires joined to one both sets of wires having 12VDC on them....what gives?
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 28 2005, 10:55 PM
and i also have a white FI wire coming way off and out of the way of the harness which could also be the trigger wire....
why int he hell is a brown wire getting 12V?
b
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Dec 28 2005, 11:21 PM
Britt-
There is a series of 3 L-Jet diagrams under links on my wiring harness website for an L-Jet harness. Seet eh FI harness section. There are actually three different L-Jet 914 harnesses, so does this one match your harness? Maybe its of some help anyway.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 28 2005, 11:23 PM
Your L-Jet is from a 1974.
The double relay has a black wire that goes to pin (15) on the coil.
The ECU harness pin (1) goes to pin (1) on the coil {also supposed to be black}
The 'other' wires terminating at the coil are:
pin (1) Green to points
pin (1) Black/Purple to Tachometer
pin (15) Black (+12V from fuse S9)
No brown wires should terminate at the coil. I believe you may have something wired incorrectly.
Do you have the wiring diagrams?
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 28 2005, 11:30 PM
let's do this step by step then:
A)where does the FI "WHITE" wire (that veers from the main bundle and is very long) terminate? Is it ground, or 12V?
B ) There is a YELLOW wire over by the relay board...where does this item go?
C) There is a set (two crimped together) of BLACK wires....where do these wires go?
D) I see a tan wire, maybe even white coming from the relay board connector..12V on it.
i tried a couple of combo's and all of them seemed to result in clicking from the dual relay...
E) that lug from the dual relay (RED WIRE) is indeed 12V correct?
b
Posted by: lapuwali Dec 28 2005, 11:35 PM
The white wire may go to the AAR. It's just switched +12. The yellow wire is usually the starter wire, esp. if it's heavier gauge than many of the other wires.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 28 2005, 11:39 PM
the yellow wire is regular sized wire...this harness is SO much different than my D-jet harness...
b
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Dec 28 2005, 11:51 PM
L-Jet harnesses are completely different than D-Jet.
Draw us a diagram of your harness. Show how many poles each connector has and their location. Label each branch connector with a letter or number. Scan it and post it or email it to me.
bowlsby@sbcglobal.net
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 28 2005, 11:58 PM
mine is the 74 without the altitude compensator.
if you're referring to the OTHer harness coming from the relay board then I can do that for ya tomorrow.
I'll take pics as well.
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 12:03 AM
(E) Red from the Dual relay -> To Batttery +12V
(
Yellow from Dual relay -> To Pin II of the (4) pin connector on the Regulator board (ties into starter yellow wire)
(A) The white FI wires are numbered if you look closely (I believe in red) If you could get a number, I could tell where it goes.
PM me your e-mail and I'll send you the AFC wiring diagram I just scanned for you.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 08:55 AM
and the FI wire is labeled "1" which goes to the coil, presumably the negative terminal.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 09:00 AM
oh and Jeff thanks for the figures on your site, I looked them up early yesterday.
I really appreciate it....
b
Posted by: Flat VW Dec 29 2005, 09:06 AM
Gonna be 78 degrees F. here today Britt.
Tom arrives here in about an hour. 
'Detroit style' Coney Island chili dogs for lunch, chased down with Michigan apple cider. 
John
P.S. End of
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 09:08 AM
it's going to be 40F here, i'm stuck in the garage and my mom asks me every ten minutes if im done so she can put her jaguar back in the garage.
dang....sounds fun. I like apple cider.
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 09:41 AM
Britt,
What do you need.
We have a 74 ljet all done....
Let me know where you are at and I can go look at the live system.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 09:48 AM
i am like almost there.....
im SO close....
I think that yellow wire is my culprit. Which pin is pin II?
im trying to get the spark going...worked fine for months until today. and then i think once thats taken care of, the car will start right up.
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 10:18 AM
Britt,
neg coil
green wire to points
white wire to FI harness, it comes out near the battery
BL/BR wire
Pos Coil
dual black.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 10:21 AM
yeah but that wierd white or brown wire (from dual relay) has 12V on it...
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 10:24 AM
I have the big dual relay thing, and the smaller dual square box style relay mounted to the battery tray...
Which wire are you talkng about...
I will go look.
Rich
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 10:26 AM
tell me , when you lay the harness down where it is supposed to go, where is this wire coming out of the harness?
I will go look there and trace the wire...
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 10:27 AM
its not on the FI harness but off of the dual relay...
it comes out of that split between where it goes left (toward the relay board) and right (toward where I have the dual relay).
b
Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 29 2005, 10:38 AM
pictures can help us help you...
help us....help you.....
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 10:43 AM
ok, the entire wiring harness that enables your FI system is called the FI wiring harness.
On mine (a 74 ljet)
the place where the brown wire leaves the wiring covering...the black plastic tube.....it at the same place all the coil wires coe out and the oil pressure sender.
That brown wire is grounded to the main ground connector at the top of the case, on the passenger side rear of the motor, it is using a case bolt just like djet. That is a five spade connector.
The yellow wire that appears there, but does not leave the tubing is going back to the relay board (the one behind the driver)
Rich
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Dec 29 2005, 10:59 AM
Does the yellow wire have a 1/4" wide long-blade male wire terminal? If so it should go to the TS2 (head temp sensor).
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 11:10 AM
here's a pic. I dont even have spark now, and I had it yesterday.
The spade connector is laying in the relay board now, so i doubt it wouls stretch to the other side of the engine. Everything is there, and it *SHOULD* work, but i get neither spark nor fuel and i have voltage in all the right places.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 11:20 AM
start simple.
Do you have power to the coil, key on?
If so, with a test light, you need to test your points to make sure they are stil ok...
The way you said you were plugging things in and testing it live makes me scared you might have shorted something out...
Make sure the CHT is plugged in.
Make sure all your grounds are plugges in.
if you dont have power to the coil, you need to back up and deal with that first.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 11:22 AM
i do have power to the coil, 12V at one end and the points on the other end. What blows my mind is that i dont get a spark, as verified by my timing light, although it could be a bad timing light. I definately dont get fuel....believe me, i have my multimeter sitting on the back trunk and ive been using it....
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 11:34 AM
get a test light.
I believe you may have power to the coil.
You cannot test the points with a multimeter.
they do not provide enough resistance.
I had this problem also and it was purely related to setting the points up correctly.
We also changed the coil to another one and it had spark.
Might be a bad coil, or you may have killed it by plugging in the leads to the wrong side or backwards...
Not sure...but the coil sounds bad.
You can make it fire
key on /power to coil with a jumper.
turn distributor to make point close and open...get it just close to opening...
I use an old plug and an old plug lead, plug the lead into the coil, plug the plug in to the other end...ground the body of the plug to the fan shroud...
use leather or rubber gloves to hold it...it will hurt.
turn dizzy back and forth opening and closing the points to get the coil to fire..
you could have shorted the coil, shorted the condensor, or burned the points so bad that they will not carry the juice.
If you have a test light, you can check you point coil and condensor with a test light...each have different tests...
These tests cannot be done with a multimeter...there is not enough resistance...
You can make a test light with a 12V single filament bulb, some wire and a soldering gun/tape...
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 11:45 AM
i have two sets of everything, two coils and two dizzy's...one of each was in the box of stuff i recieved....
i have *NO CLUE* what's going on...but those black wires have 12V on them.
i'll try the test light idea.
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 11:50 AM
pull a plug wire, connect it to an old plug, ground it out and check for a spark.
If no spark, you need to work backwards.
If you have power to the coil you are not getting it through to the spark plug.
There are aonly three things to check now.
Points
Condensor
Coil
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:05 PM
okay i pulled a plug and voila! i have spark....
so how do i get the FI to work now?
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 12:10 PM
so, with a test light.
mount one side of test light to positive side of coil
mount the other side to ground.
Key to on position.
if light works you have power to the coil.
I know you did this with the multi meter...just do it with a light to both test the light and double check your readings...you may read 12v, but if the light is dim, you dont have enough amps...
Points/condensor testing
now take the test light lead that is connected to the positive side of the coil and move it to the negative side of the coil
remove the HD coil wire to the dizzy cap
remove cap and turn motor by hand.
the light should light up every time the points open..
test all four dizzy cam lobes to make sure you have no short in the dizzy.
if that is not the case, if the light does not light , and the points are clean and there is no crap in them, you need a condensor.
you can confirm the condesor test by putting the test light inline.
Unplug the green wire going to the negative side of the coil.
put the test light in that circuit and turn the motor over by hand with the key on.
the light should light, if not, you have a bad condensor.
Coil testing.
Put everything back together,,, rotor and all. (please tell me that you have a rotor...I have forgotten that more than once...)
Pull the coil wire from the center of the distributor cap.
hold the coil wire 1/8 inch away from a good ground.
this is the leather glove part (it does hurt)
turn motor by hand
if spark is blue/blue white/white you have a good coil
If spark is yellow and strong, you will need a new coil, but it will work for now
If spark is weak, or no spark, you need a new coil.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:11 PM
and does somebody have a relay board pic of a L-jet car so I can dismiss the yellow wire from causing the problem?
b
PS=I really appreciaTE you all helping me out. Thank you. Have a cold one on me.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:13 PM
teh spark was real yellow....
but i have spark.
i'll do the other steps....
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 12:13 PM
ok, good, you have spark.
now key on.
open up the aircleaner box...or remove it from the throttle body (its easier that way)
slide your hand in there and feel the flapper valve...
with key on, and radio off....move flapper valve and listen for the fuel pump.
Do you here it? If not you are not getting power to the relays...they feed power to the fuel pump.
tell me those results.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:18 PM
i had my fuel pump re-wired to the front trunk and its no longer connected to the original wiring....
i hear it clicking when i connect that brown wire to the FI ground connections....could i hook a test light to the fuel pump connectors?
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 12:21 PM
The relay boards are the same d-jet and l-jet.
I don't have my manuals at work so I can't scan the relay board in. There might be a pic of it on this site somewhere.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:23 PM
there was, I looked at it yesterday.
anyway, with test-light/multimeter, i get nothing when i mess with the AFM.
this is bad isnt it?
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 12:25 PM
you will need to have the correct fuel pump installed and the correct wiring I believe...
If not, you will at least need to make sure it runs while the car is running.
On DJET the pump runs and primes the system when you turn the key on.
On LJET the pump only runs when the flapper valve moves, therefore, you need to figure out a way to run the pump now before you start it for the first time to prime the lines...
You probably have no fuel in the lines.
run the pump and listen for the air bubbles in the gas tank, you will hear the pump change tone once you have pressurised the system.
I found that the timing had to be perfect...
I static timed it with new plugs and wires...primed the pump and it started right up...
You need to have the aircleaner hook up correctly, or the flapper valve will not be metering the airflow and the car will stall right away...
You could potentially do that by hand, but it works the way it is supposed to , so hook it all up.
Make sure you have your fule rails all tight and not leaks.
You need your Aux air regulator hooked up and all your vacuum lines hooked up...or she wont start.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:30 PM
the pump is already primed. heard the bubbles and everything. so im good.
whats with the AAR needing to be hooked up...I dont have currently the coldstart valve, the thermotime switch hooked up and the AAR is electrically hooked up. the resulting holes in the system are plugged.
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 12:33 PM
aar has vacuum hoses to it and the intake...
all vacuum lines need to be in place correctly, not monkey rigged...
This is a very touchy system versus the djet...no mony rigging allowed....
I spent several days trying to get it started and until all was correct it would not start.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:34 PM
guess i need to go to FLAPS.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:35 PM
but okay, whats the deal with no power at the fuel pump when the AFM is moved?
is it that yellow wire?
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 12:41 PM
You could jumper a ground to make the fuel pump run per this pic.
This would energize the fuel pump relay when the key is on (as long as you are still using the fuel pump relay on the relay board).
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 12:42 PM
The deal is that you changed the wiring to the fuel pump.
I would suggest that you put the wiring correctly to the fuel pump so that the AFM controls it as it was designed...
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:44 PM
well the issue here isnt that my fuel pump doesnt run--the issue is that, while my fuel pump runs, I get no indication that the FI system is working. I can only sumise from the bubbles that my regulator is hooked up correctly (and from the hose diagrams from Pelican it shows they are) and that I have spark. Besides from the clicking when connecting wires from the relay, I have no reason to believe that this is even on.
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 12:46 PM
hang on for a sec....
that is the djet relay setup....
I only have one relay there...
Look in the haynes manual...it shows a pic of how the relays should look and the spare wire that is connected to the open bank of tabs.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:49 PM
HUH? 
I have the same relay board.
I'm screwed aren't I?
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 12:51 PM
no the relay board is the same.
The LJET uses only one relay from that board.
The other relays are under the battery tray and are bigger..
Rich
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 12:56 PM
B
The relay boards are the same D-Jet or L-Jet. It's the wire harnesses that are different. The spare relays shown in the pic are spares (I believe mainly to keep dirt out of the pin holes).
Does your fuel pump wiring still use the fuel pump relay?
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 12:59 PM
at this present moment, no. I have the Haynes manual and I found pin II on the relay board, so the yellow wire is connected. As soon as I get this running, I was going to go to radioshack to pick up some connectors and wire my fuel pump the *RIGHT* way.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 01:10 PM
following this troubleshooting guide for L-jet motors, I get to the part where it suggests to replace the dual relay...
is this a FLAPS part, or special order?
b
Posted by: lapuwali Dec 29 2005, 01:15 PM
You should be able to test the relays themselves. There's nothing magic about them, they work just like other relays do.
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 01:22 PM
dont make it so complicated in your mind.
to make it fire and start you need gas, air and spark.
You have spark.
you need fuel.
You can run the pump all the time , and it will last for a bit, but eventually it will burn out.
So for this test, jumper it so it is running and make sure you have fuel at the injectors, at the right time...
I take out both injectors from one side, put them in baby food glass jars, run the pump and turn the motor over...
You should get fuel in each jar...if not they are not getting the signal to fire...
it is an electrical signal of something like 3volts.
Again a test light will work here also.
If you find one is getting fuel and the other is not, switch them to make sure the injector is not clogged.
Make sure you have pressure at the injector as well.
Dont be looking for relays just yet.
As I recall they control the fuel injectors, so you need to determine which one is bad, if any.
Rich
Rich
Posted by: Mueller Dec 29 2005, 01:27 PM
| QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 29 2005, 12:10 PM) |
| following this troubleshooting guide for L-jet motors, I get to the part where it suggests to replace the dual relay... is this a FLAPS part, or special order? b |
I think it's a specific dual relay, last time I bought a new one it was $75.....
you should easily be able to duplicate the dual relay using the stock relay board or use 2 of the GM style square relays, I'd lean towards using the 2 GM square relays, just make sure you use insulated female spade terminals and crimp them good....GM type relay should be less than $10 each
it's pretty basic, AFM energizes 1 relay* which turns on the fuel pump...easy
the second relay gets energized via either from the 1st relay or the AFM as well which then supplies 12vdc to the injectors (the + goes thru the resistors before the injectors, very important to follow that)
*(without looking at the wiring diagram, not sure if it really supplies + or if it supplies ground to complete the circuit)
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 01:30 PM
now the battery is dead.
this day is good.
b
Posted by: jim912928 Dec 29 2005, 01:39 PM
Easy way to check if your injectors are opening/closing on an ljet before popping them off is to:
1. remove the distributer cap
2. make sure the points are closed
3. turn on the ignition
4. open and close the points (don't use a metal instrument..don't want to fry anything!)
By doing this, you should be able to hear the injectors opening/closing...you'll hear a noticble click at each one. This will tell you if you are getting juice to the injectors. If those are clicking...then you have a fuel distribution problem. Here I'd make sure you have oil the fuel lines hooked up in the right direction. I'd go look at mine but it's up in milwaukee and I'm in IN this week.
Jim
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 01:48 PM
uh, houston, no power to the injectors.
b
Posted by: Mueller Dec 29 2005, 01:59 PM
| QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 29 2005, 12:48 PM) |
| uh, houston, no power to the injectors. b |
relay problem.....do you have power to the resistor pack?
I'm guessing no....
Posted by: Mueller Dec 29 2005, 02:02 PM
for testing ONLY......
you could run a 12vdc + to the resistor pack and fuel pump using a toggle switch (the toggle switch would "mimic" the AFM being opened and the relay circuit activated when flipped on)
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:03 PM
EDIT!
no power to resistor pack.
now what? i'm going 
b
Posted by: Mueller Dec 29 2005, 02:04 PM
| QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 29 2005, 01:03 PM) |
| through which terminal.? the central one or ? b |
yes, the central terminal of the resitor pack is 12vdc+, the other 4 wires go directly to the injectors
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:09 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Dec 29 2005, 02:04 PM) | ||
yes, the central terminal of the resitor pack is 12vdc+, the other 4 wires go directly to the injectors |
no power at any of the terminals with key on.
is the relay dead?
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 02:13 PM
Does the relay click when you turn the key on?
Is pin #85 grounded? (it must be for the dual relays to operate)
Posted by: Mueller Dec 29 2005, 02:14 PM
is the AFM open?
when the AFM opens, a microswitch completes the circuit which activates the 2 coils inside the dual relay, as soon as these coils activate, one give power to the fuel pump, the other one supplies power to the resistor pack.
You should be able to pop the cover off of the dual relay and see what happens when you have the key on and the AFM opens....
you can also manually over-ride the coils inside by pressing down on the lever on top of the coil
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:15 PM
if its the brown wire, then yes its grounded. I just checked my mail 
I hope this thing works, it looks so nice!!
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:22 PM
I opened up the dual relay and manually engaged the contacts and the injectors clicked! So how do I get the computer to do this for me?
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:22 PM
I open the AFM and nada...nothin.
Might as well be closed.
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 02:27 PM
B,
Have you opened the PDF of the wiring diagram I sent you?
The dual relay is not that complicated.
Relay 1:
Feeds power to the resistor pack and to pin 10 of the ECU. The Power is supplied by th elarge red wire. The coil of the relay is energized (+12v) by the black coil wire that terminates at the dual relay.
________________________
Relay 2:
Feeds power to the fuel pump (Black/red wire), and feeds power to the Aux Air Valve.
The coil of this relay is energized in one of two ways:
With the key in the on position (relay 1 energized);
1) The flap in the air flow meter is slightly opened closing a switch. Power is fed from the output of relay #1 through the switch in the AFM and powers the coil for relay #2.
2) The starter is bumped (yellow wire energized). This will energize the coil on relay #2.
Without the ground for the dual relay, neither coil will operate as they share a common ground (according to the diagram).
I sure hope this helps.
Posted by: Mueller Dec 29 2005, 02:30 PM
| QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 29 2005, 01:22 PM) |
| I open the AFM and nada...nothin. Might as well be closed. b |
now you have to figure out if you are getting power to the AFM
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:31 PM
okay...let me back up for a sec. I plugged the yellow wire coming off of the relay board plug fro L-jet into plug II, top right. When I started the car, it continued to start (without the key in the ign) until I pulled the yellow wire. Is it supposed to go into there.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:34 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Dec 29 2005, 02:30 PM) | ||
now you have to figure out if you are getting power to the AFM |
i'm going to get my powerbook. one minutre and i'll give you instant results. Thank you guys for helping out a doofus who thought I could get this working in one day.
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 02:41 PM
| QUOTE |
| I plugged the yellow wire coming off of the relay board plug fro L-jet into plug II, top right. When I started the car, it continued to start (without the key in the ign) until I pulled the yellow wire. Is it supposed to go into there. |
No, it's not supposed to do that....
I don't recall the numbering sequence of that 4-pin plug on the relay board.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:44 PM
i had it correct via the haynes manual.
I dunno.
No power to the AFM when powered on.
b
Posted by: jim912928 Dec 29 2005, 02:49 PM
don't be discouraged...once you get the kinks worked out on an ljet...they are rock solid. Your vacuum hoses will be extremely important! You can double check the fuel lines and vacuum lines off of the tech forum on pelican..they have a really good diagram for this.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 02:51 PM
Do you get power at the AFM (pin 39) if you manually trip the relay?
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 02:54 PM
im trying not to......
it helps having people that are willing to help tho
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 03:02 PM
okay i think that if my battery wasnt borderline dead, i'd be off and running.
so i'll work on that.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 03:29 PM
no beans.
back to the drawing board.
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 04:03 PM
You can get the fuel injectors to click when manually actuating the relay?
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 04:04 PM
yep....click click click...it made me happy
it did this even when the key was off.
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 04:18 PM
I suppose that we should start right there.
They should click even with the key off. (you get direct battery voltage from the large red tied to the battery)
So we know that the resistor pack, the injectors, and the wiring for that is OK.
To make the relay trip electrically, we need a ground at relay terminal (85) and power at terminal (86c)
Terminal (86c) is supposed to get power from the coil +12v [terminal (15)].
If you have power and ground respectively at these two relay terminals, the coil should be energized and the relay should trip.
Check this please.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 04:30 PM
it checks out. ground is on 85 and power is on 86c
it just wont start bc the battery is almost dead, but im off to correct this.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 05:06 PM
its off to be recharge, i'll update when it gets back.
Lots of good info here though, i'll print this out....
thx again
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 06:09 PM
I'll try to help any way I can. I know that system works.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 07:33 PM
okay...
it fires.
wont idle and doesnt like to push over 3000...
I havent driven it yet.
if i do nothing, it runs for a second and then dies.
i re-wired the pump circuit, due to the fact that something in the "cockpit" was smoking
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 07:42 PM
Excellent! 
Now you must make sure ALL vacuum leaks are TOTALLY sealed up (even a leaky or loose oil filler cap can make them not run well).
Also you need to set timing and dwell fairly accurately. It will be best when you get all the FI components installed like the aux air regulator and the thermo time switch.
If you need more free advice, I'm full of it!
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 07:53 PM
got a Q for the peanut gallery....
what's up with the generator light, it goes dim-bright-off-dim-dim-bright-off-dim every so often at completly random intervals.
john, thanks for your help.
oh...could this run too rich, since its on a 1.7 engine?
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2005, 07:59 PM
Way to go Britt,
You will love a solid well tuned FI car.
Good luck...
So, got heat yet??
Rich
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 08:03 PM
I don't know if it would run too rich. It is supposed to measure airflow. I would assume that it should work easier with less volume. I just don't know all the dynamic differences between the two engines: Compression Ratio, cam specs, Cylinder Head Flowrate, etc......
Aren't you a young and budding Mechanical Engineer to be? (I thought I read that someplace) You should be able to reverse-engineer it and calculate all those things yourself. (right?)
Your alternator light sounds like it's not alternating as well as it should. Has the engine sat for some time before running? You may have crap on the brushes, the wiring may be corroded (check and clean all connections), the diodes may be failing, or the voltage regulator may be old. You may want to take it to a FLAPS that can do an alternator test on it to see if it is charging like it should or if you need a rebuilt alternator. Some FLAPS will do the test for free. Then you can decide if you need to replace an alternator or a voltage regulator, etc., etc.
just my 0.02
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 08:03 PM
im working on it...
the big step here is to get the car off of the jackstands again, and on the road.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 08:06 PM
maybe i have the fuel pressure regulator backwards?
b
the way I have it, the OUTPUT or (back to tank) connection is off to the side of the unit, while the INPUT or from the fuel lines is connected to the end of the unit.
this unit is a vacuum adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I do have a djet one in there, should i swap them out or what?
Posted by: grasshopper Dec 29 2005, 08:08 PM
sorry...slight hijack here... but i just bought a new dual relay, thinking that was the problem... but my engine still doesn't want to run.... can you fry a dual relay?? i put the new one in, and i turned the key on, and it clicked once... i left for a minute, and when i turned the key back on, it doesn't click anyone... before with the old relay, when i pulled that cap off of the AFM, and moved the contacts, the relay wouldn't click.... i am thinking it is a wiring problem... any thoughts?? Thanks
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 08:12 PM
mine was all in the wiring...three hours ago i was sure i needed a new dual relay. i cleaned everything off and it runs like a charm now, kinda.
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 08:44 PM
grasshopper,
You may want to start a new thread, but to answer your question, you can fry just about anything, but I believe that these dual relays are pretty hardy.
Do you have the factory wiring diagrams for the year of your L-Jet? (Those are a big help)
Do some searching in this thread and some others on this site and you will find some generic L-jet diagrams. That guy that makes and sells harnesses actually has 3 excellent hand sketches with wire numbers. With those and a factory diagram, it should be straight forward to troubleshoot.
I used the wire numbers from those hand sketches and labeled the factory diagram that I printed out. It made some sense out of Britt's problems.
Is your car originally L-Jet or is it a conversion? Did your car ever run correctly? I would consider starting your own thread to troubleshoot your specific problems.
just my 0.02
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 08:49 PM
another thread would be a excellent idea...
Posted by: rdauenhauer Dec 29 2005, 09:12 PM
Britt WOW I been off and missed a lot. OT and perhaps a little to late (ALTL?) but a box of Ljet stuff is headed your way.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 09:53 PM
well it seems like its stubling and rough running, but man is that timing window small....
right now it didnt even want to idle for more than one revolution...
its acting wierd. it seems like its running super lean...but its spitting out an INSANE amount of water, so it might be running rich? Gas is like three days old.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 09:54 PM
rich, thanks buddy. I have the plenum in a box for ya.
just need my car to work so i can take it to the store. I have like two more boxes to take too.
b
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 10:34 PM
Have you double checked that the injector groups are correct? (could #3 & #4 or #1 & #2 be swapped) I recall that two of them had tan boots and the other two had black boots, but I don't recall which ones went where.
The other thing that I keep warning about is air leaks. You must get that thing sealed up tight or it will not run right. (Including the valve covers)
You asked about the fuel pressure regulator earlier. Have you checked your fuel pressure?
Posted by: Mueller Dec 29 2005, 10:38 PM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Dec 29 2005, 09:34 PM) |
| Have you double checked that the injector groups are correct? (could #3 & #4 or #1 & #2 be swapped) I recall that two of them had tan boots and the other two had black boots, but I don't recall which ones went where. The other thing that I keep warning about is air leaks. You must get that thing sealed up tight or it will not run right. (Including the valve covers) You asked about the fuel pressure regulator earlier. Have you checked your fuel pressure? |
on the L-jet, all 4 injectors should fire at the same time so it shouldn't be a problem if not in "pairs" like a D-Jet
Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 29 2005, 10:42 PM
| QUOTE |
| on the L-jet, all 4 injectors should fire at the same time so it shouldn't be a problem if not in "pairs" like a D-Jet |
mmmmkay. It was just a thought....
I am serious about those air leaks though.
Posted by: lapuwali Dec 29 2005, 10:45 PM
| QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Dec 29 2005, 08:34 PM) |
| Have you double checked that the injector groups are correct? (could #3 & #4 or #1 & #2 be swapped) I recall that two of them had tan boots and the other two had black boots, but I don't recall which ones went where. The other thing that I keep warning about is air leaks. You must get that thing sealed up tight or it will not run right. (Including the valve covers) You asked about the fuel pressure regulator earlier. Have you checked your fuel pressure? |
The "injector groups" are completely irrelevant on L-Jet. It's not sequential or even semi-sequential (like D-Jet). There's no relationship between the injector events and the valve events. There can't be, since the system has no way of knowing which valve event is which.
I'd say a vacuum leak is most likely. Lean usually causes a rough idle. Way rich will usually idle just fine until black smoke starts to come out the exhaust. 100% of the air going into the engine has to go through the AFM, or L-Jet doesn't work. Check to see if all of the hose fittings on the plenum either have a hose on them that leads somewhere, or are sealed off. Make sure the vac hoses actually lead somewhere sensible.
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 29 2005, 10:49 PM
my plan is to block off ALL vac connections until the engine runs good, and then i can isolate vac leaks to a particular area and go from there.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 30 2005, 12:39 PM
its running and idling now. while i fix vaccuum leaks, can somebody tell me how to diagnose alternator problems....i think i need a new alternator.
my mom's gonna kill me.
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 30 2005, 12:46 PM
with the car running, put the volt meter on the battery and see what its giving the battery.
With the car off, see what the battery reads...
With all the cranking that you are doing, you may need a new battery...
When you crank a battery to much, you melts the lead inside...it causes a short.
check the voltage with the motor at idle and rev it up to 2500 and see if there is a change...
There should be a slight change.
If your battery reads below 12v after a nice long 1 hour drive...it should be replaced...
If you read less than 12.8 volts when running, you need to replace the alternator or voltage regulator...
The regulators tend to just die...period...
The alternator can and does wear out over time and give off less than optimum voltage...
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 30 2005, 12:49 PM
the alternator light flickers from glowing red to dim red to off at random times.
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 30 2005, 12:50 PM
myabe i should actually start driving it?
b
Posted by: r_towle Dec 30 2005, 12:52 PM
battery could be beat up a bit and low on water...
use distilled water...top it off and go for a drive.
check with a volt meter...
car off
car idling
car revving at 2500
report results.
Rich
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 30 2005, 01:14 PM
off-12.50V
idle-12.64V
2500-12.5V
shit.
i remembered 14V was gud.
so is it the VR or the alternator?
b
Posted by: bd1308 Dec 30 2005, 01:14 PM
uh make that 12.2V at idle now.
b
edit: and 12.4V off now.
Posted by: bd1308 Jan 1 2006, 12:33 AM
worked out the kinks....
my sub-par alternator was made better (not completly solved) by wiring repairs....it works well enough though.
i just need to start plumbing some lines such as the breather, etc.....
b
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