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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Tear it down?

Posted by: stock93 Sep 16 2003, 10:50 PM

I have a 71 1.7. The compression is 132, 130, 140, and 112. If I squirt some oil in the cylinder with 112 it come up to about 165. Would you guys go ahead and tear it down to re ring it or just run it? It has next to no power. I think I have some other problems as well. Its slower than a 1500sp in a ghia. Its also making a strange noise from idle to around 3000rpm. Then it just goes away. The best way I can describe it is it sounds like a rickety old washing machine. Any ideas?

John

Posted by: stock93 Sep 16 2003, 10:53 PM

Forgot to add, valves are adjust correctly to .006" Tune up has been performed. This car was sitting for 5 years. Sometimes it idles at 2K when hot. Other times it wants to idle at around 800.

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 16 2003, 11:07 PM

I would just run it until you have the money/time to install a good used 2.0 engine... or you could tear it apart and make it a 1911 with new P+C's and have the heads opened up for the new cylinders..

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 16 2003, 11:24 PM

Eventually I want to go bigger. I just dont have the money at the moment. Are the Heat exhangers the same where they bolt to the heads on the 1.7, 1.8, and 2.0? I'd like to build either a 2056 or a 2270. Any idea on the odd noise? Do the rivets in the cam gear come loose on these often?

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 16 2003, 11:30 PM

I have never seen the rivets come loose.. It could happen I guess.

all the exhausts will fit the other engines (the 2.0 exhaust on a 1.7 really kicks it in the ass and makes it breath better).

Your description on the noise leaves a little to be desired (cant tell what the hell your trying to tell me... )

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 16 2003, 11:37 PM

I wish I had a better way to describe the sound. It sounds like a valve clatter but its raspier than that. It goes away on acceleration and then comes back with a spike before leveling back to its normal level when you let off the gas. It doesnt matter if there is a load on the engine or not. Its definately rpm related. I guess I need some way to record the noise and then put it to a .wav file. The local VW guys havent been able to figure out what it is.

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 16 2003, 11:40 PM

Tighten all the valves to .003 or zero. Then come back and tell me what it is doing. It sounds like something is coming apart.

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 16 2003, 11:44 PM

Brad,
I just did a valve adjustment. All the valves were at zero. I backed them off to .006" The noise got slightly more quiet I think but I may just have imagined it. It does sound like something is comming apart to me to. I'm wondering if I have a valve seat that is about to drop but I would think that would get louder with more rpm.

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 16 2003, 11:49 PM

If the valves tighten on one cylinder.. the seat is dropping (valves moves closer to the adjuster) I cant imagine ALL of them dropping at the same time unless you over heated the engine with something blocking the cooling fan.

The noise does sound like seats dropping (now that I think about it).. they can slip out of the bores a little bit and go back in at high RPM..

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 16 2003, 11:52 PM

I'll check clearances again. I have no idea the history on the car other than it sat up for 5 years before I got it. Another guy suggested the muffler baffles came loose and are rattling aorund like crazy until they get enough pressure from higher rpm to hold them in place. Thanks for the help so far Brad.

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 16 2003, 11:55 PM

Easy enough.. pull the muffler off and shake it around. If its rusted inside... shit will fall out..

Make sure you have a new set of gaskets ready to go back on.

OR.. you can tap on the muffler and listen for moving parts...

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 17 2003, 12:16 AM

I tapped on it with a rubber mallet just a second ago. I dont hear anything moving around in it. I wonder if the PO burned the valves bad enough to make them clatter. Would it hurt anything if I took the pushrods out cylinder and see if it went away?

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 17 2003, 12:20 AM

The compression from what ever cylinder you pulled the push rods from would have nowhere to go... I wouldnt suggest it. Pull plug wires while the engine is running... and see if you can find a cylinder that "changes" when it has no load on it. Be careful with the spark.

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 17 2003, 12:25 AM

I already tried that one the other day. There was no change other than just normal from pulling a plugwire.

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 17 2003, 12:26 AM

Drive it until it BLOWS.. sorry. I try not to waste too much time on 1.7 engines...

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 17 2003, 12:37 AM

Thanks for all the help anyway. Its barely driveable. I have to just about slip the clutch in first to get up my driveway. I guess I'll just drive it till it lets go if I cant figure out what it is. Time to start looking for a cheap 2.0L. I did disconnect the alternator belt just to be sure it wasnt hitting the brushes in it or something strange like that.

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 17 2003, 12:39 AM

If you where close to me.. I would give you a complete 1.7 engine to play around with..

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 17 2003, 12:41 AM

Sounds like I need to move I have found one 914 engine around here. That was a couple of years ago. I have a 2.0L type IV bus engine in my rail. That is the only other type IV I have been able to find.

John

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 17 2003, 12:48 AM

We have several members from the Huntsville area on the BBS. They should be able to hook you up..

Oh.. I do suggest moveing from there to here.. we have MUCH better weather with NO humdity... now if we just had your taxes and your gas prices..we would be OK.

B

Posted by: Jake Raby Sep 17 2003, 12:56 AM

The sound could be a loose cam gear, or alos coulkd be a loose lower pin in the oil pump hitting the cam gear.......Or the thrust surface on the #3 cam bearing could be wiped out causing the cam to "dance" freely in the journals (this is heard more at low RPM on start up and shut down)

I would atleast rip it down and make it a 2056.....

Posted by: HarveyH Sep 17 2003, 05:47 AM

My PO had the engine rebuilt (1974 2.0 to a 2056) and the shop that did the work (no longer in business) didn't lock down the cam gear bolts properly. They walked out and ate into the oil pump body. If you're engine has been rebuilt before, you MAY have a bolt-on cam gear rather than the factory rivet-on, I believe even if they didn't use a hotter profile. If this is your problem, you'll get a clicking at 1, 2, or 3 times engine speed, depending on how many bolts are loose. In my case, the sound did change with load and run-up or run-down conditions.
Harvey

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 17 2003, 11:27 AM

I knew the bolts *could* back out.. but I havent seen any rivet failures. Now you have me scared about the last 3 engines I used bolt on cam gears from...LOL

B

Posted by: Jake Raby Sep 17 2003, 11:50 AM

I see the riveted gears fail all the time.....mostly it was the MAGNESIUM cam gers used in the early engines, not the rivets.

If thats what it is, she won't last long at all......the ,metal transferring through the oil system will "extrude hone" the bearings.....

if in doubt, rip it out and go from there.

Posted by: Brett W Sep 17 2003, 11:59 AM

John email me at tooltime1@mindspring.com I am local and could possibly come by and give a diagnosis.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 17 2003, 12:03 PM

They used mag cam gears on the type 4's ?? CRAZY. Learn something new every day.

B

Posted by: Brett W Sep 17 2003, 12:20 PM

I don't know Brad, maybe I just start a 914 empire here and only have to deal with the humidity and none of the garbage associated with California. But it would be nice to be able to go to the track in the middle of the week and not have to rent the whole thing.

Posted by: stock93 Sep 17 2003, 12:28 PM

Brett,
Sounds like a plan to me Have you been down to berber raceway?

I dropped you an email.

John

Posted by: Brett W Sep 17 2003, 02:54 PM

Yes was there for the HSR race in March? Neat track. Just got back from Road Atlanta this past weekend.

Posted by: seanery Sep 17 2003, 07:40 PM

Brett W,

That looks awful! Is it yours?

Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Carrera916 Sep 17 2003, 09:47 PM

holy shit!

hope you didnt banged your head out of the driver side window!

j

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 17 2003, 11:38 PM

Brett/Brett ?? Moved to colorado Brett... now your in Alabama ?? Waaazzzuuuppp??

I know the car.. I have pics of it when it was done..

B

Posted by: stock93 Sep 17 2003, 11:43 PM

Now this engine really has me puzzled. I was checking valve clearances again an number one intake is at .009" I just recently adjusted the valves. I cant have even run it an hour since then. All I have been doing is trying to figure out where exactly the noise is comming front when running it. Last time I adjusted the valves I went back and double checked all my clearances.

John

Posted by: McMark Sep 18 2003, 01:15 AM

Not trying to be a smart ass, but are you sure you're at TDC for the correct cylinder when your adjusting the valves?