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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Drag Engine

Posted by: r_towle Feb 1 2006, 11:44 PM

IF you were to build a drag beetle...

Would you use a type 4 or a type 1 motor?
Why ,dont just say the bottom end is better, factor in cost and available parts...

How big?

I went to the cal-look web site www.cal-look.com
and there are alot of different configurations on that site...

Rich

Posted by: alpha434 Feb 1 2006, 11:49 PM

I'm sure you could do it with whatever. Some guy wrote a book on drag racing a porsche 356. I saw a type 4 pushing a theoretic 1000hp on the cover of some VW magazine. I don't have a clue as to what they had to do to get it there. Twin turbo. That and bored to 3.oL. I don't know anything else about it.

Posted by: john rogers Feb 1 2006, 11:51 PM

I'd use a type 1 because of the heads, they are much more efficient. At the 1/8 mile drags in San Diego I have seen a 1900 (0r so)CC type 1 bug with Weber IDA 48's and a shot of NOS beat big block Chevy's and Fords. It revved to 11,000 RPM and belched fire at every shift of the crash box. Anyways, the owner said it was good for one weekend and they would do new bearings.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 1 2006, 11:52 PM

QUOTE (john rogers @ Feb 1 2006, 10:51 PM)
I'd use a type 1 because of the heads, they are much more efficient. At the 1/8 mile drags in San Diego I have seen a 1900 (0r so)CC type 1 bug with Weber IDA 48's and a shot of NOS beat big block Chevy's and Fords. It revved to 11,000 RPM and belched fire at every shift of the crash box. Anyways, the owner said it was good for one weekend and they would do new bearings.

everyone does T1's....

must be a reason.......

Posted by: McMark Feb 1 2006, 11:54 PM

I'd build a Type 1. Type IV is 'spensive.

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 1 2006, 11:57 PM

Type 1- They have the HI RPM narrow powerband that is useful for drag racing applications... Also drag engines do not have to live long, so the benefits of a long living TIV are wasted...

BTW_ TI heads are not "More efficient"- they are a totally differently margined head that has characteristics for more HP than torque and thats what a drag car needs...

The TIV is not a good drag racer, not until you slap on a set of my Billet heads and at the present they are not available to the public, only available on my complete "Superhero" engines...

My new test engine has modeled at 280HP, I dropped the displacement from 2,980cc to 2771cc and expect to pick up 2,000 RPM in the top end and increase power from 235 as a 3.0 to 280 as a 2,771 through added efficiency and a better "Combo".... But this is a daily driver engine for the beetle- it's not a drag racer!

I went down in displacement because as a 3.0 the engine made 240 lb/ft of torque and was done reving @ 5,600 RPM..... I decided to kill some of the torque and increasde HP with the new combo...

Posted by: sgomes Feb 2 2006, 12:14 AM

ahem.....

http://www.nedra.com/reports/pso04/pso04_photos&movies.html

Posted by: tat2dphreak Feb 2 2006, 08:45 AM

type 1, you'll need to rebuild often, and the parts are cheaper and more accessible...

Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 2 2006, 09:02 AM

I've built severial T1 drag engines, many part combo's and in the lower classes they can be built to last. Many of the cars do double duty as daily drivers and weekend warriors.

Again you have to watch for cheap junk parts, in the T1 world there is a huge amount of china junk. Even with the T1 you can get into mega bucks if your serious. You gets what you pays for.

Your engine (and tranny,etc.) will be as strong as your weakest part.

Posted by: r_towle Feb 2 2006, 10:30 AM

so, what do you think is a good size...

It seems I can buy heads that are ready to go...

Rich

Posted by: bd1308 Feb 2 2006, 10:35 AM

my buddy has a 2110 type1 that he likes....

b

Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 2 2006, 10:46 AM

QUOTE (sgomes @ Feb 1 2006, 10:14 PM)
ahem.....

http://www.nedra.com/reports/pso04/pso04_photos&movies.html

That is friggen cool!

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Feb 2 2006, 11:19 AM

build it to the rule book of the sanctioning race entity

Posted by: r_towle Feb 2 2006, 11:32 AM

I agree, but there are no east coast drag clubs for beetles that I can find....so its IHRA specs,,which leaves alot of room...

I would prefer to build to the biggest NA spec class...

But there is little beetle competition up here...

So I thought it would be fun just to build a chevy/ford humiliator, for the local strips.

Basically autox no longer scares me enough..
In order for track to be scary enough I would either have to build a dedicated 914, or loose my street setup in my 914...dont want to do that..

And I have this beetle sitting out there...

So I thought, why not build a sleeper drag beetle...
1/4 mile or 1/8 mile spec,,,depends on the track.

That would keep me amused for a few years...and then I have a cool beetle afterwards.

Im thinking this config...

2162cc (84x90.5)
Scat crank
5.7" H-beam rods
C89 Scat camshaft, 0.576" lift with 326 degrees duration, 1.4 Scat rockers
44 x 38mm Competition Eliminator heads, fully ported , dual Chevy springs
9.3 CR.
44 IDF with 42 mm venturies
MSD 6AL ignition, 1 3/4" stainless steel exhaust with a A1 2 1/2" stainless muffler

Now this guy is getting low 11's in the quarter mile...at 118 mph

and the motor is still streetable... mine has 44 IDF's (cause I already have them) he had 48mm IDA,s (which I can find if I need them)

That is what I want...a barely streetable config..that is really built to drag...

Rich

Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 2 2006, 11:34 AM

go boost. only way to make monster power......

2332cc i think is the biggest type 1 ive seen, add a turbo and go from there

Posted by: jhadler Feb 2 2006, 12:36 PM

Here in Colorado, there used to be a girl who'd show up to the Bandimere Drag Strip in a pink VW beetle, and absolutely shame the big block boys...

That thing was seriously fast...

Ideal setup, rear engine...

-Josh2

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Feb 2 2006, 08:09 PM

only go beyond 82 mm type 1 stroke if you are an experienced builder. are you building it or someone else? are you experienced?

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 2 2006, 08:18 PM

Here is your combo to the "T"... Dyno proven to 220 poniesON PUMP GAS by yours truly with all off the shelf parts!

2332cc
84mm CB crank
CB 2665 rods (Hbeam 2" Chevy journal 5.5long)
94mm B pistons and cylinders
CB wedgeport heads, flycut them to attain 10.5:1 CR with a .040 deck
Web 86C+5 cam (Talk to debbie and tell her Jake sent you)
Ceramic lifters from LN Engineering
Manton pushrods (I can sell you these)
CB 1.4 ratio rockers
Weber 48 IDF or IDA carbs(40mm vents for the IDFs or 37mm for the IDA)
Mallory unilite dizzy set to 28 degres full advance
A-1 header system from Tiger with 1-3/4" primaries and a 3" Magnaflow muffler

There is the whole bitch, buy it and bolt it together.... If you wanna run 110 octane plunge the heads to 12:1 and the engine will make a solid 240 pnies pretty easily.

(I can't believe I just did that)

Posted by: r_towle Feb 2 2006, 08:33 PM

It type 1 jake...dont worry.

its the 10:1 that I was shying away from...

Pump gas....I dont mind race gas for the drag....

But will that run pump around town....

Wow, just roughly priced it out.
New heads, new case, new crank, new rods, all new less than 7k in parts...but lots of wow..

Rich

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 2 2006, 10:33 PM

Compression is your friend. That cam has 320 degrees of duration and bleeds a ton of CR dynamically...

I ran 10:1 CR with my 3 Liter TIV on pump gas and she cooled just fine and had plenty of power!

Build it, drive it. Nothing is worse than a low compression, big cammed engine- they are impossible to tune, run like pigs and are a waste of effort.

Bump it up, hear it thump!

I can set you up with all those parts at a better deal than retail if you want- i still have my Type 1 hook ups from the old days!