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Posted by: 76green Feb 3 2006, 04:49 PM

I have tried read all the posts on replacing the fuel lines before I am posting this. I have been working on a 76 914/4 with FI that runs great ...I have replaced all the brakelines, master cylinder, calipers front and back. Tightened everything and cleaned all electrical connections. THe fuel hoses in the engine bay appear to have been replaced by the previous owner but I do not know about the ones in the center tunnel. I just want to drive the thing but then again I don't want it going up in flames! Is there a good post or can someone tell me how difficult it is to switch out the lines in the tunnel with the engine in? Or should I just drive it?!? I LOVE THIS site!...thanks for the help

Posted by: tat2dphreak Feb 3 2006, 04:55 PM

1)


2)
http://www.914world.com/specs/tech_fuellines_ss.php?PHPSESSID=72edd5865f812f2047ce917499adf269

3) I don't think it's as common as it seems... you would probably be fine not replacing the fuel lines...

but then again, why risk it? you can do it in an afternoon or 2... or you can drive it a bit, and then do it... you can do it with the engine in if you jack the car up enough to give you some room to work... but the added difficulty won't save you much time... it was easy as pie with the engine out...

Posted by: 736conver Feb 3 2006, 05:06 PM

If it were my car I would replace the lines. Why risk it. Its not that bad of a job and you should be able to get it done in a weekend, if not a couple of hours.

Posted by: jetboy Feb 5 2006, 01:41 PM

Instead of all that bending, has anyone replaced these lines with a steel braided line instead? Any issues? Of course pulling some wire through to help it route through would help, but, any other issues?

Posted by: URY914 Feb 5 2006, 01:58 PM

The great debate continues....




(I would not)

Paul

Posted by: swl Feb 5 2006, 04:08 PM

OK Paul I'll bite. Other than cost, why not? One line from the fuel regulator to the tank. One line from the filter to the rail. Seems like a nice simple solution. You would have to do some overdrilling of holes and some interesting grommet work. Probably no easyier than doing the bending.

What other problems?

My uneducated opinion on the replace or not debate as a result of my own pondering: If your fuel pump is up front your are running pressurized fuel through plastic lines in the cabin. That's a scary place for a burst of brittle plastic. Most likely failure would be where it goes through the aft firewall - thats where the elements can get to the plastic/rubber (dunno what the late models look like.) Pretty close to the exhaust for my liking. Seems like a no brainer if the engine is out. With it in you just have to make a judgement based on what the plastic feels like.

I won't open the steel vrs aluminum debate again.

Posted by: anthony Feb 5 2006, 04:20 PM

QUOTE (swl @ Feb 5 2006, 03:08 PM)

My uneducated opinion on the replace or not debate as a result of my own pondering: If your fuel pump is up front your are running pressurized fuel through plastic lines in the cabin. That's a scary place for a burst of brittle plastic.

Has anyone ever seen brittle plastic fuel lines in the center tunnel???

I say leave them in unless they are defective. I think a lot of guys replace them "just because". The center tunnel lines are tough. I'd keep them. The ones to be most concerned about are the ones in the engine compartment.

Posted by: bd1308 Feb 5 2006, 04:31 PM

QUOTE (anthony @ Feb 5 2006, 04:20 PM)

QUOTE (swl @ Feb 5 2006, 03:08 PM) My uneducated opinion on the replace or not debate as a result of my own pondering:  If your fuel pump is up front your are running pressurized fuel through plastic lines in the cabin.  That's a scary place for a burst of brittle plastic. Has anyone ever seen brittle plastic fuel lines in the center tunnel??? I say leave them in unless they are defective. I think a lot of guys replace them "just because". The center tunnel lines are tough. I'd keep them. The ones to be most concerned about are the ones in the engine compartment.

mine are still good, but i dont think they're OE ones.

b

Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 5 2006, 04:32 PM

The failure that burned Betty's car so badly that the windshield fell in from the heat was determined by the fire marshall to be a defective fuel line where they make the turn from the tunnel to follow the front of the engine compartment.


I will not own another 914 that has not had the plastic POS fuel lines replaced.

Cap'n Crusty hates SS brake lines. I hate the plastic fuel lines. I have experience to prove to me that they are dangerous.







(getting down off my soapbox now)

Posted by: swl Feb 5 2006, 04:33 PM

mine are out and no they are not at all brittle - normal caveat - YMMV largely dependant on air quality conditions. There have be posts in the past where failure in the engine compartment or below have been reported.

I do agree with you Anthony - it is a 'just in case' type of thing. For me the worry zone is from the output of the fuel pump to the input of the pressure regulator. The rest of the stuff is not a problem.

Getting them in and out is not a big thing. Just make sure you get you get them out of the the tabs. I found I had to remove the shifter to do that.

Posted by: URY914 Feb 5 2006, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (anthony @ Feb 5 2006, 02:20 PM)

QUOTE (swl @ Feb 5 2006, 03:08 PM) My uneducated opinion on the replace or not debate as a result of my own pondering:  If your fuel pump is up front your are running pressurized fuel through plastic lines in the cabin.  That's a scary place for a burst of brittle plastic. Has anyone ever seen brittle plastic fuel lines in the center tunnel??? I say leave them in unless they are defective. I think a lot of guys replace them "just because". The center tunnel lines are tough. I'd keep them. The ones to be most concerned about are the ones in the engine compartment.

You got it right!!!

When I took my stock plastic lines out I put them in the vise and squeezed them all the way down. Ya know what? They didn't crack or break.


Why make more work for yourself if it not needed?


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: swl Feb 5 2006, 04:41 PM

please tell me you didn't put that back in the car

Posted by: bd1308 Feb 5 2006, 04:44 PM

well Clay, I would do teh SS in a heart beat, because I have heard about your fire...

but SS doesnt take well to flexing...and I think I could mess up the install....

b

Posted by: URY914 Feb 5 2006, 04:46 PM

QUOTE (swl @ Feb 5 2006, 02:41 PM)

please tell me you didn't put that back in the car

No, I used a single aluminum line.

And BTW don't anyone say anything about aluminum and metal touching and electrolsis (sp). That would about 20 years and I dont see it as a problem.

Posted by: swl Feb 5 2006, 04:49 PM

Figured you would - it's lighter!

Posted by: swl Feb 5 2006, 04:53 PM

QUOTE (URY914 @ Feb 5 2006, 02:46 PM)

And BTW don't anyone say anything about aluminum and metal touching and electrolsis (sp). That would about 20 years and I dont see it as a problem.

That sounds about right. My aluminum threshold covers where pretty much eaten through from the back. The steel underneath was in great shape though :-)

I couldn't possibly imagine an aluminum fuel line getting enough conductive contact with steel to be a problem even in 20 years.

Posted by: anthony Feb 5 2006, 05:09 PM

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Feb 5 2006, 03:32 PM)

The failure that burned Betty's car so badly that the windshield fell in from the heat was determined by the fire marshall to be a defective fuel line where they make the turn from the tunnel to follow the front of the engine compartment. You'd think the evidence would have been burned away.

I'm really curious how the fire marshall determined this on a car that was burned so badly.

Posted by: trekkor Feb 5 2006, 07:56 PM

I am running -6 SS braided line.
I used the old line as a fish tape.

What, did it take about 1/2 hour?
Single line for Webers.


KT

Posted by: gregrobbins Feb 5 2006, 10:01 PM

My mechanic is suggesing to replace with copper covered at contact points with rubber hose. Says they do it all the time on VWs with no problem.

Any comments?

Posted by: yarin Feb 6 2006, 03:05 PM

Is that 914club procedure for front a front mount fuel pump?

I want to change my fuel lines as well. I was going to follow the Pelican fuel line replacement how to. Any objections to that?

Posted by: tat2dphreak Feb 6 2006, 03:20 PM

QUOTE (yarin @ Feb 6 2006, 04:05 PM)

Is that 914club procedure for front a front mount fuel pump? I want to change my fuel lines as well. I was going to follow the Pelican fuel line replacement how to. Any objections to that?

you have my permission, but it takes a 65% approval

Posted by: dangrouche Feb 17 2006, 09:39 AM

I just wanna know; what size tubing in stainless is the smallest I can get away with for feed and return lines? We have 7/16, 5/16, & 3/8 listed in all these replacment instructions. I have stock location for fuel pump my '74 2.0.

Does FLAPS sell the stainless tubing or do I need to go to a 18wheeler repair shop for tubing?

Posted by: tat2dphreak Feb 17 2006, 09:42 AM

I got mine from summit... good price, good quality... I went with aluminum instead of SS though

Posted by: yarin Feb 17 2006, 10:53 AM

I followed pelican and bought 5/16 and 3/8 mild steel brake line from my FLAPS (i feel like such a geek using this for the first time). 60" and 40" each. Instead of using a 90deg fitting i'm going to see if the 60" line is long enough to put a 90deg bend in it. Then go with a compression fitting coupler to the 40" line.

I pulled the tank and yanked the old fuel pump and filter. It was definitely time to replace everything.

Haven't pulled the old lines out of the tunnel yet, that's next. I'm going to try it with the engine in. Wish me luck!

Posted by: mcbain77 Feb 17 2006, 10:58 AM

Go forward and succeed yarin!!! Iwas thinking . . . if your shifter assembly is out and the shift rod is removed, do you think you could use the hole where the rod goes through the firewall to feed the lines through the center tunnel. I was thinking this might be a possibility without removing the engine.

I am slated to do this very thing next weekend so good luck and report back.

Posted by: yarin Feb 17 2006, 11:06 AM

QUOTE (mcbain77 @ Feb 17 2006, 08:58 AM)

Go forward and succeed yarin!!! Iwas thinking . . . if your shifter assembly is out and the shift rod is removed, do you think you could use the hole where the rod goes through the firewall to feed the lines through the center tunnel. I was thinking this might be a possibility without removing the engine. I am slated to do this very thing next weekend so good luck and report back.

My shift rod is still in, but that can be easily removed. I don't see a need to though.

My plan is as follows:

-Unclip the metal tabs holding the fuel lines in the tunnel.
-Push a solid wire through the length of both lines. Tie off at fuel tank side.
-Pull out stock lines.
-Tie wire to new lines.
-Pull through.

I think my hands are small enough to get into the front access panel at the front of the footwell and bend the lines there if needed. I've never done this before, but I will be sure to post results and pics when complete. It's too cold to work in the garage now, hopefully next week.

Posted by: Cire Jan 7 2010, 05:35 AM

I know this is an old thread but I figured what the heck. = )

Trekkor, do you happen to have pictures of your stainless steel line through the tunnel? did you do AN fittings on each end? How do you like it? Any issues? Anything you would do different?

Thanks for anything you can tell me on this one. = )

Eric

Posted by: kg6dxn Jan 7 2010, 06:20 AM

Be very ccareful with copper. They can tend to break with too much vibration. Copper also cunducts heat very well and can heat up the fuel.

I run two 3/8 Aluminum lines in the stock location with -6AN fittings all around. Aluminum lines are the favored replacement in the Muscle Car world. I have put these on many cars and have never had a problem. They can also be hand formed without kinking or you can use a tubing bender with great results. I've also clamped 3/8 hose right over the aluminum lines (slide it on and clamp) without any leaks. Even with a 50psi FI set up.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 7 2010, 02:35 PM

The quoted procedure at the beginning of the thread was written before Chris Foley put out his fuel line kit. I have installed his kits multiple times, and always with great success. They can be installed in a weekend, they are not expensive, and they are worth the effort just for the piece of mind.

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 7 2010, 03:05 PM

Old thread with old info, some of which has now been obsolete for years ...
Andy

Posted by: iamchappy Jan 7 2010, 06:45 PM

The old clear ones hold up better than the later black plastic ones, i had the black plastic ones in a 76 crack and leak from inside the tunnel, flooded out the passenger side floor and melted all of the tar. Dealer replaced the lines because at that time it was a factory recall replacement.

Replace with the SS and never think about it ever again.

Posted by: Cheapsnake Jan 8 2010, 09:22 AM

Another caution about copper. It work hardens with vibration and is subject to cracking. That's why you see it all over in houses (they don't vibrate) and seldom in vehicles.

Posted by: ME733 Jan 8 2010, 10:36 AM

...and I say by all means take every shortcut possable. Do not replace those fuel lines, after all they are ONLY (40) FORTY +/- years old, and should be good indefinately. You will have many years, after the fire that turns your car into rubble, to congratulate yourself on the time and effort you saved by avoiding this minor project.... murray