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Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 12:24 AM

these flared fenders have the door opener indents built into the fenders.

i'm trying to figure out the proper way to affix these fenders but i'm just not getting it.

i was thinking of just screwing the whole fender over the existing one but something tells me that it isn't even close to how it should be done. LOL

the other part of me thinks these fenders are designed to be attached by completely removing the old fenders and installing attachment points, then screwing the fenders into the attachment points.

is this right?

HELP!!!


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Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 12:25 AM

#2 pic.


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Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 12:50 AM

3rd pic.


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Posted by: Andyrew Mar 15 2006, 01:06 AM

Cut that whole piece out.. about 1 cm out from the indent.

Andrew

Posted by: Mueller Mar 15 2006, 01:09 AM

those are "race" car parts.....they are designed to replace the sheetmetal, not go over it...kinda defeats the purpose

Posted by: McMark Mar 15 2006, 01:09 AM

Looks like the latter.

Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 01:15 AM

say it isn't so... Mark????

not the sawzall?????

so if i chop the entire fender off, minus enough to attach the new fender, i'm guessing i have to beat the existing sheet metal in about 3/8" so that the new fender is at the same surface level as the old???

is that how it works?

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 15 2006, 01:49 AM

Yes, and no.

If you DO do that (1/4 of an inch would be good..) then You run the risk of screwing up your door gaps.


I did NOT do it that way, and just attached mine to the fender, with lots of place to attach/glue the fender. Then sand down flat.



Andrew

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 15 2006, 01:57 AM

do a search on "Dzus Fasteners" ...

you need to cut out the metal fender completely so the FG piece fits perfectly into the void.
then weld on tabs to the metal edge to use with the dzus fasteners ...

like said above, those are "race" parts ...
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 15 2006, 01:58 AM

metal tab welded to the fender/frame ...




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Posted by: SirAndy Mar 15 2006, 01:59 AM

FG parts locked in with dzus fasteners ....




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Posted by: SirAndy Mar 15 2006, 02:00 AM

one more closeup of a sheridan fender ...



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Posted by: SirAndy Mar 15 2006, 02:02 AM

and this is what it looks like underneath, you can clearly see the tabs for the dzus fasteners ...

Posted by: wbergtho Mar 15 2006, 02:12 AM

Hey hey hey....Dr. Roger...(by the way...what type of doctor are you?) I have been there w/ my Sheridan body work. Before you go crazy w/ a sawzall...you need to understand that the existing Sheridan bodywork has to be trimmed back shy of the door indents and the rear tailight section. Also the front flairs should be trimmed back about three inches from the door seam. The body work should be glued on using a 3M adhesive and the rest blended and massaged...so everything is uniform and smooth. I get alot of positive comments on my Sheridan kit and I believe this is the way it should be done. When the glue is setting, a few screws straight through the body work (to hold everything tight is essential). Then the screws are backed out and thrown away. From this point a good body man can make it beautiful for you. The fender openings need to be cut away and discarded...but DO NOT remove the entire fender. You need about 40% of the existing fender to remain as a base to apply the Sheridan panels. I hope this helps.

Regards,

Bill


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Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 02:56 AM

bill,

might you have a closeup pic of the leading edge of the rear fenders as they are being attached?

i'm just trying to understand how to attach the door opener indented area of the fender.


oh, excellent taste in wheels BTW.

Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 03:03 AM

this last halloween i went out partying as "Dr. Love". Dr. Ruth Westheimer.

then recently, after a particularly fulfilling evening, my lady friend called me "Dr. Roger".

it's a new nick name but it's growing on me.

Posted by: Brett W Mar 15 2006, 10:11 AM

You could cut the majority of the fender away and leave about a 1 in overlap all the way around. Then carefully flange the down, so that there is a step down from teh steel fender surface. When that is flanged down, try to match the body work very closely to the step. Then glue your flare to the lower part of the step and fill the small gap between the body work and the steel fender. This would look super clean and it would be stronger.

Posted by: wbergtho Mar 15 2006, 10:55 AM

Dr. Roger,

I'll post a few pics later today...after I figure out how to get my stupid scanner working again! By the way, Brett's idea to step down the lip that the fibreglass sits into is a great idea. I had asked my body guy to do it this way and he told me the expensive would skyrocket. I just cut the fibreglass back behind the door handle indent (2 inches behind) Glued the body panel to what's left of the fender, applied temporary screws to hold it tight, and then off to the body shop for serious grinding, massaging, filling, etc. The step down lip is the best way...but my stuff hasn't cracked or fallen off yet.

Posted by: maf914 Mar 15 2006, 12:16 PM

JP did his installation as described. If I recall he left about a 1" flange of original metal and attached the fiberglass fenders using removable fasteners. If you search you may find the photos he posted.

There is definately a no-turning-back factor when you start chopping away the sheet metal!

Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 12:23 PM

bill,

so it looks like you used some sort fo panel flanger. is this correct?

i'm looking at a hand "deep flanger" from eastwood. this seems to give the deeper flange to give more screwing/gluing area of adhesion.

this is making the most sense for my application which is a street car/part time A/X er/road racer.

geez, i wish there was an easier way to do this (meaning not by hand).


the dzus fastener solution solution keeps making me think of me coming out from some restauraunt and finding my rear quarter panels missing.

Posted by: McMark Mar 15 2006, 02:00 PM

This will be nice for making a nice smooth transition between metal and glass. But don't be afraid to trim your FG as well. Just because it came like that doesn't mean it has be installed like that. I regularly cut big chunks off of brand new sheet metal pieces. Only use what works in your situation.



The only other tool you have is in your wallet. Otherwise, get used to manual labor.

Posted by: slivel Mar 15 2006, 02:17 PM

I have a Sheridan body on my 914.


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Posted by: slivel Mar 15 2006, 02:20 PM

My fenders have the 1 inch flange on them and blend into the door bulkhead.


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Posted by: slivel Mar 15 2006, 02:29 PM

Right side. Also used a small dzus fastener on the door bulkhead.


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Posted by: wbergtho Mar 15 2006, 05:08 PM

Hello Dr. Roger,

I did not step down my metal (although I think this idea is great). Creating a step down flange using an Eastwood tool will not get you a deep enough step because that tool is designed to step the thickness of sheetmetal. As you know, fibreglass is alot thicker requiring a step down equal to the thickness of the fibreglass...to do it correctly. You can modify the tool to make a deeper flange. Depends on how far you want to go here? My body guy rolled his eyes at me and said it would take a long time and add over $1000 to my bill if that's what I wanted. He talked me into cutting off the door handle indents on the fibreglass and then fitting the Sheridan rear quarters directly over the original metal fenders...leaving about 3" of exposed original bodywork. This allows you some extra room to fill and blend. Of course the fibreglass tapers a bit after sanding..just make sure you have a 1-1 1/2" of bonded fibreglass all around the perimeter. You do the same thing with the front flaires. You cut off about 2+ inches of the Sheridan fenders along the perimeter of the front door gap. This will allow enough spacing to effectively taper & fill in order to create a continuous smooth flowing look right into the original metal. The 2 inches in front of your door gap and the 2-3" inches of space surrounding your indented door handle area will be original sheet metal. I have a few pics I can send you...but they are not digital and have to be scanned. Problem is my scanner software went down. I'll shoot these pics off as soon as it is back up. My body work hasn't cracked or failed me in any way and it's been bonded to my car for almost three years.

Regards,

Bill


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Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 05:18 PM

wow bill,

that's exactly what i needed to know.

which adhesive did you use???
are your fenders being held on 100% by adhesive or is there a combo of screws and adhesive?

i ask only because i was thinking of counter sinking the fenders and screwing as a backup measure.


dang you guys kick some serious @ss!!!! THANKS!

Posted by: byndbad914 Mar 15 2006, 05:39 PM

My fenders... I trimmed the edges to perfectly match the slope of the original door jamb and laid the fiberglass right over the original fender. I have about a 3" section of the old fender that I attached the Dzus wires to. I did have to cut out the back edge of the pocket in the factory fender to get it to fit right.

You don't have to completely remove the fender to put the glass work on as I didn't want to have to go back and weld in a bunch of mount tabs when I could just drill the fender and rivet the wires to it.

btw Steve - love your car - saw it at Willow a couple years ago (I immediately recognize any fellow Sheridan kit owner) and great work...


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Posted by: byndbad914 Mar 15 2006, 05:41 PM

I trimmed the lips off unlike Steve, but that is just personal preference. My door gaps worked out better doing it that way...

going back to your first post, your "lips" are already gone as well. I would suggest lining the fender up (since it has been cut already) by eyeballing the fender opening to the tire and getting that centered. Then, see if you can trim that front edge to fit, or maybe you want to cut back a ways and blend in with bodywork...

maybe I read through too quickly and missed it - but do you intend to permanently fix these or Dzus them?


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Posted by: wbergtho Mar 15 2006, 05:54 PM

Message for the "Good Dr.",

Roger, I used the screws only to help snug the fibreglass to the metal while the adhesive set. The next day I discarded them into the trash. The entire Sheridan body work is bonded w/out any screws. I'm afraid you may get pops (like drywall scew heads popping). The adhesive is a special 2 part adhesive (expensive) made by 3M. Go to any good autobody supply shop. There is a special gun they rent/sell you for its application. There may be other space aged adhesives out there that will work...but as always...I did alot of research before using just any old glue. It has micro particles in the adhesive to keep the adhesive from entirely squeezing out of the way when you apply pressure (screws). It is very strong stuff. You could glue a hook onto your car and dangle it from a crane 24 hrs later.

Bill


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Posted by: SirAndy Mar 15 2006, 06:05 PM

don't! it *will* crack if you do both, adhesive and screws/rivets ...

the FG to metal adhesive these days is stronger than welding!

ask scott at yeamans autobody for the exact stuff they use ...
Andy

Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 15 2006, 07:40 PM

does anyone see any reason why i shouldn't glue the FG fender to the underside of the remaining 2" of perimeter steel? (by leaving a few inches of steel fender around the circumference)

this could potentially eliminate feathering down the FG to match the steel fenders.

Posted by: wbergtho Mar 15 2006, 09:25 PM

Dr. Roger,

I understand that you are trying to avoid grinding your FG to a taper...but if you have at least 1" of adhesive contact under 1/8" thick or thicker fibreglass you'll be just fine. You definitely want to avoid grinding down 90% of the contact area. Something tells me the FG fenders won't fit as well on the inside lip of the existing sheetmetal as opposed to the outside. These flairs were designed and molded to fit right over the existing body work.