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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ This can't be right, is it?
Posted by: VegasRacer Feb 6 2006, 04:55 PM
Is the bolt supposed to be bent like this?
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Posted by: Mueller Feb 6 2006, 04:58 PM
ouch....you've been running over curbs again??? 
Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 6 2006, 04:59 PM
my rear ARB links were always straight...
check for contact of the top link with the bottom of the trunk... compression failures are a bitch - glad you caught that one in time...
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 6 2006, 05:08 PM
Damnit! Looks like you finally need a part!
How's everything else goin?
Give me a buzz anytime...
Keith
Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 6 2006, 05:16 PM
bottom out?
Posted by: VegasRacer Feb 6 2006, 05:21 PM
Both sides are bent the same. There are dents in the trunk floor.
It has been like that for as long as I have owned the car.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 6 2006, 05:22 PM
| QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Feb 6 2006, 04:21 PM) |
| Both sides are bent the same. There are dents in the trunk floor. It has been like that for as long as I have owned the car. |
previous owner belong to the Mafia? too many dead bodies in the trunk for thier trip out to the desert??
Posted by: VegasRacer Feb 6 2006, 05:25 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 6 2006, 04:22 PM) | ||
previous owner belong to the Mafia? too many dead bodies in the trunk for thier trip out to the desert?? |
Nope. PO used the car for open road races.
I guess this is what happens when you hit a dip at 120+
Posted by: VegasRacer Feb 9 2006, 03:15 PM
More often than not, when someone post a question here we are left to wonder if they applied the advice that they were given and achieved success with their project of if they said 'Fuch It' and failed.
UPDATE & CONCLUSION: with a happy ending.
I took the damaged piece to FLAPS, the speed shop and VW place. None could identify the part, much less provide a replacement. At the Porsche shop I happened across a guy who had recently upgraded the drop links for the Weltmeister front sway bar on his Turbo. He offered me the nearly new old parts if I wanted them. Thanks Roger.
With new parts in hand, I went back to the workshop, cut off 6 inches, got out the tap and die set and cut new threads. Success.
The old parts were more deformed than I originally thought. It is a testament to the high quality of Weltmeister that the old ones were able to bend and twist this much without breaking.
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Posted by: VegasRacer Feb 9 2006, 03:16 PM
This looks much better now. 
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Posted by: Grimstead Feb 9 2006, 03:21 PM
Good deal John
| QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Feb 9 2006, 01:15 PM) |
| With new parts in hand, I went back to the workshop, cut off 6 inches |
Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 9 2006, 03:25 PM
Pity that Dutchman clamp is on the top of the adjustment slider. Looks like it really adversely affects the available free travel without offering much in return.
having the clamp on the side or the bottom would work a bunch better, IMO...
there's always Version 2.0 ...
Posted by: maf914 Feb 9 2006, 03:33 PM
What sort of bolt does the Weltmeister rear sway bar use where it passes through the control arm and bottom eye of the shock? That doesn't look like the stock bolt with the ball for the sway bar bushing to snap onto. The Welt appears to have an allen cap bolt where the ball wouls be.
Posted by: VegasRacer Feb 9 2006, 03:57 PM
detail
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Posted by: brant Feb 9 2006, 04:04 PM
| QUOTE (maf914 @ Feb 9 2006, 02:33 PM) |
| What sort of bolt does the Weltmeister rear sway bar use where it passes through the control arm and bottom eye of the shock? That doesn't look like the stock bolt with the ball for the sway bar bushing to snap onto. The Welt appears to have an allen cap bolt where the ball wouls be. |
Yes,
the welt bar comes with a different shock bolt that is tapped for an allen bolt.
John, we did it this way due to our inverted shocks and lack of space to go "up" to the bar:
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Posted by: KenH Feb 9 2006, 04:14 PM
OK I think this is the problem.
When you jack-up the rear of the car and then lower it, the connections to the sway-bar can "flip" backwards. At this point they ARE NOT up & down but locked against the Sway Bar.
Ken
Posted by: VegasRacer Feb 9 2006, 05:34 PM
| QUOTE (brant @ Feb 9 2006, 03:04 PM) |
| we did it this way due to our inverted shocks and lack of space to go "up" to the bar: |
Very interesting.
I thought the bar was supposed to be mounted as close to horizontal as possible? It looks really low. It must work 'cause I don't see that you have an scuffs of scrapes from hitting the ground. I already have dents in the trunk floor from not having enough room for it to go up under load. Is there any trick to flipping it, or is it as easy as it looks?
Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 9 2006, 05:49 PM
| QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Feb 9 2006, 04:34 PM) | ||
Very interesting. I thought the bar was supposed to be mounted as close to horizontal as possible? It looks really low. It must work 'cause I don't see that you have an scuffs of scrapes from hitting the ground. I already have dents in the trunk floor from not having enough room for it to go up under load. Is there any trick to flipping it, or is it as easy as it looks? |
perpendicular to travel....... i think is what you want.... for Optimum mechanical advantage on the bar....
but i dunno nuddin
Posted by: KenH Feb 9 2006, 05:54 PM
Depending on the setting it may or may not flip.
With the car on the ground I think the setting on the bar wants to be slightly towards the front of the car. If you watch while lifting & lowering the rear of the car you can see the problem.
I have had it sometime flip and not flip at the same setting.
Also, you can push it in to position as you are lowering the car.
Note - the stock bar does not do this.
Ken
Posted by: brant Feb 9 2006, 06:20 PM
| QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Feb 9 2006, 04:34 PM) | ||
Very interesting. I thought the bar was supposed to be mounted as close to horizontal as possible? It looks really low. It must work 'cause I don't see that you have an scuffs of scrapes from hitting the ground. I already have dents in the trunk floor from not having enough room for it to go up under load. Is there any trick to flipping it, or is it as easy as it looks? |
I think you loose a little mechanical advantage from running it upside down....
but as you can see in our picture. We are set so soft that I don't think we needed more mechanical advantage. I could stiffen the setting a ton more, but The pictured setting was arrived at through actual track tuning and didn't need to be stiffer for that particular track.
Also, the picture is taken with the car loaded on a trailer and strapped down.... So it looks pretty low... but if you look carefully you can see the header and muffler are even lower. I didn't drag anywhere, including on and off the trailer. No doubt deep sand could high center my car, but the exhaust would drag first.
due to our inverted spring mount, we can't flip the bar "up" anyways... and this seems to work very well without causing any trunk floor bottoming issues. If I maxed out the bar stiffness and still needed more, I might try something else but tuning actually pointed me in the other direction.
easy
brant
Posted by: r_towle Feb 9 2006, 09:56 PM
I would say that flipping the bar over...I mean take the bar out, put the side that is currently on the drivers side on the passengers side..
This will change the angle of the part that is hitting your trunk floor.
Rich
Posted by: maf914 Feb 10 2006, 01:32 PM
It appears from the photos that the through bolt supporting the shock and sway bar may be under quite a high bending load. Are there any instances of failure of this bolt?
The springs carry the weight of the car. Maybe this is really not that much of a load?
Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 10 2006, 02:01 PM
the springs carry the weight of the car, and damper forces may be more than 3X the spring load (which is why those rear bolts - Porsche calls them 'pins' - are so beefy...
but the rear ARB is pretty wimpy on most cars - and those long spindly lever arms have their own deflections that reduce the real spring load.
and remember - both lever arms move together in jounce and rebound, and the ARB mount (that Allen capscrew) sees shear load only in one-wheel jounce -- and roll - which 914's don't really do that much of in the back anyway - especially with uprated springs...
Posted by: brant Feb 10 2006, 02:03 PM
| QUOTE (maf914 @ Feb 10 2006, 12:32 PM) |
| It appears from the photos that the through bolt supporting the shock and sway bar may be under quite a high bending load. Are there any instances of failure of this bolt? The springs carry the weight of the car. Maybe this is really not that much of a load? |
your not the first person to ask that (paul was I think)
but apparently it's not a problem.
mine is an extreme example, because with our weird shocks we even run an aluminum spacer on that bolt...
yet no failure, concerns, bending, or problems.
I copied my set up from AJRS who runs many BIG slick shod cars with similar set ups and 300+ hp
brant
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Posted by: VegasRacer Feb 10 2006, 03:07 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. I have learned more about rear sway bars than I expected. I think I will keep my set up as is for the first track weekend. The new drop links have already changed the angle of attack and I want to see if that changed the feel and response. One thing at a time.
BTW - when I first installed the new parts I did it with the ass of the car in the air. When I dropped it, the joint filpped and bound up. I reset it the 2nd time with the car on the ground. I then jacked it up 6 times to see if I would again have the problem of it flipping. So far it all seems good to go.
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