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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Carbon fibre shortage???

Posted by: East coaster Mar 27 2006, 11:12 AM

I just tried to order a CF 911 dash fro my teener and Getty informed me that they are no longer doing anytihg w/CF becasue they can't get it. They said the aircraft industry has bought up all produced CF and there is a shortage.

Just FYI for anyone considering any CF goodies!

I guess I'm back to my 914 dash and now need a 2 1/16" gas gauge. I've searched and read previous posts till bored and still can't seem to find the definitive answer on part#/availablility of this gauge??????

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 27 2006, 11:14 AM

alpha/johnman are almost done with 904 gauge kits....

the magic vdo gas gauge i think is the VW sender one...

Posted by: skline Mar 27 2006, 11:16 AM

Carbon fiber shortage my ass. That is just a marketing technic to drive prices up. They did it with gas and every other commodity out there. And we fall for it hook line and sinker everytime. I dont believe any of it anymore.

People want what they cannot have and if there is a shortage, they will pay more for it. What can you do?

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 27 2006, 11:22 AM

Why would the aircraft industry buy cosmetic carbon fiber. The use exclusively the directional stuff.

And Aaron. Yes. I'm picking up a bunch of uncoated units on Thursday.

Posted by: Phoenix-MN Mar 27 2006, 11:25 AM

Seems to real
http://www.uscomposites.com/carbonpage.html

Posted by: alpha434 Mar 27 2006, 11:30 AM

No way! You're kidding!!! I'd better go out and buy some stock today!

Posted by: turboman808 Mar 27 2006, 11:37 AM

Fine fiberglass it is!!!

Posted by: Terrance Mar 27 2006, 11:42 AM

I heard this more than once. I remember reading an article about the new RS Spyder. Apparently, they couldn't finish some parts in time due to the shortage. Why? Because the new Airbus A380 uses a lot of carbon fiber, and has been depleting the world of it.

Posted by: Jake Raby Mar 27 2006, 12:11 PM

It is real.. My Carbon Fiber tech works for Rockwell and he says it is certainly been hard to get.
We have suspended selling Carbon Fiber DTMs until the situation gets better, turn around time is out of control!

Posted by: J P Stein Mar 27 2006, 12:25 PM

Ayup.
Boeing & Scarebus have most all of it tied up....and it's gonna be so for the forseeable future. The new Boeing jet is a CF airplane. It's comming out-of-the-box at 7 planes per month.....but now they want 10 going to 14 per.
Course, we haven't built any yet.

All structual attachments to the CF must be to Tiatainium......which, while available....temporarly at least, is going thru the roof also.

Posted by: byndbad914 Mar 27 2006, 01:32 PM

I was ordering a GT Racing c/f 70" wing just last Friday, and at the end of it all he mentioned "the new price" and the old price was a bit steep (for me, not for c/f goodies) and that wing was now double the fiberglass one, so I have a fiberglass one on the way. He also said it was almost impossible to get c/f, the price of material was increasing, and he might not get more of those wings once he is out. He said it would be an 8 month lead time if he were out of stock from what I gathered (he had 2 left when I was talking to him Friday).

I really liked the shape of that wing too... oh well. I will have plenty of downforce with the one that is coming.

Posted by: SpecialK Mar 27 2006, 04:55 PM

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Mar 27 2006, 12:25 PM)
Ayup.
Boeing & Scarebus have most all of it tied up....and it's gonna be so for the forseeable future. The new Boeing jet is a CF airplane. It's comming out-of-the-box at 7 planes per month.....but now they want 10 going to 14 per.
Course, we haven't built any yet.

All structual attachments to the CF must be to Tiatainium......which, while available....temporarly at least, is going thru the roof also.

JP nailed it.....the Seattle guys are sucking up all of the CF for their CF tube fuselage.

QUOTE
Why would the aircraft industry buy cosmetic carbon fiber. The use exclusively the directional stuff.

Actually, we use alot of plain weave CF (mostly prepreg), with some strategically placed Uni for strength in a given direction. That said, I believe that the CF tube fuselage sections on the 7E7 and 787 uses tons of Uni in their automated process (picture a spider spinning a web around a fly )

....and I just happen to have a 1000' roll of 3" prepreg I could let go for say... $10,000.

Posted by: Grngoat Mar 27 2006, 10:22 PM

Aircraft don't use unidirectional exclusively. It all depends on the application. If it's stiffness critical, then uni (tape) is usually better, but woven (fabric) has better damage tolerance and is much easier to work with. Even so, most tape parts still have some fabric in them. Either way, the raw fibers are exactly the same for tape or fabric, they're just different product forms of the same material.

Boeing and Scarebus are using up lots of it, but so are military aircraft programs. Not surprising that cosmetic uses get the short end of the stick.

Also, mating metal parts don't have to be Ti. Aluminum works fine, you do have to seperate the parts with a fiberglass layer to prevent galvanic corrosion, but Ti isn't mandatory.

Posted by: J P Stein Mar 27 2006, 10:29 PM

QUOTE (Grngoat @ Mar 27 2006, 08:22 PM)

Also, mating metal parts don't have to be Ti. Aluminum works fine, you do have to seperate the parts with a fiberglass layer to prevent galvanic corrosion, but Ti isn't mandatory.

Don't tell me, tell a Boeing engineer......you may as well preach to God

Posted by: Grngoat Mar 27 2006, 10:44 PM

QUOTE
Don't tell me, tell a Boeing engineer......you may as well preach to God

I'm a Lockheed engineer. But commercial stuff is different, they are very conservative.

And I'm glad for it! I hate flying on Airbus! If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.

Posted by: dion9146 Mar 28 2006, 07:27 AM

Interesting topic, and it helps explain why I am seeing this shortage elsewhere. One of my other 'hobbies' is building/flying high performance RC sailplanes. And yes, it has been very hard getting CF lately. I use it in tail booms, spars, fuselage construction, etc. eBay has been the best source as it seems many suppliers are running out.

Dion

Posted by: riverman Mar 28 2006, 08:24 AM

I guess I should start manufacturing carbon fiber.

Posted by: Nick Mar 28 2006, 08:35 AM

I always see Airbus getting bashed on this site and was wondering if the bashers have an statistics to back up their claims that Airbuses are less safe than Boeing's. I did a quick Google on airplane crash statistics and got a few listings and Boeing always seemed to have more crashes than Airbus? Just curious.

Nick