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Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 24 2003, 04:51 PM

OK I did it! My first welds! They are not perfect but I did it!! I rented a Mig with gas from the local rental yard $25 and 20 minutes later its done!

Jeff


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Posted by: Mueller Sep 24 2003, 05:07 PM

That would explain the smoke I saw on the other side of the hills

Next time let me know, my welder is small enough for me to throw in the back of my car if you want to borrow it.

Looks good for a rookie

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 24 2003, 05:31 PM

now you have to learn the most important thing to become a professional welder.

how to operate that grinder


grind those welds down and seal them. "Metal-Ready" works very well ...
Andy

Posted by: ChrisReale Sep 24 2003, 05:40 PM

Cool. Welding is on my list of things I need to learn how to do.

Posted by: seanery Sep 24 2003, 05:44 PM

Chris, I took a class offered by the local high school's vocational department.
I learned Stick, MIG & TIG as well as the use of plasma cutters, etc... It cost me
under $300 and was well worth it.

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 24 2003, 05:53 PM

I do need a grinder! My dremmel is a bit to smalllllll! The welder I rented was only about 12"x18" with a 5 pound gas bottle strapped to it! Very compact! I did a few test welds on an old rear hood that I couldn't give away last winter and jumped right in! Does anyone have a smilie with a welding mast on it? lol

I will call you next time Mueller!

Jeff

Posted by: fiid Sep 24 2003, 06:05 PM

Home despot will sell you a 4" Ryobi grinder for about $30. I've given mine some abuse and it seems to be up for it. I would recommend it.

WTF is this weld sealing stuff you are talking about Andy - do you have a link? is this stuff for making welds watertight and making them look a bit better?

Thx,

Fiid.

P.S. 111th Post. Wasn't there a Lotus Elise 111R or something??

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 24 2003, 06:13 PM

metal-ready is part of the POR-15 treatment but works well as a standalone too ...
creates a zinc phosphate coat over the bare metal.

http://www.por15.com/product.asp?productid=177

Andy

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 24 2003, 07:10 PM

I just went out and purchased a Makita 4" grinder! It should go quick from here!

Jeff

Posted by: John Kelly Sep 25 2003, 08:46 AM

Hi Jeff,

Good for a first timer! It looks like you need to weld a little hotter so that the weld flattens out and blends in to the metal better. You want a round flat puddle to form each time you press the trigger. Press the trigger and release. It takes about 1 second, then move on to the other side away from the weld you just did. Keep zapping like this until you have filled in everywhere. Each small flat puddle should overlap the one next to it. Sometimes it helps to "wash" a little. This is simply moving the wire from one side across the gap or seam to the other in order to flatten it out. This also allows you to carry more heat without burning through. No grinder should be needed unless you are doing body work, and then gas-welding, or Tig is a better choice, and can be done with little or no grinding if done correctly.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 25 2003, 09:28 AM

Thanks John!

I think the sections that are raised are where I was unstable and pulled away from the weld surface and kept welding! I found that if I was closer I was able to achieve the "flow" and as I moved away it cooled faster. Just a guess though!

Jeff

Posted by: Dave Avery Sep 25 2003, 11:25 AM

Takes a humble man to post pics of his welding

I usually grind mine flat and paint before I'll even let my kids look at it

Posted by: Queenie Sep 25 2003, 11:54 AM

Another good option is your local community college. That's where I took my welding class!

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 25 2003, 04:23 PM

I never said I was a welder so it doesn't matter what they look like as long as they work....right

Jeff

Posted by: Dave Avery Sep 26 2003, 07:35 AM

Heh... I wasn't commenting on yours, commenting on my frankenstein welds.

At least some of my problem is that my welder has a rusty liner, and the wire "pauses" and breaks the arc all of the time.

Posted by: dharder Sep 28 2003, 04:27 PM

Now, what about the rear sway bar?? Welding, without flinching, while slag is dripping onto your chest takes real courage.

Posted by: seanery Sep 28 2003, 04:42 PM

no slag with a mig!
really super clean with a tig!!!

Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Sep 28 2003, 11:07 PM

Hmm, for a beginner I have to disagree about gas welding body metal...and TIG is simply too expensive. I think MIG is fine for a variety home jobs and gas is nice and serves a purpose (brazing, cutting, forming and welding) but not to beginner sheet metal welding on a car.

As for working on modern cars a MIG welder is recommended over gas due to the modern metals being used.

Posted by: John Kelly Sep 29 2003, 09:03 AM

Hi Toby,

I started out gas-welding on a Ghia in the late '70s or early '80s. I was a ship yard welder using stick and inner shield wire at that time. Also had a lot of experience welding with mig. I listened to what others said about mig-welding being the best way to go and switched to mig on cars. Later I wished I had not. Mig is great if you only plan to go so far, or are a home hobbiest, but to develop the skills further, gas-welding is well worth the extra effort to learn.

After many years of experimentation with methods of trying to keep shrinkage down while mig-welding, I finally switched back to gas-welding for most of my work. The metal stays soft and workable unlike a mig-welded panel which seems to be work-hardened, and requires grinding.

I can actually do my projects faster with gas than mig, and have no hesitation about cutting through a gas-weld with a pair of aviation snips, using a hammer and dolly extensively if necessary, or hammer-forming a part that has been gas-welded, all of which would be problematic with a mig weld. A mig weld is like a stiffener in the middle of a panel. A gas weld is much like the rest of the metal after a small amount of hammer and dolly work.

So, I agree, for beginners mig is great, but it can lead to arrested development, and more bondo than necessary. I've met a lot of great metal workers online, and in person, and only one of them uses mig for top quality autobody work with no filler. He grinds both sides, and uses a hammer and dolly to straighten, and reduce shrinkage. Everyone else that I know of in metalshaping uses either tig or gas-welding.

I think the reason gas-welding has gotten a bum rap is that the metal moves so much. The trick is that it will come back with a few bumps from a dolly, and some on-dolly stretching of the weld. Mig-welding appears to make the metal move less initially but it actually pulls, shrinks, and hardens the weld area to a greater degree. Sometimes the old ways are better!

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Sep 29 2003, 09:56 AM

Cool John So, for gas welding 914 sheet, what do you use? Brand name and tip sizes, por favor

Posted by: John Kelly Sep 29 2003, 04:51 PM

Hi Toby,

Mostly I use a Victor Jr. with a 000 tip, and sometimes I use a Henrob/Dillon with the smallest tip. I think almost any brand name small torch should be workable.

Keeping a clean tip, and as low a line pressures as possible without lots of popping seems to be the ticket for me. I don't pay much attention to the regulators, just the flame itself.

If you haven't seen it, here is a link to an article that has some of this in it:

http://www.type2.com/library/body/wlsh.htm

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Sep 29 2003, 10:42 PM

Hi,
I had a guy who came to my house and did some gas welding for me. The car was up on stands and I wasn't interested in schlepping it around to get welding done. This guy is an absolute artist with a torch! He took care of all the rust issues on my 73 including the ear part of the right suspension consol. Everything was butt welded with no overlaping. He would tack on a piece of metal and heat it a little and then shape it with a dolly and hammer. He is in the San Fernando Valley in Ca. and will travel from Santa Barbara to San Diego. If you're in S. Cal. and need some good work done, I'll be happy to give you his number. He owned a body shop for 20 years. He'll install flares and do body work as well.
Cheers, Elliot