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Posted by: billd Apr 16 2006, 02:07 PM

I have a B&M oil cooler with integral fan that measures 12 x 9 inches. I'm debating whether to lie it flat on the floor (where the spare tire normally goes) as Dan Thompson did with his cooler, or whether to stand it up right behind the front bumper.

The flat installation is simpler - I just drill some holes in the floor and mount the cooler on four shock mounts. The upright installation will require making a pair of brackets that run vertical from the floor and then forward to the front of the car. However, the upright installation will let me run the fan in the "correct" direction - its a puller fan - and would seem to capture ram air from the cutout in the front bumper and valence better.

I'm leaning toward the flat installation, but would be interested in hearing the collective wisdom of this board.

Any opinions one way or the other?

----Bill

Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 16 2006, 04:47 PM

no offense, do you want it to work ok, or to the best of its potential?

if you want it to work best, vertical. this way it gets "ram air" thru it. requires a duct out the floor.

need marginal cooling? ie - where just the 25 feet of line will do most of the cooling, then mount it flat, mount it whereever....


do it once, do it right.

BTW - B/M - is it a tranny cooler? what size are the ports? -6?
a /4 uses -8, or -10 (some use -12), a six REQUIRES -12 or larger

Posted by: GeorgeRud Apr 16 2006, 05:27 PM

I used a Turbotrol cooler of a similar size to cool my 2.7 hot rod, and have it laying flat on the trunk floor with no fan, but I did have a local sheetmetat shop fabricate a duct that directs cooling air from the front grill opening ( I have a 914-6GT front bumper and valance) to the sealed cooler, and then I cut a hole in the floor to exhaust the hot air. This system cools the engine so it never goes over 200 degrees even on a 90 degree day at the track.

The fan will certainly help, but a well built duct should provide enough cooling I would think. I don't know how large an engine you're cooling however. I used -12 lines back and forth, but I'd use -16 if the car was a track only car with a large engine.

Posted by: trekkor Apr 16 2006, 06:09 PM

Mine.

I cannot get the oil above 210° no matter what I do.
No shroud, air coming through bumper grommets.


KT


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Posted by: J P Stein Apr 16 2006, 08:01 PM

Add 100 hp & report back.

Posted by: trekkor Apr 16 2006, 09:10 PM

Someday


KT

Posted by: brant Apr 16 2006, 09:15 PM

I'd agree with frontal air if you want the maximum coolingout of the cooler.


brant

Posted by: East coaster Apr 16 2006, 09:15 PM

If properly ducted, the lay flat mounting should work as well as the verticle mounting. Not sure how well it would work without ducting though. It probably matters how much you need the cooler. If it is just supplimenting an engine mounted cooler and it's not the primary cooler then you can probably get away with a less than perfect setup. On mine, it's the only cooler and I was concerned about proper ducting.

Do what you'll be most happy with!

Here's my swag approach..........


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Posted by: BarberDave Apr 16 2006, 09:29 PM

SWAG APPROACH HELL!!!!!
Nicest one I have Ever Seen!!!!! I remember your thread on how you did it, inventive,with imagination. Dave

Posted by: brant Apr 16 2006, 09:34 PM

I remember that thread too.
and its nice NICE work...

I'm a tiny bit concerned about the corners in your duct work as a restriction.

general rule of thumb is 2x the exit as compaired to entrance.
those corners look a tiny bit tight.

my guess is that they are more than adequate for street work, but may leave a little bit to be desired on a big motor or track work.

I know how important exit duct can be since I redid my exit duct 3x before I ended up with adequate cooling (all with the same cooler) on my ex-race car.

same reason I went for overkill on the current race car.
brant

Posted by: East coaster Apr 16 2006, 09:38 PM

Brant, I think your setup is about the cleanest I've seen and probably one of the most effective, I bet. It's a shame it can't be done on a street car.

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 16 2006, 09:52 PM

Bill,
you need to mount it where you think you will get the most bang for your effort. A pic of your cooler and fan set up would be nice. I agree that most of the b&m setups I have seen are tranny coolers. Are you sure this will be big enough for a hot 3.2L motor?

Especially if you decide to take it to the track and not just use it as an AX weapon.

I tested my setup this weekend at BW and it worked very well, and yes it was only ~75degrees ambient.

Posted by: brant Apr 16 2006, 10:00 PM

My ex-race car is now turned back into a street car.
I run the same firewall mounted spare in it as you do.

I ran 3 different cooler exits on it when it was a track car until I finally achieved the oil temp I wanted.
Each different exit dropped between 10-20 degrees F from my oil temp.

here is the 3rd iteration:



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Posted by: billd Apr 17 2006, 10:28 AM

Thanks for the replies. I'm still working on a plan.

How much of the front of the car needs to be cut out to feed air? I suspect its going to take more than removing the plugs from the holes that are there.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Apr 17 2006, 12:24 PM

I just pulled the plugs and then used a hole saw of the same size to cut additional holes between the factory locations. It seems to let in plenty of air.

Kudos on the fiberglass ducting, very professional looking. The mold could probably make more if there was a need? Hint, Hint! See resources pages!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 17 2006, 12:38 PM

Promised Aaron some pics of my cooler mod for the GT shroud a while back... finally had some time and space.

Consists of weldng an aluminum plate across the ends and threading some AL rod 1.25 I believe and welding that to the plate where the original GT shroud mount holes are.


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Posted by: billd Apr 17 2006, 12:44 PM

Very nice use of the GT shroud. What type of cooler is that. I'm about to ditch my B&M cooler and look for one that is wider and shorter to fit better in the space available for a vertical mount. Also, where can one get the GT shroud? That would make my ducting work very simple.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 17 2006, 12:48 PM

It's an RX7 cooler. (Rich weigh in here, after you send the gauge pictures!)

Posted by: brant Apr 17 2006, 12:51 PM

correction...
its a MODIFIED RX7 cooler.

big difference between a stock rx7 cooler and a modified one.

pretty!

Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 17 2006, 01:05 PM

eric. looks nice. make sure to put it on rubber isolators

too cool. mine is a 13x3" setrab.... gonna make AL ducting for it

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 17 2006, 01:53 PM

I didn't modify it... there's at least 3 or 4 versions of the RX cooler out there. Maybe it was modified before I got it.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 17 2006, 03:40 PM

some have built in thermostats i read, some also have end fittings etc.....

what fittings does yours have? -12AN? (modded?)

Posted by: billd Apr 17 2006, 11:45 PM

OK, Here's a picture of the B&M cooler. Its a large cooler, but the plates are spaced more widely than on a Mocal or Setrab. This would work fine flat on the floor, but its really too tall to stand up vertically behind the front bumper. A Setrab 915 looks like it would fit nicely.

Posted by: McMark Apr 18 2006, 12:23 AM

Looks like flat is your only option. Which is fine in my book. If you have a fan, you don't really need too much "ram air". It all depends on how much cooling you need. Do you know how many CFM your fan will blow? You can always upgrade the fan for increased cooling.

This is for your stock 2.0, no? If so, you've got plenty of cooling without even cutting the chassis. Just throw it in the front trunk and you're done. Just having it in the system will cool enough. Are you planning on upgrading the motor?

Posted by: billd Apr 18 2006, 12:56 AM

The fan is 600CFM.



This is for a 3.2L short-stroke engine that I expect to make 280-290hp, so I want to make sure there is plenty of cooling. At the very least I'll cut holes in the floor of the spare tire well, but I'd like to position the cooler to get more ram air.

Posted by: brant Apr 18 2006, 08:45 AM

I am probably an extremist when it comes to oil cooling. But I think I developed that trait after having to completely RE-fabricate my front cooler 3 times..... (now I run 3 coolers on my new car and 2 of them are dual pass fluidyne's)

but I'd be really hesitant to try and run 300hp through any cooler that didn't have frontal ram air. Fans are good for traffic but my belief is that they actually hinder air flow at speed.

brant

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 18 2006, 08:49 AM

I hate to say it but, now that I see it's going to be a 3.2 290hp motor... I agree with your earlier assesment. Hard to beat a GT shroud for cost and ease of install. You can get them from Rennspeed or GT or...

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 18 2006, 08:50 AM

Aunt Brant beat me to it

Posted by: brant Apr 18 2006, 08:55 AM

Tia power!