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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Engine Assembly Problems!

Posted by: TeamAxisRacing Jan 6 2006, 08:35 PM

hello i was wondering if some of you engine builder guru's have some ideas what can be wrong with my 1.7liter W code motor i tryed calling brad roberts and jake raby but both didnt answer

so heres the dealio.. the case is together. cam is lined up correctly and the crank bearing pins are lined up (far as i can tell i did it 5 times!) everything was going fine and i was starting to torque the case half bolts and checking the rotating assembly. now there is a point in the rotation where it binds flip it back around about 650-700 degrees and it hits the same spot. sitting there with a flash light i couldnt see any of the conrods or counterwights hitting the case or cam. so i undid all the bolts and nuts to see if it was just the case being tweeked but its not.

now there is quite a bit of endplay since i dont have a flywheel on the assembly but i really dont think that will cause this problem with the rotating mass.

so any suggestions? im going back out too the shop to play with it tommarow thanks... popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: r_towle Jan 6 2006, 08:52 PM

bearings.

Place your bearings into the case with no crank.

Torque the case together and check to see if they are still round...they wont be...

Or, place them in the case halves and measure the amount that is sticking out of the case half...

You may need to machine a bit off of each end of the bearing...

Or you might want to get new bearings...your choice.

Rich

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 6 2006, 09:11 PM

Hammer Time!

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 6 2006, 09:31 PM

put the flywheel on with the 3 shims, no o-ring, no rear seal. see if it turns freely with the flywheel in place.
without the flywheel in place, teh crank will move fore and aft causing it to bind slightly.

Posted by: dmenche914 Jan 6 2006, 11:17 PM

Since you state the jamming happens at about every two revolutions (720 degrees) suspect the jam is in the valve train, oil pump, or distributor drive. the cam turns at half the rate of the crank, so two crank revolutions mean one cam revolution hence one valve train cycle. Driven by the cam is the oil pump, same thing, two revs on the crank give one rev on the oil pump.
The dizzy is driven off the crank, but the gear ratio is also two to one, two crank revs to spin the distributor once.

So my bet is cam gear, oil pump, valve train or distributor drive. could be bad part, junk in the way or what ever.

good luck

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 6 2006, 11:42 PM

dmenche914's logic is good. it is in that area but try it with the flywheel first before you tear it down. if it does not feel 100% RIGHT tear it down and inspect. you should be test fitting everything before final assembly anyway.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 6 2006, 11:46 PM

no oil pump or dizzy drive installed yet. We were gonna try the flywheel on it in the morning as I had the same problem IIRC bout two months ago....

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 7 2006, 12:03 AM

how come all the good engine building parties are so far away

Posted by: KenH Jan 7 2006, 12:11 AM

If you changed the CAM gear - see if the bolts are hitting the oil pump.

Ken

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 7 2006, 10:43 AM

yes, new cam gear but the oil pump isn't in yet! I keep lookin inside to see if the crank cheeks are rubbing the case as its pretty loose for and aft. We'll add the flywheel and see how that goes....

early case with a windage tray but no way toseal it as it doen't have the cast in shelf.

Should make a nice 80hp

shocked[1].gif

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 7 2006, 10:44 AM

what is teh virdict?

Posted by: Cloudbuster Jan 7 2006, 10:54 AM

QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Jan 6 2006, 10:03 PM)
how come all the good engine building parties are so far away

You could come over to my house, if'n you really want to. I've started on my 2316 kit.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 7 2006, 10:57 AM

QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Jan 7 2006, 08:44 AM)

what is teh virdict?

Too early here to drive over to the shop/garage! I'm just drinking my morning coffee

I am sure Blair isn't up yet as he went out last night with the GF......

If you are inviting me down and have a room to stay in San Diego, I'm there!

too much rain up here lately.

Posted by: TeamAxisRacing Jan 7 2006, 03:52 PM

ugh i just got up at 1pmwe;ll see what happens

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 7 2006, 03:53 PM

Bring my tools by!!!!
ohyeah, I have the keys, dude.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jan 7 2006, 04:08 PM

Call me again. I was out at 5am this morning on a exotic car fun run. I'm back at the shop.

Is the oil pump in it? If it is.. one of the bolt heads is hitting the oil pump.

B

Posted by: KenH Jan 7 2006, 04:13 PM

Hey B - Pick another one - Ken already got that one.

Ken

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 7 2006, 04:16 PM

I just saw Blair and he is going out to the shop.
No, the effin oil pump isn't in yet!

He is going to try putting the flywheel on now with some shims to see if that corrects the problem. Maybe the cam gear has a pos stuck on it......

Posted by: TeamAxisRacing Jan 7 2006, 08:40 PM

heres a pic of the block..

i took the case apart today after talking to brad on the phone. put it all back together and torqued and it works fine now. i didnt see any problem definitly wierd stuff

Attached image(s)

Posted by: TeamAxisRacing Jan 7 2006, 08:42 PM

durka durka

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Posted by: TeamAxisRacing Jan 7 2006, 08:43 PM

shocked[1].gif

Attached image(s)

Posted by: DNHunt Jan 7 2006, 08:54 PM

You guys coming down for the FI tomorrow? If so I'll dig through the stuff.

Rides are available.

Dave

Posted by: TeamAxisRacing Jan 8 2006, 12:13 AM

yeah dave i will be trying to..... ill pm you here in a sec rides available alrighty!!

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 8 2006, 12:19 AM

QUOTE (TeamAxisRacing @ Jan 7 2006, 06:43 PM)
shocked[1].gif

How the motor get so clean? damn, you have been polishing everytime since you had to trial assemble it 5 times?

Did you find the shims as it looks like the flywheel is on.

Gawd, I ate too much again...two effin parties in one night.

Oh, DimSum at 11AM at Jade Garden w/ Joe and others.

Posted by: TeamAxisRacing Jan 8 2006, 12:25 AM

dim sum score! i found the shim pack but that was trial fit. i have to go buy the correct sized flywheel bolts at hardwicks and go to daves and hangout with courtney and watch the giants game and work on my motor.... whew tommarow looks like + = yellowsleep[1].gif

Posted by: V6914 Jan 8 2006, 12:27 AM

QUOTE (TeamAxisRacing @ Jan 7 2006, 06:40 PM)
heres a pic of the block..

i took the case apart today after talking to brad on the phone. put it all back together and torqued and it works fine now. i didnt see any problem definitly wierd stuff

Assembly Gremlins

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 8 2006, 12:30 AM

There is a bag of brand new flywheel bolts on the shelf.......I doubt Hardwicks has the special bolts.

Posted by: cgnj Jan 8 2006, 01:30 AM

QUOTE
put the flywheel on with the 3 shims, no o-ring, no rear seal. see if it turns freely with the flywheel in place.
without the flywheel in place, teh crank will move fore and aft causing it to bind slightly

Not a gremlin, cam locking up on drive gear because of endplay. It wants to hop out if the crank is moving.

Carlos

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 9 2006, 09:07 AM

QUOTE
hello i was wondering if some of you engine builder guru's have some ideas what can be wrong with my 1.7liter W code motor i tryed calling brad roberts and jake raby but both didnt answer

Thats because I'm no longer available by phone............

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 9 2006, 09:18 AM

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jan 9 2006, 07:07 AM)

QUOTE
hello i was wondering if some of you engine builder guru's have some ideas what can be wrong with my 1.7liter W code motor i tryed calling brad roberts and jake raby but both didnt answer

Thats because I'm no longer available by phone............

I wondered Jake.......I didn't get the memo.

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 9 2006, 09:43 AM

I had to do something... One day 3 weeks ago the phone rang 77 times.

It's pretty obvious that I need a PR person, boy do I feel sorry for that bastard!

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 9 2006, 10:18 AM

On the flip side, she could have a nice southern accent to smooth over problems.........