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Posted by: turboman808 Jun 5 2006, 06:08 AM

So I was doing a bit of work on the car last night. My brother came out and started talking to me about the car. I mentioned it was sold as a VW in Europe. At least I have seen European pictures with VW logos.

Well being the VW guy that he is he had to start saying it's a VW then. I said well pretty much everything on it is porsche at this point. So he said it's still a VW body.

SO Yeah now I was wondering who made the body? Porsche or VW or a bit of both?

Posted by: Mueller Jun 5 2006, 06:15 AM

it Europe, it was sold as a Porsche-VW, not just a VW, huge differance

The car title says Porsche, and when your insurance company gives you a bill for it, it's says Porsche as well


Your brother is a tool....leave him out of your Will

Posted by: Jeroen Jun 5 2006, 06:17 AM

the body was made by Karmann

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jun 5 2006, 06:23 AM

I was going to say that...

In the US it was sold as a Porsche. So, thats what it is.

Zach

Posted by: Hammy Jun 5 2006, 06:56 AM

it's, as my neighbor put it, "glorified Volkswagen or an unglorified Porsche, either one".

Posted by: RON S. Jun 5 2006, 07:03 AM

I hear it all the time from the guys here at work.

"Souped up Volkwagen"

This always comes from guys whose idea of restoring a good car is a run of the mill chevy that at any car show,gets lost in the same crowd of other chevys that are all the same just diferent color paint.

I'll stick with being different.

Ron

Posted by: Hammy Jun 5 2006, 07:06 AM

I hear ya.

Posted by: drewvw Jun 5 2006, 07:24 AM

I think an important distinction here is what the car feels like, a porsche or a vw?


Does it feel like my ghia? yes. But does it also feel like an early porsche? yes. If I had to lean one way or another, it feels more like an early porsche than a vw.



I agree, keep him out of the will and give him a huge charlie horse and a nuggie.

Posted by: turboman808 Jun 5 2006, 07:29 AM

Only had mine about 3-4 or weeks and I must say I get some pretty rude comments from people. But it always starts with "Wow thats a really cool car" Which is just weird??? I realized it's best not to tell people how much I paid for it. Because they always got some shit to say about it when I do.

But good to hear I drive a porsche

Posted by: turboman808 Jun 5 2006, 07:34 AM

yeah my brother would kick my ass. Has a martial arts school and trained one of the guys in the last ultimate fighter series. nuggie would be a bad idea

Posted by: Hammy Jun 5 2006, 07:38 AM

just smoke him in your VW then

Posted by: tdgray Jun 5 2006, 07:49 AM

Neither... as my one of my nieghbors said yesterday as I was owrking on the car.

"Hey nice FIAT"

Posted by: Joe Bob Jun 5 2006, 07:51 AM

Ask the asswipe if he thinks a 356 is a VW? Those were Karmann and Ruetter and a few other coach builders WITH VW drive trains....

How about Ford...Bodies by "Fischer" .....the list goes on....

Posted by: drewvw Jun 5 2006, 07:53 AM

mikes got a good point there....

Posted by: DNHunt Jun 5 2006, 08:14 AM

It's certainly a hybrid, not really 1 or the other. The truth is you gotta have a pretty thick skin cause the people who don't know sh@t are gonna give you the VoPo or NARP stuff. Most of the Boxster people won't give you the time of day and some of the people driving newer waterpumpers would rather not have you around. The people that really know will give you respect and a lot will say "I had one of those and I really loved that car".

My experience with VW people at Bugorama was interesting. There was a lot of interest in my car, but mostly they were curious. Very few that I talked to had much knowledge about 914's and many were surprised by my comment that the car was a joint venture between Porsche and VW.

Dave

Posted by: URY914 Jun 5 2006, 08:17 AM

Corvettes ain't nuttin but a fancy Vega.

Posted by: drewvw Jun 5 2006, 08:21 AM

muscle cars ain't nuttin but a truck frame with a huge freakin engine

Posted by: DEC Jun 5 2006, 08:23 AM

In Europe its a VW-Porsche, the title say as manufacturer VW
but everybody call the car as Porsche 914.
Outside Europe the manufacturer is Porsche.

The reason for this is that in Europe the 914 was selled by VW-Dealers
in the US by Porsche-Dealers

Posted by: 9146986 Jun 5 2006, 08:29 AM

My reaction to those comments has grown into "OK, sure".

Don't give arguement to someone too stupid to overcome ignorance.

It's OK if you don't know the truth, and want to find out the fact; that is ingorance (not knowing) in search of the truth.

Stupidity is not knowing the truth without any desire to find the truth, but professing that you do know the facts.

Sorry guys, but I gave up the argument a long time ago. I feel no need to defend why a 914 is really a Porsche.

Posted by: olav Jun 5 2006, 08:49 AM

Which fighter did he train?

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 5 2006, 08:51 AM

PK's got it right.

VW or Porsche, who cares? Let your brother call it whatever he wants--it's still more fun than just about anything else on four wheels!!!

--DD

Posted by: RON S. Jun 5 2006, 09:00 AM

Yea,

I don't bother with much follow up to a rude comment about my teener.

I do know,if you do take your teener to an open car show,and look beyond the dumb questions about "What kinda car is that",you'll see you'll get more interest in it than those run-of-the-mill Ford & chevy guys.

Ron

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 5 2006, 09:03 AM

One thing way too many people need to get over is that Porsche = VW, at least up to the period the 914 was being made (and recently, now that Porsche owns a big slice of VW). The same family designed the earliest VWs and the earliest Porsches, and lots of parts were shared between them. Any 356 person who's sensitive about this needs to grow up.

A lot of guys on the 912 board were pretty uppity about this. F*ck 'em.

I certainly don't have any problems with the shared heritage. Anyone who does is simply ignoring history.

Is it a VW or a Porsche? The correct answer is: Yes.

Posted by: SLITS Jun 5 2006, 09:12 AM

Dave's got it right..........If your ego is so fragile that the distinction between VW or Porsche is critical, I say buy a Honda. At least then your identity crisis is solved.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 5 2006, 09:17 AM

One thing for sure, a 914 is not a Ford, GM or Chrysler product.

Posted by: turboman808 Jun 5 2006, 09:21 AM

WOW sorry I asked. Seriously some people got there panties in a bunch

Personaly didn't care either way. Just asked who built the body because I was curious.

Posted by: ehick72 Jun 5 2006, 09:28 AM

I have noticed that VW people don't seem to like these cars too much. Which may be the root of his comment. I remember the last time I had mine at the shop (which was a diffcult thing for me to do in the first place...let someone else do my work) and a mechanic walked by as I was getting into it and said "yeah my wife wants one of those things...I told her there is no way in hell!". It seems that I get rude comments every single time I deal with a VW guy. Does anyone else get this??

E-dog

Posted by: Mark Henry Jun 5 2006, 09:34 AM

I went to a bug show and got "that doesn't look like a VW to me", cheese and whiner's are about the same. Some are Ok, others are just dicks.

Who cares.

Posted by: MBowman325 Jun 5 2006, 09:39 AM

Now now, just 'cause something's a Chevy, doesn't mean it won't stand out. My '78 Monte is the only one in town like it, easiest thing to pick outta a parking lot, if I'm not surrounded by trucks. Probabliy one of handfull nationwide. The 3rd Gen Montes were sorta a stepchild in the GM family... (Not a fan of the GM F-Bodies except as parts cars) All of the cars I've ever had have been somewhat unique, even if three outta six total have been GM. (87 Monte SS Aerocoupe, 96' DGGM Impala SS)

I've learned with my cars that if someone talks down on them, they don't understand the fundimantal idea of playing with cars -- Make it yours. Be it a concours restore, a wild V8, a Rotax conversion or a 9014/Chalon kit (or a FI LT1/4l60e in a 3rd Gen Monte that looks almost bone stock). Improving on the factory weaknesses, if any exist, is a definate bonus.

A 914 is a 914. Body by Karmann or fiberglass or whatever drivtrain, it's still a 914. Like what was said before, VW and Porsche were inter-twined at the start.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jun 5 2006, 09:40 AM

You could always poison him...



No he doesn't. Ford? Body by Fisher (no 'c')? Hailing from Lansing, MI... I don't think so. Mike's simply been drinking again.

Check the heavily debated design thread. I believe the original intent was to have Porsche design a Ghia replacement. The 924 was also designed for the "People's Car" company... is that a Dub?

Me says P-Car but I love the VW involvement.

Posted by: DNHunt Jun 5 2006, 09:42 AM

Cept mine, i got a wee bit of a bunch of stuff. A true mutt.

Dave

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Jun 5 2006, 09:54 AM

Designed by P-O-R-S-C-H-E! Built by VW subsidiary.

Go see the history of the Dino Ferrari... same game... FIAT built engine designed by Ferrari.

Both of these were Boutique cars where the anticipated sales didn't merit bringing all the tooling and production inhouse.

Posted by: 914-8 Jun 5 2006, 10:05 AM

Seems like it's a lot VW to me.

Isn't the 1.7 and 1.8 an engine straight out of VW, unmodified by Porsche (the 2.0 was reworked a bit by Porsche).

Wasn't the 4 cylinder car assembled by VW workers in a VW factory?

Doesn't the manufacturer sticker say "Manufactured by Volkwagenwerk AG"?

I think the correct answer is it is a joint exercise between the two companies. Both companies played large roles in it's design, construction, and supply of major components. To deny VWs huge involvement with the production of the car is silly and unnecessary. It is what it is.

That being said, as someone who has owned may 914 and 911 over the past 20 years, I can honestly say I much prefer the 914! It doesn't make sense to most people, but it's true and my driving habits prove it. I've almost always had one example of both sitting at the same time in the garage. And when it's time to choose which one to drive, 99% of the time it's the 914, because it's more FUN, regardless of the label one wants to put on it.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jun 5 2006, 10:28 AM

My buddies with Honda Del SOL and a Mazda 6 Speed were giving me shit last week. You know VW this and that and one of them made a coment about the flares. "what are those Dually fenders"?

After I took it to both of them on the track My reply was "yea how about that VW with dually fenders" "You got beat by a Volkwagen.... Naner naner naner NANER"

Posted by: IanStott Jun 5 2006, 10:30 AM

When I lived in Germany, 77 til 80, it was referred to as a Porsche, the people who called it a VW with a bit of disdain in their voice were car snobs. These people exist, no matter where you are. I just said then, as I say now. well whatever you think, I really like them and I'm going to own one some day. And now I do and I still love the damn thing!

Ian Stott
Moncton

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Jun 5 2006, 10:42 AM

I had 5 VWs and none of them came close to the handling of the 914, to me it

it didn't feel anything like a VW. In the canyons it left them far behind. Call it a

VW- PORSCHE but don't call it a VW.

Posted by: dflesburg Jun 5 2006, 01:03 PM

I dont care if you dont like my cars and long as your eating my dust and I dont have to drive your pos. Kinda like I dont want you looking at my woman and I certainly wouldnt even let my dog climb on yours... geez.

Stop worring about what other people think.

Don't ask God what he thinks of you. You will probably get your feelings hurt there too.

Posted by: zymurgist Jun 5 2006, 01:05 PM

Them's fightin' words!

Posted by: zymurgist Jun 5 2006, 01:09 PM

Seems like Fleetwood Mac could do a whole song about that!

Posted by: MattR Jun 5 2006, 01:12 PM

Rubber seals dont cost $2g on a VW.

Posted by: D1A3 Jun 5 2006, 01:23 PM

Look at it like this, does the car reside in the Porsche Museum or the VW one? It's in the Porsche Museum and listed in all of the Porsche historical books that I have ever seen... It's a PORSCHE.

We're but I like the comments!

Posted by: Scott Carlberg Jun 5 2006, 02:53 PM

..Just the opposite for me.
When I actually drove my 914
I took it to a couple of different VW event/drives, the majority of the questions were: "is that a 6?". I also had quite a few tell me that they had had a 2.0 at one point.
Most also thought I'd be the only one to hang with the 'fast guy' on the drive.

Posted by: gregrobbins Jun 5 2006, 06:07 PM

At that time the 911 tubs were made in the Karmann factory too according to Brian Long.

Posted by: /L. Jun 5 2006, 06:41 PM

I lov's my car! At least I have one that works and is pretty damn nice looking

Posted by: John Jentz Jun 5 2006, 07:06 PM

When Norbert Singer signed my 914Club hat at Petite Le Mans, he smiled when I asked him if it was a "real" Porsche and said "Yes !". Who are you going to listen to, the architect of every Porsche racing car since 1975 or a gold chain wearing whine and cheezer taildrager??????????????? Although, taildragers are Porsches too. I guess.

Posted by: anthony Jun 5 2006, 07:13 PM

I pretty much only hear this stupid debate on the net. In my real life car scene I also hang out with 911 drivers and other PCA members who drive other Porsches. Everybody thinks the 914 is pretty damn cool.

Posted by: JOHNMAN Jun 5 2006, 08:49 PM

Could someone please call my insurance company and tell them it' just an old crappy VW, or by the same token, call the personal property tax people and let them know it's just an old crappy VW?

That goes for my ass dragger turbo as well....

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 5 2006, 09:27 PM

A 914 is the bastard offspring of a gasahol fueled night of lust between a 911 and a VW Bus.

So that makes the 914 a SOB (Son of a Bus)!

Posted by: Lou W Jun 5 2006, 10:11 PM

It seems like all the parts that I've been buying for my car seems to be the same parts for a 911. That should say alot.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 5 2006, 10:15 PM

as someone once said...

anyone who said it is a VW never priced replacement parts....

Posted by: Lou W Jun 5 2006, 10:23 PM

Well at least we're not talking about a Chalon or a Bradley Gt...






oh wait...






never mind

Posted by: jimtab Jun 5 2006, 10:48 PM

we're beating the proverbial dead horse here but I have just one comment....how many mid-engined cars has VW built....now, how many has Porsche built....I rest my case...oh, yeah, and fuck em if they can't take a joke...the 911 cars days are numbered...mid-engine rules....

Posted by: Thack Jun 6 2006, 12:18 AM

Personaly didn't care either way. Just asked who built the body because I was curious. [quote]

The question could be "who designed it?" Since it's a Porsche design and styling that's what makes it worthy. Karmann did build 911 bodies and they put the badge in the door jamb just as it is in the 914. The VW parts and input were to bring the price down too. The Karmann Ghia was styled at the studios of Ghia in Italy. VW just didn't have the styling genius of Porsche.
The most distinguishing answer I give is "Porsce made this car finish 6th overall in the 24 Hours of Le Mans".

Posted by: Thack Jun 6 2006, 12:22 AM

Here we go again. Look at this venture...
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_1758.shtml

Posted by: morphenspectra Jun 6 2006, 12:26 AM

its a porsche.
james

Posted by: nbscooters Jun 6 2006, 01:15 AM

my co worker gives me shit all the time, he pumps water though, in his 944!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: dflesburg Jun 6 2006, 07:00 AM

Everyone run out and buy copies or check out your local Library.

Ferry designed the 914, using existing parts sources, to beat Butzi's 911, for less money, after Butzi was running his mouth about being a better car designer. Everybody knows that given the same engine and transmission which car fares better on the track.

Isn't the Carrera GT just a long 914?

Posted by: tmh75 Jun 6 2006, 07:44 AM

I did a little seaching on the net since my dad likes to tell me its a VW.

The first porsche where made at VW with VW parts, and apparently so are the last.

The boxsters and Caymans are made in Finland. And the Cayanne is made at VW since is shares the exact same tub as the Toureg.

So you can tell your doubters to "put that in your pipe and smoke it!!"

Posted by: mudfoot76 Jun 6 2006, 08:38 AM

While I was out driving around on Sunday, I encountered a number of other taildraggers of various vintages. All of them either waved or blinked lights. For the short time I've been a member of my PCA chapter, I am the only 914 that shows up for events and everyone is always interested to see my car. Only on one occasion did I feel like I had a less than warm reception, and that was from a CW who didn't like my paint job and rear spoiler. Whatever, it is my car, and I like it how it is

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 7 2006, 08:45 AM

Man, this has gone one for sooo long & you hafta feel bad for the Dino owners too. Some of you out there surely remeber that PCA was going to ban 914 owners from mebership because the 914 wasn't a "true" Porsche. I'd bet that most of the detractors were 356 people. Thankfully, wiser heads prevailed but it tookaction by the national officers. For many years, and when Porsches were less seen on the road, 356'ers would flash 911's & get a response flash. If a 914'er flashed, you never got a return & sometimes got the middle digit. At least those days are gone. I'll bet if a 914 flashed a Cayenne ( & why would you do that?), you'd get no response. Likewise a Cayman or any other new 911.

That's why you take your cameraderie where you can get it - right here!

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Jun 7 2006, 09:23 AM

I WISH the 914 body seals were priced like a 911. Last time I looked, a complete set for the 911 was in the $500 range... can't beat the volume of the 911.

I WISH the 914 was BUILT as well as my '69 Beetle. Fit, finish, and most importantly, body DRAINAGE was far more superior.. once again, can't beat volume to wring out the flaws in a design....

Posted by: BigDBass Jun 7 2006, 09:24 AM

Reminds me of when I was leaving my parking spot at a restaurant last month and a Cayenne was waiting to pull in. I just knew the driver had no idea what my green machine was.

Posted by: BigDBass Jun 7 2006, 09:34 AM

More on topic: I typically tell a certain subset of our friends and relatives that it's "just an old VW" to avoid sustaining their seemingly resentful attitudes towards "discretionary spending"

Posted by: Matt Meyer Jun 7 2006, 09:34 AM

Isn't the fact that the 914 is treated as the "bastard" car of Porsche part of its appeal. It' is kind of fun to get spun up about things like the advert saying the Boxster was Porsche's first mid-engined street car.

I was looking forward to one of the PCA members to tell me it isn't a real Porsche. My response would be, "Yea, I know, but the VW club wont have me." But it appears it's not going to happen

For the record the local VW club will take any one who is a "VW enthusiast". No VW ownership is required.