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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Summit injector connectors
Posted by: yarin Feb 21 2006, 08:45 PM
Just tried these out:
they don't fit. the connector itself doesn't plug into the injector. even with the surrounding housing ground off.
oh well.. back to square one.
where do i look now? any leads to cheap injector connectors with some form of clip mechanism?
Posted by: Mueller Feb 21 2006, 08:52 PM
have you tried NAPA autoparts?
Posted by: yarin Feb 21 2006, 08:53 PM
I cut up an old stock harness and managed to salvage 3 good connectors. One broke off.. Does anyone have an extra stock injector plug or two laying around they are willing to part with?
Thanks
Posted by: Pinepig Feb 21 2006, 09:05 PM
I believe VW ( danm near anything after the CIS 90 and on ) uses the same injctor style, just go rape the whole harness off a Jetta at your local pick and pull.
Posted by: yarin Feb 21 2006, 09:31 PM
How about these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/bosch-injector-connectors-kit-4-DSM-RX7-200sx-CRX-VW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33553QQitemZ8040784235QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 21 2006, 09:37 PM
| QUOTE (yarin @ Feb 21 2006, 07:31 PM) |
| How about these? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/bosch-injector-connectors-kit-4-DSM-RX7-200sx-CRX-VW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33553QQitemZ8040784235QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW |
Just like the ones he had. L-jet, as are the VW ones someone else suggested. I have a bunch of the kind you need for D-jet. They do NOT clip on, as there are no provisions on the injectors for them to do so. Let the bidding wars commence!
Posted by: yarin Feb 21 2006, 09:47 PM
| QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Feb 21 2006, 07:37 PM) | ||
Just like the ones he had. L-jet, as are the VW ones someone else suggested. I have a bunch of the kind you need for D-jet. They do NOT clip on, as there are no provisions on the injectors for them to do so. Let the bidding wars commence! |
I ordered the ebay ones... they matched pics on another thread of someone who said they fit. I'd rather go with someone that uses clips.
Thanks
Posted by: lapuwali Feb 21 2006, 09:49 PM
http://www.sdsefi.com/injectors.htm
Lots of detail here, including photos of the injector connectors for both the harness, and on the injector itself.
Posted by: yarin Feb 27 2006, 09:42 PM
I got my injector connectors off ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8040784235&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AEOIBSAA%3AUS%3A11
here are my pics:
Attached image(s)
Posted by: yarin Feb 27 2006, 09:44 PM
its a really snug fit. the metal clips on there dont hold them in.
here is another thread about injector connectors:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=17321&hl=injector
so far so good!
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 27 2006, 10:17 PM
| QUOTE (yarin @ Feb 21 2006, 07:47 PM) | ||||
I ordered the ebay ones... they matched pics on another thread of someone who said they fit. I'd rather go with someone that uses clips. Thanks |
What part of "no provision on the injectors for clips" don't you understand? There's NOTHING on the injectors for clips to clip to. The Cap'n
Posted by: yarin Feb 27 2006, 10:35 PM
Never said there was. Someone on here modified the harness and drilled holes for another clip. Last time i looked at these injectors I saw a lip on them. Make your own clip. 
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Feb 27 2006, 11:17 PM
Mixing apples and oranges solves some problems creates others.
The D-Jet hardware relies on the rubber boot to keep the electrical connection connected and keep contaminants out of the connection. Teh boot is very important, yet it is the first part to fail.
The L-Jet hardware does a much better job of keeping things together and the connection contamination free, but both halves of the connection must be used. Its a system.
Mixing the two provides a connection that relies only on the spring strength of the wire terminals to keep the connection together, without the 'C'-spring clip on the outer housing having a matching part on teh fuel injector to mate with, as designed. The gasket inside the outer housing is not kept in compression because of the missing C-spring clip connection on the outer housing. Its a tenuous connection at best, while it may functoinally work, its not a very good solutiuon, certainly not long-term.
The best solution is to use the original parts. everything is available. 
Having a system that was designed to work together far outweighs any perceived benefit to mixing components.
Posted by: yarin Feb 28 2006, 11:23 AM
| QUOTE (bowlsby @ Feb 27 2006, 09:17 PM) |
| Mixing apples and oranges solves some problems creates others. The D-Jet hardware relies on the rubber boot to keep the electrical connection connected and keep contaminants out of the connection. Teh boot is very important, yet it is the first part to fail. The L-Jet hardware does a much better job of keeping things together and the connection contamination free, but both halves of the connection must be used. Its a system. Mixing the two provides a connection that relies only on the spring strength of the wire terminals to keep the connection together, without the 'C'-spring clip on the outer housing having a matching part on teh fuel injector to mate with, as designed. The gasket inside the outer housing is not kept in compression because of the missing C-spring clip connection on the outer housing. Its a tenuous connection at best, while it may functoinally work, its not a very good solutiuon, certainly not long-term. The best solution is to use the original parts. everything is available. Having a system that was designed to work together far outweighs any perceived benefit to mixing components. |
Good point, however the fit between the connector housing and injector body is very tight. It takes a significant amount of force to insert/remove the connector. I'm going to shrink wrap the connector as well. If it works it works, if not i'll find out the hard way.
Posted by: rdauenhauer Mar 27 2006, 02:15 AM
Why couldnt you simply use the 1.8 (blue injectors) in place of your 2.0 injectors and dial up the preasure?
Posted by: yarin Mar 27 2006, 09:56 PM
| QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Mar 27 2006, 12:15 AM) |
| Why couldnt you simply use the 1.8 (blue injectors) in place of your 2.0 injectors and dial up the preasure? |
I already had 2.0 injectors that i had cleaned and ready to go. If I change injectors in the future i'll go with a whole new design and non-barb style injectors.
Posted by: 72914S Mar 27 2006, 10:04 PM
I can`t remember the part # but I used bmw boots they have ears that let you pull them down over the injector for a really good fit. seem sthat they were about $8.00 apiece.
Posted by: DNHunt Mar 28 2006, 08:28 AM
This is one place I wouldn't cut any corners. Connections in the FI wiring harness need to be dependable. If there is a place where Murphy's law will apply it is here. If there is a tight but passive connections it will come loose. If there is a connection that allows moisture in it will corrode. If there is a connection that is not sealed it will get dirty. You will have continuity failures and they will happen at a bad time.
It is easy to get it up and running with bright metal connectors but, it will not run well over a long time if you do a hack job on the harness, MS has enough potential failure points (solder joints, DB37 connectors etc,) already don't add to them. Do a nice clean harness without splices and with matching components or be ready to try and troubleshoot in the dark and wet or in rush hour traffic.
I've been there.
MS has really worked well for me. I've driven it thousands of miles and the only problems I've had have been where I took shortcuts. Pay attention to details and don't cut corners or it'll bite you in the ass. Belive me, deal with this stuff in the garage before you get on the road.
You have the l-jet connectors, find some l-jet injectors. There are lots to chose from. Then sell the 2.0 liter injectors.
Dave
Posted by: Tobra Mar 28 2006, 09:04 AM
Why not switch to the bus L jet? Parts are more plentiful, sounds like a superior design for the connection, and should flow enough fuel, weren't the bus motors 2.0 and 2.1(Maybe 2.1 was the waterboxer) in displacement
Posted by: Jeff Nelson Mar 28 2006, 10:05 AM
I've been looking for some L-jet style injectors, because of the superior electrical connector, for my MS 2L project. I had discounted the 1.8L injectors as having insufficient flow. I may rethink that. Here are a couple of links related to that search:
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Injectors.html
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=98138
Since the 187cc/min injector (aka 1.8 injector) was used on the 912E, which is a performance version of the 2L motor (relative to a bus application), it's probably ok for a mild 2L 914 motor. These are likely high impedance (12-15 ohms) and are easier for the ECU to drive. Anyone got some handy that they would measure the resistance of to verify?
Posted by: yarin Mar 28 2006, 10:31 AM
Excellent points Dave.
My wiring harness is done right, you'll see pics over the next week. The injector connectors, the fitment seems good, its a tight fit. I can't visually confirm the level of electrical connectivity of the mechanical contacts, but i guess that will show up as a problem if it really is a problem. I didn't cut any corners with my install, so far I think I've taken every precaution from redoing the entire fuel system front to back, 14' of 7.5mm fuel injection hose, custom relay box enclosure, rubber mounts for brain and relay box, and more. The install should turn out very clean.
I couldn't find anything on I-Jet. Any links?
Posted by: lapuwali Mar 28 2006, 11:58 AM
It's L-Jet, not I-Jet. Bosch L-Jetronic is almost certainly the most commonly seen fuel injection system, since it was used on so many European and Japanese cars from the mid 1970s to the early 1990s.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Mar 28 2006, 12:29 PM
| QUOTE (Jeff Nelson @ Mar 28 2006, 08:05 AM) |
| I've been looking for some L-jet style injectors, because of the superior electrical connector, for my MS 2L project. I had discounted the 1.8L injectors as having insufficient flow. I may rethink that. Here are a couple of links related to that search: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Injectors.html http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=98138 Since the 187cc/min injector (aka 1.8 injector) was used on the 912E, which is a performance version of the 2L motor (relative to a bus application), it's probably ok for a mild 2L 914 motor. These are likely high impedance (12-15 ohms) and are easier for the ECU to drive. Anyone got some handy that they would measure the resistance of to verify? |
L-jet injectors use a resistance package in the system. D jet doesn't. I think we can safely say they won't work as a direct substitution on that alone, and it's also a reasonable assumption that the ECU won't drive 'em. Jeff Bowlsby has the correct boots, I believe, and the proper connectors as well. This is a case of trying to reinvent the wheel, with the decided disadvantage of not knowing what it does or what it looks like. The Cap'n
Posted by: lapuwali Mar 28 2006, 01:07 PM
The L-Jet injectors have a resistance pack because those resistors aren't in the L-jet ECU. They ARE in the D-Jet ECU, however. With Megasquirt (which yarin is using), the need for the resistors (these are low impedance injectors) is handled either with a resistor pack, or by using PWM modulation of the drive voltage.
D-Jet injector connectors suck big rocks. They're loose, and rely on easily split boots to retain them. It's a sucky design, and I see no reason to not improve on it. The L-Jet injector connectors (some of them, anyway) will fit, and actually provide a perfectly good seal. They don't positively lock, but neither to the D-jet injector connectors.
I'd agree that using L-Jet injectors and L-Jet injector connectors would be a better plan, but if you already have D-Jet injectors that are known to work, there's little reason to NOT use them with L-Jet connectors. You're certainly no worse off than you are with stock D-Jet connectors, and may very well be better off. I certainly know of people who've managed to successfully use them for quite some time. Since there are relatively few hose-barb injectors available, and D-jet injectors are readily available to someone converting D-Jet to MS, then using what you have presents a pretty strong argument. You're not re-engineering the entire fuel feed system, for one thing, just the electrical connection. Which is more dangerous, redoing the entire fuel system, or just the electrical connection? Which has a greater chance of serious problems if it fails?
Nothing gets my goat faster than people who insist that the factory is the sole holder of all engineering knowledge, and that no-one else could possibly ever do a better job than the gods at The Factory. Sometimes, the factory fucks up, and IMHO, D-Jet electrical connections are one such place where Bosch dropped the ball.
Posted by: DNHunt Mar 28 2006, 01:32 PM
James
I agree with most of what you say. Indeed, the factory is not the end all be all and the greatest potential for catastrophy lies with changes in the fuel delivery system. I agree that the D-jet connectors suck. I may be wrong but I still think that Yarin is going to have a problem with mix and match. I wouldn't do it but that is just me and I really hope he proves me wrong.
Probably the worst thing that will happen if it fails is he drops a cylinder until he figures it out. Not that big of a deal.
Dave
Posted by: rdauenhauer Mar 29 2006, 02:05 PM
OK so do I understand correctly : that the resitor pak is unnecessary in the D-jet intall because that function is handled buy the ECU and that 1.8 injectors (if you had them or had to replace injectors) would be a better match to a mild/street 2.0-2056 motor ?
Oh and in doing so have the bennifit of the superior mechanical connectors?
Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 29 2006, 02:25 PM
ray greenwood over at STF has written pretty exstensively about using the L-Jet connectors on the D-Jet injectors. it sounds as though he's been pretty successfull at it.
k
Posted by: rdauenhauer Mar 29 2006, 02:27 PM
Nice non answer there slappy 
Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 29 2006, 02:36 PM
what would you like me to say there sport coupe? the whole issue to me is the appearent unavailibility of serviceable boots, unless you buy one of jeff's harnesses. i've tried putting a L-Jet connector on a D-Jet injector. it goes on nice and tight and you can still slide the boot on. but are connections inside good? i suppose a mutlimeter and knowing what the resistance should be might be an indicator. i dunno.
k
Posted by: lapuwali Mar 29 2006, 02:40 PM
| QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Mar 29 2006, 12:05 PM) |
| OK so do I understand correctly : that the resitor pak is unnecessary in the D-jet intall because that function is handled buy the ECU and that 1.8 injectors (if you had them or had to replace injectors) would be a better match to a mild/street 2.0-2056 motor ? Oh and in doing so have the bennifit of the superior mechanical connectors? |
If you are using Megasquirt or any other PEFI, then using 1.8 L-Jet injectors on a mild 2.0 would work. 187cc/min should be plenty up to 115-120hp. If you're still using D-Jet, stick with the D-Jet injectors, as you can't compensate for the lower flow rate like you can with PEFI. The 1.7 D-Jet injectors flow far more than the 1.8 injectors do, and the 2.0 injectors flow even more, way more than the engine actually requires. However, the D-Jet ECU is set up to operate with these high-flowing injectors by using very short pulsewidths, and it can't be adjusted (for all practical purposes) to use lower-flowing injectors.
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