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Posted by: watsonrx13 May 20 2006, 04:14 PM

Well, I attempted to install the complete MSD ignition system that Andy sold me, but I didn't have any luck. The engine is a 2.0l with dual 40 IDF webers, with the Webcam 86a cam (for carbed engines).

Here's a list of the parts:

MSD box
Blaster coil
MSD distributor w/spark plug wires
adapter cable
MSD tach adapter
NGK B7ES spark plugs with the metal caps attached



Here's how I installed everything:

1. Andy had already attached the MSD box to an aluminum plate, which I attached to the battery, where the FI brain use to go.
2. Removed the blue coil and installed the MSD coil.
3. Replaced distributor with MSD distributor.
4. Attached the MSD tach adapter to the aluminum plate
5. Installed the new spark plugs and wires



Here's how I attached the wires:

1. Purple and Green wires from 'back side' of MSD box to the adapter cable, then this cable was attached to the MSD distributor.
2. Orange and Black wires from the 'front side' of MSD box to the MSD coil. Orange to + (positive) and Black to - (negative).
3. Red and Black wires from the 'front side' of the MSD box to the battery. Red to + (positive) and Black to - (negative).
4. Red and White wires from the 'front side' of the MSD box to the MSD coil. Red to + (positive) and White taped off and not used.
5. Black and Black/Purple wires from the wiring harness to the MSD coil. Black = (positive) and Black/Purple to - (negative).



Well I tried to start the car but there was no spark at the plugs. I checked the spark out of the coil, but there wasn't any there either.

I don't understand how to connect the MSD tach adapter and where the wires hook up.

After attempting to get the car started, and failing, I reinstalled the old blue coil, distributor, plugs and wires.

What did I do wrong and how can I check if I 'fried' any of the electronic systems?

Any suggestions, comments and pictures will certainly be accepted and appreciated.

-- Rob

Posted by: trekkor May 20 2006, 04:52 PM

I don't have my diagram in front of me, but I believe the original coil wires from the harness go to the MSD.
Then the black and white go to the coil alone.

You should only have two wires on the coil.

I'll hunt for the diagram.


KT

Posted by: trekkor May 20 2006, 05:05 PM

This will do it!


KT


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 20 2006, 05:06 PM

I have MSD manual which covers all sorts of distributors. The two diagrams below appear to be the only ones for an MSD distributor. The first one appears to be the only one with a purple (violet)/green harness. Let me know if these don't help and we can try some others.

Edit: Looks like Trekkor has the same book. Now you have 3 to choose from, but I see no purple wire in Trekkors. His is what I used on a six with Pertronix.


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Posted by: trekkor May 20 2006, 05:07 PM

hold it!!

there is a page in the instructions for using an MSD dizzy.

One moment...

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 20 2006, 05:12 PM

After looking at your diagram, I think you want the black from harness (ignition) connected to the red to MSD box, rather than both connected at the coil. The purple/black wire is to your tach and connects to the tach output on the box, not to the coil. Only the orange and black from the box go to the coil.

Posted by: trekkor May 20 2006, 05:14 PM

you're fast...


KT


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Posted by: watsonrx13 May 20 2006, 05:27 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I don't have the parts with me right now, but I'm going to the shop to pick them up, then I'll post more pictures and/or drawings to verify that I have everything ready to be hooked up tomorrow....

-- Rob

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 20 2006, 06:52 PM

OK, I'm back from the shop with some more pictures......

The tach adapter has red and white wires, with 2 wires each off of them.....



So which wire, red or white, does the black/purple (from the wiring harness) attach to? And do I tape the other wire up so that it isn't used?

-- Rob

Posted by: SirAndy May 20 2006, 07:06 PM

the tach-adapter is *not* needed to run the engine. leave it out for now, detach and ignore ...

you want the basic setup to run before you try to make your tach work with it ...

simply follow the MSD installation instructions (without the tach adapter) and yopu should be good to go ...

Andy

PS: i *thought* i had added the MSD instructions to the box. did i forget to send them?

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 20 2006, 07:21 PM

No Andy, I have the instructions, but there are WAY TOO MANY diagrams for me to understand. I got most of it together correctly, but I was having difficulty with the red wire coming out of the MSD box, grouped with the taped off white wire.

If I can get the final connection for the tach adapter answered, I'll connect that up after I successfully get the engine running....

-- Rob

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 20 2006, 07:47 PM

None of the diagrams above even show the tach wire. It is one wire, connected to a male spade terminal located on the box where it says "tach output" on the diagram.

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 20 2006, 07:53 PM

OK, I'll check the MSD box tomorrow.

Now, what is the small square red box between the distributor and the coil? I thought that was the tach adapter....

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 20 2006, 07:56 PM

Gotta leave that one to Andy, beyond my experience.

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 20 2006, 07:58 PM

Then obviously I won't need it for this installation.....

Thanks again for all of your help, I'll post tomorrow the successful results....

Posted by: jim_hoyland May 20 2006, 09:19 PM

The little red box is the tach adapter. See: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206704&perpage=20&highlight=msd%20installation&pagenumber=1

Posted by: jim_hoyland May 20 2006, 10:02 PM

Pic>>


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Posted by: mikez May 20 2006, 10:14 PM

A diode MAY be needed in the D+ circuit....1 out three in my experience....the engine may run on after the ignition is shut off....

Posted by: mikez May 20 2006, 10:15 PM

In the alternator to the alternator light in the dash....

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 21 2006, 08:09 AM

OK, here's the lastest and hopefully final wiring diagram:

1. Purple and Green wires from 'back side' of MSD box to the adapter cable, then this cable is attached to the MSD distributor.
2. Orange and Black wires from the 'front side' of MSD box to the MSD coil. Orange to + (positive) and Black to - (negative).
3. Red and Black wires from the 'front side' of the MSD box to the battery. Red to + (positive) and Black to - (negative).
4. Red and White wires from the 'front side' of the MSD box to the MSD coil. Red to + (positive) and White taped off and not used.
5. Black and White wires from the 'front side' of the MSD box to the MSD tach adapter. Black to 1 of the red wires and White to 1 of the white wires.
6. Black and Black/Purple wires from the wiring harness to the MSD tach adapter. Black connectes to 1 of the red wires coming from the tach adapter and Black/Purple connects to 1 of the white wires coming from the tach adapter.

Posted by: jim_hoyland May 21 2006, 12:37 PM

Is it working ?

Posted by: Joe Ricard May 21 2006, 05:46 PM

Anybody ?
HELLO................

Rob? does it work? yet?????????????

Posted by: URY914 May 21 2006, 07:59 PM

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 22 2006, 03:13 PM

SUCCESS

Sorry it took so long to post the results, but since I had a 914 day Saturday, Sunday was the 'honey due' day....

Anyway, I was able to remove the old stuff and install and correctly wire the MSD ignition, using the last posted diagram. The only thing I wasn't able to verify was the tach adapter wiring, I needed a flat bladed connection, which I'll wire up tomorrow.

Here's everything connected:

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 22 2006, 03:14 PM

Now, can someone please describe and/or post a picture where you have mounted the MSD box?

Here's a shot of my firewall:

Posted by: Joe Ricard May 22 2006, 03:19 PM

If and when I put another box in my car it will be in the passenger compartment. on the tunnel or directly above it on the fire wall. Rubber mounted.

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 22 2006, 03:31 PM

Joe, where is your's currently mounted? I don't want to mount it in the passenger compartment...

Posted by: carr914 May 22 2006, 04:09 PM

Rob, when I was running my 2.0 with MSD, I had it mounted in the rear trunk, basically at the rear of the engine, about where the jack is tied down. I'll look for pictures, but that would be pre-digital so I really have to look.

T.C.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 22 2006, 04:22 PM

I mounted mine on the firewall using the rubber mounts, in the area of the "X" in the picture of yours. However, I had the interior backpad out so the nuts could be installed on the inside.

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 22 2006, 05:05 PM

Thanks for the info guys.

Jim, did you mount the tach adapter on the firewall also? Any pics?

TC, I don't think I'll mount it in the trunk, but thanks for the info....

-- Rob

Posted by: MarkV May 22 2006, 06:14 PM

Rob,

After weling up all the holes & painting my firewall I didnt want to drill holes in to mount my Hyfire. I fabricated a stand and mounted it to the passenger side rear of the engine compartment.




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Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 22 2006, 06:33 PM

Rob,

I did not use a tach adapter. However, I have an Autopower aftermarket tach in my car. You can try wiring your tach direct to the tach output on the MSD and see if it works. I think it might.
Here are a couple of pics. My car is a six conversion so the oil breather catch container and a big fuel filter are in the way. However my battery is in the front trunk.


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Posted by: SirAndy May 22 2006, 07:44 PM

uhm, what's wrong with the bracket i sent you? works fine and you don't have to drill any holes in your firewall ...

Andy

Posted by: KevinP May 22 2006, 09:57 PM

Ok Rob,

Where was our mistake on the initial install wiring? And do you have the tach now hooked up and working?

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 23 2006, 04:34 AM

Andy, I still have the bracket, I just dismounted the MSD box to be able to wire everything up. I haven't decided not to use it, just was asking for various options.

-- Rob

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 23 2006, 04:37 AM

Kev, we hooked too many wires to the coil. The black (hot) wire that was originally hooked to the + coil, needed to be connected to the red wire on the MSD box. I'm going to try to hook the tach wire (black/purple) directly to the MSD box where the 'tach output' is. If that doesn't work, I'll hook up the tach adapter and post the results tonight....

-- Rob

Posted by: Joe Ricard May 23 2006, 04:47 AM

and when that don't work go buy an autometer tach.
2nd option is to have someone rewire your stock tach electronics to work.
I like my autometer and shift light. but might loose a couple points in a concourse event....................

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 28 2006, 05:36 PM

Update, I mounted the MSD box on the firewall, per Jim's recommendations.... BTW, I removed both seats, the center arm rest and the back pad....

Also, I connected the black/purple wire to the 'tach out' on the MSD box with no success on the tach.

I then wired in the 'tach adapter' with no success again on the tach.

I'm going by a stereo shop tomorrow and to see if they can fix up a diode circuit and I'll try to install that....

Anyway, I ran the car up to the local gas station.... Wow.... the car starts without hesitation, there's no back fire through the cars, in other words....GREAT.... I haven't had a chance to check the timing, but since the tach isn't working I wasn't in too much of a hurry....

-- Rob

Posted by: Joe Ricard May 28 2006, 07:51 PM

When you get sick of screwing around with the stock tach. Most of the FLAPS have an Autometer that fit right in the hole.

My box is on the work bench broke. Car runs fine without it.

Posted by: Aaron Cox May 28 2006, 07:57 PM

mounted mine on the pass side firwall. short connections to coil and battery

Posted by: watsonrx13 May 28 2006, 08:46 PM

Aaron, yep, that's where I mounted mine. I'll post pics tomorrow, left the camera at the shop...

Joe, I'm hoping to use the current tach, it's brand new from the new car part's stash....

-- Rob

Posted by: rhodyguy May 29 2006, 08:01 AM

stock tach, works fine. daveh did a good job when i purchased this setup from him, and he handled the wiring aspect. install, set timing, haven't touched it since, spring 05'.

k


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Posted by: bob174 Jun 2 2006, 11:41 AM

I'm doing the MSD/tach adapter installation right now also. Is the tach wire the wire that's on the negative terminal of the coil?

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jun 2 2006, 01:18 PM

Factory tach wire is always black with a purple tracer.

Posted by: bob174 Jun 2 2006, 01:21 PM

Ok, and it goes to the negative coil terminal, right? In the original configuration I mean.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jun 2 2006, 04:56 PM

I believe so, but not certain. All I know is it goes to the coil but mine now goes to my MSD so I can't look to be sure.

Posted by: watsonrx13 Jun 2 2006, 06:31 PM

Yes Bob, the black/purple tach wire originally went to the negative side of the coil...

BTW, I just received the diode in the mail today, from MSD. I'm going to wire this in and hopefully finally get the tach to work correctly...

Here's a diagram of how I'm going to wire everything together...

Posted by: watsonrx13 Jun 8 2006, 08:20 AM

Please disregard the previous post. I had the wrong tach adapter. The correct one is 8920. Here's the correct wiring....