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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ welding

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 11:00 AM

I am tring to find out which is the best choice for teener reapair but also being used for building a rotiss for doing the repair work ..

any thoughts ... what are the pros and cons of each type?

Posted by: 914GT Jan 19 2006, 11:07 AM

This http://metalshapers.org/101/jkelly/index.html by John Kelly is a good place to start.

Posted by: flyloki Jan 19 2006, 11:10 AM

If you have an extra 2 grand and time to learn a TIG is the best.

If just rotisserie and general stuff I'd get a millermatic 135.

Three or four of my buddies have nice Migs that I can use so I'm getting this gas rig here http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/

If it works half as good in the videos I'm a be stoked.

Posted by: Rand Jan 19 2006, 11:50 AM

Yup. Mig is great, and easy. The way to go for what you're doing.

TIG is ultimate. It costs more and is more difficult to learn, but you can do some beautiful welds on different metals (aluminum, chromoly, etc.)

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 12:04 PM

that little torch thing is cool -- I wonder the cost and availablity of the gases ?

Posted by: seanery Jan 19 2006, 12:09 PM

I would second the Millermatic 135.

I love TIG, but MIG is much more affordable.

Posted by: McMark Jan 19 2006, 12:14 PM

I recommend MIG.

TIG is not only a lot more expensive but working the foot pedal while laying upside down is not easy. I guess if you have a rotisserie it's no problem.

MIG is much easier to learn and much easier to use on a day to day basis.

Posted by: Porcharu Jan 19 2006, 01:05 PM

QUOTE (flyloki @ Jan 19 2006, 09:10 AM)
If you have an extra 2 grand and time to learn a TIG is the best.

If just rotisserie and general stuff I'd get a millermatic 135.

Three or four of my buddies have nice Migs that I can use so I'm getting this gas rig here http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/

If it works half as good in the videos I'm a be stoked.

I would highly recommend a good MIG setup I love my Millermatic 185 and I use it all the time and would not be without it.
I have one of those cut like plasma setups - it's OK but if I was going to do it again (and I am) I would just get a good "aircraft sized" oxy acet welding outfit. Don't get something like a Journeyman high end welding outfit, they are made for welding buildings and ships together and don't work well at all for thin stuff like our cars. Take a look here http://www.tinmantech.com/html/meco_midget_torch.php

Posted by: Crazyhippy Jan 19 2006, 01:14 PM

I too recomend the MIg... but learn how to Tig, or Oxy Acet weld. It will make you understand what is going on 10x better.

BJH

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 19 2006, 01:15 PM

For teener welding a MIG with gas is by far the best to use and fairly cheap. Anyone with a little practice can weld lite gauge sheetmetal.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jan 19 2006, 01:16 PM

MIG is much easier and cheaper, if you graduate to TIG later... that's cool too!

stick is only good for heavy stuff... and a strong ass MIG can do that and make pretty welds every time

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 01:55 PM

so how do you know if you should use co2 or agron or the mixed gas

Posted by: seanery Jan 19 2006, 02:11 PM

the easy way is to ask the folks you get your gas from. Tell 'em what your doing and they'll suggest the right gas.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 19 2006, 03:46 PM

QUOTE (sk8kat1 @ Jan 19 2006, 12:55 PM)
so how do you know if you should use co2 or agron or the mixed gas

believe it or not, they sell books on the subject at Home Depot or Amazon.com or other places designed for newbies....it wouldn't hurt to spend $12 and learn something ......I have many text books on welding from school....I use the cheap $12 pamplet/book I bought from Home Depot more often mostly for a quick referance.......

MIG is pretty affordable (low range start in the few hundred bucks and of course goes up) and can do a lot of different jobs, last time I bought argon/CO2 mix for it I think it was about $40....the gas is not too expenisive unless you do a bone head move like I've done and leave it on over night and return to an empty tank the next morning

TIG is very expensive and usually for more precise jobs (start at about 1200 bucks and then you need accessories)

Stick welding is kinda dirty (lots of splatters), MIG is usually a little nicer with the weld qualities and TIG can produce show qaulity welds that you'd like to brag about

Posted by: stock93 Jan 19 2006, 03:52 PM

If you buy a mig, I'd go with a 170 minimum. Even though most everything on our cars is sheet you will find other things to weld once you have the setup. I have a 130 mig myself and wish I had bought one with more power. I have maxed it out on several occasions. I've even bused out the old stick welder on occasion because my mig just doesn't have enough. If you're absolutely sure sheet metal work is all you're ever going to do then the 135 is fine. I would say you probably wouldn't have any problem building a rotisserie with it but probably anything thicker and you will be wanting a larger one.

John

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 04:53 PM

170 huh ... if you go that big does that mean you need to up grade the electrical service ? or at what point is that nessisarry?

Posted by: Rand Jan 19 2006, 04:58 PM

How thick of metal do you want to weld?

If 914 sheet metal, then a 110 powered unit will do fine.

If you want to weld 1/4" plate, then you need 220 power.

If you have 220 power and can afford a 220 welder, go that route because you'll have more options in the future.

If you are on a budget and mostly need to weld sheet metal (18 gauge, 14 gauge....) then you could get by with a cheap 110v gasless flux-core setup.

Flux-core is cheap and simple and easy and works great.... just spatters and makes dirtier welds than a nicer MIG unit with gas. But if you get a good quality weld it will be plenty strong and you can clean it up.

How thick do you need to weld?
What is your budget?

Posted by: Mueller Jan 19 2006, 04:58 PM

QUOTE (sk8kat1 @ Jan 19 2006, 03:53 PM)
170 huh ... if you go that big does that mean you need to up grade the electrical service ? or at what point is that nessisarry?

depends on the max amperage of the welder....higher amperage, the closer to the outlet you need to be or use thicker and higher rated extension cords.....if you can easily access your 220v clothes drier or A/C outlet or have a 220v outlet in your garage, the 220v welder offers a few advantages (more effiecient and in theory use less electricity for lower bills)

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 06:56 PM

mostly biuld a rotiss .. 914 sheet metal .. the engman long support( 16 ga) .... prob let my friends use for there cars -- 1948 chevy truck and a 1946 pontiac

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 06:59 PM

oh and the 4-600 range --

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 06:59 PM

is buying used welders a bad idea?

Posted by: Rand Jan 19 2006, 07:06 PM

I picked up a welder at a garage sale for $15!!! Works great, but not as nice as a new Miller.

Buying used isn't a good or bad idea.... it all depends on the machine and the deal. I would test it before I hauled it home.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jan 19 2006, 07:27 PM

if you get a good machine, used is fine... problem is, they don't lose much cost until they are wor the F out... I got lucky and got mine from a guy who barely used MIG, he preferred TIG and had the TIG expertise, but only ever use fluxcore MIG... which is the butt-ugliest weld you can make... 4-600 welder you can get a decent 220 one, and I recommend 220... miller, lincoln or Hobart(a miller by another name)... get one with infinate speed and voltage adjustments, or at a minimum infinate speed... you'd be fine with your immediate projects with a 110(max. 1/8" thick), but later, you'll want the 220...

Posted by: Mr.C Jan 19 2006, 08:53 PM

I just bought a lincoln 175 from Lowes $595. I have only used the flux core part of it so far. This was the first time I have used the flux core, but after getting the hang of it I kinda like it. It's great for the messy jobs that you don't see or don't care about and a spool from harbor freight is only $15 bucks.

Posted by: andys Jan 19 2006, 09:20 PM

Though TIG produces a very nice result, it is very sensitive to contamination or residue on the metal. Unlike a MIG, you cannot simply burn through paint, primer, oxides, etc. while welding. Parts must be very clean and oxide free. Welding on bodywork and seams (and at odd difficult to get at angles), I prefer the MIG, but I don't have one; only got a TIG.....got pretty good at operating the pedal with my knee though.

Andy

Posted by: bmunday Jan 19 2006, 09:29 PM

There is some great information here I was looking for some information a few weeks ago,and regadless of what I do this has been very helpful.

Thanks

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 09:42 PM

I have no 220 out lets in my house even for the washer it looks just like any other grouned 3 prong outlet ...

I wonder how expensive it is to have a 220 outlet run to my garage ?

Posted by: sk8kat1 Jan 19 2006, 09:44 PM

oh and lincoln has freakin 3 different 135 and 3 different 175 welders on their web site -- this is getting a bit confusing

so many to choose from

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 19 2006, 09:53 PM

QUOTE (sk8kat1 @ Jan 19 2006, 10:44 PM)
oh and lincoln has freakin 3 different 135 and 3 different 175 welders on their web site -- this is getting a bit confusing

so many to choose from

I have this one and it works great. Got it for about $600 at lowes. http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=7083

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jan 19 2006, 10:04 PM

putting in a 220v outlet is not hard... takes a couple hours... if you can weld you can put in a 220 plug... have faith

Posted by: Pinepig Jan 19 2006, 10:47 PM

I have a MIG, TIG, ARC, Oxy,act and a plasma cutter.

If I don't care what it looks like and I want it done now I grab the MIG, if it has to be pretty I use the TIG. The ARC hasn't come out of the corner in over 10 years. The plasma cutter makes cutting sheet metal a dream ( handy yes, needed, well not really ).

If I had to purchase just one it would be a MIG, one with gas and at least 170 amps. Lincoln or Miller, I have used both and they are pretty much interchangable. Buy whatever they sell local to you so you can get parts easy.