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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ OT: The new "tuner" law
Posted by: Andyrew Feb 16 2006, 02:30 AM
My dad and i are leary of this new law that allows the cops to pull over any car that is "modified".
Does anyone know any details? or can someone post the actual law?
My dad thinks they can impound my car and crush it and i'll never get it back...
This is on the basis that they pull me over for no apparent reason.
ALSO, knowing that I will never street race, what if they catch me get on it a little, or throw some tire smoke..
Anyways, Im 19, and here are some obvious facts about my car (and soon to be car)
It will have subtle flares, but it will have 18x10's on the back with a lot of rubber.
Brakes look stock, fronts are painted red.
Fiberglass front and rear bumpers w/ (soon to be) lexan rear spoiler
Lights are stock
Front trunk has louvers, not entirely noticable, in body paint color.
Body is factory phoenix red (orange)
Mirrors un decided, but will have left and right.
License plate on both front and rear bumper.
Engine lid stock, can see chrome air filter cover (will paint) obvious sbc
Exhaust is dual, side exit w/ 2 mufflers, should be relatively quiet under normal driving.
Racing seats
Racing harness's
momo wheel, factory guages
Small tubes no higher than stomach (while sitting down) for long to door pillar bracing (follows seat lines)
Black carpet
Thats about all they can see..
Car is a 73, does not need smog...
What can they do to me?
Andrew
Posted by: sean_v8_914 Feb 16 2006, 02:38 AM
they will crush your car in CA if you get caught street racing. I dont know about just pulled over
Posted by: brer Feb 16 2006, 03:18 AM
I heard Arnold crushes them personally.
Posted by: sj914 Feb 16 2006, 03:21 AM
Here's some usefull info:
http://sromagazine.com/boards/f22-vehicle-laws-and-codes.html
Posted by: sj914 Feb 16 2006, 03:27 AM
Here's some more good reading.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/08/03/139317.html
Posted by: sj914 Feb 16 2006, 03:51 AM
I wonder what'll happen to all those cars that were done in Overhaulin. Gonna get crushed for lookin good.
Posted by: Twystd1 Feb 16 2006, 05:12 AM
Like Sean said.. In Cali... They can crush your car.
I am trying to hook up with the tow yard to get good parts before they crush em....
Then I found out there are 10 guys ahead of me trying to make the same deal. CRAP..!!!
Twystd1
Posted by: lagunero Feb 16 2006, 11:11 AM
I'm not a cop but like my parole officer says "a lot as to do with your attitude". Your car isn't street legal if it's carb'd but unless you live in a place where the citizens pay their good taxes to keep you kids in check, my guess is you'll be OK if they "only" pull you over to check you out. Definitely keep the front plate and put a muzzle on that thang!
Posted by: Brett W Feb 16 2006, 11:33 AM
Move out of that shit hole ASAP and drive what ever you want for a lot less than you do now.
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 16 2006, 12:14 PM
Someone please point me to the actual law that states they can seize and crush your car. The site pointed to specifys penalties for street racing (one of which is that the car can be impounded for 30 days), and that you must pay towing charges, and that the car will be sold at a lien sale if you fail to pay up. Nowhere does it say the car will be crushed (though it may well be if it fails to sell at a lien sale, or it may be crushed by the new owner).
These kinds of rumors have been spread around for years, and so far, none of them has actually shown up in the text of any actual law. When Smog Check II came out, several radio hosts were foaming at the mouth and insisting that cars as new as four years old could be seized and crushed if determined to be "gross polluters", when the law said no such thing.
Local ordinances against "cruising" and whatnot are common, esp. in the Central Valley. Modesto has had anti-cruising legislation on the books for years. These ordinances aren't necessarily legal, but until someone challenges them in court, they'll stay there as an excuse for local cops to harass citizens. However, destroying personal property is not something any local municipality would be likely to get away with for long.
An ordinance against a "modified" car is also too broad, esp. considering there's a legal entity (the BAR) set up to provide a service to "bless" cars with engine swaps in terms of emissions compliance. There are plenty of sections in the CVC that spell out *specific* modifications that are illegal, but one can't simply that a car is illegal because it's been "modified", only that it's been modified in certain ways.
No, I'm not a lawyer, I've just spent the time to read and understand the Constitution and many California laws. I'd advise everyone to do the same thing, rather than believe everything you read on the Internet.
Posted by: Andyrew Feb 16 2006, 12:25 PM
My car is FI, but I thought that didnt matter..
Thanks for all the reading.. but I want to know what james does..
and the actual laws that say what is illegal and not.
Posted by: sj914 Feb 16 2006, 12:32 PM
| QUOTE (lapuwali @ Feb 16 2006, 10:14 AM) |
| Someone please point me to the actual law that states they can seize and crush your car. The site pointed to specifys penalties for street racing (one of which is that the car can be impounded for 30 days), and that you must pay towing charges, and that the car will be sold at a lien sale if you fail to pay up. Nowhere does it say the car will be crushed (though it may well be if it fails to sell at a lien sale, or it may be crushed by the new owner). These kinds of rumors have been spread around for years, and so far, none of them has actually shown up in the text of any actual law. When Smog Check II came out, several radio hosts were foaming at the mouth and insisting that cars as new as four years old could be seized and crushed if determined to be "gross polluters", when the law said no such thing. Local ordinances against "cruising" and whatnot are common, esp. in the Central Valley. Modesto has had anti-cruising legislation on the books for years. These ordinances aren't necessarily legal, but until someone challenges them in court, they'll stay there as an excuse for local cops to harass citizens. However, destroying personal property is not something any local municipality would be likely to get away with for long. An ordinance against a "modified" car is also too broad, esp. considering there's a legal entity (the BAR) set up to provide a service to "bless" cars with engine swaps in terms of emissions compliance. There are plenty of sections in the CVC that spell out *specific* modifications that are illegal, but one can't simply that a car is illegal because it's been "modified", only that it's been modified in certain ways. No, I'm not a lawyer, I've just spent the time to read and understand the Constitution and many California laws. I'd advise everyone to do the same thing, rather than believe everything you read on the Internet. |
I've looked and looked, and it's not spelled out any where about confiscation and destruction of one's modified cars.
Andyrew,
Where did you and your dad hear or see this bit of information?
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 16 2006, 12:52 PM
| QUOTE (Andyrew @ Feb 16 2006, 10:25 AM) |
| My car is FI, but I thought that didnt matter.. Thanks for all the reading.. but I want to know what james does.. and the actual laws that say what is illegal and not. |
I do software.
I started reading the laws carefully in 1997 when SB42, the bill that originated the 30-year rolling exemption, first appeared. I've continued as the various challenges came up to kill SB42, including the one that finally did the deed.
The actual laws are (mostly) tied up in the California Vehicle Code (CVC). Reading the whole thing will make your eyes cross. Some of the laws, particularly regarding smog, are in the Health & Safety Code (H&S). You can find all of these online. The DMV website has links to many of them. Local ordinances are another matter, and you'd have to talk to the Modesto City Hall. They MAY be online, they may not. The text of most recent laws, and the bills that are currently being debated in the Assembly, are on the Assembly website.
The link posted above to that forum shows a sticky topic that reprints a CHP pamphlet that has a lot of the revelant CVC sections on what is and what is not allowed, and most of it is pretty much common sense. Things like color of lights, what lights, how far you can lower the car, how loud the stereo can be, etc. The penalties for most of these is a fix-it ticket, which means you have to show an officer within some set period (30 days, most likely) that the problem has been fixed, or pay a fine. I'm sure there's some escalation if you refuse to fix the problem, which may ultimately result in an appearance in court, and could easily turn into a contempt of court charge if you fail to provide a good reason to fix the problem. THAT would mean jail time and another (much bigger) fine.
Things like flares, mild lowering, a reasonable exhaust, etc., are certainly not a problem. If exhaust modifications were actually illegal (which they would be if "modified" were broadly interpreted), then Midas would be out of business, since they certainly don't use OEM parts to repair old rusty exhausts.
None of this really prevents some hard-assed cop from hassling you because they feel like it. There's often little to prevent that, unless the cop gets way out of line. I once got a fix-it ticket from a Mtn View cop because the taillights on my truck had faded to the point where they were pink instead of red. After I fixed it, I showed up at the Mtn View station to clear the ticket, and the chief was there and couldn't believe I got a ticket for this. She went: "oh, him" when she saw the name of the cop on the ticket. I expect he got an ass-chewing over it, which is really the only effective deterrent.
Posted by: Headrage Feb 16 2006, 12:56 PM
| QUOTE (Andyrew @ Feb 16 2006, 12:30 AM) |
| My dad thinks they can impound my car and crush it and i'll never get it back... |
It'll never happen...
Posted by: Mueller Feb 16 2006, 12:58 PM
Only 3 laws I know of that allow the police to sieze your vehicle:
Being a "John" (picking up hooker)
illegal street racing
and "sideshows"
Posted by: MikeP Feb 16 2006, 01:08 PM
If you are that concerned, de-tune your motor, throw some catalytic converters on it and go to the refferee at your local DMV, they will certify that your SBC is in the configuration offered in a stock vehicle from 1973 and is now in another 1973 vehicle. The state doesn't care what vehicle your 1973 motor is pushing around as long as it meets the requirements from that year. They will put a nifty little sticker on the door jamb of your car and it will forever after be your get out of jail free card when a cop pulls you over. That said, I've been pulled over in my v8 car and had the cop shake his head look over the engine whistle and tell me to slow down a bit then send me on my way. Not an uncommon occurace for v8 owners I'm told. It really is all about the particular cop and your attitude.
Posted by: mrdezyne Feb 16 2006, 01:11 PM
Sounds like your dad is the one trying to pull one over on you to keep you in check. "Son, them damn cops will crush that thing if they even think you look fast". 
Posted by: Mueller Feb 16 2006, 01:13 PM
| QUOTE (mrdezyne @ Feb 16 2006, 12:11 PM) |
| Sounds like your dad is the one trying to pull one over on you to keep you in check. "Son, them damn cops will crush that thing if they even think you look fast". |
nah, this sounds like a California law...see my other post above....in Oakland, they can and do impound cars for asking for a "date"....
Posted by: Headrage Feb 16 2006, 01:19 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 16 2006, 10:58 AM) |
| Only 3 laws I know of that allow the police to sieze your vehicle: Being a "John" (picking up hooker) illegal street racing and "sideshows" |
Add drug possession to that.
Posted by: LvSteveH Feb 16 2006, 01:21 PM
Street racing is a hot button topic in most places, and you will not find the general public very understanding about it given the many stories of races that ended in tragedy. If your vehicle is used in the commission of a criminal act, the protection of "personal property" no longer applies. I'm of the belief that just about anything is ok if you don't get caught, but if you do, step up and offer to push the button on the crusher yourself.
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 16 2006, 01:36 PM
| QUOTE (MikeP @ Feb 16 2006, 11:08 AM) |
| If you are that concerned, de-tune your motor, throw some catalytic converters on it and go to the refferee at your local DMV, they will certify that your SBC is in the configuration offered in a stock vehicle from 1973 and is now in another 1973 vehicle. The state doesn't care what vehicle your 1973 motor is pushing around as long as it meets the requirements from that year. They will put a nifty little sticker on the door jamb of your car and it will forever after be your get out of jail free card when a cop pulls you over. That said, I've been pulled over in my v8 car and had the cop shake his head look over the engine whistle and tell me to slow down a bit then send me on my way. Not an uncommon occurace for v8 owners I'm told. It really is all about the particular cop and your attitude. |
Catalytic convertors are not required for 1973 MY cars. Even if smog tests were still required for a '73, a cat wouldn't be required.
Were Andrew to follow the exact letter of the law to bring his car into compliance, he'd have to do the following: if the V8 is from a '73, he'd have to fit all of the smog equipment orignally fitted to that engine in the donor car in 1973. Catalytic convertors would not be part of the package (these didn't appear in CA until 1975, and weren't required in the rest of the US until 1980). If the engine is older than 1973, he'd have to fit all of the '73 914 smog gear, including EFI, the charcoal canister, and all of the vent hoses. If the engine is newer than 73, he'd have to retrofit all of the equipment in use on that engine in cars with that engine in the model year of the engine. This may include catalytic convertors if the engine is a '75 or newer. Once this was done, a visit to a BAR referee station would test and certify the car as being a XX model year car for emissions purposes ('73 or newer, depending on the year of the chassis or engine, whichever is newer). From that point on, he'd be subject to emissions testing if the engine is a '76 or newer, as the car would now effectively be a the new model year as far as the DMV is concerned. The limits used would be based on the year of the engine.
Since the car IS exempt in CA, you're in more of a gray area. The EPA doesn't care, as the car is more than 25 years old. CA law is more iffy. You're not required to be TESTED under the exemption, but a strict reading of the law states that you're not really exempt from the requirements, just the enforcement. The engine swap rules technically still apply.
Most of the CVC regs that will get you pulled over, however, have nothing to do with the engine or emissions, but are instead concerned with things like how loud the muffler is, what color your lights are, etc. As long as he's using a sociable muffler, and correct 914 lenses (Euro lenses are iffy, but likely to be OK), and isn't lowered so much that no part of the car hangs below the lower lip of the wheel rims (except the tires, of course), then he's "street legal".
Posted by: kart54 Feb 16 2006, 02:01 PM
Andrew,
You asked a very specific question. Let me give you a specific response. I practice law but this is not to be construed as legal advice of any kind.
They cannot seize and crush your car for being modified. If you have modifications that are outside of the law (which does not appear to be the case from what you have written). They will give you a fix it ticket on a first stop.
They may stop you more often because of the modifications just to check you out. They cannot look under the hood or in your trunk without probable cause that a crime is being committed. They will usually say "It's OK if we look in your trunk and under the hood right?" You are free to say no although they may try and put additional pressure on you at that point.
A clear violation of the law on most BMW's, Merecedes and Porsche's that I have seen is window tint in front of the driver's seat (Driver and passenger side front windows on 4 door cars and SUV's). alot of people do it and know that they are asking to be stopped. They will remove it once given a fix-it ticket and then put it back on once the ticket is resolved. Another is excessively dark tinting. The police must be able to see inside your vehicle from any angle if you have windows. but alot of people do that too.
I also don't know of one street legal Harley. Exhaust louder than stock and handle bars raised above the driver's shoulders are illegal in California but there are plenty of them around including Jay Leno's and Arnold's. Again, fix-it ticket if stopped.
Mueller gave you the reasons they can seize and impound your vehicle (not crush). Don't street race, don't go to street races, don't have any illegal drugs inside your vehicle (although that is a gray area I won't go into here) don't pick up hookers and don't rob banks or get in gang fights. Your young, if you give them an excuse or pretext they will pull you over.
Crushing is actually very rarely done. Instead the vehicle, in certain situations, becomes police property and is usually sold at a police auction. (Until a couple of large lawsuits came along this was a common revenue raising tactic by many local police departments in California. They would encourage someone selling pot or something similar to step into the seller's vehicle to complete the transaction or to smoke a joint, generally at a party, and then bust them and seize the vehicle.). This fellout of favor after the aforemnetioned lawsuits and the realization by departments that big drug dealers had caught on and were leasing their vehicles at full value which had to be paid off prior to the department making anything.
The above is not to be construed as legal advice, simply a statement of current law. No attorney-client relationship has been created or is implied by these comments.
Randy,
Ventura, CA
Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 16 2006, 04:10 PM
while on legality and 914's
are 5 point harnesses legal? they are NOT DOT approved, but approved by a higher sanctioning body (forget the name)
Posted by: TROJANMAN Feb 16 2006, 04:33 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 16 2006, 10:58 AM) |
| Only 3 laws I know of that allow the police to sieze your vehicle: Being a "John" (picking up hooker) illegal street racing and "sideshows" |
great, i guess i don't need to worry about the 20 kilo's in my trunk.
Posted by: bondo Feb 16 2006, 04:38 PM
| QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Feb 16 2006, 03:33 PM) | ||
great, i guess i don't need to worry about the 20 kilo's in my trunk. |
Keep it in the longs..
Posted by: KELTY360 Feb 16 2006, 04:49 PM
Can't store it in the longs, that's where I keep my rust. 
Marc
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 16 2006, 04:54 PM
| QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 16 2006, 02:10 PM) |
| while on legality and 914's are 5 point harnesses legal? they are NOT DOT approved, but approved by a higher sanctioning body (forget the name) |
This is actually an interesting question. It's not actually defined in the CVC. It only says you have to have seatbelts that comply with the requirements set down by the department, without explicitly stating what those requirements are.
Posted by: spare time toys Feb 16 2006, 05:10 PM
| QUOTE (MikeP @ Feb 16 2006, 02:08 PM) |
| If you are that concerned, de-tune your motor, throw some catalytic converters on it and go to the refferee at your local DMV, they will certify that your SBC is in the configuration offered in a stock vehicle from 1973 and is now in another 1973 vehicle. The state doesn't care what vehicle your 1973 motor is pushing around as long as it meets the requirements from that year. |
NO converters in 73 that crap started in 75
Posted by: Cloudbuster Feb 16 2006, 05:29 PM
http://forum.pcasdr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=742&highlight=harness
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 16 2006, 05:32 PM
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't consider catalytic convertors to be "crap". Out of all of the emission controls tried over this years, this has by far been the most useful. Modern 3-way units provide excellent flow, and reduce emissions by an incredible amount. They've improved substantially over the old oxidizing units originally fitted to (say) the '75 914.
Clean air is a good thing, and there really has been a difference made by the controls required over the past 30 years, as anyone who's lived in the LA Basin over that time will tell you.
Of course, I say this, and I drive a '67 912 that reeks of gas from open float bowl vents...
Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 16 2006, 05:34 PM
The CVC will only state so much, there are unique laws that are on the books in different municipalities. In El Cajon, CA you can have your car impounded and have to buy it back at market value for soliciting hookers. New law that was effected as I was leaving the area (no relation in topics 
)
This law will ultimately end as the drug one did as the po po are doing it kinda dirty.
Posted by: Crazyhippy Feb 16 2006, 09:14 PM
| QUOTE (lapuwali @ Feb 16 2006, 11:36 AM) |
| *snip* If the engine is older than 1973, he'd have to fit all of the '73 914 smog gear, including EFI, the charcoal canister, and all of the vent hoses. If the engine is newer than 73, he'd have to retrofit all of the equipment in use on that engine in cars with that engine in the model year of the engine. This may include catalytic convertors if the engine is a '75 or newer. *snip* |
This is 1/2 correct. Legally the motor has to be the same age or newer then the car. Cant do a super early SBC, has to be from newer than the car, and have all the smog equipment that came on the motor (smog pump, cats, EGR stuff, correct air cleaner setup, etc)
Reality is it is NEVER checked, even if you get pulled over, a street cop isn't going to know everything that came on the motor.
Dont sweat it, the cops dont want to deal w/ all the paperwork impounding a car entails, they'll write you for the easy stuff and move on.
BJH
Posted by: Andyrew Feb 16 2006, 10:03 PM
My main fear is of a cop that will get pissed or jealous at me and write up many claims and do everything he possibly can against me...
even though I am a very nice guy, especially to short term relations (Im a manager a taco bell... I know how to deal with an attitude the nice way..)
Thanks everyone for their input. I just hope that I dont get "caught up in the moment" and accidently race a viper or something..
because if I raced anything else.. It wouldnt look like much of a race (happened once...)
Thanks again!
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 16 2006, 10:39 PM
| QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Feb 16 2006, 07:14 PM) | ||
This is 1/2 correct. Legally the motor has to be the same age or newer then the car. Cant do a super early SBC, has to be from newer than the car, and have all the smog equipment that came on the motor (smog pump, cats, EGR stuff, correct air cleaner setup, etc) Reality is it is NEVER checked, even if you get pulled over, a street cop isn't going to know everything that came on the motor. Dont sweat it, the cops dont want to deal w/ all the paperwork impounding a car entails, they'll write you for the easy stuff and move on. BJH |
There was an article in a "ricer" mag about 3-4 years ago describing one guy swapping an older Honda engine into a newer Honda chassis. It had to conform to the smog regs for the newer chassis at the referee station. Perhaps this is against the letter of the law, but it's doable as a practical matter.
I'll have to look up the text, but I believe the law does state "whichever is newer, engine or chassis" determines the regs. Sometimes, it's nearly impossible to get an older engine to pass new regs simply due to the incompatibility of parts. This certainly wouldn't be true of an SBC, though. Hell, what really is the difference between a 1970 small block and a 1990 small block in terms of the basic bits, anyway? Probably not much...
Posted by: Twystd1 Feb 17 2006, 05:01 AM
I believe kart54 was spot on with accurate data.
NOW FOR A HIGHJACK:
By the way. In Wittier California, Buena Park California, Fontana California.
They can impound your car for illegal modifications only. (City codes)
They typically use it on ricers that are being idiots, or loud, or the cops just want them gone for X reason.
But don't think for a minute their aren't laws allowing states or municipality's to CRUSH your car for STREET RACING.
Here's some reading for ya.
They can’t take it and crush it huh….
Oh yes they can. They have and they do. Hang out in Long Beach at a LA Street Racers meet sometimes. It gets expensive around here.
LAPD Press release: Oct, 6th, 2004
In order to send a strong message to both the hard core street racer and our youth, the Los Angeles City Council enacted Los Angeles Municipal Code 41.70.2 (Nuisance Vehicles), to provide for the seizure and forfeiture of vehicles used in a motor vehicle speed contests and exhibition of speed. In short, the vehicles can be crushed if found to be a nuisance vehicle.
http://www.lapdonline.org/press_releases/2004/10/pr04499.htm
READ THIS:
In Los Angeles, for example, the police can confiscate street racers' cars and eventually crush them. "We wanted to make a strong statement that L.A. would not tolerate street racing," says Michelle Rodriguez, senior lead officer for the Sun Valley area, Los Angeles Police Department Foothill Division, who's been involved with combating the problem since 1996. "To racers, their cars are everything. If you crush them, that sends a powerful message."
READ THIS: http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030713-102221-6427r.htm
READ THIS: http://zev.co.la.ca.us/scripts/apr05/LA%20Muni%20Code%20racing.pdf
Look Close: In all cases where vehicles seized pursuant to this section are forfeited to the City, the vehicles shall be sold or destroyed.
How many links ya want?
And some city’s have even harder rules to comply with.
So potentially the following can happen. Based on the wording of Code 41.70.2
If you are charged with participating in a speed contest or a display of speed, you are being charged with a criminal offence, and you can go to jail.
That means the prosecutor must prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt... but the standard of proof for losing your car is much less: preponderance of the evidence. So even if you are found not guilty of racing or an exhibition of speed, you can still lose your car!
I grabbed this stuff of the net.. You guys make up your own mind.
It does happen. It is happening. That’s my 0.02
Twystd1
And Kart54 knows much more about this that I do from a legal perspective.
This is what i know from a street perspective.
Posted by: redshift Feb 17 2006, 05:16 AM
Hey! I know! I'll move to Calousbassas, where you can't smoke outside, or drive a car with an air freshener! (modded, you know!)
California, GET A GRIP... your legislators are foolish, and they climb the chain, to become FEDERAL LEGISLATORS.
I am about ready to hand you over to Mexico. I am convinced it's the plan anyhow.
M
Posted by: Brett W Feb 17 2006, 08:40 AM
I agree with Miles, what do you guys see as any good reason to live in CA. Move to a state where you have individual freedoms.
That said. They can't take your car and crush it if you are not racing. If they do get a lawyer and own the police department.
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 17 2006, 10:32 AM
Like I said earlier, local ordinances certainly exist, but I doubt they're constitutional. Once they're properly challenged in court, they'll probably be overturned. A few lawsuits against the city would put a stop to this, but it would obviously take money to pursue this.
Also, this is still about street racing, not just driving a modified car, which was the original question.
As for the California bashing, the quoted Washington Times article talks about a similar law in Virginia. Have you checked the law books in your state?
Posted by: efeinsmith Feb 17 2006, 10:51 AM
Oh the joys of California (and certain other states). When I moved from Texas to Georgia, I was in the middle of a kit car rebuild (Bradley GT-II) with a 4 cyl. Porsche engine. After completion, I registered it, but soon after, Ga. changed the law to require emission testing and the Bradley fell under the new law. When I sold it before moving, it had reached 25 yrs. old, so it was now exempt.
Retired to rural Alabama, which has NO inspections of vehicles (emission or otherwise), and to top that, if you build your own house outside of city limits, no building permits or inspections either.
I can understant that Ca. is auto mecca, but the gov't there is one huge pain in the butt. Personally, no thanks.
Eric
Posted by: Headrage Feb 17 2006, 11:07 AM
Hell, I'd love to get out of the state. Anybody in the Portland or Seattle area need a Safety Manager?
Posted by: Porcharu Feb 17 2006, 11:32 AM
| QUOTE (Brett W @ Feb 17 2006, 06:40 AM) |
| I agree with Miles, what do you guys see as any good reason to live in CA. Move to a state where you have individual freedoms. That said. They can't take your car and crush it if you are not racing. If they do get a lawyer and own the police department. |
Only one thing. My wife lives here, and we get free good child care from her parents (2 things.) Otherwise I'd be outta here 3 years ago. I still want to leave before the kid needs to go to school.
Posted by: wbergtho Feb 17 2006, 11:42 AM
"Mexifornia" is the only state in the nation where the cops will patiently follow a double homicide suspect at 30 MPH down the 405 for 60 minutes and at the same time pull over a 19 year old kid and impound his fucking car for having a loud muffler (as a stupid Harley growls by in the background)!!!!! I know a friend in Upland, CA who got thrown in jail for spray painting a small area by his pedal box while restoring a 911 in his apartment garage. A nosey neighbor didn't like the noise (compressor)and called the cops on him at 8:00 AM (I thought that wasn't too early). The cops showed up and saw him spray painting...AND GET THIS....called the Fire Dept. The boys with their big red trucks and asbestos suits arrive a few minutes later and start to investigate the "apocalyptic scene". My friend James gets irritated by the huge over reaction of the local law enforcement and Fire Dept. He gets cited with 4 violations and carted off to jail because they didn't like his attitude. NOW...all you other guys that live in a state other than CA...ask yourself if this is more likely to happen where you live. I'm betting 99-100% of all non CA residents on this forum will agree that this is a CA phenomenom only. Hey it's a beautiful state...there's alot of reasons why I still love to go there...but Jesus Christ...It's the most over legislated place in the world.
My 4 cents,
Bill
Posted by: MattR Feb 17 2006, 12:17 PM
| QUOTE (wbergtho @ Feb 17 2006, 09:42 AM) |
| "Mexifornia" is the only state in the nation where the cops will patiently follow a double homicide suspect at 30 MPH down the 405 for 60 minutes and at the same time pull over a 19 year old kid and impound his fucking car for having a loud muffler (as a stupid Harley growls by in the background)!!!!! I know a friend in Upland, CA who got thrown in jail for spray painting a small area by his pedal box while restoring a 911 in his apartment garage. A nosey neighbor didn't like the noise (compressor)and called the cops on him at 8:00 AM (I thought that wasn't too early). The cops showed up and saw him spray painting...AND GET THIS....called the Fire Dept. The boys with their big red trucks and asbestos suits arrive a few minutes later and start to investigate the "apocalyptic scene". My friend James gets irritated by the huge over reaction of the local law enforcement and Fire Dept. He gets cited with 4 violations and carted off to jail because they didn't like his attitude. NOW...all you other guys that live in a state other than CA...ask yourself if this is more likely to happen where you live. I'm betting 99-100% of all non CA residents on this forum will agree that this is a CA phenomenom only. Hey it's a beautiful state...there's alot of reasons why I still love to go there...but Jesus Christ...It's the most over legislated place in the world. My 4 cents, Bill |
half the people on the board call it home
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 17 2006, 12:20 PM
| QUOTE (lapuwali @ Feb 16 2006, 10:14 AM) |
| Someone please point me to the actual law that states they can seize and crush your car. The site pointed to specifys penalties for street racing (one of which is that the car can be impounded for 30 days), and that you must pay towing charges, and that the car will be sold at a lien sale if you fail to pay up. Nowhere does it say the car will be crushed (though it may well be if it fails to sell at a lien sale, or it may be crushed by the new owner). |
I dunno about specific statewide statutes, but in LA County they sieze the cars of ticketed street racers and crush 'em. Reports of such have appeared in the LA Times, along with commentary by representatives of the law enforcement community. They'd prefer the cars not be available to other potential racers. Parts ain't gonna come off the cars, either. They're in impound, and most towing companies aren't gonna jump off the gravy train to satisfy a temporary urge for a fast couple of bucks. The Cap'n
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 17 2006, 12:32 PM
| QUOTE (wbergtho @ Feb 17 2006, 09:42 AM) |
| ...It's the most over legislated place in the world. My 4 cents, Bill |
Spoken by someone who clearly hasn't spent much time outside the Wisconsin, or wasn't paying much attention when he was...
CA has nearly 40M people, or more than the population of most of the European countries. It it were it's own country, it would be something like the 6th or 8th largest economy on the planet. It's a big place, full of people, and there are no doubt all kinds of stories that will come out of that. Anecdotes don't prove anything. Pick anywhere in the world and I'm sure you could find examples of overzealous policing.
Sticking just to cars and the US, a number of states require a safety and emissions inspection every year on every car newer than some set age, and they still require a safety inspection on all cars, regardless of age. California has no safety inspections, and only tests emissions every other year. No test until the car is 6 years old, and no test if the car is older than 1976. Even Arizona has tougher emissions laws than that. So much for "the most overlegislated place in the world".
In the UK, you have to undergo a tough annual inspection that would fail quite a few 914s currently being driven in the US. Even surface rust on a structural section of the car will fail you. In Austria, as noted on another thread, you can be failed for running non-stock WHEELS. In Italy, engine modifications are simply forbidden, full stop.
Posted by: wbergtho Feb 17 2006, 12:33 PM
Didn't mean to stike a nerve with you CA boys. You still have to admit that your politicians have lost control! 
Posted by: JOHNMAN Feb 17 2006, 12:36 PM
Do they have the California residents march the goose-step yet?
How about the whole Sig Heil! thing?
Don't worry, it'll come.
Just wait.....
Posted by: LvSteveH Feb 17 2006, 12:45 PM
Gee.. who's a better governor Arnold Schwartzenmoron or Jessie Venturitable. Personally I'd move out of any state who's majority would VOTE these guys in. Then again, the whole political process is a joke.
Posted by: wbergtho Feb 17 2006, 01:07 PM
Hey Geek,
Thanks for the history lesson. I put down my straw hat for a while so I could read your "vent". By the way, I've probably been to three times as many foreign countries as you have (fly free) and have a very clear understanding of the demographics in CA. Thankyou. 
Posted by: WRX914 Feb 17 2006, 01:30 PM
Exactly what is a "nuisance vehicle"? That will be the contigent factor in all of this hub-bub. There is a little thing called the Constitution of the United States... something about you can not deprive someone of life, liberty or personal property without due cause. I say all of the "laws" are bullshit and are designed to distract the public from streetracing for fear of thier car being crushed. The fact is that this act is unconstitutional and can and eventually will stand up in court.
I won a lawsuit against the State of Illinois department of Revenue in the Illinois State Supreme Court based on pretty much the same bs. It took me three years to get my $$ back (which they ILLEGEALLY seized), but I got it. It is amazing what you can do with Larry Pozner and Geprge Taseff on your side!
Posted by: reedhmb Feb 17 2006, 03:22 PM
To bring this a little back on topic, Andrew you don’t have anything to worry about. There is no law as described. Just drive responsibly. You know what your car will do, no need to show off. The line I use when I get someone, doing a burn out is, “There is a time and a place or everything.” The street isn’t the place to do serious racing. And the parking lot of Taco Bell during a busy night isn’t the place to do burn outs
When I was your age my daily driver was a V8 Vega, 350, solid lifter cam, 12 bolt rear end, 4.56 gears, tunnel ram and nitrous. Had nice paint, I always drove conservatively in public, and while all the others were getting stopped on cruise night the cops left me alone. There were a number of times when some guy would pull up along side of me with his beater Camaro and try to get me to race. Nearly all of these guys wound up getting stopped, I just idled by as the hooker headers made the ground shake.
Wide tires or not, as long as your conversion is clean, and you always drive conservatively, especially in your own neighborhood, you shouldn’t have any troubles. Nice cars don’t draw the attention of the police nearly as much as a beater.
Mark
Posted by: Andyrew Feb 17 2006, 03:31 PM
| QUOTE (reedhmb @ Feb 17 2006, 02:22 PM) |
| The line I use when I get someone, doing a burn out is, “There is a time and a place or everything.” The street isn’t the place to do serious racing. And the parking lot of Taco Bell during a busy night isn’t the place to do burn outs |
Funny.... I work at taco bell...(manager, grave yard on weekends...)
I know what your talking about
Posted by: fiid Feb 17 2006, 06:38 PM
Now we've established that this law doesn't actually exist - err... I quite like living in California. I'm sure some of the other .. uh... 40 million people living here - like it too, or at least don't find it bad enough to leave. It's got some annoyances. Show me a place that doesn't have annoyances!
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Posted by: dan10101 Feb 17 2006, 11:13 PM
From the Dad's point of view...
Thanks to those who replied.
Especially the first link talked about what the policia are looking for when they inspect for modified cars.
Mark, I appreciate your words of wisdom as well as the others that posted. I am concerned that there are 'enthusiastic' men in blue that interpret the laws differently than others. I'm lucky that Andrew has a good head on his shoulders. He has a lot of respect for others on the road.
I do believe some muni's have created ordinances like LA and Sac that allow them to go the distance with street racers. Impounds and crushing cars as will.
My fear is that in a moment of misjudgment the officer will take one look at his age and the beast of a car he’s driving and determine that he ‘must’ be a street racer.
I’m probably just being a worry wart, but that’s my job…
(You would be too if your Son was driving a 914 with a V8 in it.)
DanD
Oh Yah, I like California too. No bugs...(I was going to say no snow, but it may snow tonight...)
Posted by: fiid Feb 18 2006, 10:46 AM
| QUOTE (dan10101 @ Feb 17 2006, 09:13 PM) |
| I’m probably just being a worry wart, but that’s my job… (You would be too if your Son was driving a 914 with a V8 in it.) |
That's true
. That's a lot of juice.I remember what I got up to in my Spitfire (which only had like 90-100hp) when I was 18 or so.
Good times - good times.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 22 2006, 09:29 AM
While we're on the subject .............
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/14217668p-15043650c.html
The Cap'n
Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 22 2006, 11:26 AM
ya have to register to read the article
Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 22 2006, 11:41 AM
dude! I wonder if they'll grab the Enzo!
Posted by: reddog Feb 22 2006, 10:39 PM
"NO converters in 73 that crap started in 75" 
Are converters std on all 75's?
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 22 2006, 10:59 PM
| QUOTE (reddog @ Feb 22 2006, 08:39 PM) |
| "NO converters in 73 that crap started in 75" Are converters std on all 75's? |
No. The California smog rules got a LOT tighter that year, so tight that it was impossible to pass without some sort of exhaust "cleaner". Most manufacturers went to oxidizing catalysts (HC -> H2O + CO2, CO -> CO2), but a very few went to thermal reactors, which used huge iron heat sinks to "burn" the exhaust and do the same reactions. Porsche was one of those, with the 911, which produced the infamous '75-'77 2.7s.
The 914 used a catalytic convertor. All CA model '75 and '76 914s have them. The CA-model 912E also used a thermal reactor.
Many 49-state cars also used catalytic convertors from '75-'80. In 1980, they became mandatory in the entire US, whether they were needed to pass the tailpipe tests or not. Quite a few early 80s cars can pass their smog tests w/o a functioning catalytic convertor, since EFI was common in those days, and the limits are just high enough that you can sneak under.
Posted by: reddog Feb 22 2006, 11:59 PM
Thank you
Posted by: dan10101 Feb 23 2006, 12:23 AM
a couple lines from the article.
-----------------------
"Under California law, officers can stop and inspect a vehicle if they reasonably suspect that the engine has illegal modifications.
Frost spent one recent afternoon patrolling the streets of Carmichael and North Highlands looking for the signs of street racing: a chassis that scrapes the ground, the throaty whirr of a wide exhaust pipe, and racing stickers on the windows.
At a stop on Watt Avenue, Frost asked for more than license, registration and proof of insurance. Like the other 130 officers trained by the Drag-Net program, Frost wanted to get a look under the hood.
He said the 1997 Acura Integra had an illegal air filter, its suspension was too low, and its exhaust system made too much noise. The car's registered owner, who was not present during the stop, will have to keep the car off the street until the state Bureau of Automotive Repairs certifies that the illegal parts have been removed.
Replacing a typical package of illegal modifications and reinstalling stock parts costs an estimated $2,500. "
----------------------
Does anyone know which law he is referring to?
Also, can they force you to open your hood without a search warrant? Not that you'd want to resist in that kind of a situation.
I'll be making some changes to my track car that is street driven. Remove the cold air intake do some stealth modificaitons that will help diswade the casual observer. Though it's not illegal to have a cold air on my car, it doesn't have a thermal switch in the box. I may even have to put the front liscense plate back on. I've never had it on either of the 944's.
Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 23 2006, 08:28 AM
Dan,
Do whatyou will, but I would highly doubt that the 130 officers were trained in recognizing what is and isn't supposed to be on a 30yr old sports car form Europe 
"Like the other 130 officers trained by the Drag-Net program"
I would love to see that training, "Make sure the charcoal canister is installed in front."
This is harrasment and eventually will be over turned I bet. Just having your car modified is no gaurantee of street racing. All of my friends had such things and none of them raced on the street.
I bet the industry that makes all of those parts is already lobbying to have laws like this thrown out.
As for the front plates, they are required for CA cars and are completely up tothe officers discretion as to whether to harrass you or not about it.
It could be worse:
Here in my new home of PA you have to have your car mechanically inspected bya mechanic every year. the problem is that the mechanic that is inspecting your car has a vested interest in your car not passing. In plain english, they lie to fail your car and charge you $300 for a ball joint that didn't need replacing. In my class there area at least 90 out of state folks and every single one had bad ball joints on their cars. Funny thing is that the oldest one was a 2002, and when I challenged the mechanic on one of their bad ball joint claims, they started to back pedal.
CA used to be like that with the smog thing before the test only thing came to be.
Trying to register a new car in CA that has been modified like the street racers cars has some chance of failure. Trying to register a 30yr old German sports car with all kinds of mods is easy as they have no clue
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 23 2006, 08:47 AM
| QUOTE (lapuwali @ Feb 22 2006, 08:59 PM) |
| The 914 used a catalytic convertor. All CA model '75 and '76 914s have them. The CA-model 912E also used a thermal reactor. |
"Also" could be a misleading term here. The 912e used thermal reactors INSTEAD of a catalyst. 911s of the same era also used a TR, not a cat. The Cap'n
Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 23 2006, 09:07 AM
I'd challange that. Freedom of expression, probable cause, lots of reasons to question the man.
I drove a 650HP Big Block 66 Chevelle everyday in the summer as my daily car. Gutted interior, 6 point cage, no hood, loud exhaust, dropped onto the bump stops in the front, arrest me Red, etc. I was pulled over and harrassed, but never ticketed. I didn't street race.
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Posted by: lagunero Feb 23 2006, 10:39 AM
yea Rick but when and where? The new"tuner law" sounds like it's more for stopping kids like Andrew than stopping an adult.
Stickers on the window? Well I'm taking the 914club sticker off right now!
Posted by: MattR Feb 23 2006, 11:23 AM
| QUOTE (lagunero @ Feb 23 2006, 08:39 AM) |
| Stickers on the window? Well I'm taking the 914club sticker off right now! |
Cops dont usually harass parked cars.
Posted by: nocones Feb 23 2006, 11:45 AM
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (lagunero @ Feb 23 2006, 08:39 AM) Stickers on the window? Well I'm taking the 914club sticker off right now! Cops dont usually harass parked cars.  |
Mmm... 66' Chevelle... My favorite Chebby
Posted by: Pinepig Feb 23 2006, 11:57 AM
| QUOTE (lagunero @ Feb 23 2006, 08:39 AM) |
| yea Rick but when and where? The new"tuner law" sounds like it's more for stopping kids like Andrew than stopping an adult. Stickers on the window? Well I'm taking the 914club sticker off right now! |
Not so true, they got my buddy Howard coming out of Intel in his TDI golf.
He's about 35, car is lowered with nice BBS wheels. Wanted him to pop the hood to check for smog stuff on a diesel. Morons.
Posted by: bondo Feb 23 2006, 12:19 PM
| QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 23 2006, 10:23 AM) | ||
Cops dont usually harass parked cars. |
Except Nathan's...
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