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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Sealing case halves

Posted by: akellym Feb 16 2006, 08:22 AM

I'm ready to put my case halves of my motor back together, what is the best sealant to use?

Posted by: Headrage Feb 16 2006, 08:26 AM

I don't know what others may say but I used Permatex 3H that Jake recommended in his rebuild video.

Wurked gud.

Posted by: McMark Feb 16 2006, 01:35 PM

Loctite 574

Very expensive, but works great.

Posted by: Eric Taylor Feb 16 2006, 01:40 PM

That 574 is all the rage with the 6 guys, aught to be good for our little 4's

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 16 2006, 02:08 PM

The best sealant I have found for the TIV case is Curil K 2- I carry it at my store as it is a German sealant that is hard to get.

QUOTE
That 574 is all the rage with the 6 guys, aught to be good for our little 4's

Huge misconception!

Thinking that way is similar to the "Bigger is better" way of thought and it's just not true... When I have used 574 engines would begin to leak after 6-8 months of service.

I have used literally hundreds of sealants on TIV engines to create the absolutely no leak reputation we have gained, Curil K 2 is the best case sealant I have ever seen, and its not messy to use or to clean up!

My sealants handbook is at the publisher now, 45 pages dedicated to the proper sealing of the TIV engine ONLY!

Posted by: McMark Feb 16 2006, 02:26 PM

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 16 2006, 12:08 PM)
My sealants handbook is at the publisher now, 45 pages dedicated to the proper sealing of the TIV engine ONLY!

*sets aside $*

Posted by: JOHNMAN Feb 16 2006, 02:28 PM

QUOTE
Curil K 2 is the best case sealant I have ever seen

Is that the greenish stuff? I like that too.

Posted by: MattR Feb 16 2006, 02:52 PM

QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Feb 16 2006, 12:28 PM)

QUOTE
Curil K 2 is the best case sealant I have ever seen

Is that the greenish stuff? I like that too.

Its a dark yellow/brown color. Not as dark as 3H... tough to describe, but its not green.

Posted by: JOHNMAN Feb 16 2006, 02:57 PM

QUOTE
Its a dark yellow/brown color.

Then is it the stuff that actually gets hard? That comes in a bottle with a brush attached to the lid?

Posted by: McMark Feb 16 2006, 03:06 PM

The green stuff is Curil-T, same brand, different product.

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 16 2006, 03:11 PM

It never dries and is a very pasty substance with a lot of wax content. The wax repels the oil, so this sealant is considered an "Oil barrier"..

It REALLY works. I just used it to seal up the case halves of a 40,000 buck TIV engine that I have been working on for almost 1.5 year!

Posted by: alpha434 Feb 16 2006, 03:29 PM

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 16 2006, 01:11 PM)
..... seal up the case halves of a 40,000 buck TIV engine ....

WHAT?!?!

Posted by: Britain Smith Feb 16 2006, 07:32 PM

I used Dow Corning product (gotta look for the exact name) that does similar things...never dries.

-Britain

Posted by: TimT Feb 16 2006, 07:39 PM

The Dow-Corning product is #730

It works very well for sealing case halves, etc. However at $70/tube its a silly product for a guy who builds an engine every few years..

That Curil is the schiznitz also...

or Yamabond

fyi:

730 Solvent Resistant— Contains fluorosilicone rubber, which resists swelling when exposed to fuel, oil, and most solvents. Nonrunning paste for repairing fuel lines and tanks, bonding components exposed to solvents, and making formed-in-place gaskets. May corrode certain metals (including copper, brass, zinc, and carbon steel).

Posted by: Britain Smith Feb 16 2006, 08:29 PM

Yep, thats the stuff.

-Britain

Posted by: dwillouby Feb 16 2006, 10:04 PM

Try Yamabond#4. Its sole purpose is that of a case sealer. Comes in a tube for about 7 bucks. I have used it for years on motorcycle race engines. Good stuff.

David

Posted by: alpha434 Feb 16 2006, 10:14 PM

What's in the yamabond.

We always use the loctite, for fours and sixes. But I think I might try some of the other stuff out there.

Posted by: Twystd1 Feb 16 2006, 10:20 PM

Whatever it's worth.

I used Yamabond ONCE once on a type4 ..

Never again.. It hardened after about six months and leaked in three differant places. WHAT A PAIN....

I assume that the case temps are differant than bike engines.
(truth is I don't know)

When I took the case apart. The Yamabond had lightly carboned up and wasn't pliable any more...

And I don't believe that engine was EVER overheated.
(don't know for sure)

This is just my experience. That don't mean it doesn't work..

Just not every time...

Now let's talk about the dental floss trick..
Jake you listening?????

Never again.... Curil rules.

Twystd1

Posted by: alpha434 Feb 16 2006, 10:33 PM

Wait! Dental floss trick?!?!? What?

Posted by: TimT Feb 16 2006, 10:35 PM

QUOTE
Now let's talk about the dental floss trick.

not sure what to say about that...Its not good practice now.. and it was a band-aid then?

Posted by: Twystd1 Feb 16 2006, 10:39 PM

Agreed.

The new guys..(Alpha) have never heard of it...

With the excellent machining available in So Cal.. it isn't needed.

Twystd1

Posted by: akellym Feb 16 2006, 11:21 PM

I found this at our local part store. Any thoughts?
I was thinking of try this, but Jake's stuff sound pretty good.

518 Gasket Eliminator® Flange Sealant

Forms a flexible, solvent-resistant seal that will not tear or decay. Seals to 300°F and fills gaps to 0.050". Can be used on flexible metal assemblies including aluminum surfaces. Easy disassembly and cleaning.

Typical Applications
Seals close fitting joints between rigid metal faces and flanges. Provides resistance to low pressures immediately after assembly of flanges. Typically used as a form-in-place gasket on rigid flanged connections e.g. gearbox and engine casings, etc.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 16 2006, 11:54 PM

While Kuril K2 is good, it may be difficult to find. Yamabond is good, Hylomar is good, and I use Permatex Ultra Blue a lot. It's forgiving of flaws in the surface, and seems to last well. I have a number of 15 year old engines running around that have it, and they're not leakers. The Cap'n doesn't build leakers. never has, never will. The Cap'n

Posted by: Thorshammer Feb 18 2006, 04:01 PM

As for case sealing:

I have used 3m 1301 or Yamabond, or Honda bond. I do not use Honda bond HT (High Temp) because it is much more viscous and when setting provides a much thicker gasket. As for Yamabond failing, I know that is your experience, but I have never seen it, even with engines that have been severely overheated. I use a motorcycle sealant every engine I have built over the past 15 years. They have all served me very well, and many of the engines that have found their way back to me for freshen ups, are still oil tight at the crankcase parting. Including my race engines, and Ed Givlers for that matter.

I would use what Raby says. He has built more engines than any of us combined.

Erik Madsen

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 18 2006, 05:32 PM

DO NOT SEAL CASE HALVES WITH 518! If you do you can forget EVER tearing the engine back apart! I live by 518 and introduced it to the aircooled world in the late 90s, but a HUGE mistake was sealing case halves with it, the second biggest mistake is using it to seal cylinders as it sets in a matter of 5-6 seconds and will create unequal deck heights every time.

I have used Hylomar before as well and Curil T and yamabond and about every thing else you can find...

All others are inferior in some way to the Curil K2...

Now the real trick is a certain item found in your medicine cabinet that will seal case halves with no sealant at all, it's wax covered and gets used in conjunction with K2 it's super tight!

Posted by: alpha434 Feb 18 2006, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 18 2006, 03:32 PM)
Now the real trick is a certain item found in your medicine cabinet that will seal case halves with no sealant at all, it's wax covered and gets used in conjunction with K2 it's super tight!

Is this another reference to the floss trick that I've never heard of?

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 18 2006, 07:51 PM

Floss has multiple uses.

Posted by: ventilator01 Feb 18 2006, 07:57 PM

Im will assemble my engine soon, can I use this curil k2 for more than the case? I have the bug me vol 8 video, and permatex is mostly used in the video (not on the case), but its not for sale (permatex) at aircooledtechnology.net, so Im assuming they no longer use it. Im trying to make a list of sealants Im going to need when I reassemble.
thx for any advice
steve

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Feb 18 2006, 08:27 PM

Jake: Tribond 1104?

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 18 2006, 11:18 PM

QUOTE (ventilator01 @ Feb 18 2006, 05:57 PM)
Im will assemble my engine soon, can I use this curil k2 for more than the case? I have the bug me vol 8 video, and permatex is mostly used in the video (not on the case), but its not for sale (permatex) at aircooledtechnology.net, so Im assuming they no longer use it. Im trying to make a list of sealants Im going to need when I reassemble.
thx for any advice
steve

The video is approaching 6 years old.... Then many of the sealants we now use were not available, or discovered.

My handbook will answer all the questions, and all the sealants are available on my store site.

A good rule of thumb is buy one of each sealant we list, every one we use is kept on the shelves and sold through the store.

Permatex aviation is a good default sealant, but is has been far superceded since the video was produced.. Aviation is designed to be removed after 1200 hours of service in light aircraft and it will generally start to leak/seep after 3-4 years of service on the TIV engine in my experience.

Posted by: pek771 Feb 18 2006, 11:29 PM

Gasgacinch

Posted by: Twystd1 Feb 19 2006, 02:32 AM

Wax covered stuff...

Only if ya know how to cut it in half.... LENGTHWYS....

Twystd1

Jake.. You gunna tell em???

Posted by: ventilator01 Feb 19 2006, 11:45 AM

QUOTE
A good rule of thumb is buy one of each sealant we list, every one we use is kept on the shelves and sold through the store.

Permatex aviation is a good default sealant, but is has been far superceded since the video was produced.. Aviation is designed to be removed after 1200 hours of service in light aircraft and it will generally start to leak/seep after 3-4 years of service on the TIV engine in my experience.

Are you saying to buy everything listed http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/home.php?cat=311 but dont need these three ->if I get the others.. aviation, hylomar, and curil T?

Posted by: KevinP Feb 19 2006, 02:35 PM

Jake,

I know you have used ProSeal while doing work in the aviation world, does it have any business on a TIV. I know it is hard to work with?

KP