As a result of a few things Len and I have been playing with the HP and troque levels of pretty much all my engines have been increasing recently.
One of the most recent cases of this was a 914 customer who is local to us that came to me with a 2.0 engine with Mark Stephens heads. Len had to do a lot of work to overcome what MSHP had done to the heads and one of the things he did was the only way the heads could be saved, it was also something he had been wanting to try for quite some time, so the change was employed on this engine.
Well, two Fridays ago the customer came up for the final dyno pulls and witnessed the engine make 202HP ON PUMP GAS WITH 9.5:1 CR! This engine was built from my standard "Annihilator" base engine that typically makes in the low 180s for HP and about 170 on torque fully optimized- this engine made 183HP ON THE FIRST PULL WITH DEFAULT SETTINGS!
After a few tweeks of the Mallory and a re-jet the engine made 202HP at only 6,000 RPM and 183 lb/ft of torque at 4,000 RPM! This engine typically needs to rev to 7, 000 RPM to make 180 HP, not the case here! The crazy part is this engine made 167 lb/ft of torque at only 3,000 RPM- The torque curve is so flat that it almost looks artificial!
Needless to say my customer was astonished as he paid for 180 ponies, but got the added power at no extra charge....
When I called Len and told him what the engine had done, he was not suprised that much, and this same change is standard equipment on the "New generation" cylinder heads that we are presently working with to complete development of. These heads are going to change a ton, because we are attaining more power for the SAME cost as before AND larger engines (2563 and 2615) will now be CHEAPER than before!
Just last week I used the very first set of these production versions of the heads on a 2270 I built for the Hot VWs build up series and that engine also made more Torque and HP than any 2270 ever has before! It did this with only 9.55:1 CR as well, on pump gas with no crazy parts and this engine made peak power @ 5,500 RPM, meaning there is no need to twist the engine to insane levels to get the power, and the whole engine loves that!
The best part is that VERY SOON ALL my engines and engine kits will incorporate these "New Generation" heads as standard equipment, and the prices are not moving a bit!
Go Jake Go!
You know, you keeping making great numbers with crappy technology, and sooner or later Chevy's or Briggs and Stratton are gonna come knocking on your door with a job offer.....
I was offered a job at Briggs 7 years ago.....
As far as Chevy's go- They have radiators- HELL NO!
What if you twist it to insane levels?
Very impressive Jake!
QUOTE (olav @ Feb 15 2006, 07:15 PM) |
What if you twist it to insane levels? |
Very cool. You've got a great job!! Keep it up!
QUOTE (olav @ Feb 15 2006, 07:15 PM) |
What if you twist it to insane levels? |
Wow This is good news. My car will be ready in the fall and I'm planing on a 2270 kit.
I even have all the parts to assemble a 2165 but you can't compete with extensive R&D.
I'll put this engine together for my rail and get buy one of Jakes engine kits for the car
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 16 2006, 04:39 AM) |
...and it'll be unveiled at the Classic Leman in France this July, and I'll be there to drive it! |
Jake Im curious can you describe what mshp had done to these hases that had to be "overcome"? I ask cuz ...I got a set !! and I was appaled at what they did
yeah, me too. I have a set of scanky looking mark stephens 2.0 heads. alledgedly rebuilt
Jake,
Will these heads make it to my recently ordered 2615 kit?
Your thread indicates that 2615 engines will benefit from this new technology.
Ricky
Huh,
You see, not beingh able to make big purchases for my car till after the wedding is a good thing. :-)
Will these heads also be going into 2056 kits, or just the 2270 and larger kits?
Zach
you guys got a set of this head combo for a 103 by 80?
waiting for the irs check.....
That's cool .... See I told my wife "head is good"..
Jake...You have me re-thinking my plans for a Suby conversion if I can get near 200 hp reliably from aircooled.
I especially like the flat torque curve and power at lower rpm!
You are doing wonderful things for the aircooled world.
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 15 2006, 07:39 PM) | ||
We do.... As we speak I'm assembling a destroked, huge bored sub 2400cc engine that will rev to 9,000 RPM with Titanium rods, lightened crank and the works for an 1100 pound, Aluminum bodied 550 Spyder replicar for a customer in the UK... The heads have over 90 hours of labor in their composition, with twin ignition and the works... We call it "The Mighty Spyder" and it'll be unveiled at the Classic Leman in France this July, and I'll be there to drive it! So far the power plots(3D models) for this baby tip the scales at 270HP! |
All 2270 and larger kits and ALL RAT ENGINES will be benefitting from these head developments, effective immediately! This includes the 2563 and 2615cc engine kits.
Sure we have a combination for a 103X80 engine, with your cam the 7456 heads would be optimum... The price of these heads will be staying the same, BUT a minimum of 10% more power will be gained (more like 15-18% net)
2056 and smaller engines are not targeted for these heads, these small engines already make incredible power with the current heads and will rev to 7K without any further mods.
Its that much more incentive to go MassIVe!
Ok thanks for the gratuitius plug there Jake but you didnt answer my Q.
Phew! Thank goodness I am spending all my money on a new garage! I'd be in trouble, wanting to buy one of these new engines.
Oh....
Well on top of installing seats with medieval practices (20 pound hammers) and making shoddy repairs to cracks, coupled to the fact that the heads are so imbalanced, they also had uneven chamber volumes by 4ccs!
reasons like this is why we are no longer rebuilding ANY heads, not even 2.0 914 heads... Those repairs took twice as long as it would have to modify a set of new castings.
There is a reason why MSHP went out of business 4 years ago.
BTW- the %K$ engine kits are shipping to Mark tomorrow!
You shipping heads to Mark Stephens?
I thought they are West Coast Core now?
Don
The customer bought these heads from MSHP himself 5 years ago.... The engine ran like crap so he parked it.
Then he called me.
Now he has 202 ponies, 20 more than he paid for!
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 16 2006, 08:45 AM) |
Oh.... Well on top of installing seats with medieval practices (20 pound hammers) and making shoddy repairs to cracks, coupled to the fact that the heads are so imbalanced, they also had uneven chamber volumes by 4ccs! reasons like this is why we are no longer rebuilding ANY heads, not even 2.0 914 heads... Those repairs took twice as long as it would have to modify a set of new castings. There is a reason why MSHP went out of business 4 years ago. BTW- the %K$ engine kits are shipping to Mark tomorrow! |
QUOTE |
Does Len no longer rebuild 2.0 914 heads? |
Jake my guy bailed on the new heads for now
So wait. What did you have to do to the old heads to rebuild them and get an extra 20 ponies? Or did you not rebuild them, just replace them with new castings. Or did you do something that you will now be applying to the new castings on the new massive engines?
Just a little confused.
New castings with CNC ports plus a few tricks.
What's a ballpark on the R&D cost and time to make this power jump?
Just curious. . .
-'Chung
Chung,
So far it's only cost us about 15K to do this, but we are not finished yet :-)
Mark, where did you getb the CNC info from, obviously it was an unreliable source- no one knows what we have in store with these heads but Len, Brent and the Hot VWs Tech writer...
Its not a big deal that he bailed on the heads, thats fine- we are making as many sets up as we can for the HUGE influx that the article will send this way, no doubt... They should be on the shelf in May.
BTW- This 2316 engine got it's original MSHP heads rebuilt by Len WITH some of the newest mods done to them, none of that was done with a CNC!
yet again, THESE HEAD DEVELOPMENTS WILL NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF MY KITS OR ENGINES!
I'm absorbing the R&D costs and the extra money the heads cost to give the customer more bang for the buck!
With these new heads and dyno results what HP do you think a 103 X 78mm is going to make now.
My guy is back on the fence again.
(44 webers, DTM, Nickies and a rat 9510 cam)
wow.
thats all i have to say.
b
Dollar to HP ratio... about $75/hp. Thats not too shabby.
QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Feb 17 2006, 11:11 AM) |
With these new heads and dyno results what HP do you think a 103 X 78mm is going to make now. My guy is back on the fence again. (44 webers, DTM, Nickies and a rat 9510 cam) |
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 17 2006, 05:52 PM) |
210, and over 200 Torque.. |
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 17 2006, 01:52 PM) |
Thats pulling the fan, through the muff... |
Oh and uh awesome werk Jake!!!! I'm gonna go look at my 36 h.p. Judson engine and cry now
This is just the tip of the iceberg.... Things have really been growing power wise, and effieicny wise with these head developments as of lately. The volumetric efficiency of the 2316cc engine went from 86% to a whopping 95% with the addition of these heads alone!
The 2270 also saw a boost, but it's boost was only 5% ebcause it was already super refined. This is why we say that the bigger engines will REALLY see big gains from these heads.
So more power, better MPG and cooler temps- same money spent.
Jake, any worries of the supply of your new castings drying up?
if they are from who I "think" they are from, are they still being made on a regular basis?
by the way, great news.....I'm still in the Type IV band camp
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 15 2006, 07:02 PM) |
One of the most recent cases of this was a 914 customer who is local to us that came to me with a 2.0 engine with Mark Stephens heads. Len had to do a lot of work to overcome what MSHP had done to the heads and one of the things he did was the only way the heads could be saved, it was also something he had been wanting to try for quite some time, so the change was employed on this engine. |
If the current supply dries up, we'll cast them ourselves.... Its just a thing!
There is also an alternative being worked out now that won't require a casting at all, some networking with some guys from other indutries has really paid off!
Everyone will see in just a month or two- we are wide ass open with it!
QUOTE |
Hey Jake, I know he was a competitor (at least they 'offered' the same product) but was there a time when Mark Stephens HP was any good? |
QUOTE (Brian Mifsud @ Feb 15 2006, 07:28 PM) | ||
Well, Jake, at 100hp per liter.. .now all you gotta do is get it to burn ultra clean.. then HONDA will be knocking at your door! Well done. |
Len and I have been working on cleaner burning, more effecient engines for the past 16 months.... This is in anticipation of some Nazi bastards migrating from California to other parts of the country and imposing their bullshit regulations. We WILL be ahead of the game when it happens!
These new heads, if equipped on an engine with a stock plenum and runners would not make any more power than the kit that Dave Hunt built his engine from. The ENTIRE intake tract is only as big as it's smallest orfice,, and the plenum is maxxed out as well as the runners at around 145 HP, these new heads won't do you a damn bit of good!
BUT swapping up to individual runner EFI would be sufficient.
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 18 2006, 03:35 PM) |
NO- He never was a competitor and never offered the same product! MSHP catered to price shoppers that wanted to cut corners and half ass projects, many times sacrificing EVERYTHING for a HUGE engine that made no power, but was cheap as hell... MSHP never did any testing of anything, thats why they went out of business when parts came back on pallets! |
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 19 2006, 01:47 PM) |
This is in anticipation of some Nazi bastards migrating from California to other parts of the country and imposing their bullshit regulations. |
No hate- just point blank, in your face, honesty...
These days with all the political correctness I find it refreshing when someone goes out of their way to be blunt- its appreciated!
I do the same, I haven't the gift, nor the time to bullshit someone or walk around on my tip toes trying not to hurt their feelings..
After all, I'm a former Marine, what else needs to be said!
Marine...that explains the intensity.
Personally I applaud your directness. I hate agendas and political correctness. But having never talked to you I don't know how you talk. But you write like you are yelling.
Be happy.
Smoke up.
I do yell- alot. Thats just because I am intense and because I fully intend to get the point across with no confusion.
In person or on the phone I am much less intense, but here on the net where there are way more wrong ways to interpret things than right ways I have found it a necessity to remove all doubt and be firm with posts...
Spend some more time around and you'll see that...people are used to it after about 60,000 posts to forums and newsgroups on my behalf over the last 8 years!
Good to know.
Glad to meet ya.
QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 19 2006, 01:47 PM) |
Len and I have been working on cleaner burning, more effecient engines for the past 16 months.... This is in anticipation of some Nazi bastards migrating from California to other parts of the country and imposing their bullshit regulations. We WILL be ahead of the game when it happens! These new heads, if equipped on an engine with a stock plenum and runners would not make any more power than the kit that Dave Hunt built his engine from. The ENTIRE intake tract is only as big as it's smallest orfice,, and the plenum is maxxed out as well as the runners at around 145 HP, these new heads won't do you a damn bit of good! BUT swapping up to individual runner EFI would be sufficient. |
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/product.php?productid=16670&cat=320&page=1
There ya go... Its the entire kit from fuel pump to pressure regulator and the ECU and the throttle bodies. It even comes with a Fuel map pre loaded into it.
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