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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Dream Car
Posted by: Howard Mar 22 2006, 04:47 PM
All these treads containing 'I wish they would make...'
My ideal would be cheap, light, and quick. 180mph top speed and 0-60 under 5.0 not required. No reinventing the wheel, just distilling most wanted features into one car.
Opposed or an inline laid flat so C/G close to axle centerline. A/C, stereo, etc. good, but have delete option for club sport version. No turbo/supercharger and possible 'green' version hybrid. Continuously variable tranny.
ABS/traction/airbags and protective cockpit. Make it look like a 55 to 65 sport racer. Lotus 23, RS60, etc. No bulges 
Target is 2:
2000 lbs
200hp
$20,000
There is enough artistic and engineering expertise here to do it.
Posted by: SLITS Mar 22 2006, 04:52 PM
Quit smokin those "Russian" ciggys and go back to sleep....we already have a $20K, 2K pound car, w/ 200 HP. It's called a Raby Teener or is that Rabid Teener. The "air bag" sits next to ya and the ABS (ABsolutely won't stop) is functional. Traction control is by "Right Foot" and A/C is by "80 MPH".
Posted by: SirAndy Mar 22 2006, 04:56 PM
i always wanted one of those "C111"s ...
picture is a Type I (1969), the Type II had better specs, 4 rotor wankel engine, 350 HP, 290ft-lb torque, 180mph top speed, 0-60 in 4.8 secs ...
we should build something along those lines ...
Andy
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Posted by: Flat VW Mar 22 2006, 04:58 PM
sharp paint,
John
Posted by: Howard Mar 22 2006, 05:00 PM
Something between the 2 
Love the C111 but too much tech, 914 too little. We's trying to make $$ here.
Posted by: johannes Mar 22 2006, 05:22 PM
You mean, those two cars I photographied last month at the Stuttgart Mercedes Museum ?
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Posted by: Headrage Mar 22 2006, 05:23 PM
Cool idea. I'd contribute to the effort.
Keep it skinny though. No big ass ugly flares (sorry flare guys).
Just subtle mods to fit some bigger tires to handle the power.
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 22 2006, 05:24 PM
| QUOTE (SLITS @ Mar 22 2006, 02:52 PM) |
| we already have a $20K, 2K pound car, w/ 200 HP. It's called a Raby Teener or is that Rabid Teener. |
Really?
Ever seen one & had a chance to drive it?.....me neither.
Posted by: vortrex Mar 22 2006, 05:47 PM
| QUOTE (SLITS @ Mar 22 2006, 02:52 PM) |
| we already have a $20K, 2K pound car, w/ 200 HP. It's called a Raby Teener or is that Rabid Teener. |
yeah, but that's just the raby motor that is $20k.
Posted by: TonyAKAVW Mar 22 2006, 05:52 PM
A subaru EJ25 with cams, good exhaust, and intake could get just about to 200 HP. Of course the turbo motors will do much more than that. All for a lot less money than an air cooled engine.
-Tony
Posted by: scottb Mar 22 2006, 06:02 PM
| QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Mar 22 2006, 06:52 PM) |
| A subaru EJ25 with cams, good exhaust, and intake could get just about to 200 HP. Of course the turbo motors will do much more than that. All for a lot less money than an air cooled engine. -Tony |
what he said....
i have my current car that i am keeping relatively true to form (air cooled) at the prompting of a suby convert. and i agree.
but......
gonna score a roller some day and that sucker is gonna be a suby with some tony/thacher/et al, parts and input.....
with a nice roller, you could have a screaming vehicle that will turn heads and go like hell for $20k or less.
cheers and i am gonna watch this one.....
Posted by: Headrage Mar 22 2006, 06:11 PM
Can we keep it ALL Porsche?
Posted by: Cloudbuster Mar 22 2006, 06:13 PM
Dude...
TR3 with a big block!
Posted by: lotus_65 Mar 22 2006, 06:16 PM
| QUOTE (scottb @ Mar 22 2006, 07:02 PM) | ||
what he said.... i have my current car that i am keeping relatively true to form (air cooled) at the prompting of a suby convert. and i agree. but...... gonna score a roller some day and that sucker is gonna be a suby with some tony/thacher/et al, parts and input..... with a nice roller, you could have a screaming vehicle that will turn heads and go like hell for $20k or less. cheers and i am gonna watch this one..... |
Posted by: carambola Mar 22 2006, 06:16 PM
come on, it has to be the silver teener from Camp914, at twice the price
Posted by: TROJANMAN Mar 22 2006, 06:43 PM
| QUOTE (vortrex @ Mar 22 2006, 03:47 PM) | ||
yeah, but that's just the raby motor that is $20k. |
i think it's $22k for the motor only (all the bells and whistles), so it must be a different car he's talking about.
Posted by: jhadler Mar 22 2006, 06:55 PM
Howard, you've got some nice goals there.
From a performance perspective, why would you want a CVT unless you were running something other than a conventional 4 stroke. Be a waste of engine...
Try this:
A Locost 7 chassis with an arctic cat driveline.
<1500 lbs, 200 hp, bullet proof CVT. Will probably go like stink and scare the livin' bugeezes out of ya! ABS and tranction control? Okay, there's aftermarket gizmo's for that. So that's possible. Air bag? Why? Just use a good 6 pt harness. Stereo?!?!? What Stereo?!?!? What?!?!? I can't hear you!!!!! 
Now -that- would be wicked fun. Noisy as all get out, but will blow the doors off nearly everthing else out there. Had a friend with a Locost, but couldn't convince him to go the snowmobile drivetrain route... Too bad...
-Josh2
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 22 2006, 08:32 PM
How much is an Elise and a Boxster? I think something could be built with off the shelf and salvage parts.
Posted by: Andyrew Mar 22 2006, 08:35 PM
ABS in a teener would be nice...
Especially for those who dont trust their right foot. (or left... depending on the corner..)
Posted by: ottox914 Mar 22 2006, 08:49 PM
On your mark, get set, FABRICATE!
How about a LoCost chassis, subi STI engine running to a 944 transaxle in the back? Light weight, 300/300 hp/tq, 50/50 balance...
Or just go American and build a superstalker.
Posted by: neo914-6 Mar 22 2006, 10:32 PM
| QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 22 2006, 02:47 PM) |
| All these treads containing 'I wish they would make...' My ideal would be cheap, light, and quick. 180mph top speed and 0-60 under 5.0 not required. No reinventing the wheel, just distilling most wanted features into one car. Opposed or an inline laid flat so C/G close to axle centerline. A/C, stereo, etc. good, but have delete option for club sport version. No turbo/supercharger and possible 'green' version hybrid. Continuously variable tranny. ABS/traction/airbags and protective cockpit. Make it look like a 55 to 65 sport racer. Lotus 23, RS60, etc. No bulges Target is 2: 2000 lbs 200hp $20,000 There is enough artistic and engineering expertise here to do it. |
$20k only if you can simplify the body, use cheaper motorcycle components ala Ariel Atom, ultralight extruded chassis like the Elise, do all the fabrication yourself or mass produce 100k/year offshore...
And don't add up the design, engineering, and prototyping costs
It may look like this:
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Posted by: Howard Mar 22 2006, 10:53 PM
Felix, that's kinda what I had in mind. You guys ever ride in a Lotus 7 or Cobra? Makes a 914 seem like a Lexus. Original or replica, they just don't offer the safety/comfort factor and I wanted mid engine. 5 year old Boxters are ~$20k and that's the benchmark performance wise.
MR2 redone right? Half price Elise? I'm not talking about a supercar or dedicated racer, just a fun driver. DOT certifying is probably out of reach, so would be sold as a mostly assembled kit that would take a readily available engine/transaxle from an existing car.
Posted by: Crazyhippy Mar 22 2006, 11:03 PM
it's possible to do a factory 5 cobra under $25K
I'm sure there are kit 7's do-able for that # too.
I want Ariel Atom style, but on a budget (where did i put my tubing bender again.....)
BJH
Posted by: biggy72 Mar 22 2006, 11:36 PM
for under 20 grand this would almost be impossible to do for anyone here. For a car company with machines to be able to produce stuff it wouldn't be so bad, but won't happen here. Even with off the shelf parts this would go way beyond 20. Custom typically equals expensive, and in order to package everything correctly and not compromise too much on the design (ie having good suspension geometry etc) it would have to have many custom parts. Especially parts like the motor, unless pulled from something else would be incredibly expensive to develop a new motor. And all of this is before passing emissions and safety standards and whatever other kinds of things that need to be met in order to legally drive a car on the street in the US.
Posted by: alpha434 Mar 23 2006, 01:28 AM
| QUOTE (biggy72 @ Mar 22 2006, 09:36 PM) |
| for under 20 grand this would almost be impossible to do for anyone here. For a car company with machines to be able to produce stuff it wouldn't be so bad, but won't happen here. Even with off the shelf parts this would go way beyond 20. Custom typically equals expensive, and in order to package everything correctly and not compromise too much on the design (ie having good suspension geometry etc) it would have to have many custom parts. Especially parts like the motor, unless pulled from something else would be incredibly expensive to develop a new motor. And all of this is before passing emissions and safety standards and whatever other kinds of things that need to be met in order to legally drive a car on the street in the US. |
Not in the industrial sect, are we?
I'm in. And I think we could hit budget. Might as well incorperate some neat aero devices everywhere we can. Someone design the bodywork. I think we'd HAVE to rely on the 6-point harnesses. Custom installing airbags is dangerous. I used to work for a plant that made airbags. They had alarms when there was too much static in the air and everyone had to sit down where they were standing, in case something explodes. But thats another story.
Who else could help?
WRX914- Windshield?
Me-Mounts and machinework
We'd need a team of artists to design the thing.
And someone willing to bury his garage in styrofoam and fiberglass for the bodywork.
And someone to weld a tube-frame. From aluminum with a steel rollcage? Or totally out of steel. It's too late. I can't remember the name of the lightweight steel they use in aircraft. I'll remember after I post.
And we'd HAVE to do unequal length adjustable wishbones on the front and five link rear.
Posted by: wbergtho Mar 23 2006, 02:41 AM
Steal someones's Ultima GTR
Posted by: alpha434 Mar 23 2006, 03:17 AM
Chromoly. I woke up for that.
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 23 2006, 08:02 AM
I did some consulting and assisted with some of the elements of this car. The windsheild is from a Saab 900. It's layed back and cut to shape. Lots of ways to use exsisting parts without re-inventing the wheel.
The car pictured is the first one completed. It's a cut down 928. Glas body kit, No top, I made a manually opporated (as in a 4' handle) tubing bender and dies to form the bannana shaped 1 3/4" DOM tubing used for the roll bar. I still have the back up die around someplace.
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Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 23 2006, 08:17 AM
Heres the next gen car, no more roll bar (targa bar gone 
) complete with power top that hides under the body like the Mercedes.
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Posted by: ! Mar 23 2006, 08:41 AM
Just finished watching the movie, "Tucker"......not pretty.
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 23 2006, 09:03 AM
| QUOTE ("*" @ Mar 23 2006, 06:41 AM) |
| Just finished watching the movie, "Tucker"......not pretty. |
Hold that TIGER!
Posted by: dekman Mar 23 2006, 09:16 AM
I think I got close: 2200lbs, 220hp, $26,000. 
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Posted by: balljoint Mar 23 2006, 09:23 AM
Can we get a cup holder for those $$$? 
Posted by: grantsfo Mar 23 2006, 09:35 AM
0-60 in 5.0 seconds? Yep Under $20,000? Yep No Turbo or Supercharger? Yep 30 MPG? Yep, sub 2000 lbs? Yep AC and radio? Check Delete option? Yes. Sports racer look and low CG? Sorry
Check out this link:
http://www.gomini.com/fs/vtec/vtec.htm
Posted by: Demick Mar 23 2006, 09:50 AM
Here you go Howard. Price is the only question.
VW EcoRacer. Mid-motor, targa top, 1900 lbs, 100mpg, 0-62 in 6.3 sec. I like it!
Demick
Posted by: dflesburg Mar 23 2006, 09:51 AM
buy a used 2003 or 2004 Mustang Cobra. You can get a hard top for about $20k. Convertables are about $25k
They go 0-60 in under 4sec and go just over 170.
Posted by: biggy72 Mar 23 2006, 10:04 AM
| QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 22 2006, 11:28 PM) | ||
Not in the industrial sect, are we? I'm in. And I think we could hit budget. Might as well incorperate some neat aero devices everywhere we can. Someone design the bodywork. I think we'd HAVE to rely on the 6-point harnesses. Custom installing airbags is dangerous. I used to work for a plant that made airbags. They had alarms when there was too much static in the air and everyone had to sit down where they were standing, in case something explodes. But thats another story. Who else could help? WRX914- Windshield? Me-Mounts and machinework We'd need a team of artists to design the thing. And someone willing to bury his garage in styrofoam and fiberglass for the bodywork. And someone to weld a tube-frame. From aluminum with a steel rollcage? Or totally out of steel. It's too late. I can't remember the name of the lightweight steel they use in aircraft. I'll remember after I post. And we'd HAVE to do unequal length adjustable wishbones on the front and five link rear. |
nope I'm not, but I have built a car from scratch... for around 25 that was mid engined, custom suspension, and the best overall design we could come up with at the time.
the problem is it's only a one seater, it's no where near street legal, and it's not meant to go too far before falling apart. All of these things add money on, and this is with an already done motor (granted with custom intake , exhaust, and custom fi). Now this was our first car, and next years will be much better, but there's a large gap between what is possible for 20g and this. The little specialty parts add up, and if you've got to cnc anything (unless you have your own mill ie more $) then that'll add more onto it too.
Posted by: rpmmaxxed Mar 23 2006, 10:15 AM
| QUOTE (dflesburg @ Mar 23 2006, 07:51 AM) |
| buy a used 2003 or 2004 Mustang Cobra. You can get a hard top for about $20k. Convertables are about $25k They go 0-60 in under 4sec and go just over 170. |
Might want to check your numbers...
0-60 in under 4 seconds? I dont think so. As for the 170mph, umm, no.
Posted by: Howard Mar 23 2006, 10:29 AM
Demick, I'm just afraid that car won't make it. Fits all the requirements, gets 30+mpg, but I'll bet it's gonna gain weight, content and $$. ECORacer is the right name.
And you guys are right, the only way a homebuilder could pull this off is by using off the shelf stuff.
Posted by: Demick Mar 23 2006, 10:54 AM
| QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 23 2006, 09:29 AM) |
| Demick, I'm just afraid that car won't make it. Fits all the requirements, gets 30+mpg, but I'll bet it's gonna gain weight, content and $$. ECORacer is the right name. |
I'm afraid it won't make it on price (I haven't seen any proposed prices, but doubt it will make your $20K price goal). Supposedly gets up to 100mpg, so it won't be able to gain any weight or content if they are going to maintain the mpg and performance.
Demick
Posted by: TROJANMAN Mar 23 2006, 05:33 PM
The ultimate redesign of a 914?
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Posted by: TROJANMAN Mar 23 2006, 05:34 PM
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