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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Balancing Diamond racing wheels
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 3 2006, 09:02 AM
Ok there is a note about Diamond wheels being lug centric and the center hole can not be relied upon to be exactly centered. SOmething about how the center section is stamped and cut.
Anyone got an idea of how to balance one of these. I am going to put some Hankook RS-2 tires for the street on a set of 15 x 8 Diamond pro wheels.
Wonder if I could use a spare front hub mount up the wheel and get it on a balance machine?
Posted by: URY914 Apr 3 2006, 09:24 AM
Wouldn't the ya-hoos down at the tire store know what to do? 
Tell them is a NASCAR wheel and they'll bow down to it.
Posted by: 736conver Apr 3 2006, 09:27 AM
Are you balancing these or is someone else. It should be no problem for your average tire shop. They should have the fixtures for it. I would call first though.
Posted by: jasons Apr 3 2006, 09:33 AM
He's gotta hope they have an adapter for 4x130. Thats probably pretty unlikely. I recall someone saying they just balanced them on the hubs and it always worked fine. Try searching, there may have been a thread about it.
Also, you could probably have the hub machined so it is centric.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 3 2006, 09:42 AM
| QUOTE (URY914 @ Apr 3 2006, 07:24 AM) |
| Wouldn't the ya-hoos down at the tire store know what to do? Tell them is a NASCAR wheel and they'll bow down to it. |
Yea after they get done scratching thier asses and bumpin thier heads the just walk in a circle picking thier nose.
Going to do it myself at a Military base hobby shop. nice Hunter balancing machine.
I suppose I could get it close enough with a good old school bubble level. Bubba has one in his shop that looks like it still works.
Objective is be able to drive to events without the whole car shaking apart.
Posted by: Pistachio Apr 3 2006, 09:48 AM
Iwas gonna suggest static balancing as a last resort.
If you take your time, you can get really good results -ut finding a bubble balancer to use is getting really hard
Posted by: nine14cats Apr 3 2006, 10:10 AM
Hi Joe,
I have 4 sets of Diamond Racing wheels for our track cars. In the SF Bay Area, I could not find a wheel balancing place that had a 5x130 hub. A high end shop said they could make one for me for $500.
Needless to say, I had them balance it on the hub as was previously mentioned. So far no issues doing it that way as far as balancing, although I do have a little shake in my front end at 80 to 90 mph. But that's probably due to the flat spotting of my front tires going too hot into a corner! 
I think you're gonna have to come up with your own solution. I'll be watching because I need one too.
Bill P.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 3 2006, 10:18 AM
So maybe I am thinking of something else. What is your definition of "on the hub" ?
Like when it in on the car and they do a dynamic balance using a roller?
Those are supposed to be the best machines. I am positive there aren't any around here.
My idea was to use a spare hub with all the bearings and such pulled out. mount up the wheel using short lugs and put the whole thing on the balancer.
Posted by: jasons Apr 3 2006, 10:20 AM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Apr 3 2006, 08:10 AM) |
| I think you're gonna have to come up with your own solution. I'll be watching because I need one too. Bill P. |
Have you looked into machining the wheel hub so it is hub-centric? I assume diamond doesn't guarantee that the hole in the hub is exactly centered in the wheel, but the lugs are. Machining the hub seems pretty viable.
Posted by: jasons Apr 3 2006, 10:21 AM
| QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Apr 3 2006, 08:18 AM) |
| So maybe I am thinking of something else. What is your definition of "on the hub" ? |
Using the hole in the center of the wheel like any other wheel.
Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2006, 10:32 AM
If you call around, you need to confirm they have the correct adapter for our wheels..
They dont typically.
If you find a VW shop..they will have it..most of the vw wheels need the adapter...they are not perfectly machined...
I also found that the Porsche wheels, namely the fuchs...can be balanced either way..they are pretty well balanced and the hole is centered.
I had some rivieras that show 1/2 inch out of round if you center them up on the machine via the hub...
I would say that if you can make a hub work...SHOW ME HOW>>
I have three cars with this issue..I would make one in a heart beat...just bring it out when its time for tires...
Rich
Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 3 2006, 10:34 AM
| QUOTE (r_towle @ Apr 3 2006, 09:32 AM) |
| If you call around, you need to confirm they have the correct adapter for our wheels.. They dont typically. If you find a VW shop..they will have it..most of the vw wheels need the adapter...they are not perfectly machined... I also found that the Porsche wheels, namely the fuchs...can be balanced either way..they are pretty well balanced and the hole is centered. I had some rivieras that show 1/2 inch out of round if you center them up on the machine via the hub... I would say that if you can make a hub work...SHOW ME HOW>> I have three cars with this issue..I would make one in a heart beat...just bring it out when its time for tires... Rich |
just touching on the fuchs.... they amaze me.al reed had my 15x7 and 15x8 30 year old wheels...
0 runout, and were almost dead on balance.....
amazed me....
Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2006, 10:59 AM
yah yah yah..pretty wheels ...
Hey did Aaron mention he got new wheels 
I love the look Aaron, almost makes me want to get a five lug setup....almost.
I would be curious how they do on torun in etc...
I never like big rear, small front wheel setups..
But, I suppose if you get the right tires etc it would work out.
rich
Posted by: Brett W Apr 3 2006, 11:15 AM
Joe, believe it or not I used to balance them like a normal wheel. Just slap it on the balancer. I ran them on the street and never had any imbalance. Give it a shot and see what happens.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 3 2006, 11:59 AM
Worth a shot, as two of the wheels are the ones I got from you. and the other two are from my set. Wouldn't have any more would ya?
Posted by: Brett W Apr 3 2006, 04:22 PM
Nah, I trashed the other two wheels when I wrecked my car.
Posted by: MattR Apr 3 2006, 04:25 PM
Theres something called a pin plate (or at least thats what Coats calls it). Its a disk with lots of holes and pins that simulate lug bolts that press into the lug holes. Our coats has 4 different plates with like 32 different arrangements for different bolt circles.
looks like that
Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 3 2006, 04:27 PM
matt, thats cool. so i take it lots of wheels are lug centric and not hubcentric???
why is it sooo hard to put the center hole in the exact midde tho? 
Posted by: MattR Apr 3 2006, 04:39 PM
| QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Apr 3 2006, 02:27 PM) |
| matt, thats cool. so i take it lots of wheels are lug centric and not hubcentric??? why is it sooo hard to put the center hole in the exact midde tho? |
We use the pin plate to be absolutely sure.
It has to do with manufacturoring and tolerances. Remember, the hole in the center is there just for the centercap. The car actually uses the lug holes. Why should you balance around the center? Machining isnt perfect, and when talking about such small tolerances as seen in balancing of wheels, ya need to be perfect (to a quarter ounce).
Posted by: Van914 Apr 3 2006, 04:48 PM
Why couldn't you just use a extra rear hub. Sure solves trying to find a shop with 4X130 adapters. It looks a lot like the pin plates in MattR's post.
Oh well just my $0.02
van914
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 3 2006, 06:51 PM
I agree Van, plus I have like 3 sets of hubs, a set of short bolts. I should be set.
Posted by: J P Stein Apr 3 2006, 07:28 PM
At worst, you could bolt up the wheel to the hub
then chuck the hub in a lathe and cut the wheel center concentric.
15 minute (ea) job for a shop.....end of problem.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 3 2006, 08:26 PM
Ya see that's why we let you play here JP.
Freaking Genious and I'm not being funny. Really.
Now how do I tell the machinist what I want.
Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 3 2006, 08:28 PM
| QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Apr 3 2006, 07:26 PM) |
| Ya see that's why we let you play here JP. Freaking Genious and I'm not being funny. Really. Now how do I tell the machinist what I want. |
you have miles draw a pic!
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 3 2006, 08:32 PM
Yea like that ain't been done before. Good thing I am out of beer tonight. It would now be all over the screen. FROM BEING BLOWN OUT MY NOSE!!!!!!!1 
Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 3 2006, 08:33 PM
| QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Apr 3 2006, 07:32 PM) |
| Yea like that ain't been done before. Good thing I am out of beer tonight. It would now be all over the screen. FROM BEING BLOWN OUT MY NOSE!!!!!!!1 |
ive been looking for the cam drawing..... makes me laugh thinking about it
Posted by: jasons Apr 3 2006, 10:08 PM
| QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Apr 3 2006, 06:26 PM) |
| Ya see that's why we let you play here JP. Freaking Genious and I'm not being funny. Really. Now how do I tell the machinist what I want. |
I must be in a vacuum.... didn't I say to machine the hub?!?!?!
Makes me wanna do a Rodney Dangerfield impression.
Posted by: J P Stein Apr 3 2006, 10:13 PM
Just clean up the ID with a minimum cut. He'll check the runout of the ID & tell ya how much has to come off to make it round & thus concentric to the bolt circle.....WAG, .03-.04 off.
Posted by: Mueller Apr 3 2006, 11:41 PM
| QUOTE (Van914 @ Apr 3 2006, 03:48 PM) |
| Why couldn't you just use a extra rear hub. Sure solves trying to find a shop with 4X130 adapters. It looks a lot like the pin plates in MattR's post. Oh well just my $0.02 van914 |
and how does the hub attach to the machine??
You cannot simply bore out the hub to some number you pull out of thin air, you have to ensure machine has a matching adapter.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 4 2006, 04:58 AM
Most balancing machines around here have a cone that the hub fits onto. and a slick cup clamping device on the other side to snug it up true.
Hub and hole in the center of the wheel is 2 different things to me RODNEY.
Posted by: 9146986 Apr 4 2006, 06:45 AM
How about getting them done on the car? At least the fronts anyway. As long as you don't have ltd slip, you can do the rears too. As far as I'm concerned best way to balance your tires.
Posted by: jasons Apr 4 2006, 07:50 AM
| QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Apr 4 2006, 02:58 AM) |
| Most balancing machines around here have a cone that the hub fits onto. and a slick cup clamping device on the other side to snug it up true. Hub and hole in the center of the wheel is 2 different things to me RODNEY. |
Yeah maybe hub isn't accurate terminology. I guess the hub would be on the car wouldn't it? Hub-hole? Center-hole? Center-Hub-Hole?
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