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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ OT: Backyard metal foundry almost done :)
Posted by: Mueller Mar 20 2006, 09:56 AM
The burner is finished, I got the plans from http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/index.html
It's a pretty simple propane burner, built from steel pipe for gas lines....cost a few bucks to make (the regulator with gauge cost about $40)
I hope to be melting some aluminum and brass sometime this week....not as loud as I thougt it would be, but it does make some noise <!-- emo&:D -->
<!-- endemo -->
So far my "donor" aluminum scrap will come from some old used 2.0 pistons, a 914 steering rack, possibly an old 15x7 Phonedial that had a run in with a curb...of course I still don't know what the heck I am going to attept to make...
The neighbors are nervous 
Posted by: URY914 Mar 20 2006, 10:05 AM
Looks like a bigass crack pipe. You better be careful.
Make some outside door handle flappers. 
Posted by: Dr Evil Mar 20 2006, 10:56 AM
I can't wait to have a house some day so I can make my neighbors nervous with my smelting, welding, cooking bio diesel, etc.
Lead the way, Mike
Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 20 2006, 10:58 AM
fog light grills!
Posted by: Mueller Mar 20 2006, 11:11 AM
| QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 20 2006, 09:58 AM) |
| fog light grills! |
I think I'll start off with parts that are a "little" less detailed
those would be a PITA to sandcast, and building a mold for a diecast would be out of my abilities
Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 20 2006, 11:12 AM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 20 2006, 10:11 AM) | ||
I think I'll start off with parts that are a "little" less detailed those would be a PITA to sandcast, and building a mold for a diecast would be out of my abilities |
is mueller chickening out
Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 20 2006, 11:15 AM
so mike,.....
aren't you supposed to be working on the 914 or turbo volvo projects???
the offer of a helping hand still stands. 
Posted by: Mueller Mar 20 2006, 11:23 AM
| QUOTE (Dr. Roger @ Mar 20 2006, 10:15 AM) |
| so mike,..... aren't you supposed to be working on the 914 or turbo volvo projects??? the offer of a helping hand still stands. |
I need to remove mine or find a set or rear trailing arms to get powdercoated...got all the front parts ready, just too lazy to drop the rear suspension (and still trying to figure out what color(s) I'll be using..........
Posted by: McMark Mar 20 2006, 11:24 AM
I have three sets. Taking up room in my garage. 
Posted by: davep Mar 20 2006, 11:30 AM
I hear Jake needs a foundry to cast some badass heads. JK
I'd be a little concerned about the aluminum you are using. There are so many alloys designed for so many properties. I don't know if what you are planning to use is the best for your casting process. Anyway, you can make some parts but I'd guess that at the start they should be mostly decorative parts.
Maybe start by pouring some ingots for later use. Try machining / cutting a few and checking the quality of the casting.
And hey, go for it. We are rooting for you! We need a Mueller Fan Club smilie.
Posted by: Mueller Mar 20 2006, 11:39 AM
| QUOTE (davep @ Mar 20 2006, 10:30 AM) |
| I hear Jake needs a foundry to cast some badass heads. JK I'd be a little concerned about the aluminum you are using. There are so many alloys designed for so many properties. I don't know if what you are planning to use is the best for your casting process. Anyway, you can make some parts but I'd guess that at the start they should be mostly decorative parts. Maybe start by pouring some ingots for later use. Try machining / cutting a few and checking the quality of the casting. And hey, go for it. We are rooting for you! We need a Mueller Fan Club smilie. |
trust me, new heads are on the wish list.....chances are they'll stay on the wish list, but hey, it's a dream
for learning and testing the patterns and such, mixing of the alloys should be fine (as long as no zinc or magnesium gets thrown into the mix)
356 ingots are available for when I get serious and need good clean aluminum.....
I already have material for sandcasting (petrobond) and have read a few books on investment casting as well as lost foam and other methods....got to try 'em all....
Posted by: davep Mar 20 2006, 12:05 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 20 2006, 09:39 AM) |
| 356 ingots are available for when I get serious and need good clean aluminum..... |
The old 356's are mostly steel, and the aluminum ones are really valuable. Hate to see you melt then down.
I wonder if they used 356 alloy on any 356 chassis???
Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 20 2006, 12:16 PM
Mueller, I did alot of casting in HS, aluminum, silver, bronze etc.
For the fog lite grills make a mold and then make a wax foglite grill and then make a pouring mold around than. Lost wax casting is really easy! Using the proper sand or other medium will take alittle work.
Are you sure thats going to be hot enough? We used a blower off a kirby vacuum along with the propane to blast the crucible toget it hot enough.
Get some gloves, tongs, masks etc. The metal will spit sometimes and hit you and that shit is HOT!!! burns right thru anything and HURTS.
Posted by: r_towle Mar 20 2006, 12:22 PM
I have a perfect first project for you.
A box
basically 2.25 inch by 2.25 inch
it would have a 2 inch hole in the box, leaving an 1/8 ich bottom...
And then a cool looking airfinned top...
I can explain and send the pictures I promised log ago...
It would be a good simple, yet precise enough project that you may have some fun with it.
The type of aluminum is not that critical...
Rich
Posted by: MikeP Mar 20 2006, 12:27 PM
I need silver bullets. don't ask. 
Posted by: McMark Mar 20 2006, 01:09 PM
MikeP, 
Posted by: Demick Mar 20 2006, 01:21 PM
In middle school we had a forge. For our projects, we just used to bring in aluminum cans and melt them down. Not a high strength alloy, but for learning, its an cheap and easy way to get your hands on a bunch of aluminum. Just think - after you finish pouring a mold, you will now be obligated to sit back and knock back a few cool ones to replenish your supply of aluminum.
Demick
Posted by: Mueller Mar 20 2006, 02:07 PM
| QUOTE (Demick @ Mar 20 2006, 12:21 PM) |
| In middle school we had a forge. For our projects, we just used to bring in aluminum cans and melt them down. Not a high strength alloy, but for learning, its an cheap and easy way to get your hands on a bunch of aluminum. Just think - after you finish pouring a mold, you will now be obligated to sit back and knock back a few cool ones to replenish your supply of aluminum. Demick |
I don't think Sherryl would like me "stealing" from her recycling bins
(am I the only cheap SOB that'll pick up a can I find in the parking lot and throw it in my trunk???)my goal is to "recycle" the aluminum from a 914 as much as I can......I'll have to get desperate for aluminum before I throw that spare GA 2.0 case into the fire
Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 20 2006, 06:02 PM
cool. how many #s will your crucible hold? i wonder what will happen when you mix a few different alloys? 
are you going to try making your molds with Green Sand? you have to wear boots mike! don't burn yourself and have fun!
k
Posted by: jonwatts Mar 20 2006, 10:46 PM
How about a set of brass balls? Always nice to have spares.
Posted by: fiid Mar 20 2006, 11:08 PM
| QUOTE (jonwatts @ Mar 20 2006, 08:46 PM) |
| How about a set of brass balls? Always nice to have spares. |
Are you thinking of going into Real Estate Sales?
Posted by: jonwatts Mar 21 2006, 12:09 AM
| QUOTE (fiid @ Mar 20 2006, 09:08 PM) | ||
Are you thinking of going into Real Estate Sales? |
Not here, back on the east coast.
"There once was a man from Boston, Mass"
Posted by: Mueller Mar 21 2006, 10:45 AM
| QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Mar 20 2006, 05:02 PM) |
| cool. how many #s will your crucible hold? i wonder what will happen when you mix a few different alloys? are you going to try making your molds with Green Sand? you have to wear boots mike! don't burn yourself and have fun! k |
Well....as usual, I didn't do my homework and i bought the 1st "cheap" crucible I saw on eBay....it'll hold 28# of aluminum but is way too big for my furnace (I thought it better to build and learn on a smaller furnace)....sooooo I bought another crucible that'll hold 14# and it's a tight fit and not too easy to grab with the tongs so I know have another one which is a tad bit smaller and safer to use.
I have Petrobond ® for for the sand, it's a commercial product that has found it's way to the hobbiest...oil based
| QUOTE |
| jonwatts Posted on Mar 20 2006, 09:46 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How about a set of brass balls? Always nice to have spares. |
have you been talking to Sherryl? She just mentioned having me get "snipped", nothing about removing them completly
Posted by: jsteele22 Mar 21 2006, 10:56 AM
I vote for a set of jack stands, made out out of beer cans.
Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 21 2006, 11:03 AM
oil based? i bet that will be smokey. i wonder if after one use the oil base is pretty much burned out? check out "foundries" in the phone book mike. i bet you can buy some 5 gal buckets of green sand for next to nothing. where are the furnace pictures? another thread? did you spring for the pyrometer yet?
k
Posted by: Mueller Mar 21 2006, 11:33 AM
| QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Mar 21 2006, 10:03 AM) |
| oil based? i bet that will be smokey. i wonder if after one use the oil base is pretty much burned out? check out "foundries" in the phone book mike. i bet you can buy some 5 gal buckets of green sand for next to nothing. where are the furnace pictures? another thread? did you spring for the pyrometer yet? k |
apperantly not that bad.....it seems the vast majority of hobbiest use the PetroBond with great success.......the stuff can be reused, only the material in direct contact with the metal get's "cooked" (1/8" to 3/8" sand thickness), the surrounding sand is fine to reuse...the "cooked" sand can be thrown out or recycled to be used again...
no, I have not gotten a pyrometer yet, still looking at the different units that I can make
Check out this thing, with a 3D model (and some cash
), the machine will make your mold for youhttp://www.zcorp.com/products/zcast.asp
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Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 21 2006, 12:13 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 21 2006, 08:45 AM) |
| have you been talking to Sherryl? She just mentioned having me get "snipped", nothing about removing them completly :wacko: |
Yeah, its totally painless.....for her!!! haha
They should have done something "while they were in there" during the birth process.
Oh, if you do go ahead with this....she better be ready for sex with you 5 times a day for the first week.
Posted by: Brian Mifsud Mar 21 2006, 02:32 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 20 2006, 07:56 AM) |
| The burner is finished, I got the plans from http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/index.html It's a pretty simple propane burner, built from steel pipe for gas lines....cost a few bucks to make (the regulator with gauge cost about $40) I hope to be melting some aluminum and brass sometime this week....not as loud as I thougt it would be, but it does make some noise So far my "donor" aluminum scrap will come from some old used 2.0 pistons, a 914 steering rack, possibly an old 15x7 Phonedial that had a run in with a curb...of course I still don't know what the heck I am going to attept to make... The neighbors are nervous |
Mike,
Can't tell from photo, but is your burner inlet offset (more like tangential) to the cylinder? The furnace sites I've been looking at put the burner tangentially rather than radially to the cylindrical interior, then they "blast" the flame with a blower. This gives the swirling affect and superheats the interior.
Hold on to that 'oversized' crubible. The house I rented has a 55 gallon drum sitting in the backyard.... it's MINE NOW!!
I should be able to build a BIG ASS furnace... I'm feeding that baby with crankcase oil though..can't afford the propane bill for something that big.
I believe a leather/Nomex apron and/or leggings are your best bet to keep from getting burned.
Keep up the progress before those babies sink their teeth into you...
Posted by: Mueller Mar 21 2006, 02:39 PM
| QUOTE |
| Can't tell from photo, but is your burner inlet offset (more like tangential) to the cylinder? The furnace sites I've been looking at put the burner tangentially rather than radially to the cylindrical interior, then they "blast" the flame with a blower. This gives the swirling affect and superheats the interior. |
Yes, it is offset......not only have I been checking out all the websites related to this, but I've added at least 15 books on the subject to my office library....
Posted by: maf914 Mar 21 2006, 02:48 PM
| QUOTE (Brian Mifsud @ Mar 21 2006, 12:32 PM) |
| I believe a leather/Nomex apron and/or leggings are your best bet to keep from getting burned. |
No way that's going to happen. I've seen photos of those California boys at their sawzall parties and all they ever wear are shorts, teeshirts and flip-flops!
Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 21 2006, 04:27 PM
Mike,
What size crucible would fit best in your furnace? I have these two collecting dust here. The bigger one is 4 3/4"ODx10"H.
I also have an old pair of leather chaps at the shop that I only use to drape over sensetive car parts when I'm welding nearby.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 21 2006, 05:39 PM
| QUOTE (maf914 @ Mar 21 2006, 01:48 PM) | ||
No way that's going to happen. I've seen photos of those California boys at their sawzall parties and all they ever wear are shorts, teeshirts and flip-flops! |
that describes me to a 'T'....
i have Nomez flip flops for trackdays and for metal casting....
Posted by: kwales Mar 21 2006, 08:45 PM
We have used a lot of SLA cores to make complex stainless parts. Coat them in plaster and cast away.
Same process as lost foam- SLA burns out.
Muller, ya might want a copy of the 1930's books "Amature Telescope Making" vols 1, 2 and 3.
They go into detail on casting aluminum parts in yer back yard using easy to obtain materials. They use a barrel lined with firebrick, charcoal, and a fan blowing into the barrel for the furnace. They cast a bigg ass aluminum fork for a telescope.
Ken
Posted by: DblDog Mar 21 2006, 09:29 PM
...I took an adult ed metal class at the local high school and the instructor had a foundry set-up for casting aluminum...he used to cut up otherwise unreparable wheels...his favorites were from BMW's...made really great castings, mostly small parts for projects he was working on, machined very well...looked great. I never got around to doing any cast projects, but he had a great set-up. Something like this might be a good alternative to building ones own smeltry! Having that much heat around the back yard is scary...
Posted by: Rotary'14 Mar 21 2006, 09:45 PM
Hey Mike,,
You should make some badges for our grills with some of that awsome molten form 914!
-Rob
Posted by: ThinAir914 Mar 21 2006, 10:25 PM
| QUOTE (Rotary'14 @ Mar 21 2006, 08:45 PM) |
| You should make some badges for our grills with some of that awsome molten form 914! |
Posted by: alpha434 Mar 22 2006, 12:43 AM
You shouldn'tve mentioned this online. Now your going to be loaded with so many projects.... Good luck, Mueller.
Posted by: Andyrew Mar 22 2006, 01:03 AM
Mueller is already loaded with projects, I have a couple for him myself, which he has kindly refused because of time...
But he's always into good idea's!
lol, Mueller is Project master... Never to finish one.
Posted by: 9146986 Mar 22 2006, 01:17 PM
Depending on how long you've got to fire the burner, you may get into problems with your tank freezing. I had this problem doing ceramics, a long time ago.
Posted by: jonwatts Mar 22 2006, 02:27 PM
| QUOTE (9146986 @ Mar 22 2006, 11:17 AM) |
| Depending on how long you've got to fire the burner, you may get into problems with your tank freezing. I had this problem doing ceramics, a long time ago. |
Put it in a warm-water bath?
Place it on top of the kiln? (not)
Posted by: bondo Mar 22 2006, 03:38 PM
| QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Mar 21 2006, 10:03 AM) |
| oil based? i bet that will be smokey. i wonder if after one use the oil base is pretty much burned out? check out "foundries" in the phone book mike. i bet you can buy some 5 gal buckets of green sand for next to nothing. where are the furnace pictures? another thread? did you spring for the pyrometer yet? k |
Speaking of green sand... I need to find a source of green (olivine) sand in 80, 100 and 120 mesh.. But only in 100 lb quanitites (it's for glass casting at my place of employment). I've looked all over and I can only find places selling it by the ton. I don't care where it's from, we'll pay for shipping. I just need to find a place that sells it in small quantities by mail order.
Anyone know of a source?
Posted by: jsteele22 Mar 22 2006, 04:40 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 21 2006, 10:33 AM) |
Check out this thing, with a 3D model (and some cash ), the machine will make your mold for youhttp://www.zcorp.com/products/zcast.asp |
That is so cool ! Are you thinking of doing this (having someone else "print" the mold for you) ? The site said that the material costs are about $.10 per cc ($100/liter) of volume of the printed part; unused material is recycled.
Any idea what kind of markup there is for having someone print a part (mold) for you ? Would one of these molds be re-usable ?
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