alright, time to start a conversion thread. i picked up the engine a month ago and started with the prepping of the tub today.
didn't get too much stuff done, oh well, babysteps ...
the ToDo-List (striked-out items are done!):
============================================
i'm going to overhaul the suspension, mount a front oil cooler with fan(s), fix a few spots on the tub the PO had hacked together, add racing seats and 5-point harness, install the 944 axles, the 911 eBrake, the new trailing arms, add a rear sway bar, Mueller roller bearings, new 250lbs springs on adjustable perches, fix the front sway bar, install new rear window, fix the gastank (correctly this time), replace the plastic fuel lines, get a trick porsche motorsports setup for my oiltank, add a vent to the front hood, redo the rear spoiler (ducktail), 100mm wheel studs all around, throw in the 3.6L motor and when all that is done, i'm going to give her a one of a kind paintjob!oh, and i'm still playing with the idea to have her put on a celette bench to make sure she's straight ...
============================================
ETA: soon enough to run a full season for 2006 2007 !!!
UPDATE: current todo list can be found HERE: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=44700&st=180#entry893103
the motor, 3.6L '95 993 Twin Plug
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the guys posing when i picked it up at JWE ...
thanks for all the help!
Dave Darling, Mike Pickels and Bill Pickering ...
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now for the prep work, the car has 911 brakes on all 4 corners, out of a '85 carrera.
i did rebuild the calipers about 6 month ago and noticed that the front rotors were pretty chewed up, so i got some new rotors that i put in today.
i also got longer wheel studs so i could run some spacers for my street wheels. i needed an extra 1 1/4" and i *thought* i would be fine with 75mm studs ...
well, turns out, that wasn't enough.
i'll be ordering 100mm studs for the front pretty soon. with the 75mm studs, i could only add about 3/4" of spacer before i ran out of thread, which is 1/2" short of my goal ...
here are the pics (at McMarks shop in napa) ....
old rotors and studs:
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75mm studs (these will be for sale shortly!):
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with the new rotor, bling bling ...
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mounted with the 3/4" spacer:
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not enough thread left for another 1/2" spacer
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still way too much space between the tire and the fender, at least 1/2" ...
btw. this is for the street wheels. the track wheels, 9" GoodYear R250 Schlicks, fit perfectly with just a 1/4" spacer!
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and here's trekkor "Butt" welding his front fender ...
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i'll be back @ marks shop tomorrow to put in the rear spings and, if there's enough time, weld in the brackets for the rear sway bar and get it hooked up ...
enough for today,
Andy
Are you talking about a gas tank? Talk to me tomorrow about that.
Oh, and let's paint your wheel wells black. No more orange highlights.
QUOTE (McMark @ Jan 21 2006, 08:37 PM) |
Are you talking about a gas tank? Talk to me tomorrow about that. Oh, and let's paint your wheel wells black. No more orange highlights. |
:PERMAGRIN: Joe
This will be a fun ride.
I like what you are doing!
Nice thread title, too. Catchy
KT
Did the engine come with the dual 6 distributer set up with the vee belt running one of them, or did it come with an actual 12 spark distributer?
Just curious.
QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 21 2006, 11:08 PM) |
Did the engine come with the dual 6 distributer set up with the vee belt running one of them, or did it come with an actual 12 spark distributer? |
QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jan 21 2006, 08:20 PM) |
the motor, 3.6L '95 993 Twin Plug |
QUOTE (Scott Carlberg @ Jan 22 2006, 12:14 AM) |
Vehicle: 1995 Porsche 911 Carrera coupe Standard Engine: 3.6L Horsepower: 270 Torque (lb-ft) 243 |
coated headers and SS exhaust can be seen here:
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Interesting, in 1996, the 3.6L is Rated at 282hp (12+) and 250tq (7+)
NOT that I'd be complaining!
Ya lucky bast@rd
QUOTE |
get a trick porsche motorsports setup for my oiltank |
You are gonna LOVE that engine in a 914!!! Of course you know you coulda just built a big four! Just ask Trekkor!!
Andy,
I'm excited for you and jealous all at the same time!
QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jan 22 2006, 04:29 AM) | ||
What's that??? |
QUOTE (Scott Carlberg @ Jan 22 2006, 01:35 AM) |
Interesting, in 1996, the 3.6L is Rated at 282hp (12+) and 250tq (7+) NOT that I'd be complaining! |
varioram no gonna fit? (so I hear)
QUOTE (Eric Taylor @ Jan 22 2006, 10:00 AM) | ||
That was because of the varioram, right?. Eric |
QUOTE |
varioram AND different chip programming ... Andy |
You better get to work! ( I always wanted to say that )
GGR#1 on March 11th and
Zone a/x #1 are fast approaching...April 1st & 2nd.
http://www.pca-ggr.org/calendar.cgi?page=autocross
Go for it!
KT
QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 22 2006, 11:14 AM) |
You better get to work! ( I always wanted to say that ) |
underside, prepped for mounting bracket:
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trunk support plate welded in:
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Hey Trek, if Andy gets a car that's fast enough, he may be able to keep up with you
mounting bracket welded in:
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McMark welding ...
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Seriously, that is a winner!
after metal ready and primer ...
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i also replaced my old 180lbs progressive springs with new 250lbs springs on threaded collars.
i'm running bilstein shocks ...
here's the old 180lbs springs, man those are LOOOOOONG:
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and here's the new stuff, bling bling ...
250lbs springs on threaded collars, adjustable perches:
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DAMN Andy, er, SirAndy,
planning on going to the TRACK sometime soon??
we had some fitting problems on the bilstein shocks. the problem was that the top aluminum spring plate is obviously designed to work with koni shocks.
the center hole for the shockshaft was too small and the top of the plate has a ~1/8 "hump" that will result in not enough thread to secure the nut on top if you use the stock rubber pieces.
we found a workable solution by cutting off about 1/8 of the top mounting piece that is usually screwed on the shaft and holds the lower rubber spacer.
then, we took off the same amount (~1/8) off the top rubber and voila! we got enough thread to fasten the top nut!
here is mark honing out the center hole, using his "special precision" shop equipment:
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this shows how much of the top rubber needs to be cut off:
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here you can see the part of the top mounting piece that still needs to be cut off to be level with the rubber:
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and done (sans the top rubber):
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perfect fit! (with new sway bar hooked up):
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Screw all that! Let's see it go!!!!
M
artsy shot of mark posing ...
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Ok, that'll do.
M
last for today, butt shot after adjusting the ride height ...
5" in the front, from bottom edge of floor pan
5 1/2" in the rear, from bottom edge of floor pan
trekkor took a quick ride around the block with me, the 250lbs springs feel great!
better actually than my old 180lbs.
i'm happy!
Andy
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QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 22 2006, 08:44 PM) |
Hey Trek, if Andy gets a car that's fast enough, he may be able to keep up with you |
Cool!
some more babysteps today ...
mark and i scratched our heads long and hard (mine was easier cuz i don't have nearly as much hair as he does) and we came up with a concept for the front mounted oil cooler and the "out the hood" venting of the hot air ...
first, i'd like to mention again that i "hate", yes hate, the idea of dumping any significant amount of additional air under the car.
i don't care if that's how the factory did it. their solution was quick & dirty as they were planning on racing the GTs in '70. they obviously did what got them results quick and without too much work.
additional air under the car *will* create additional lift, especially at higher speeds.
soooooo, i'm opting for a "out the top" solution.
but i also hate those big ass holes in the hood, so i'm going for a more stealth approach.
louvers!
here's a vinyl mockup of where the louvers will be, once painted in body color, they'll be hardly noticeable, but *very* effective!
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one more ...
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we also made a cardboard mockup of the oil-cooler and used a small metal rod to mock up the curvature of the air-channel (see green arrows) ...
it'll be a nice and smooth curvature and should give me a good airflow ...
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hopefully, by next weekend, i'll have the cooler and the aluminium panels for the channel/shroud ...
cutting the hood will be fun!
i have similat bilsein coilover issues. looks like you sorted it out prtty well.
rock!
I just remembered I promised to measure that front x-member
It's 81,5 cm
Been thinking about louvres too...
I like this look:
Sure would looks nicer than a big-ass-gaping-hole
here's a link to a HUGE jpg (1:1 scale) of the shroud/channel outline ...
i'm going to clean this up, run it through adobe streamline and make it a vector graphic EPS.
then, i'll have the shroud lasercut out of aluminum sheet metal ...
WARNING, HUGE IMAGE (5689 x 7564 pixel, 300 dpi) ...
http://www.914world.com/pix/mycar/Oil%20Cooler%20Shroud%20Outline%20small.jpg
Andy
Have a real hot rod guy do your louvres, they know how to do them right.
QUOTE (seanery @ Jan 28 2006, 10:42 PM) |
Have a real hot rod guy do your louvres, they know how to do them right. |
Andy,
CONGRATS!
more "babysteps" ...
got off to a slow start, didn't get to marks until noon-ish.
so i decided to just cut out the new front support brackets. mine are shot (dumb PO ) and i got two replacements from John at EASY.
of course he didn't drill out the spotwelds, he just cut the frontend around the pieces i needed,
so i had to drill out all the spotwelds to separate the bracket from the junk ...
here's a before picture (yellow! ):
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took like 2 hours to get the two sides separated ...
well, with some BS and coffee breaks included ...
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mark convinced me those would be much nicer all cleaned up, so we started up the bead-blaster box ...
turned out really nice, except, it takes FOREVER ...
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and then some primer, so they don't turn into a heap of rust by next weekend.
by the time the blasting was done, it was 6pm. time to call it a day.
i didn't get any of the other parts that i had planned on working with today, so this is going to be a short weekend.
hopefully more progress next week. including welding those babies in place ...
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time for some
Andy
tell us about your hood louvers.
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 4 2006, 09:09 PM) |
tell us about your hood louvers. |
curious in your method...
cut 3x, fold 2x.....
seems like the cut once and louver punch is easier
cant wait to see it...
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 4 2006, 09:13 PM) |
cut 3x, fold 2x..... |
I almost popped by...
KT
QUOTE (trekkor @ Feb 4 2006, 09:31 PM) |
I almost popped by... |
I like the louver idea, but your air funnel looks big enough for a radiator on a V8 car. If you tilt the oil cooler forward a bit then you could have the funnel match the hood line much more closely and recoup more front trunk space. Just a thought, maybe it's just how it looks in the picture, I wasn't there, blah blah blah
Mark, congrats on getting Andy to clean his parts
ok, here's a small JPG of the oil-cooler shroud lineart ...
the original is a Adobe Illustrator EPS in 1:1 size that Mark will use on his plotter to cut a template.
this should be fun ...
Andy
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have you thought about making the top / exit wider than the intake?
maybe your doing that in another dimension (Z)
wider louvers 3d..... or deeper in ths 2d plane
Andy,
I may be able to cut your shroud for you if you can supply material. Send me the file when you are ready.
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 7 2006, 04:07 PM) |
have you thought about making the top / exit wider than the intake? |
QUOTE (ppickerell @ Feb 7 2006, 04:16 PM) |
I may be able to cut your shroud for you if you can supply material. Send me the file when you are ready. |
Has anyone thought about taking the air out via the front wheel wells? Rather than cutting out so much of the wheel wells like is done on most V8 conversions, what about cutting out just enough material out of both sides down low, in line with the cooler, and then build a shroud on the back side of the cooler to "split" the air to either wheel well? This way, you would only lose the bottom 4-5" of the front trunk (and not all of that). You wouldn't be putting any more air under the car, just out the front wheel wells.
Anybody tried this?
QUOTE (db9146 @ Feb 7 2006, 06:50 PM) |
You wouldn't be putting any more air under the car, just out the front wheel wells. |
I absolutely agree about dumping air under car, when it isn´t necessary.
I have installed hood louvers on mine. I simply let the air enter into front trunk area, the rear part with tank seals. Since the louvers are in a low pressure area, the air is practically sucked out. I have small deflector at the front edge. I have a 2.8 that is run pretty hard at DE days, always 180-190 drgrees.
Seems like the obvious, best approach to me.
more babysteps but no pictures today ...
got the front swaybar fixed. cut off the old mounting tabs and welded in the new ones.
added the new (shorter) droplinks and verfied that my chassis is bend.
now i will *need* to put it on a celette bench for sure ...
i also added the 100mm wheel studs to the front and added 2 3/4" spacers on each side. fills out the wheelwell nicely now, can barely squeeze a finger between the tire and the flare.
slow, but progress. plus, after some brainstorming (and pizza! ) McMark is contemplating to get himself a complete alignment setup in his shop. corner balancing and precision alignment ... can't wait ...
tired and thirsty Andy
Andy what are you doing to the gear box? is it a 901? are you changeing the ratios?
QUOTE (pete-stevers @ Feb 18 2006, 10:19 PM) |
Andy what are you doing to the gear box? is it a 901? are you changeing the ratios? |
Nice progress
Looks like you are putting all that knowledge to good use..
and Andy I am sure you had some good ideas too
I can't wait to see it done and getting done.
here's why my project has been kind of on hold for the last few weeks ...
pondering a few options ...
http://www.sirandy.com/projects/cars/tub.asp
Andy
That sucks Andy
Andy, I gotta ask. When did you find out that your car had been in an accident? I ask because I would hate for me or anyone else to suffer the same fate. Did you know about any of this when you bought the car?
QUOTE (Leo Imperial @ Apr 9 2006, 04:07 PM) |
Andy, I gotta ask. When did you find out that your car had been in an accident? I ask because I would hate for me or anyone else to suffer the same fate. Did you know about any of this when you bought the car? |
Does the car track funny?
i was following you while you were driving and nothing looked crazy.
Does it pull side to side or vibrate?
I say finish the conversion.
KT
QUOTE (SirAndy @ Apr 9 2006, 04:06 PM) |
pondering a few options ... |
That's worse than I thought Andy.
man... that definatly sucks!
what ya gonna do about it?
Congrates, Andy. A very nice,, worthwhile project. It makes me jealous!!! I have one question: can a 996 engine be used in the conversion and do the inner suspension tabs have to be changed, moved, etc.; or, a complete new suspension needed.
I am finding it hard to locate a good used 3.0 or 3.6 engine for my conversion. I am considering looking at the 3.6 engine series.
Thanks,
Steve Hurt
shoguneagle@yahoo.com
steve, my engine is from a '95 993, dunno about a 996 engine ...
this upcoming weeked will be spent un-bending and de-twisting the car on a celette bench!
that'll be a major step towards getting the car ready for the big motor ...
Andy
now that the car is straight again, it was time to get back to the motor conversion task ...
read more about the un-twisting of the tub on the celette bench here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=50809&st=40
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=52631&hl=celette
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=52098&hl=celette
Andy
cutting holes for the oil lines for the front mounted cooler ...
yes, that's SAND from the blasting 3 years ago that you see in the pics ...
Andy
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and the cutout in the 916 bumper for the air inlet ... it's just a rough cut for now as i'm still waiting for some parts, including the actual cooler ...
in the second pic, you can see the exit holes for the lines where they come through from the pass. compartement ...
Andy
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still waiting for a box of nice and shiny new parts, this is what *should* be here by next weekend ...
- 30 feet of oil-lines
- mocal H-style thermostat
- mocal remote oil filter console
- fluidyne oil cooler
- porsche motorsports oil tank
- rich johnson motor mount
that should keep me busy for a day or two ...
Andy
Lookin good
what did you decide on routing your oillines?
I don't like running the lines going through the passenger compartment (with the possibility of turning the car into a frying pan)
And I'm definately NOT going to cut holes in the outer longs (like on the factory GT's)
Andyman, cool front end man. I have a thing for the GT front end and now covet those chubby fenders. I will deny the evil call of the saws all, no matter how much you tempt me with these porno pics and try to have at leasest one teaner to drive and another to away.
If it weren't sexy, it woulden't be addicting and that 3.6 tickle spot is just evil.
Roughly $280.
Lines $150
Thermostat $100
Remote Filter $30
here is the most interesting part
So, do you two have any more detail on that tank, yet? I'm leaning heavily towards the DWD tank and OEM-style oil lines (I think the DWD only has the OEM metric fittings), and having someone weld up the feed pipe under the oil cooler for the 30mm fitting.
Thanks mark, I need to know how much to budget for my front oil cooler install.
James, what's your timeline? It's on order right now and so it should be in very soon and you can come see it in person. It should be a really slick setup for conversions.
I'm hoping to gather all the parts necessary by the end of the summer, so I'm not in a big hurry, just wondering.
gonna use headers? why not go thru the heater tubes?
should be fine your way too... just make a cool metal cover for them
more stuff got done ...
but first, let me show you one more reason why i think sandblasting your car is not a good idea:
rear wheelbearing, made a nice crunchy noise when turned by hand
now on to some progress ...
new axles with brand new 944 CVs, on top is one of the old stock axles, on the bottom is the new axles, using early 911 hubs (~69-7?), later 911 stub axles (~75-7?), new 944 CVs, modified 914 axle shafts and later 911 output flanges (~75-7?).
and installed with the new (unbend) trailing arms, new koni adjustable shocks and mueller roller bearings. perfect fit, except i'll need a spacer for my big vented carrera rotors ...
Andy
front oilcooler testfitting ...
first, the bottom channel with the welded tabs to hold it in place:
next, the frame the cooler is going to seal against in the front:
and finally, the first test fitting of the cooler, worked out very nicely:
and special thanks to McMark for all the help!
Andy
and as a added bonus, here's another pic from one of the oil-line passages ...
gawd, i *hate* sandblasting ...
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Very nice!
That's a gud lookin' oil cooler.....to gud for a 914.
You're supposed to have one of them cheesey black ones on a 914.
Hummm......I may have offended some one with a cheesey black cooler. It don't count as I'm in shock from trying to chop my finger off.......I'll be back to my normal inoffensive self in a day or 2.
Lookin good Andy! Now, That's what I am talkin about!
Dan
looks great, andy. always good to see progress on your car.
Progress...Yay!!
KT
SirAndy, I am new here, great project and finish, you have gone to where I wish I could go.. very nice, looking forward to a convertion myself, need all to do all, extra parts I will work for..
great car...
test fitting the motor, ass way up in the air ...
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Andy, I think you should make that first pic the 914club image of the month (best Christmas present ever!).
we made a "custom" 993 motor lift so we could balance the motor on a floorjack. worked great!
those will be available in the "914 Resources, Parts and Products" section shortly. $499 plus shipping.
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first testfit to find the best location for the bulkhead motor mount ...
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cleaning the area for welding ...
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voila!
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and last pic, with the intake mounted ...
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the motor will have to come out one more time, but next we're going to hook up all the oil-lines, engine harness, fuel pump etc. get it all good to go, then drop the engine one more time to clean up and respray the engine bay, clean up the motor and tranny and that should be the end of it ...
can't wait to drive her ...
Andy
Aaaah... WOW?
Celebration!!
It's going to be nice.
KT
I'm surprised and pleased by how well the lift plate worked. Making the motor in and out was EASY. Much easier than I expected. We're on a really good track to make the birthday deadline. The oil cooler venting won't be 100% done, but it'll be fine for street driving.
It's nice to make progress!
Lookin' good!
Are the cases the same from late 83-98? Could one use that balance all of the late types of enignes on something like that?
well, what do you know ... i actually got almost a full day of working on the car today.
if mark hadn't forgotten the code for his own garage, i could have gotten even more done ...
turns out, it was actually good to have stepped back from the car for a while.
i'm freshly motivated and at the end of the day, it looked like we're pretty close to get her fired up for the first time.
i'll be putting in two more full days this upcoming week.
can't wait to drive her around the block!
Andy
If you've got a welder, why bother making extra holes in the body. Set it on the lip, center it and ZAP!
Michelko, I was considering the same thing, plus I have lost the frickin' inventory list which details the lengths of the bolts to buy. So is it necessary to weld as much around the perimeter? I remember in RJ instructions only a couple of inches long in 2 places are req. ?
Here is an part of the mounting instruction.
Hardware Kit (Optional)
- Two 911 engine mounts.
- Four 8mm X 20mm bolts with spring washers (8) and nylock inserted lock nuts (4).
- Two 911 engine mount safety washers (2.5 inch OD, 13mm ID).
- Two 12mm X 100mm sport mount bolts with two 12mm bottom washers (12mm ID, 25mm OD), two bottom lock washers and two 12mm nylock inserted lock nuts.
- Two 12mm X 60mm bulkhead support mounting bolts with 12mm spring washers (4) and two nylock inserted lock nuts.
- Two 18mm OD, 12mm ID X 1” long crush prevention sleeves.
- Two 12mm X 40mm bulkhead support mounting bolts with 12mm spring washers (4) and two nylock inserted lock nuts.
Thanks michelko, I'm going to bolt + weld. I'd just like to have belt & braces + my welder is only 130amp and would struggle at anything above 3mm. I reckon by 'dipping' into the bulkhead + the steel plate I could weld it very solidly -just would have this nagging doubt.
Another thing I noticed was you also have had to grind a bit off the mount to clear the firewall shift linkage flange, have the tail shift cars had to do this?
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To repeat what Andy said, that mount is universal and doesn't require griding. Drop it in place and weld it.
Maybe I have an early version -I had to grind mine. Not a big deal, but something that could do with amending
another full day of car work. well, sort of. if McMark hadn't called me around 10am and woke me up, i would have slept all day ...
i went to a show last night and got home around 5:30am ...
anyways, here are a few pics from today. we'll be putting in another full day tomorrow ...
fixing the headlight supports. needs to be done before we build the oil-cooler shroud because once that is in, you won't be able to access that area anymore.
all cleaned up and in primer:
the replacement supports, painted with guards red touchup paint:
all nice new paint and someone's ugly head:
antenna hole patch, note the layers of bondo & paint. we counted 6 coats of bondo/primer/paint!
leaky rear window removed, needs some cleanup before the new window goes in. the PO had used RTV ...
cracked windshield removed, the new one will be installed this weekend:
we decided to mount the FI brain for the 3.6L in the front of the car, under the pass. side dash.
we cut a hole in the firewall and used the stock 993 engine harness and grommets. the wires will run on top of the center tunnel, but hidded under a custom tray and the console, the brain will be mounted flush under the passanger side dash.
here are a few pics from the test-fitting ...
harness going through the firewall:
running on top of the center tunnel:
and the brain under the dashboard. the final mounting will be higher and out of the way:
and the view from the engine side of things:
more pics tomorrow ...
Vielen Dank, Herr McMark!
Andy
Andy, very cool. I like the brain mount.
Glad to see you and Mark getting near firing her up....
looks great.
Good job, Andy
I like this kind of work.
more pics ...
the money shot:
fixing the rollcage. removed old tabs and welded in new ones:
rear window channel primed and painted, ready for the new window:
windshield channel cleaned, primed and painted. the new windshield is supposed to be delievered on sunday:
Andy
Andy-
It looks like you have the 911 dash. Can we see some pics of that, where did you get the carbon fiber dash from?
we came up with something special for mounting the oil thermostat.
first, we were planning on just running the oil lines through the rear firewall and mount the thermostat upfront.
but no matter how we were looking at it, the routing through the firewall (it's double-walled down low) just did not look clean.
so we thought about adding some sort of hard tubing between the double wall and have permanent fittings on each side.
well, looking at the thermostat, we already had what we wanted, so all we needed was to come up with an idea on how to mount it.
McMark made a steel box while i was cutting the tub. the box is just big enough to hold the thermostat.
the box will be welded into the tub and one side has a cover. the thermostat slides inside and the end-cover holds it firmly in place when attached.
the box is at an 45 deg. angle, which allows us to use 45 deg. fittings on each side which will have the lines run parallel to the longs towards the front and parallel to the firewall in the back.
the holes:
the box:
the thermostat in the box:
test fitting the assembly. the box will be seamwelded into the tub:
Andy
so,
from what I can tell, you have no 914 to drive this year....yet.
and then you will have two 914/6...one will be factory CW and one will be OMG fast.
Rich
Great work Andy! Looks like it is turning out very nice. That car is going to be wicked fast.
the mufflers arrived!
many, many thanks to dan callicott from http://www.5five5.com/.
i owe you a few nice cold brewskies ...
me likes shiny parts ...
Andy
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Andy - I love the way that thermostat is going to give you a clean look. I was wondering how the thermostat works though. Is is regulated by the temperature of the oil or the air out side it? I guess the way you did it would make me think oil, but I'm not sure
Eric
Looks like you're making good progress. Congrats and thanks for sharing
Thanks for the reply andy- I was thinking about the engine warmth the same way you were, but I also had seen most of them mounted in the front trunk. Good to know, to me it would make sense to mount it closer to the enginge for optimal oil cooling too.
Eric
moah pix ...
got the thermostat box all welded in and primed and painted:
test fitting of the mufflers:
more progress tomorrow ... time for a few brewskies ...
Andy
got some more stuff done, just for the giggles, here's the current "todo" list ...
Engine Swap Related Work *
Electrical *Add fuel pump wiring. *Test fit engine wiring harness. *Mount ECU. *
Oil *
Fabricate oil cooler exit ducting. *Weld in oil cooler inlet floor. *Mount oil thermostat. *
Fuel *Hook up fuel lines. *Fabricate fuel filter mount. *Fuel pump mount mods. *
Engine *Test fit engine tin, and modify as necessary. *Install breather plugs. *Install 3.2 intake elbow. *Install cam covers. *Install throttle cable. *Install new valve cover gaskets. *Change engine oil and replace on engine filter. *Install Headers/Exhaust/Muffler *machine 914 flywheel ringear to fit 993 flywheel *clean *
Transmission *clean *fix leaking speedo angle drive *change oil (swepco) *add JWest shifter set *fabricate shiftrod *notch for flywheel sensor *
Other Work *
Weld cage. Reweld cut joints (sleeves?) *reweld Cage to targa bar attachment plates. *Seam-Weld front suspension mounts. *Alignment *Check torque on all suspension, brake, etc bolts and nuts. *Corner Balance *Install front strut inserts. *
Fabricate tray for fire extinguisher *Fix broken front trunk release cable *
Add JWest fuse block *
Add H4 100W headlights *
Add JWest Flasher upgrade *
Add Camp Euro Turnsignal kit *
Add Camp Pilot light kit *
Install 5-point harness *Mount and reseal new rear window *Install missing grommet for fuelline at the firewall *Get tank repaired, boiled, cleaned and powedercoated *Check inner CV joints bolt thread-depth *
Seam sealer for drivers side rear fender to trunk *
weld in hood shock mounts *
weld cracked door brace on drivers side *
weld in door strap support on pass. side *
install 9/11 GT flares *Install Front Windshield *Clean mounting flange *redo gauge wiring *
weld stamped floorpan holes shut *
remove air hoses behind rockers *
weld up holes for air hoses (routed behind the rockers) *
weld in antenna cable hole *Weld in front suspension support bar. *
Weld in antenna hole cover *
Clean up weld spots on firewall *
Weld in headlight bucket supports *
straighten floorpan *
weld in brackets for the new ECU harness *
Shopping List *Hose Mount Brackets *Oil Inlet O-Ring * PN: 999.707.316.40 *Six Cylinder Tach *Distributor Belt * PN: 930.602.134.00 *Distributor Vent * PN: 993.602.121.00 *Black rubber windshield frame kit - ordered 04.03 *electrical plug connectors for gauges *
set of front roller bearings *Get additional rubber grommet for main harness @ engine shelf - EASY? *
felt tank pads *
Buthyl (sp?) kit for mounting the new rear window *
Spark Plug End *
JWest Shifter - ordered 04.02 *
Fuel Filter Fittings - do we need a second filter? *
Throttle Cable End *
Muffler(s) - shipped 04/04 *
Fuel Pump Fittings *
get new windshield - ordered 04.03 *
AN Fittings - ordered 04.18 *
Race Approved Roll Bar Padding *
moah pix!
it's amazing what a bit of touchup paint can do for the looks of things!
front trunk all straight, welded, cleaned, primered and painted with rattle can guards red ...
from the front:
oil cooler installed permanently and oil-lines attached:
Andy
routing the lines inside the cabin to the rear firewall with the thermostat in the box:
Andy
3.6L FI-Brain mounted under the dash and cutout for the door for the 993 fuelpump location:
Andy
993 brain/engine harness routing. we welded in metal tabs to hold down the harness ...
Andy
and a view from the engine bay side of things. engine bay was primered and painted with rattle can guards red touchup paint.
you can see the 993 harness coming through the firewall as well as the two oil-line outlets (blocked off with red caps) on the thermostat box.
Andy
What type of oil lines are you using? Are those -16's or -12's fittings?
And the lines themselves?
Thanks
for those interested, here's a PDF with info on the oil-hose system used ...
http://www.914world.com/uploads/4281_b1.pdf (800k)
the blue hose is their "836 Hi-Temp, Heat-Resistant Hose"
operating range: up to 250 psi, 300 deg. F
burst pressure: 1000 psi
that should be plenty good ...
Andy
3/4" ID which corresponds to AN-12.
Glad to hear you're going to run a cover over the lines.....thoughts of hot oil spewing all over the inside of the car with you in it sounds too much like a Fry Daddy for me to be too comfortable w/o one.
Sort of like a Fry Andy instead!!!!
I have a 6 tach lying around...if ya need it...
Cool beans...I need to do the same...I am putting an 8 in mine..
Looking great! Curious are those lines fire resistant?
Although the burst value of the hose is very high, what kind of pressure causes the hose to blow off the barbed fitting?
while i was in there ...
the wiring for the gauges was always a bit messy (the 911 dash requires rerouting some of the original wiring) so i decided now was the time to do it right.
i got a bunch of electrical connectors and added a connector (9 pin) to each gauge.
then i extended the existing wires and added connectors as well.
now i have a quick disconnect for each gauge and plenty of wire length to take them out of the dash.
i used color coded wires where possible (out of a old harness) and put labels on all the important wires and numbered the connectors.
before:
gauges wired up:
cluster with extended wires and connectors:
now i can reinstall the dash and put in the new windshield ...
Andy
I wonder when Andy is going to finish his car? |
its not a real car...its all AI
Serial Number 64R01165
Engine tin finished and ready for powdercoating ...
I started with a set of patrick motorsports reproduction 914-6 engine tin.
I knew it would have to be modified to fit the 3.6L, but i have to say, for the price i paid, i was very disappointed with the overall quality of the tin.
- First, it arrived all bend and banged up.
- Second, the edges were just left unfinished after cutting the metal, so all pieces had razor sharp edges.
I had to file down all the tin pieces before we even got to work on making it fit ...
- Third, the fitting is poor. On one side, there's a 1/4" gap where the two pieces are supposed to butt against each other!
Patrick says that the tin will fit the 3.6L with some minor modifications. I'm not sure what they're smoking, but it must be pretty strong stuff.
We had to do some very creative sheetmetal bending, warping, hammering, welding, drilling and riveting ...
Andy (from McMark's shop)
And here's the end result:
Andy, it looks good. It's a lot of work to do it right. It took me a weekend to get mine done. You can use the 993 OEM sheetmetal in the back if you have it. A little trimming and a few tack welds. It allows the air flow to go the proper direction and not bleed out the back. Look at the bottom piece of this picture.....
got some more stuff done today ...
McMark installed the new koni (yellow) adjustable shocks while i was grinding away in the engine comp.
we also installed the transmission portion of the JWest Sideshift-Kit,
a separate thread about that can be found here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=72363
in addition, i (wet) sanded down my carbon-fiber dashboard with 500 grit to clean up some of the ugly spots that have bugged me ever since i got it from getty ...
it's going to the paintshop tomorrow to get cleaned, sprayed with a few coats of clear and polished ...
and lastly, i started with the prepp-work for the firewall portion of the JWest Sideshift-Kit. more about that later ...
i'm tired now ...
Andy
It appears Andy had a 100% failure rate on his used old shocks. The fronts LITERALLY fell apart during removal (kinda like the rears). Those puppies were not doing ANYTHING near what they should have been. Andy is gonna be ripping up the AX course at the WCR.
We are very close!
today was fuelpump day ...
the 993 fuelpump does not suck, so it needs to be mounted close to the tank and *underneath*.
first pic is the stock 993 fuel line. all i need is the fitting to the pump, so i cut off the rest and made a nice flared end.
original line:
cut off part i'm going to use:
then i mounted the pump to the fuel-door and added the hard lines and the wiring:
backside:
and finally, mounted in the car:
and from the inside of the car:
Andy
I like the fuel pump setup, Very Trick.
Looks like your car is getting right along. Any update (or narrowing down) on an ETA?
I'll bet you are pretty anxious to drive it.
tranny cleanup is DONE ...
- cleaned off all oil/grime
- new output flange seals
- new shifter console seals
- new speedo angle drive o-ring and seal
- new main shaft seal
- re-greased throwout bearing
- added JWest shifter kit
Andy
replaced the drive-belt in the twin-plug distributor. those are wear-items and should be replaced on a regular bases.
the ozon created by the spark eats away the rubber of the belt. belt failure can be catastrophic for your engine. (just ask Bill P. )
i also added a additional vent-kit for the second dizzy. cheap insurance ..
Andy
McMark taking it apart:
done, with old belt as reference:
second vent-kit installed:
i'm going for stainless fuel-lines in the engine compartment.
the 3.6L has the fuel rail inlet on the drivers side, so i needed to route around the backside.
the fuel filter will be mounted on a custom bracket on the drivers side long ...
Andy
the 911 dash turned out really nice. the picture doesn't do it much justice ...
i wet-sanded the top to get it really smooth and then brandon from altissimo put a few coats of clear on it.
it turned out schweet and the CF has a really nice 3D texture to it ...
Andy
A thing of beauty.
and the last for today, McMark powdercoated the engine tin and i put it on the motor ...
it looks VERY nice!
Andy
Wow!
more updates ...
- JWest shifter kit install, separate threads can be found here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=72363
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=72775
- freshly redone CF dash installed
- new windshield installed
- brakes bled
- fixed faulty adapter harness between the stock harness and the 3.6L engine
- reinstalled seatbelts and seats.
- worked out additional wiring issues (3.6L related)
- re-torqued all suspension components
- cleaned and sealed gas-tank
Andy
felt added to the dashframe to clean up the areas where the CF dash had to be cut for the rollcage ...
dash installed!
gauges installed!
tim, the glass guy, installing the windshield:
beau-ti-ful
i went for the black rubber trim. here you can see it taped down until the gooy stuff has dried ...
prevents them edges from peeling off later.
, plain & simple. Pushed out my front wheels on the six as you suggested. Mean looking & handles like.. well, you know .
How about an update Andy?
I saw your car in the pictures of the WCR, so we know it's done, or at least running and driveable...
I like the mounting the fuel pump in the passenger floorboard approach,,,,
today is the day. i'm gonna clean her up and drive her HOME !!!
for the first time in over a year, the car will be out of the shop ...
got my upgraded AAA card with me, just in case ...
Andy
oh, the joy of having a running car again ...
i know "you can never have enough power" but for now, i'm more than happy with how the car feels & drives.
i got *plenty* of power through all gears, once it hits the cams, it's just ripping until it hits the rev limiter. and still wants to go at that point ...
i've gotta be careful, having over 1000 lbs less to schlepp around than a stock 993, that motor seems like a real handful in a 914.
today, on the way back from napa, i took the 37 onramp (nice radius that gets a bit tighter towards the end), feathered in throttle coming out of the turn and then went down to full throttle (i was already in 4th) and BAM, rear goes a bit sideways, i stay on the throttle and correct with the steering and by the time the car is straight again, i'm already hitting 100 ...
Andy
WOW andy. The storys u have been talking about have been just as great as the pics. I cant wait 4 my conversion to be done . 3.2 . I will not have as much as u , but very very close.I know u will still be able to smoke the smokey; Great update on the ride . I can say 4 everyone. keep the road storys comen. Rick
Attached image(s)
a few more pics, this was at McMark's shop on thursday before the WCR ... talk about last minute ...
bleeding the brakes:
oil line routing:
custom flywheel adapter to use the 901 clutch and pressureplate with the 993 flywheel:
McMark and Tim installing the custom intake boot (elbow is from a mustang):
another closeup:
the underside:
ass up in the air:
Andy
and finally, here are a few pics and video from the WCR. the first time out in over a year ...
Andy
"idleing ..."
High Quality (~2 MB)
http://www.914world.com/events/wcr2007/Videos/WCR%202007%20-%20Ideling.wmv
"Saturday afternoon at the hotel":
High Quality (~20 MB)
http://www.914world.com/events/wcr2007/Videos/WCR%202007%20-%20Part%201%20(high).wmv
Low Quality (~3 MB)
http://www.914world.com/events/wcr2007/Videos/WCR%202007%20-%20Part%201%20(low).wmv
"Sunday drive along the coast up Hwy 1"
High Quality (~49.3 MB)
http://www.914world.com/events/wcr2007/Videos/WCR%202007%20-%20Part%202%20(high).wmv
Low Quality (~11.7 MB)
http://www.914world.com/events/wcr2007/Videos/WCR%202007%20-%20Part%202%20(low).wmv
"The sunday drive (race) through the woods and sonoma backroads ..."
High Quality (~105 MB)
http://www.914world.com/events/wcr2007/Videos/WCR%202007%20-%20Part%203%20(high).wmv
Low Quality (~14.3 MB)
http://www.914world.com/events/wcr2007/Videos/WCR%202007%20-%20Part%203%20(low).wmv
Congrats Andy. I now pronounce your car to be in the top five of all-time 914 club world history in lust value.
Couldn't be in better hands.
Andy, if I may ask, where did you get/manufacture/conjure up that 916 badge? Thanks.
did my first *real* drive today. drove all the way out to modesto/ceres to drop off some parts at Orange914's place ...
~180 miles roundtrip @ ~6 gallons of gas, that comes out to ~30 mpg ...
Andy
PS: while driving, the temps stay right around 180. while sitting intraffic in the central valley heat, it went up to 200 ...
not bad at all.
AMAZING
Only after the nice paint goes on.
awesome ride
almost as nice as mine
Attached image(s)
Andy candy, Kelly candy. Crap I needs me somadat candy to.
Andy,
FABULOUS JOB! You too McMark!
I did not see any pics of the ducting for front oil cooler. Did I miss the pics in the 13 pages of postings?
My poor little 3.2 now seems so meager compared to your big burley 3.6!
1800 lbs! Wow! That is skinny with the 3.6. I must have heavy gas in the tank in my teener. My teener is still about 2050 lbs with fiberglass decks and front fenders.
Great Job!
Eddie
old clutch ...
can you see the burn-marks?
fuzzy closeup:
burned the pressure plate as well:
what's all that dust falling out of there?
Andy
new clutch, pressureplate (thanks paul! ) and custom ringgear:
custom tool i made to remove/install the ball socket for the clutch lever pivot. 14mm socket that needs to be ground down to fit.
and installed :
Andy
new 993 combo gauge. now i got the right gauge for the oil sending units. also hooked up the "check engine" light ...
wired and ready to go:
fuzzy closeup of them warning lights:
Andy
Very cool. But don't you have too much power with that 3.6??
So Andy, you now have the late push (pull?) type clutch with flat flywheel and bolted on starter ring? Is that the only mod you have to make, repositioning the pivot ball? Any mods to the cable?
Finally we see the reason behind Andy's fuzzy pics. Lay off the juice man, you've got the jitters !!
Attached image(s)
I too have some clutch holding problems as horsepower builds with the turbo, I was thinking of trying a Kevlar clutch before having to step up to a stage 3 pressure plate, Andy are you using a stage 2 pp? if not what........
The Kep stage 2 wont hold mine, mostly in 5th, Kevlar clutches supposably can hold
more horsepower so that maybe the option i will try.
I'm no expert but there is a big difference in a disk built to last (Kevlar) and one that is built to take torque. I suspect the Kevlar is indestructible but may not offer the best coefficient of friction to prevent the slippage.
Call Brett at Kennedy Engineering and ask about the race fabric that has more metal in it. The disk will be a little harder on the flywheel and pressure plate but the additional metal fibers make it grip better without adding a heavy pressure plate to prevent the slippage. It's what I used on mine with a stock 915 pressure plate and it does not slip at all under anything I throw at it.
I've talked to Brett at Kennedy his move is for me to send him my pressure plate and tweak it to something like a stage 2.5 or go to a 3
I have also talked to Renegade who use the Kevlar clutches exclusively on there V8 conversions because they say they can hold over 30% more HP.
I'm surprised your stage 2's can handle the torque, i would of thought that your 3.6's would have more torque than my 3.1 turbo. The turbo engine has more horsepower than you have with the 3.6's but i dont think it has as much torque.
This is from the Renegade website:
CLUTCHES
Infinite hours of testing are invested into our products. In the quest for more power, we burned up clutches, roasted flywheels, and tested the abilities of our best pressure plates, all in the name of a "streetable" clutch package. Many unsuccessful combinations were attempted before we came up with the right solution.
We found that the Porsche clutch disc, using a Kevlar facing, works extremely well and remains very acceptable for a daily driver. The Kevlar friction material increases holding power 30-40% over standard materials.
KEVLAR CLUTCH DISCS
Kevlar is one of the newest editions to the vast array of materials used to surface a clutch disc. While we offer just about any material for any application, the Kevlar, in most cases, is the best all around choice for a combination of street and track use.
NOTE: Proper break-in is a must with this material. Misuse or abuse during break-in will cause chatter and limited holding characteristics. Up to 500 miles of very mild engagement and limited compression braking is required to "seat" this material. Once it's properly broken-in, the overall performance will be second to none
Actually, my pressure plate is stock (915) but I don't know how it compares to a Kennedy Stage 2 901. When I talked to Brett I told him I did not want a heavy feeling clutch and wanted no part of a heavy duty pressure plate. I find that very annoying in a street car.
He steered me to this special fabric with more metal and claimed it would do the job and far exceed organic disks. Even with my posi 915, I can stand on it without a problem with a chipped 3.6. I'm pretty happy with it. They rivet and glue the fabric on a disk and it results in a slightly thicker disk and they have to machine the pressure plate a little to make up for it.
Brett would know better than I if the disk he sold me is better or worse than Kevlar for torque capacity. I would pose that question directly to him.
Brett doesn't like Kevlar disc's mostly for the break in, if not done right there easy to burn up self destruct and wont hold at all.
if done right i believe there suppose to hold better are less abrasive and last longer than organic.
I have talked to a couple of guys running them in there huge horsepower turbo 911's
who swear them.
Renegades Kevlar 9" clutch sells for under 200.00 and i think it's worth a try, if i get one, i will post my observations this Spring or Summer
when i get back on the road.
Andy, any chance you can elaborate on a couple things?
I can't find anywhere that you talked about mounting the flywheel pickup. It looks like you have some special bracket and then cut the trans bell housing to accomodate it. What happend there?
The drive axles...
You mentioned you used 944 CV's, what year / type? (S2/turbo/standard)
"Early 911 hubs" Any idea of the part number or exact years and
did these fit the 914 hub bearings?
Dito for the stub axels
When you say "modified" 914 shafts, what did that entail?
"later 911 flanges" would that of come from a 915 trans?
Thanks!
An FYI....The conversion flywheel is smaller than a 993 making the sensor gap too big unless you machine the bracket for the sensor to drop deeper...see pictures
that looks very nice Andy.
Curious if that will blow alot of hot air on your head with the top off.
rich
Nothing some well placed vortex generators couldn't correct.
Sweeeeeet!
Looks great. Can't wait to see the hood.
Nice ducting.
2 questions:
1) is the ducting removable for access to the battery box?
2) What did/are you doing for exit onto the hood?
ing this thread to see if Andy has pics of his hood cut for the oil cooler
ducting?
Nice. Mini-ferrari type set up. The 308's and 512's didnt have a shroud, the front trunk bulkhead just acted as a wall to direct air up through the louvers, and as you did- Ferrari just used a strip of foam to seal the area. I would think the shroud will keep water out of the trunk to some extent, if you ever drive in the rain. I may go this route to vent my radiator and keep the wheel structure intact. Have a spare hood to mess with.
Thanks for posting.
This was fun to read! I should've taken a lot more pictures while building through all of the various stages. I have lots from specific mods but an entire timeline would've been a lot more interesting.
Note to self... next time stop long enough to take more pix along the way. It's just such a PITA to repeatedly stop working, clean up enough not to turn your camera into a greaseball, and get back to it.
Second note to self: Invite friends to build with me, looks a lot more interesting. And there would have been more beer after each day's work.
Hello Andy,
I am looking for a little advice and possible direction. I have purchased a 3.6 conversion car at mid- project. The car has all the rust, body, and paint work completed. It has a 1995 993 3.6l mounted in the car with the correct clutch/flywheel set up for a 901 transaxle. Already has five lug conversion.
So I still need to wire in the engine harness, build an exhaust system, figure out gauges, fuel pump, etc.
I have read your build thread with great interest. Do you have a build sheet of the specific parts you used and do you have any recommendation looking back? Any particular insights?
Thanks in advance!
Danny
Nice car you are going to have there. Great source you have tapped for info too.
Wow- just re-visited this thread as we prepare to begin the engine swap in my car. Dropping the 3.2 and installing a '95 3.6. Should be fun. Andy's car has been running since 2007-ish, that speaks well for these engines and their work. Of course, we all know SirAndy babies that car wherever he goes.....
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