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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ caliper roullette
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 28 2006, 07:14 PM
for those of you not following the other thread on this. I decided after much consternation and information gathering. To do it. What was it?
I put my 914-4 front calipers on the rear of my track car.
I have vented SC rotors on the front now with M calipers loaded with Porterfield R-4E track pads.
On the rears I plan on running basic street PBR pads.
I am going to try this at a one day event I am instructing at. If it still has too much rear bias then I am going to install an adjustable bias valve.
Pic of offending piece of equipment.
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 28 2006, 07:15 PM
and from the back side
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Posted by: J P Stein Mar 28 2006, 07:18 PM
We're gonna find out, me thinks 
Personally, I think a adjustable bias valve would be a good plan in any case.....it's more like roullette without bullets. 
Posted by: Mueller Mar 28 2006, 07:21 PM
did that setup once and didn't have any problems (on the street) for the few hundred miles I put on the car....used a "T" in place of the prop valve
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 28 2006, 07:27 PM
| QUOTE |
| Personally, I think a adjustable bias valve would be a good plan in any case.....it's more like roullette without bullets. |
We tried to tell him that in the other thread but "Mr. Smartypants" had to go his own way!
I think they'll be OK with the pads but it's hit or miss until or if you get the right combo. I 'really' like the Rear M-Caliper with the spacer removed idea...
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 28 2006, 07:32 PM
| QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Mar 28 2006, 05:27 PM) | ||
We tried to tell him that in the other thread but "Mr. Smartypants" had to go his own way! I think they'll be OK with the pads but it's hit or miss until or if you get the right combo. I 'really' like the Rear M-Caliper with the spacer removed idea... |
I know I should have listened to you.
I am now looking for a set of rear Ms. May have a line on some.
I just have to try things for myself. Even if .....?
this thread to be updated after my first outing to BW. stay tuned
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 28 2006, 07:48 PM
| QUOTE |
| this thread to be updated after my first outing to BW. stay tuned |
"If" he's still alive folks!
Just fun'n wit ya...
Based on what you wanted I think those M's would be cool. For those who weren't playing along at home:
The idea is to take a pair of rear 911 M-Calipers and remove the spacers. This is for guys and gals who are racing with 911 brakes up front that want a nice matching caliper (read; 38mm) in the rear. No handbrake of course. Without the spacer these would run on 914-4 or 914-6 rear rotors. Should 'bolt on'.
Advantages: Side mount brake line. Same piston setup used in a 911 and 914-6. No fancy rotor needs. More consistent pad setup.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 28 2006, 07:51 PM
thanks for the vote of confidence Eric! 
The Ms on the rear may be just what I am looking for...I have my people looking....anyone here have a pair? 
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Mar 28 2006, 07:58 PM
| QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Mar 28 2006, 05:48 PM) | ||
"If" he's still alive folks! Advantages: Side mount brake line. Same piston setup used in a 911 and 914-6. No fancy rotor needs. More consistent pad setup. |
Don't forget: Disadvantages: No parking brake. Car is no longer street legal in any state. Your insurance company could quite possibly deny you coverage, even after they have taken your money, if your car is in any kind of incident leading to questions about the brakes. The Cap'n
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 28 2006, 08:08 PM
Wow, and how many 914s have functional handbrakes? Equipment may be there but how well do they work. Can't remember the last time I saw one on a hot/street rod either. 
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 28 2006, 08:23 PM
Yeah, yeah, yeah Cap'n Grouch-o-Matic. That's why I said:
| QUOTE |
| This is for guys and gals who are racing |
Go back ta sitt'n on tacks and eating glass
Krustmeister's right folks... race cars only please. Marty... hurry up with that damn spot brake!
Posted by: grantsfo Mar 28 2006, 08:59 PM
I went with SC vented rotors in the front and back. Using SC calipers in back and 320i calipers with big pads in the front. Just hope I never have to park on a hill and my insurance company can bite me.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 28 2006, 09:03 PM
why did you use the bimmer calipers?
Posted by: grantsfo Mar 28 2006, 09:11 PM
| QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Mar 28 2006, 07:03 PM) |
| why did you use the bimmer calipers? |
Sort of like Everest. They were there. New calipers, dirt cheap, and they came with the 911 suspension I bought. Guess I have redefined caliper roulette!
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 28 2006, 09:18 PM
makes perfect sense to me....kinda like why I decided to try the fronts on the rear....they were there and didn't have those hoakie adjusters on them.
Posted by: race914 Mar 28 2006, 10:12 PM
And I'm gonna be on the track at Buttonwillow with TWO guys playing caliper roulette
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 28 2006, 11:35 PM
You don't have to worry about me Greg. I don't gamble Really.
I plan on being very cautious and build up to see what I have.
You will be in front of me any way.. . remember when your car was a stock 2.0L. I have a momentum car anyway...don't need brakes Much
Posted by: grantsfo Mar 29 2006, 12:36 AM
| QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Mar 28 2006, 09:35 PM) |
| You don't have to worry about me Greg. I don't gamble Really. I plan on being very cautious and build up to see what I have. You will be in front of me any way.. . remember when your car was a stock 2.0L. I have a momentum car anyway...don't need brakes Much |
And for me I'm an inexpereinced crazy guy with a new six. Dont worry, just be happy.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 29 2006, 12:50 AM
Well I wonder if any of our illustrious members will be my students for BW?
Would be interesting to say the least.
Hank usually tries to set newbies up with instructors that are very well versed in the car they are instructing in. I get lots of Boxsters and 914s ( when 914s are in attendance)
Posted by: dion9146 Mar 29 2006, 12:14 PM
Dan,
On my last 914 I had M calipers with Hawk Black pads in the front, a 'T' in the line, and the stock 914 front calipers moved to the rear with some generic carbon metallic pads. The bias felt great on the street and track, but I never got a chance to run it aggressively in the rain. That's where bias issues can really show their ugly heads.
It appears the car I have now has vented rotors in the rear with M calipers all around, and I have no idea what the pads are either. I haven't driven it yet, but it could be an experience.
Dion
Posted by: race914 Mar 29 2006, 12:43 PM
| QUOTE (race914 @ Mar 28 2006, 08:12 PM) |
| And I'm gonna be on the track at Buttonwillow with TWO guys playing caliper roulette |
Just kidding with you guys
I currently have a 19mm master and M calipers up front and went through some of the same things after I initially made the changes.
Can't wait to run with you both at Buttonwillow.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 29 2006, 07:46 PM
update....
got the brakes bled and pads bedded in. everything seems to be in order.
Tested from 50 mph stop. no rear lockup
At least I know it will work around town...now for the track in a couple of weeks.
I love it when things work out
I knew you were just kiddin' Greg....What rear brakes did you go with? Stockers?
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 29 2006, 07:58 PM
Cool... keep us posted.
What pads did you use front/rear?
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 29 2006, 08:01 PM
Porterfield R4E for the front and PBR stockers for the rear.
Posted by: race914 Mar 29 2006, 08:18 PM
| QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Mar 29 2006, 05:46 PM) |
| I knew you were just kiddin' Greg....What rear brakes did you go with? Stockers? |
I still have the stock rear calipers. (and the emergency brakes work too!)
I had a couple different plans for upgrades but as I keep taking weight off the car.... The brakes work better & better
so I'm thinking I don't want to add any more unsprung weight through bigger rotors & calipers if I don't have toI actually have a set of early 90s Big Blacks & Carrera front struts ready to bolt up when & if the time comes
Posted by: Eddie Williams Mar 29 2006, 08:29 PM
Shoot me if this is a hijack, but all this talk has me curious about my planned setup. S alloys up fron stock -4 in the rear, 19 mm MC, and a T. Yes/No/Maybe?
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 29 2006, 08:52 PM
With the T you should be fine... it would be nice to have a slightly larger piston back there but, those come in 2 varieties:
914-6 - Expensive
911 - No handbrake, unless...
Posted by: john rogers Mar 29 2006, 09:05 PM
I use the M calipers in front and BMW in the rear with Porterfield racing pads in front and the Axxis semi metalic pads in back and I too found that braking from 50 or 60 MPH was fine but from 135 it was a whole different story. The front pads need to get hot before they work well and the rear end danced a lot. I put in a manual prop valve and have the rear cut out by about 30% or so. This only happened at the CA Speedway as they use running starts and the pace lap is not enough time to get the front pads up to temp, even ridding the brakes some. I also found that when the front pads got really nice and hot that the front would drop really fast so I had to set the Koni front shocks really stiff. All other tracks I run them full soft.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 29 2006, 09:05 PM
I think I remember this....deja vu all over again
Thanks for the info John... That is what my test day at BW will be all about. How much do I need to heat up the fronts before the work really well and then do I have too much rear bias....
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 29 2006, 09:12 PM
(and a spooky voice from the dark said... M-calipers in the rear with a p-valve and the same pads all around)
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 29 2006, 09:14 PM
I hear you
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 29 2006, 09:16 PM
God... am I a pain in the ass or WHAT!?! 
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 29 2006, 09:23 PM
I hear you
Keep it up Eric. Great information always.
Posted by: drew365 Mar 29 2006, 09:31 PM
Just to throw my setup in the mix: A calipers in front, M calipers in rear with vented SC rotors. I have adjustable bias valve and run Pagid pads. I never have brake issues so I can't complain. No emergency brake, but I don't plan on letting my insurance company know. If they ever saw a picture of my car it wouldn't much matter about the e brake!
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Mar 29 2006, 09:34 PM
4 bolt set up with 3" spacing is what I run....so I am limited to my choices.
Posted by: race914 Mar 30 2006, 09:33 AM
Dan,
Here are the big blacks I had setup for my 914. Another option for 3" spacing.
Again I haven't done this yet since the weight loss program has taken away some of the need for bigger brakes. Remember Newland's car? He ran the Alloy S calipers and never had to go bigger...
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Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 30 2006, 10:50 AM
| QUOTE |
| He ran the Alloy S calipers and never had to go bigger... |
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