So I'm browsing around on EBAY today and run across a turbo caliper from '78. Is there any big downside to using a set of them on my conversion car? Obviously, I've got to find a set first...
Here's http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-911-930-TURBO-RIGHT-REAR-CALIPER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33563QQitemZ8071329871QQrdZ1 to the auction so you can see what caliper I'm talking about.
Later,
Kevin
the conversion gets brought up a lot - you could probably even do a search about it. I have them on my V8 car - you need 911 struts with the correct bolt spacing on the front calipers and the correct rotor and hat. The struts you just have to be sure you get the right set. The rotors and hats are available from VCI
http://vehiclecraft.com/Brakes/930_upgrade.htm
or you can use stock early stuff (either 77-78 or it's 78-79, you'd have to verify) but the stock stuff ain't cheap.
The rears require the caliper mounting be remachined. VCI does this and includes the spacers and such - then they bolt right up and use a turbo rear rotor.
I got all my floating rotors/hats/machining from VCI. I bought the calipers used and have RSR front struts fyi. Supposedly the VCI rotors wear faster than stock, but I can't verify that personally as I have limited use thus far. They work awesome though! And are about the only good upgrade caliper that still fits under 15s.
as mueller said... they arent cheap!
and i think boxsters fit under 15's
mounting turbo calipers isn't the problem (they bolt right up to a 3.5" strut)
the trouble is in the rotors
the 930 had spacers incorporated into the wheelhub so the rotor has a different offset than a narrow bodied 911
so if you mount the turbo rotor to a narrowbody wheelhub, it won't fit inside the caliper
and if you use 930 wheel hubs, the wheels are not gonna fit inside your fenders (unless you have flares)
so to use the turbo calipers on a narrow bodied car, you'll need custom rotors (or custom hats with floating rotors)
those are expensive and since rotors are a service item, that's not such a good idea (IMO)
also, do you really need calipers that big?
how big are your tires?
if the calipers are too big, all you gonna do is lock up your brakes
I don't know about your car, but you could be better of with SC or Carrera 3.2 calipers/rotors
the 3.2 has the same caliper (padsize) as the SC, but it's spaced a little wider to fit over thicker rotors
if those are not big enuf, you could use the 3.2 rotors with 944 turbo calipers (which only need a very small modification to mount to a 911 3.5" strut)
lots and lots and lots cheaper (both on initial purchase and later when you need to replace your rotors) and probably more than enuf braking capacity
whats a floating rotor?
oh... the 944 turbo calipers won't fit in 15" wheels (you need 16")
if you want to use 15" wheels, check on Boxster calipers (about the same size as the 944T calipers and also use a 3.2 rotor IIRC)
you need special mounting brackets for those
check with Rich Johnson (see the "resources" forum) for those
I love my 930 brakes. My only concern is when it is time to buy new rotors. Cha-Ching$$$ To get the most out of them you should use an agressive pad and they are not rotor friendly. DLee
We simply bought a complete 930 front suspension and bolted it up to the front of our flared track car. We then got rid of all our front wheel spacers. 930 front ends are 2" wider than 911 front ends. 1" per side.
You will need a bigger master cylinder with 4 piston calipers. A 23mm works well.
For the street, I can't imagine NEEDING that much braking, but on the track with 2 drivers, we need all the cooling we can get.
Good luck Kevin.
I gotta go bolt my 3.2 in my car at last.....
Is the rotor supposed to have some play in it. I noticed mine wiggles a bit but I figure thats how it is supposed to be.
Since when they wear out they just need the disc and not the hat I would think the price wouldn't be that bad
so they are supposed to be able to float or not
All the bolts were in and it was loose all around evenly. I better make sure with Dave
do you have 930 brakes?
Holy mackarel!
I guess I had "forgotten" about these brake calipers and when I ran across them again today I un-forgot them.
If you can look at that VCI webpage and not want those calipers you oughta sell your Porsche(s) (even the NARPs!) and buy a Prius.
I've actually got a set of S2 calipers sitting in the garage now waiting for that phase of the project (6 mos out). This car will have 17" as the primary wheel at that point. I don't see any reason to worry abou the 16" wheel minimum given that. I've been finding that the leading edge of high performance tires is quickly leaving everything below 17" behind anyway.
But back to brakes, simply put, I like the looks of the 930 calipers. It's not really a matter of necessity now is it? It sounds like quite a commitment in making the switch to those calipers though; much more than any other common conversion.
I'm gonna put the 930 calipers on my "watch list." If I find a used set I might just snap 'em up. I've 6 mos before I pull the trigger on this anyway.
Later,
Kevin
Try to buy a 930 complete front suspension and bolt it right in. You'll have everything you need including the aluminum crossmember and the torsion bars...it all bolts right in.
Bill
Please allow me to give you a little primer on putting 930 brakes on a 914.
I found an orphaned set of rear 930 brakes @ Hershey a few years back,and thought WTH I'll give it a shot.
Bought'em for 400.00 for the pair,then needed new rotors,200.00 more.then had to get the cal's machined to fit the trailing arms.100.00 more.
Total,700.00 just for the rears.
Fast forward to 2006.Now I go to Hershey looking for fronts to match the rear.I place adds on PP's classified WTB a set of 930 front's.I get several e-mails from many 911 people willing to sell,but almost all have only a complete set to sell
Finally get an e-mail from a guy parting out a '78 930.He's willing to sell me the front calipers,930 hubs,Spacer,& rotors.Cost,1800.00 delivered.I take it.
Parts have been stripped clean & bead blasted and are now at my powder coater for some paint.
Now,for the fun when they get back.
2 new floating rotors,600.00,rebuild kits for both calipers,200.00.new wheel brg's 60.00, and a must have 23mm naster cylinder.200.00
that's 1100.00 I planned on after the cal's come back from the pc.
The going rate for a properly done 930 setup on either a 914 or a 911 is 4-5 thousand dollars. and it ain't gonna get any cheaper.
It's a lotta bling,but damn it sure is a helluva braking sytem.
One note,with the fronts.The '80 up 930's used a fixed rotor,those are relatively cheap.about 200.00 a pair but you MUST have the matching 930 hubs also cause of the offset.The early floating setup is essentially the race setup to have,the fixed rotor setup is quieter for the street.
Ron
The part that concerns me the most is the rotors. I hate to have $$$$ tied up in disposable parts. Although I guess if I were to extrapolate from the other car which is getting 20k on rotors I might say that is five years on the 914 which maybe isn't such a big deal then.
Later,
Kevin
small side note, I ran 944 turbo's with 15 in rims. Most of the time I ran small spacers to push the track out a bit (15mm) per side on a flared car. I don't remember and interferance to the wheel.
Or you could run 4 piston Wilwood Forged Superlights. Pick your piston sizes. Put a small spacer (washer) between it and the mounts on a stock late 911 front end. You have 4cm^2 less pad area than a 930 caliper (4%), calipers that are only $130 each, the ability to completely rebuild them, including pistons for ~$45, and ANY brake pad compound you want for under $100. Lots of room under a 15x6 Fuch.
Jeroen has it right on the floating rotors. They're supposed to be "loose", in that the friction surface of the rotor is not supposed to be firmly attached to the "hat". The rotor shouldn't rotate much with respect to the hat, but they may rattle around a bit. The rotors float so that they can expand as they heat up, and don't distort since the mounting points have some give in them.
This also somewhat isolates the rotor and hat thermally, so the hat (which is often made of Al, where the rotor is made of iron) won't conduct rotor heat into the hub, thus making life easier for the wheel bearings.
VCI uses or used Coleman rotors. You can source the rotors direct from Coleman, and skip the middle man mark-up.
930 brakes are just awesome, using the VCI components, that Doug sells seperately will result in great brakes.
Wilwoods can be set up a few ways, they fit over stock SC or Carrera, these work ok, but are at the thermal max, to work properly you should get a hat and proper rotor.
You can also add big reds ..cost will be $4k from Racetech..
I bet there are all kinds of brakes options that yield similar or even superior performance when compared to 930 brakes. But compare...the...looks. The 930 caliper looks period appropriate unlike the modern monoblock calipers. At a price, I'd do the S2 brakes no question. Price not a factor: 930 brakes.
Check 'em out...
The 930 and big red are from VCI. The Wilwood is from the Wilwood catalog.
Later,
Kevin
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ummmmm big reds... That sure looks nice. i really want a set of monoblocks. What kind of money are we talking for that route?
Eric
Yeah I wopuld pretty much agree you are generating the same amount of heat. It's the rotors ability to shed the heat.
Friction of the tires to the road stops the car. Brakes convert your momentum into heat. Or something liek that
I'm not a thermal engineer, but I play one on television.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat
I have had great success running the 944 Turbo calipers F+R with 84+up Carrera rotors on a 914. They fit under the 15inch Fuchs and provide more than enough stopping power for all the track cars/street cars I have ran them on.
I have done the complete 930 setup on a V8 conversion car. All it does it lock up the 205/45/16's on 16x6 Fuchs. WAY overkill.. but the COOL factor is way UP.
B
here a pic lifted from Bill V on pelican, it shows in extreme, what happens when you overstress a stock sized rotor.
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Is it hard to control the locking with that size master and did you use a 23mm?
I put 83 fronts on my car with stock rears and stock m/c. Car stops really well for me and I like the softer pedal.
Altough my ego wanted monster colorful calipers with logos, I forced myself to listen to the experts and get what was right for me. I guess my favorite question is are your current brakes working?
FWIW I have noting against Wilwood calipers. Wilwood makes some great components.
I have Wilwood superlites on my 914, but with hats and 11.75X1.25in rotors front, and carrera calipers/rotors rear.
The 944 turbo calipers can bring much joy also.. ie on my 911 I have 951 front and 965 rear calipers.. I use 944T rotors up front and 930 turbo rotors rear.
Part of the cool factor with 930 brakes is really that they are 917 calipers
I ran the 944T fronts on my 2400# 3.2 carrera and they worked very well
No more fading on the track
So they'll be more than plenty for my 914 (weight goal 1750#)
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