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Posted by: tdgray Mar 4 2006, 07:50 AM

After the unfortunate incident this past week... now that we've patched things up. I thought maybe the X19 guys would come over and check the site out.

Step up and say Hi guys.

Clay invited them to a "club" function. Would be neat if they showed up.

Posted by: d914 Mar 4 2006, 08:00 AM

now remember some of came from that dark side,,,,had one 1977 I think, still had a 1300cc motor..best fun going slow I ever had....handled great,, only spun it twice!!!

Posted by: Jeroen Mar 4 2006, 08:17 AM

yeah... come out and play!

Posted by: michel richard Mar 4 2006, 08:34 AM

Posted by: DNHunt Mar 4 2006, 08:43 AM

Personally, I like to try flushing them out by being nice and talking about the things we have in common like disrespect from other car guys and momentum and midengine. But if that don't work we could go over to their site and dis 'em

Posted by: tdgray Mar 4 2006, 08:57 AM

QUOTE (DNHunt @ Mar 4 2006, 10:43 AM)

Personally, I like to try flushing them out by being nice and talking about the things we have in common like disrespect from other car guys and momentum and midengine. But if that don't work we could go over to their site and dis 'em

Deja-vu

Posted by: DNHunt Mar 4 2006, 09:07 AM

Guess I must have missed something. Did you guys already give 'em hell?

Posted by: tdgray Mar 4 2006, 09:09 AM

Ask Clay...

Posted by: DNHunt Mar 4 2006, 09:15 AM

Hey Clay WTF happened?

Posted by: maf914 Mar 4 2006, 09:17 AM

Where do the X1/9 guys hang out?

Posted by: Carlitos Way Mar 4 2006, 09:19 AM

I'm a former member/subscriber to the tony tomorrow fixers....

F ix
I t
A gain
T ony

Owned a 78, 77 and 74 X1/9

May they rest... er RUST in piece.

Posted by: tdgray Mar 4 2006, 09:25 AM

QUOTE (DNHunt @ Mar 4 2006, 11:15 AM)

Hey Clay WTF happened?

Some of the "Bored Contingent" posted on various forums while the club site was down, including a UFO site and the X19 site.

As in usual fashion with our "non-members" it quickly got out of hand with name calling and the like.

I know our guys were just having fun but they got severely offended (rightfully so).

Clay went in and apologized for our bad behavior and we have pretty much made up.

Actually they're pretty good guys... just bad taste in cars (joke )

Posted by: ! Mar 4 2006, 09:26 AM

Didn't involve me BTW.....

I was busy abusing my kids and neighbors....

Posted by: tdgray Mar 4 2006, 09:26 AM

Oh and here's thier site.


http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/

Posted by: Steve W Mar 4 2006, 10:51 AM

Hi everyone,

My name is Steve and I am a first time poster. I own a '74 914(2.0) and a '79 X1/9(1.5). Both are great cars. Unfortunately, both cars are of the road at the moment. The Porsche needs some rust repair and the Fiat is waiting for the snow to melt. I can't wait to get them both out.

I have been checking out your site for a while. It is a great source of information and you all seem to be a great bunch of folks. I am looking forward to hearing from you all.

BTW, I am from Enfield, CT. If any of you are planning any north east get togethers, I hope I will be able to attend. I am not sure the 914 will be ready, but I could take the X1/9 if nobody minds.

Again, thanks for providing a great site. You guys rock.

Thanks,

Steve

Posted by: ! Mar 4 2006, 10:53 AM

Posted by: Headrage Mar 4 2006, 10:58 AM

Sorry about trashing yer site the other day.

Aaron made me do it...

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 4 2006, 11:07 AM

Wait a second!

Wasn't it Aaron who had the "Real Teeners are Italian" banner a while back?

What a flip-flopper.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 4 2006, 11:10 AM

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 4 2006, 10:07 AM)

Wait a second! Wasn't it Aaron who had the "Real Teeners are Italian" banner a while back? What a flip-flopper.

we all had the banner.....

Posted by: skline Mar 4 2006, 11:23 AM

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 4 2006, 09:07 AM)

Wait a second! Wasn't it Aaron who had the "Real Teeners are Italian" banner a while back? What a flip-flopper.

He does wear flip-flops and I heard he swings both ways from Slits so I guess you could call him a flip flopper

Posted by: SLITS Mar 4 2006, 11:23 AM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 4 2006, 10:10 AM)

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 4 2006, 10:07 AM) Wait a second! Wasn't it Aaron who had the "Real Teeners are Italian" banner a while back? What a flip-flopper. we all had the banner.....

Whether we wanted the banner or not....damn admins

I personally owned two of them and found them to be as much fun as the teener with a better heater. They werent' that slow...

Posted by: Headrage Mar 4 2006, 11:37 AM

QUOTE (SLITS @ Mar 4 2006, 09:23 AM)

They werent' that slow...

When compared to what?

Posted by: Howard Mar 4 2006, 11:40 AM

Allan, get one and put in a six

Posted by: Headrage Mar 4 2006, 11:41 AM

QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 4 2006, 09:40 AM)

Allan, get one and put in a six

Wanna go to Willow next weekend?

Posted by: Howard Mar 4 2006, 11:43 AM

Sure, whazzup? Driving or spectating?

Posted by: SLITS Mar 4 2006, 11:45 AM

QUOTE (Headrage @ Mar 4 2006, 10:37 AM)

QUOTE (SLITS @ Mar 4 2006, 09:23 AM) They werent' that slow... When compared to what?

Your six....

Posted by: ! Mar 4 2006, 11:53 AM

QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 4 2006, 10:43 AM)

Sure, whazzup? Driving or spectating?

He's picking it up from the wrench....he needs someone to hold his hand and make sure he makes it back w/o breaking it....

Posted by: Headrage Mar 4 2006, 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 4 2006, 09:43 AM)

Sure, whazzup? Driving or spectating?

Victory Motorsports is delivering my car there on Friday. This weekend is the HSR West series. Just thought I might check it out.

Posted by: Headrage Mar 4 2006, 11:55 AM

QUOTE (SLITS @ Mar 4 2006, 09:45 AM)

Your six....

Only until Friday!!!

Posted by: Howard Mar 4 2006, 12:02 PM

Not sure, Allan. Sex, racing, golf..
I'm not good at any of 'em, but I'd still rather play than watch
Tlak to you next week.

Posted by: Headrage Mar 4 2006, 12:17 PM

QUOTE ("*" @ Mar 4 2006, 09:53 AM)

he needs someone to hold his hand and make sure he makes it back w/o breaking it....

I got somthing for ya to hold...

Posted by: XHead Mar 4 2006, 12:29 PM

Hi Guys,

As per the invite, I thought I would drop by to say hi. Also to offer thanks for the appology offer by Howard and others. As has been said already on our site, it wasn't necessary. We aren't going to tag your whole group with the childish actions of one or two.

As for cars, my first car was an X1/9 back in 1978. Had at least one ever since. I have had street toys and racecars and currently one of each. I have owned a number of different mid-engined cars as I have always preferred that layout. Right now there is an MR2 parked next to the X1/9s in my garage. Never owned a 914 but have driven bunches of them. Always like the 914 and know it to have a very different character to the X1/9. I could never get used to the floor pivot pedals.

Posted by: Headrage Mar 4 2006, 12:34 PM

Posted by: brant Mar 4 2006, 12:37 PM

Steve,

that is a great looking avatar!

do you have pictures or links to threads or blogs of your car?
sure would like to see more!

where do you race it?
what sanctioning body?
nice car!

brant

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 4 2006, 12:50 PM

QUOTE (brant @ Mar 4 2006, 10:37 AM)

Steve, that is a great looking avatar! do you have pictures or links to threads or blogs of your car? sure would like to see more! where do you race it? what sanctioning body? nice car! brant

Great. Now Brant's marking to gun X1/9s out.

Stop making a mockery of the Italians. They were on the German side too. Remember? They were the ones that surrendered faster than the French.

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 4 2006, 12:51 PM

Any X1/9 guys in Colorado? I've seen one driven by an "older" women in englewood. And I've seen more Alfas than 914s. But that's it...

Posted by: XHead Mar 4 2006, 01:53 PM

QUOTE (brant @ Mar 4 2006, 10:37 AM)

Steve, that is a great looking avatar! do you have pictures or links to threads or blogs of your car? sure would like to see more! where do you race it? what sanctioning body? nice car! brant

The car is an SCCA autocrosser, runs in D Street Prepared. I ran it for 9 seaons retiring it about mid season in '04. It has 20+ National Tour wins, about a dozen SCCA Pro Solo wins and 4 National Championships.

I have some pics on my Yahoo picture page at:

http://photos.yahoo.com/steve020361

I don't know if I can post pictures here or not but hear goes anyway.

This one is on the showfield at a FLU Club show about 2 years ago:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/stevehoelscher/ShowField3.jpg


This one is the avatar in full size. Taken at the Peru, Indiana National in '02.


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/stevehoelscher/PeruTour3.jpg

It was a VERY successful car.

I now run an '86 MR2 in D Prepared.

Posted by: XHead Mar 4 2006, 02:05 PM

OK, so now I know how posting pics works. Here are a few more:

FLU show field again:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/stevehoelscher/ShowField2.jpg

And a couple of pics of my street car. Its a '74, has a very trick 1300 in it, 5 speed - close ratio transmission, coil-overs, etc... lots of fun.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/stevehoelscher/track022.jpg


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/stevehoelscher/Registry74.jpg


And my D Prepared MR2. I only bough the car a month ago. I have only had time to look it over and clean it up before the first event a week ago. This pic was taken right after unloading it after I bought it. First chore was to get rid of all of those silly stickers.


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/stevehoelscher/P12900152.jpg


I have plenty more. I will try to get them up somewhere.

Posted by: Travis Neff Mar 4 2006, 02:22 PM

Welcome XHead! I see in your albums that you have a phantom grip installation? Can you give us the dog and pony show on that setup?

Rich is working with Phantom grip right now to see if they can make a unit for our gearboxes.

Posted by: Travis Neff Mar 4 2006, 02:24 PM

From your photos it looks like the two blocks has a pair of springs between them that push and lock the spider gears. I am not real knowledgeable on this style, is it like a locker with a click, click,click as you ar turning?

Posted by: brant Mar 4 2006, 03:15 PM

man those are some awesome pictures..
I still love your avatar best I think.

you can also post pictures directly into the thread over here.

back when I was 15 I really wanted an X1/9 and looked at a few before buying my first 914 instead.

my grandfather had owned a VW repair shop in the 60's and my dad had grown up working for him after school and weekends, so dad was much more inclined to fix up a teener than a fiat and thus I never did get that X1/9... but I still think they are cool!

brant

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 4 2006, 03:20 PM

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Mar 4 2006, 12:24 PM)

From your photos it looks like the two blocks has a pair of springs between them that push and lock the spider gears. I am not real knowledgeable on this style, is it like a locker with a click, click,click as you ar turning?

Yeah. The phantom grip is a hot topic over here in 914 land.

We can't get ahold of one. Driving a few guys here nuts.

And me. But everyone thinks I'm nuts anyway, yeah?

Posted by: Lou W Mar 4 2006, 03:32 PM

Welcome Xhead.

Great looking car

Posted by: Travis Neff Mar 4 2006, 03:39 PM

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 4 2006, 01:20 PM)

And me. But everyone thinks I'm nuts anyway, yeah?

To be precise, "Nuttier than squirrel turds"

Posted by: XHead Mar 4 2006, 05:41 PM

QUOTE (brant @ Mar 4 2006, 01:15 PM)

man those are some awesome pictures.. I still love your avatar best I think. brant

Thanks Brant. I like the avatar pic too.

I looked at your vintage racecar project. Sweet! Man that is going to be a very nicely turned out car.

Kinda reminds me of the car Hurly Haywood used to drive.

Posted by: XHead Mar 4 2006, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Mar 4 2006, 12:22 PM)

Welcome XHead!  I see in your albums that you have a phantom grip installation?  Can you give us the dog and pony show on that setup?   Rich is working with Phantom grip right now to see if they can make a unit for our gearboxes.

Phantom Grip. Oh man....

A few notes: The guys at PG are like.... just too busy to.... like.... return a phone call... dude...

It was torture getting them to make me a unit. I build racing engines and transmissions for X1/9s (other cars too) as a sideline. But I do more X1/9 transmissions than anything else. I got a couple of PG units, one for me and one for a customer's car. The first one was custom made for the X1/9 diff. I had to really beat on the PG guys to get it done.

The unit is very simple. As you can see its an aluminum block with a hardened coating. The block is divided in two with a set of four preloaded springs that force the two halves apart. The back side of those two blocks push against the spider gears. You can see in the photo that the side gears are machined so that their flat, finished surface is what the PG block is pushing against.

The LSD function comes from the friction between the PG block and the machined side of the spider gear. Its not a locker that clicks or clunks. Instead its basically a very crude clutch type. That is, the "clutch" action is between the PG block and the spider gears.

As for how it works. I know 914s are like X1/9s in that once you start making power you spin the inside rear tire off the corner. Putting a locker or clutch type LSD in an X1/9 really screws up the car's handling.

I have learned to set the cars up with a lot of front roll stiffness and a low rear roll center. This solves most of the inside rear wheel spin problem. However, as you approach 1.4 g its really tough to keep that tire from spinning, especially if the car makes good power.

The PG unit doesn't work as well as a Torsen (of course a torsen has its own unique problems) or a clutch type LSD. But it does work enough so if you set the car up right, most of the problem goes away. After some intial testing I got a number of spring sets in different weights to test and found a combination that worked. I also found that much of what the PG people told me was wrong.

I now know alot about these units so if you have any questions let me know I will be glad to answer them.

Posted by: Headrage Mar 4 2006, 07:10 PM

I'm glad you're here....

Posted by: tdgray Mar 4 2006, 07:34 PM

Welcome Xhead... great to see you here.

Phantom Grip... see there are things that we can learn from each other.

Just like Rondey said... can't we all just get along.


Great to have you...

Posted by: XHead Mar 4 2006, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (tdgray @ Mar 4 2006, 05:34 PM)

Welcome Xhead... great to see you here. Just like Rondey said... can't we all just get along. Great to have you...

Hey, I ain't blaming all you guys for a couple of jerks that happen to hang out here. Get a big enough group together and there's bound to be one or two that sneek in.

I got nuthin' against 914s, heck I think their kinda neat. But then I own a bunch of Fiats

Posted by: michel richard Mar 4 2006, 08:57 PM

1.4 G ?

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 11:25 AM

BTW folks "Xhead" is Steve Hoelscher, 4 time SCCA National Champion in that blue X1/9. Serious business.

I am Mac. I am the founder and retired president of 'SeattleX1/9', which is the Pacific Northwest chapter of a North American network of X1/9 owners clubs, whose "Xweb" forums your guys chose to attack the other day for shits and giggles.

I am glad to see folks here have so quickly glossed over it as one more episode from the 'bored contingent', which I'm sure it was, but let me explain something to you about the difference in nature of our forum - it is a place that since 1999 has been wide open, never even requiring a login to post, free to all, largely self policing, and in all those years I could count on ONE HAND the number of times that level of openness has been taken advantage of.

What your guys did may be just another episode over here, but it is a watershed sh*tty moment in our forum's long running way of going about things. I am sure some at our place have already put it behind them, but there are others who most certainly have not, and have in fact a very negative first impression of your "914 crowd" as a whole as a result of those individuals and how they chose to come and crap all over our forum for entertainment.

Let me tell you, I had a best friend who owned a jet black highly modified 914 with fender flares, shaved nose and all sorts of perf mods, and he and I used to go tandem cruising together, me in my sunset orange '75 X. Great guy, and I respect the 914 for what our cars have in common (largely under-credited small, vintage, mid-engine targa that's a hell of a lot more fun than most other folks will ever realize, and has enough faults to keep the dedicated owners going in circles forever keeping them on the road)

My point? I know, as do most, that "914 guys" are not bad, in fact are not that different at all from X1/9 guys. That makes it all the more hard to stomach this kind of BS coming from your quarters. I would expect some other car enthusiast groups to want to come crap on our hangout, but you?

I personally don't hold it against your site or your group as a whole, however, be advised that there ARE still several of our long time users who are not at all pleased with these events and will take some time to lose any hard feelings it generated.

I will probably be banning certain individuals from your group from using our forum. I know this is largely ineffective, so to those folks, don't bother proving something, you've put enough egg on the faces of your group of friends here already, who deserve it as little as our group does. I understand Clay will be in complete agreement and cooperation with me if there is ever even a remote repeat performance.

Anyway, for now, probably best for all to just let the dust settle on Xweb. Time and calm are the best menders of fences.

Feel free to email me if you have anything you wish to say offline

Posted by: ! Mar 5 2006, 11:37 AM

Probably more effective if you started your own thread as opposed to it getting buried in here.

Posted by: grantsfo Mar 5 2006, 12:46 PM

Xhead your car looks great! I may have missed it, but how much does that car weigh?

Posted by: Duane Estill Mar 5 2006, 12:52 PM

Hello from the X1/9 forum...I've posted a specific question about the 915 trans/final drive. This looks like the place to get that information..

Duane K Estill
Memphis, TN

Posted by: Howard Mar 5 2006, 12:58 PM

Mac, I posted this http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=42624 on your site in an attempt to laugh off this whole incident. Feel free to delete me as a member, no hard feelings. Likewise the xweb Frappr.

Hope at least your SoCal folks will join us for events.

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 03:27 PM

Again this illustrates a difference in perception of the 'gravity' of what took place.

An effort to 'laugh it off' is only going to work with those in our forum who took the antics as stupid as*holes who have nothing better to do with themselves to begin with, and would blow the whole thing off with or without a laugh about it.

To the others, to whom this whole thing was a really insulting violation of our space, an effort to laugh it off is likely to be regarded as further insult, or at the least, demonstration of a continued lack of understanding over why what was done was not cool.

I think the best thing right now would be for everyone who was directly involved in the "raid" to just stop posting on Xweb - for now. Let tempers cool. Let time pass.

I am not the sole moderator of our forum and I have not yet had the opportunity to get with our other mod to go over the whole series of posts and see how we intend to deal with it (eg: what to delete, what to let stand, who to ban, or not)

I realize that crap like this is commonplace in most internet forums, and so some of you may see us as overreacting to this event, but our forum has - by good fortune and good people - never experienced this kind of crap in our 7 years online. 914world.com has the dubious "honor" of being the first outside group to invade and desecrate our space in such a way.

We've been quite happy in our open-doored little corner of the net. The major concern at our forum now is that because of this, that sort of openness will no longer be possible. Even banning people is something we've never had to do really, the idea of forcing users to have logins to post goes so against our grain as to be almost unthinkable there. Hell it took us 5 years to be prodded into posting "house rules"!

Anyway, we are a good group of folks, not too different from yours. I am sure in time it will all be water under the bridge. While this is all still fresh though, my feeling is it would be best to just let the dust settle over there.

About posting a new thread for this, no need. People who were involved and need to see it will no doubt be reading "the X1/9 thread" in here, and I don't really need a grandstand front and center in your forum to say this stuff, just a little soapbox in this thread will do

Thanks, and may your X - er, 914 - never rust

Posted by: scottb Mar 5 2006, 03:50 PM

well this is gonna cost me here in teener town but i like the look of the x-19. don't know shite about them but i think they are alright....

the perception of the car in the public eye is the same as our teener:

1) POS
2) ugly
3) nobody wants one
4) only losers drive 'em
5) PITA to find parts and they rust like all hell

but we do it anyway because we all have brain damage. a tumor or some other issue that some of miles tin foil helmets may have prevented.

welcome to the x-19 contingent. a coordinated mid-motor targa event at an AX could be very cool....

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 04:00 PM

Obscurity allows a tremendous degree of freedom that notoriety takes away.

If being overrun by insulting crapflooders is the price of fame I am guessing our forum would prefer to remain unknown!

Peace, -Mac

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 5 2006, 04:04 PM

WOW.

The X guys seem pretty heavy handed. Way too serious for me.

Posted by: brant Mar 5 2006, 04:06 PM

Mac,
I'm not trying to open wounds.

You didn't ask anyone to come to your little corner and give you lip.
I hope this is the end of it.

(and hopefully people around here will bite their tongues and let this go)

brant

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 5 2006, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 5 2006, 02:04 PM)

The X guys seem pretty heavy handed. Way too serious for me.

yeah, but you're what, like 19 or something ???

*anyone* "considerate" will be way too serious for you ...

just wait another 20 years ...
Andy

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 04:11 PM

Alpha434, not intending to come off as heavy handed but you must understand that this is a first for our group as well as the fact that I am the founder of that forum so it's not really been that much "fun" for us, or me.

Catch us any other day of the week, and we're as much a good group of folks as the best of them

I agree with Brant. I felt I had to say something here about it, and now I have, and now I too would like to let it go.

After all, we're all here (in our various forums) to enjoy our (various) cars, right? So let's get back to that

Thanks & Peace, -Mac

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 5 2006, 04:13 PM

mid enginers unite!

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 5 2006, 04:15 PM

Hey Mac, I didn't get to post on the "X" forum. But I must say, I was a hoot. I compare it to a Halloween prank. Like placing a paper sack filled with dog crap on someones porch, and lighting it up just before ringing the door bell. Harmless prank, but folks get mad as hell. I guess you were the guy that felt he had to stomp it out.

I'm glad you came over and told our dad. I'm sure we'll be punished for it. But somehow, I think after the smell leaves your shoe, you'll get a laugh out of it when your standing around with the "X" guys bench racing, and swapping stories.

If this didn't happen we may have never had the pleasure of sharing cross posts. You can make the best of it or sulk about it.

Sorry, we were lost without or BBS, Hope to see you all at one of our events someday.

Posted by: Rand Mar 5 2006, 04:15 PM

Alpha, you are an extreme. I can sincerely appreciate what Mac is saying.

When you are looking for real, reliable info it is really nice to be referencing an information source that is pure. Some BSing is expected and enjoyable, but having to wade through tons of useless posts to find good info on a serious subject is..... fun for some.... and tedious for others. I respect what they have at the X19 forum. I regret getting caught up in a moment and posting over there.

I like the fun of the loose garage atmosphere here. I enjoy the BS too. But I really appreciate the guys who contribute more reliable info than just useless junk here in the Garage forum. I may be in the minority, but I think the Sandbox forum was a great idea. I enjoy going over there for BS. And I think it does help keep the garage more useful.

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 04:27 PM

Don't get me wrong folks, and thank you to those of you who are extending gestures of goodwill, but the flaming bag of crap analogy is just what I am getting at.

Our group/forum is by no means some pure repository of knowledge! We have all kinds of bizarre characters who post and any manner of random crap going on there all the time - but what we don't have are strangers running through and flinging flaming bags of crap at us for "fun".

Even at that, if it was a bunch of Camaro guys or something maybe it would make sense, but the most baffling part is it's come from the 914 crowd. That's what I think really makes the least sense, because we and our cars have so much in common...

I am not pretending to be any better than anyone here, just of a different way of thinking I guess, because to me, "fun" would be someone coming over and inviting our group to have a 914-X1/9 get-together - or even if you wanted to trash talk, to have done it in such a way that we can SEE that "good natured ribbing" was the intent...

Just coming in and crapflooding the place with blatant insults and running roughshod over our group of users is not the way to go about things, unless you are a zitfaced junior highschooler -- you're not, are you?

Anyway, again, water under the bridge, but "NEXT TIME" you want to have some fun with us out of the blue, make sure it really is fun - FOR US too - or else what kind of reaction do you expect?

Peace, -Mac

Posted by: grantsfo Mar 5 2006, 04:28 PM

SOME OF MY FAVORITE X1/9's

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 5 2006, 04:40 PM

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Mar 5 2006, 02:10 PM)

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 5 2006, 02:04 PM) The X guys seem pretty heavy handed. Way too serious for me. yeah, but you're what, like 19 or something ??? *anyone* "considerate" will be way too serious for you ... just wait another 20 years ... Andy

You know that age biasing discrimination is just as illegal as racial discrimination, right?

And god forbid I be hispanic AND 19. It'd be what? 25 years instead of twenty? Bull.

I never posted on the Xweb. I had nothing to do with being "inconsiderate" of another forum. And your whole post seems a little bit too hypocritical to me.

NOW. I'm glad that the administration on the rival forum has agreed to a truce. This thread should be finished.

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 5 2006, 04:42 PM

QUOTE (Rand @ Mar 5 2006, 02:15 PM)

Alpha, you are an extreme. I can sincerely appreciate what Mac is saying. When you are looking for real, reliable info it is really nice to be referencing an information source that is pure. Some BSing is expected and enjoyable, but having to wade through tons of useless posts to find good info on a serious subject is..... fun for some.... and tedious for others. I respect what they have at the X19 forum. I regret getting caught up in a moment and posting over there. I like the fun of the loose garage atmosphere here. I enjoy the BS too. But I really appreciate the guys who contribute more reliable info than just useless junk here in the Garage forum. I may be in the minority, but I think the Sandbox forum was a great idea. I enjoy going over there for BS. And I think it does help keep the garage more useful.

Thanks, Rand. I love you too.

Posted by: Rand Mar 5 2006, 04:55 PM

QUOTE

Thanks, Rand. I love you too.

Back off man.

QUOTE

I had nothing to do with being "inconsiderate" of another forum.

That's because you're too busy posting junk around here!

Seriously Chris, I do hope you make it to WCC. I'm looking forward to seeing what you are like in person.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 5 2006, 05:12 PM

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 5 2006, 02:40 PM)

You know that age biasing discrimination is just as illegal as racial discrimination, right? And god forbid I be hispanic AND 19. It'd be what? 25 years instead of twenty? Bull.

alright then, let me make this right ...

you're a bored 19 year old, WHITE, middleclass kid

is that better?

and yes, you WILL look at live differently in 20 years, trust me. i've been there. on both accounts ...
Andy

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 06:35 PM

Of all the garbage I am sifting through over there, I would be curious to know which of your users' IP this is:

BAMFH (Login BAMFH) *
from IP address ***.**.***.*** [[EDIT: On second thought, I'll keep it off your forum]]

Posted by: ! Mar 5 2006, 06:36 PM

We've had some problems with that screen name as well.

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 5 2006, 06:43 PM

QUOTE (Mac @ Mar 5 2006, 05:35 PM)

Of all the garbage I am sifting through over there, I would be curious to know which of your users' IP this is: BAMFH  (Login BAMFH) *

The users here do not know either...


we have suspicions... but we dont know, and havent been told.

Posted by: Rand Mar 5 2006, 06:47 PM

Great. If we start digging past friendly amends to IP searches, this isn't going to get better.

Posted by: tdgray Mar 5 2006, 06:54 PM

Damn it people... I can't leave you alone for a day

I asked the X19 guys to come over and say Hi... not to get in one of our shitstorms.

Say Hi... leave it be and welcome the good people in.

ENOUGH ALREADY. Please be mature and put on your best manners for our guests.

Again welcome all.

Posted by: Toast Mar 5 2006, 06:57 PM

I just did that.

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 07:07 PM

Sorry if that particular name struck some nerve of which I'm not aware ...?

I'm only about halfway through the pile of garbage over there, and already have about 15 banned IPs racked up, I'd say about 6 or 7 of which were such severely abusive/offensive/repetetive posters that I'd be half inclined to invite them outside if I ever met them. That's not like me.

Anyway, you're right Rand - if I have any further questions about these jokers I'll take it offline to Clay

Thanks again

Posted by: XHead Mar 5 2006, 07:14 PM

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Mar 5 2006, 10:46 AM)

Xhead your car looks great! I may have missed it, but how much does that car weigh?

Hi Grant,

X1/9s are heavier than they look. As you may know (as I see you are an autocrosser) in Street Prepared, you are limited in the amount of "lightening" you can do. I have worked very hard to get the car as light as possible but still it weighs 1925 lbs.

Posted by: michel richard Mar 5 2006, 07:18 PM

QUOTE (Toast @ Mar 5 2006, 04:39 PM)

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Mar 5 2006, 02:28 PM) SOME OF MY FAVORITE X1/9's A bug-eye Sprite behind a Fiat!! Hey Mac and Grant, your car kinda looks like mine.

no bugeye behind any Fiat in those pictures.

Posted by: Rand Mar 5 2006, 07:32 PM

QUOTE

Our group/forum is by no means some pure repository of knowledge!

My bad. Guess I was just envying the possibility that you had a higher knowledge to nonsense ratio than us. Alpha has skewed our charts. Thank you, I still have faith.

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 07:37 PM

Well all may not be lost there - looking around here - while I'm not sure who might have a broader pool of technical knowledge, I AM thinking you guys really do have more `ahem' "nonsense" than us!!

(j/k)

Posted by: Rand Mar 5 2006, 07:45 PM

haha...

There's a great deal of quality technical knowledge here. With 5000+ personalities, and growing.... There is amazing experience and wisdom. There are many successful, seasoned racers posting valuable experiences. And there are a few noobs (like me) who post more than all the experts combined.

The trick is hanging out long enough to learn who to listen to, and who to laugh at..... and who to laugh with.

Posted by: KaptKaos Mar 5 2006, 07:47 PM

QUOTE (XHead @ Mar 5 2006, 05:14 PM)

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Mar 5 2006, 10:46 AM) Xhead your car looks great!     I may have missed it, but how much does that car weigh? Hi Grant, X1/9s are heavier than they look. As you may know (as I see you are an autocrosser) in Street Prepared, you are limited in the amount of "lightening" you can do. I have worked very hard to get the car as light as possible but still it weighs 1925 lbs.

As I recall, both the 914 and the X1/9 were designed to meet a proposed roll-over test that the US government was thinking about making a part of federalization. That test never came to pass, but it effectively killed off the convertible.

If you think back, there were only a few true convertibles in the US market in the 70s. Almost all of those were older models that were continued.

So when you think of a car having to pass a roll over test, an integral roll bar makes a lot of sense. As a result, of trying to pass this test, the cars were made much more sturdy in comparison to older designs like the MGB, Spitfire, 850 Spider, Karmann Ghia, Spridget, etc...

Posted by: XHead Mar 5 2006, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (KaptKaos @ Mar 5 2006, 05:47 PM)

As I recall, both the 914 and the X1/9 were designed to meet a proposed roll-over test that the US government was thinking about making a part of federalization. That test never came to pass, but it effectively killed off the convertible. If you think back, there were only a few true convertibles in the US market in the 70s. Almost all of those were older models that were continued. So when you think of a car having to pass a roll over test, an integral roll bar makes a lot of sense. As a result, of trying to pass this test, the cars were made much more sturdy in comparison to older designs like the MGB, Spitfire, 850 Spider, Karmann Ghia, Spridget, etc...

You are correct. As far as I know, the X1/9 was the only production car designed to pass the proposed 50 mph barrier and 80 mph rollover standards. The 55 mph speed limit pretty much nullified that proposal.

As a result, the X1/9 is VERY stong, and quite heavy for such a small car. There is a lot of sheet metal in the car.

Posted by: jd74914 Mar 5 2006, 08:18 PM

I always wondered why X's are so heavy, that makes sense. Does that mean you guys do little in the chasis strengthening department?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 5 2006, 08:24 PM

hey mac,

Let it go. we/I did something childish. had some inappropriate fun. I came back and apologized, and i did not respond to the remarks in my apology thread... then you come dragging it back here with IP data and stuff from the login.

great. i appreciate you were upset - as you should have been. you have made you point, banned the offending IP, and posted it here. woohoo. great.

quit dwelling on it. make peace and move on.

as a member and admin here who has 15,000 posts (most tech based etc.... some BS) i ask you to accept the apology and MOVE ON.

let it go, move forward and lets have some fun with our similar cars.

hope to see you at a 'mid engine event' someday.

Feel free to post whatever you feel like... it wont be moderated.

Move on please and lets be friends
Aaron Cox

Posted by: Lou W Mar 5 2006, 08:32 PM

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 08:40 PM

As I hope you noticed, I pulled it down about as quickly as it had gone up, and, it was gone long before your reply.

As a mod I should know better than to post such, which is why, despite my frustration in particular with that and a few other of your users, I did remove it.

As a mod yourself, while we're on that note though, I would hope YOU would know better than to have actually participated in what your guys did??

Yeah yeah let it go, it was a lot easier to do that when I posted here BEFORE actually READING all the stuff. A lot of it was just childish bs, but some of what a few of them did was worse than I had been told, enough to really piss me off. Sorry!

Anyway, it's a dead horse now and we'll all get over it, on both sides of the fence, so don't sweat it

Peace, -Mac

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 5 2006, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Mac @ Mar 5 2006, 07:40 PM)

As I hope you noticed, I pulled it down about as quickly as it had gone up, and, it was gone long before your reply. As a mod I should know better than to post such, which is why, despite my frustration in particular with that and a few other of your users, I did remove it. As a mod youself, while we're on that note though, I would hope YOU would know better than to have actually participated in what your guys did?? Yeah yeah let it go, it was a lot easier to do that when I posted here BEFORE actually READING all the stuff. A lot of it was just childish bs, but some of what a few of them did was worse than I had been told, enough to really piss me off. Sorry! Anyway, it's a dead horse now and we'll all get over it, on both sides of the fence, so don't sweat it Peace, -Mac

stick around and share an E-Brew



X-19 and 914's - common interests, common peoples.

AA

Posted by: grantsfo Mar 5 2006, 08:59 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 5 2006, 06:43 PM)

X-19 and 914's - common interests, common peoples. AA

Except they dont have four verse six debates.

Posted by: 914-8 Mar 5 2006, 09:04 PM

Can you fit a V8 in an X/19?

I used to have an X/19, an '85 Bertone. It was a fun little car - emphasis on little! I had it at the same time I had my '74 914 2.0, and the 914 felt ginormous in comparison.

It was a fun, zingy little car. I'll see if I can dig up a couple of pics.

Posted by: jasons Mar 5 2006, 09:06 PM

Hello Mac, first of all welcome to the club. I don't really care about the X1/9 shenanigans either way. But, I had to go look at the trainwreck that occurred on your forum. The only criticism I would have for your venue is you don't have one of these.....





Maybe you so-cal guys should deliver some goodwill Peroni 6-Packs to one of the local X1/9 events. We could start a pay pal pool.

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 09:10 PM

We have several members who have done various swapouts, from mild to wild.

Yes a V8 can, and has been, stuffed in an X1/9, it just depends on how much modification you are really up for.

One of our more active members, Wayne Wright, has a 3.8L Chevy V6 in the mid of his X and it is a sight to behold, kind of like the DeTomaso Pantera of X1/9s.

Then there's the insane, like the guy who stuffed a 500ci Caddy V8 in his X - insane - had to chop it to pieces and you could probably make it do torque steer backflips in the air if you mashed the pedal

In my experience an X1/9 owner doesn't really need to go for a V8 to get balls out power the car deserves though. I've seen twin cam 2 liter Lancia or Uno Turbo 4 banger swaps in an X that would smoke damn near anything that could roll up on them...

PS to jasons, I'll take that criticism under advisement, as believe me, we really could use one of those too....

Peace, -Mac

Posted by: 914-8 Mar 5 2006, 09:21 PM

Here's some bad quality pics of my '85.

Sold it in '95, pre-digicamera days!





V8s in 914s are hilarious, but a V8 in an x/19 would be a riot!

Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Mar 5 2006, 09:25 PM

Wow, looked at the X1/9 site and boy those guys are touchy!! They love their cars like we love our 914's. I believe a lot of good will come from this. I never gave these cars a second look, but feel different now. Really like the track cars with fender flares, etc. I wonder if they have gatherings we can attend with our 914's??? We go to VW events and they love us, so why not attend their outings??

Tom
BTW: local MI/OH guys
The next Ypsi. Michigan VW event is May 20th & May 21st. (car show) We always have (20) plus 914's attending. This is our local summer kickoff event. Mark your calendar.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 5 2006, 09:28 PM

some pretty wild cars!

love the snorkel scoop!

Posted by: XHead Mar 5 2006, 09:30 PM

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Mar 5 2006, 06:18 PM)

I always wondered why X's are so heavy, that makes sense. Does that mean you guys do little in the chasis strengthening department?

Yep. The one thing you do not have to do in an X is strengthen the chassis. The car are very strong.

Posted by: XHead Mar 5 2006, 09:33 PM

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Mar 5 2006, 06:59 PM)

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 5 2006, 06:43 PM) X-19 and 914's - common interests, common peoples. AA Except they dont have four verse six debates.

No, we have 1300 vs 1500 debates

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 5 2006, 09:34 PM

QUOTE (XHead @ Mar 5 2006, 08:33 PM)

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Mar 5 2006, 06:59 PM) QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 5 2006, 06:43 PM) X-19 and 914's - common interests, common peoples. AA Except they dont have four verse six debates. No, we have 1300 vs 1500 debates

big 914 club joke...

you cannot turbo a 914....


does that apply to fiats ?

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 09:36 PM

914-8, that's a beautiful Bertone, and a very clean engine bay!

By the way, to show good faith, the 15 IPs that were banned from Xweb have just been re-released, all of them.

Everyone deserves a second chance.... Once Please don't let me regret it!

Thanks for the e-beer See ya around!

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 5 2006, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (Mac @ Mar 5 2006, 08:36 PM)

That's a beautiful Bertone, and a very clean engine bay! By the way, to show good faith, the 15 IPs that were banned from Xweb have just been re-released, all of them. Everyone deserves a second chance.... Once Please don't let me regret it! Thanks for the e-beer See ya around!

thats awesome.

mac, thank you very much

Posted by: XHead Mar 5 2006, 09:40 PM

QUOTE (Thomas J Bliznik @ Mar 5 2006, 07:25 PM)

I wonder if they have gatherings we can attend with our 914's??? We go to VW events and they love us, so why not attend their outings?? Tom

Actually, I was thinking of a mid-engined get together. X1/9s and 914s.

I would add the MR2 guys too (since I have one) but the MR2 club is really out to lunch. I tried hanging out there after buying my Too and I just don't fit in. Maybe if I turned my hat backwards and dropped my pants half way to my knees they would make sense.

Posted by: SpecialK Mar 5 2006, 09:41 PM

For the record, my 914 will have X-19 sidescoops mounted in the rocker panels (custom A/C condenser coil in the rear wheel wells)........SHUT UP!! It'll look good! .....and incidentally, the angle of the front side of the scoops matches the curve of the 914 door opening damn near perfect, and the outlet of the scoop angles back at the correct angle for a smooth transition along the aft part of the long.....so instead of trying to figure out which VW bug parts would half-ass fit our cars, the German car owners should invade the Italian parts yards for donor components. ....Caio!

Posted by: XHead Mar 5 2006, 09:45 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 5 2006, 07:34 PM)

big 914 club joke... you cannot turbo a 914.... does that apply to fiats ?

No. There are some wicked quick turbo X1/9s out there. I prefer my old school street car. Its a 1300 with BIG dual webers, trick head, light pistons, close ratio transmission, etc...

It very quick to about 70 mph. Suprizes a lot of other cars. So if someone in a nice looking X rolls up next to you at a stop light, most likely you can take him. But if he's looking for a run, think twice.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 5 2006, 09:46 PM

QUOTE (XHead @ Mar 5 2006, 08:45 PM)

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 5 2006, 07:34 PM) big 914 club joke... you cannot turbo a 914.... does that apply to fiats ? No. There are some wicked quick turbo X1/9s out there. I prefer my old school street car. Its a 1300 with BIG dual webers, trick head, light pistons, close ratio transmission, etc... It very quick to about 70 mph. Suprizes a lot of other cars. So if someone in a nice looking X rolls up next to you at a stop light, most likely you can take him. But if he's looking for a run, think twice.

Weber DCOE side draughts?

ive a 2L hot cammer with a short geared box....
pulls like a freight train to 80 and the the tall 5th kills anything over that....

all on 8.5:1 with dual downdraft webers

Posted by: Dave-O Mar 5 2006, 09:48 PM

Hi XHead,
What kind of hp do you figure you can get following the DSP rules?

Posted by: XHead Mar 5 2006, 09:55 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 5 2006, 07:46 PM)

Weber DCOE side draughts? ive a 2L hot cammer with a short geared box.... pulls like a freight train to 80 and the the tall 5th kills anything over that.... all on 8.5:1 with dual downdraft webers

The webers are dual 40 DCNF down drafts. The same carbs that line up in between the banks of cylinders on a 70s vintage V12 Ferarri.

A 1300 X motor has a 86mm bore and a 55.5mm stroke. Its very oversquare, like a bike motor. A good 1300, like mine, is a peaky little bastard. Its a dog until 6000 rpm then takes off and screams to 8000+ with little fuss. The Vtec Honda guys freak when they see this the first time. Its like they all though Honda invented rpms or something.

Posted by: Mac Mar 5 2006, 09:55 PM

Oh yeah, not to inflate the guy's legend (or ego) any further than it already is but did anyone yet mention that not only did Xhead pull 4 National Championships in his X1/9, but that he just bagged a 5th with his new MR2?

Time to update the signature: 1x4+1 Way to go Steve!

Posted by: XHead Mar 5 2006, 10:01 PM

QUOTE (Dave-O @ Mar 5 2006, 07:48 PM)

Hi XHead, What kind of hp do you figure you can get following the DSP rules?

I don't have to figure. The DSP car has about 250 dyno runs on it. Every thing on the motor was dynoed. Custom intake manifold (can be seen on my picture page http://photos.yahoo.com/steve020361 ) custom exhaust system were both developed from hours on the dyno. It also has a DFI programmable fuel and ignition system. Hours spent there too. I tuned exclusively for torque.

It makes 85 hp at the wheel and 95 lbs/ft of torque. Stock is quoted by Fiat at 75 crankshaft HP.

Posted by: Dead Air Mar 5 2006, 10:05 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 5 2006, 06:24 PM)

Feel free to post whatever you feel like... it wont be moderated.

[QUOTE]

Really?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 6 2006, 09:02 AM

QUOTE (Dead Air @ Mar 5 2006, 10:05 PM)

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 5 2006, 06:24 PM) Feel free to post whatever you feel like... it wont be moderated. [QUOTE] Really?

Mac gets a free pass as a fellow moderator/admin in his forum.


You, on the other hand, well lets just say that we are keeping an eye on you.......

Posted by: efeinsmith Mar 6 2006, 10:03 AM

While watching TV on Saturday, say an "interesting X1-9....unfortunately (for the Fiat) it was Mythbusters and they used it to test the story of two semis crashing head on and sandwiching a compact car between them, so badly that no one knew it was there until the trucks were separated. The myth was disproved, but the X1-9 was VERY compact (front and rear wheels about touching). The sad part was the car looked pretty good originally (it was donated by the owner who had already removed the engine).

Eric