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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ suspension gurus

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Feb 28 2006, 08:35 PM

Alright, there is a lot of information (misinformation) out there about how low you can set the suspension of your car.
how low is too low?
how is the front geometry effected?
should the A arms be sloping down(outward)
level OK?
how about sloping upward (outward)

This is for aTRACK CAR and I want the car to be as low as possible without any idiosyncracies cropping up.

I know about shock travel and bottoming out so what ya got?

Right now I have the front suspension sloping downward (barely, maybe 2or 3 degrees)

What is the word.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Feb 28 2006, 09:23 PM

2 or 3 degrees is ALOT.
I strive for level A-arms. but I also have 21mm torsion bars so I really got to try to get the suspension to bottom. rear is about 1/4" or so mabe a little more higher than front measured at the lift donuts. Works for me.

Posted by: r_towle Feb 28 2006, 09:33 PM

with a stiff enough suspension, you can go so low that the a-arms get a nice shiny spot on top where they hit the frame...

Given that...its to low...
I have 23mm torsion bars, and bilsteins...its stiff.
I found the car handled better when I raised it back up and gave the shock a chance to actually do something...
Before that I was literally bottoming out on the frame...check it out with no bar in place...it will hit...

So, I did a setup reccomended locally by the regional winner for the past several years.
I believe it was this.
Measure from the top of the rim...to the lower lip of the stock fender.
2.25 rear 2.5 front.
It mad me raise the rear up one perch on the shocks, and crank up the front end a bit...
BUT, it was the best it has handled in years...

Good luck.
Rich

Posted by: J P Stein Feb 28 2006, 10:10 PM

I think it's more tie rods than A arms.....but, Rich makes a good point as the limiting factor there.

As the tire rod passes over center it stops pushing against your steering effort and starts pulling with it.....the dreaded "bump steer". The idea here is to keep it pushing against your efforts......thus the rack spacers & tie rod end extensions(normaly only used with raised spindle struts).

My last set-up had about 4 1/2 inches....ground to doughnuts...and that left me with between 2, 2-1/2 inches of shock travel which I used up regular like. This year I'm going to raised spindles (3/4in) & the ERP bump steer kit. I'll use about 1/4 inch to lower the car and 1/2 in for shock travel.

That's all *I think* I know about that.

Posted by: nine14cats Feb 28 2006, 10:23 PM

Hi Dan,

Check this thread out on roll center and the effects of bump steer.

Hayden from WEVO and Brad were talking about the lowered 914.....

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2304&hl=roll%20center&st=0

Bill P.

Posted by: brant Feb 28 2006, 10:47 PM

Dan,

on my old car I used to run higher than my buddy.
he had his really low and we were in the same class against each other.

every year at the end of the season he would go through his car and find his front koni's to have blown seals and leaking.

his shock was bottoming.

rubber bumpers could help, but the other thing you will find is that the A-arm hits the chassis.

you don't want to go anywhere near that low unless you have either A) cut struts/special length shocks or b)rsr-style struts.

too low and you don't have adequate suspension travel.
you become slower not faster.

brant

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 1 2006, 12:43 AM

so I really want to look at the level of the tie rods relative to level and not the A arms?

I have the rear just about where I want it but would like to get the front just a bit lower.
I need to check my tie rods.

Also while we are on the subject.
The front cover on the torsion bar tube. The one that gets removed to install a tow hook. How is it attached and what size is the retainer that holds it on?
Or am I looking at how it is attached incorrectly. It does attach through the front hole of the three that are on each side?
Thanks

Posted by: Jeroen Mar 1 2006, 06:27 AM

if you lower the car to the point where the a-arms are parallel to the ground, you'll see that it's rediculously low

user posted image

(and that is with 17" wheels and 215/45/17 tires)

And as mentioned in the thread Bill posted above, if your a-arms go beyond parallel on suspension compression, the camber will go more positive instead of more negative