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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ '70 a arm 74 strut

Posted by: dinomium Apr 3 2006, 11:26 AM

So I need to replace the ball joint on the 1970 teener I just bought. I have two good struts with turbo tie rods that came out of my 74. My questions are these:
1 Is the ball joint from the early cars different or just the bolt?
2 will my later modle strut just wedge into the older a arm?
3 will the older brake calipers bolt on? They are in really good shape and the 74s need rebuilds...

Thanks in advanced...
Oh and while I am asking, will the shocks and springs from the 74 fit in the 70 in the back?

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 3 2006, 11:36 AM

Rear stuff bolts right up.

1. Ball joint is different.
2. Yes, with a new ball joint.
3. Yes, if you bring the rotor over with it. Old style calipers need old style rotors. This is a fairly new find so let us know if this is not the case.

Posted by: dinomium Apr 3 2006, 04:48 PM

Thanks, Eric
I am leaning tword just a R&R of the bad ball joint and then DRIVING it for a while, crazy I know!!!

Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2006, 05:22 PM

QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Apr 3 2006, 12:36 PM)
This is a fairly new find so let us know if this is not the case.

What is new here?

early calipers, ball joints, and rotors and strut/spindles assemblies are different from the newer ones.

Rich

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 3 2006, 07:30 PM

QUOTE
What is new here?

early calipers, ball joints, and rotors and strut/spindles assemblies are different from the newer ones.

What's new is the fact that you can actually interchange rotors/calipers with struts as long as the rotor and caliper remain as a set.

James' (Jaiden) cross-over car seemed to prove that point. I said "let us know if this is not the case" because I'd like to have more than 1 car as proof. His car came with early struts and late model calipers.

So, while the base of the strut is different, it appears the spindle, as you mention above, is not different.

Here's the http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=48396&hl=crossover,and,spindle with pictures.

Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2006, 08:18 PM

Calipers and rotors are mated..

I have to think how this went down.

I have a 72, older struts calipers etc...

I changed to the newer struts so I could eliminate the older ball joint bolt...it does not last.

I could not get the rotor/caliper to work...I tried cause I had two new old style calipers...

So I had to scrounge up new rotors and calipers that were in working order...

the ball joints are different...
The strut tube assembly is different, though the inserts were the same...old to new from bilstein..

I cant remember why I could not get the rotor/caliper to work, but it would not...I remember trying (cause I am lazy and I liked my nice new calipers...)

Anyways...maybe there is a third strut tube assembly..possibly a 72/73 version that can utilize the eraly calipers/rotors.....

The strut tubes I had were from a 74/75

Rich

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 3 2006, 08:26 PM

We need to solve this... I thought James car was the one to answer the question.

Who has one each of the struts, calipers and rotors available??? I have a set of late struts and early and later calipers gallor... I also have some later rotors (with no bearings though...)

If someone has an early strut they can part with for a week I can probably solve the mystery. James would then be the missing link with the 'crossover' strut(?). I don't think there's but two part numbers for struts...

Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2006, 08:28 PM

I have both...on the floor...in a pile..

Want some pics..

I have lots of strut tubes, rotors, calipers etc...

Rich

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 3 2006, 08:29 PM

Make yourself useful and get measuring!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 3 2006, 08:31 PM

QUOTE
possibly a 72/73 version that can utilize the eraly calipers/rotors.....

Probably the other way around from looking at James' job. Early strut that can utilize late calipers and rotors.

Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2006, 08:32 PM

ok, but Im not taking my front end apart again...

I know that the rotor/caliper pair will not fit...

I will set up some comparison shots...
All of it...

And measure...

Not tonight..tommorow.

Rich

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 3 2006, 08:34 PM

QUOTE
I have lots of strut tubes, rotors, calipers etc...

The you won't have to take your front end apart.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 3 2006, 08:48 PM

Here's the picture of James' early strut (bolt at the bottom) with the late caliper (dual bleeders and 11mm bolts) and rotor bolted to it.

Let me know if you find a 3rd strut... it will be VERY good to know for those with the crossover cars.

This is the one that caused all the commotion:

Attached image(s)

Posted by: SLITS Apr 3 2006, 09:25 PM

It is my opinion....

1. early strut, early rotor...any caliper

2. late strut, late rotor ....any caliper

I have enough calipers, struts, rotors and cars to prove it, but I'm just fuchin lazy and don't care.

But then, opinions are like assholes; everyone has one (some in different places). And that said, I am an asshole, but mine is where it should be....anatomically speaking

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 3 2006, 09:48 PM

What are ya? Goofy?? (don't answer, we know...)

From what I saw on James' car I'm laying down with Early caliper/Early Rotor/Any Strut. Late Caliper/Late Rotor/Any Strut. James seems to have an early strut and we know for a fact he has late rotors and late calipers.

The proof is in the above picture unless Rich can come up with the crossover year "Mystery" strut, which could very well be. It could be that James has a strut that for all intents and purposes specs out as a late strut with the exception of the early style ball joint attachment. The factory could have said "Bilden Sie uns 2000 von diesen..." just to use up the remaining old style ball joint inventory. An issue of Up Fix'n I have says the 911 switched ball joints before the 914 so it's quite possible they pooled the inventory and sent them to VW and had special struts made to finish them out.

With Porsche I'm not ruling anything out. It REALLY would be good to find out because people with crossover year cars will go through the same BS that James had to go through. His struts looked like early struts so he ordered early rotors... NOPE.

Posted by: Jaiden Apr 4 2006, 07:01 AM

Yeah that is what I have had to deal with!!! At least now the car is back together but next time I buy a teener it won't be a cross over year

Posted by: dinomium Apr 4 2006, 10:03 AM

popcorn[1].gif
So this sounds like I am never selling this car! It has a 75 fuel injected motor with an updated pump, in the same location. I am going to use the new style struts, ball joints, turbo tie rods and Konis from my 74 parts car. I am just not going to do that NOW! The next owner would need a hand written manual just to change the oil...
I am going to fix the bad ball joint, get some nice tires and DRIVE my 914 for a change!
I did try to bolt some new rotors to old struts for a parts car, it did not like it at all! The retaining nut didn't make it past the shoulder of the spindle...

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 4 2006, 10:35 AM

QUOTE
The retaining nut didn't make it past the shoulder of the spindle...

Starting to sound like there is a mystery strut. As mentioned above and by looking at James' photo... this strut appears to be "New Style" in every aspect EXCEPT the ball joint connection.

Damn.......