Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Type 4 Unleashed Jun 21 2006, 02:20 AM

The first build, will be a 104.9 x 82 =2835cc

The crank is an DPR 2.0 jrl (1.967") I was going to to have it turned down 1.888" Honda jrls, and use the Lentz rods. Plans changed, I, am now going to use the SBC 327ci 5.7" rod. The rod mods will consist of rod caps off the 250 six cyl chevy rods, mated to the 327ci SBC rods. The big end width of the 6 cyl chevy rod is 1.030, the width of the 327 rod is .940", the width of the 2.0 rod is 1.011".
I'll start by having the side of the 327 rod welded to match the width of the six cyl cap. I'll then have the mating surface's of the cap and the rods clearanced enought to re-size the rod from 2.125" to 2.086", which is the bore dia of the Dodge bearing mod, which works on the stock 2.0 ltr jrl (1.967"), same as the dodge. The rods will be notched on the beam end so the bolts can be flipped, the bolts will be 5/16 ARP 2000. And the rod will be re-tanged also for the dodge bearing.

The case,

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jun 21 2006, 07:12 AM

If you want to sell something do it in the classifieds.
Put some pricing info. if someone wants it they will contact you.

I build my own engines also. I don't push them but if someone wants me to build one or just assemble it. they contact me.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 21 2006, 07:43 AM

Joe...

he isnt trying to fucking sell them! he is trying to tell us about the "new" engineering going into his motor. stuff that will benefit people BUILDING these big motors!

gawd... wtf is wrong with everybody today?

the "advertising on the sly" remark is a tongue and cheek jab at brad for his last charade on richards crank and rod posts

Posted by: URY914 Jun 21 2006, 08:04 AM

I don't get the intent of the first post.

Posted by: DNHunt Jun 21 2006, 08:20 AM

I'm with Aaron on this one. I don't see any peddling going on. I do see some pretty obvious sarcasm which I think is well deserved. In fact, he should have thrown in a bunch of inflamatory smilies and a great big F#*k OFF.

He's got more guts than I have. I can't imagine his machinist bill on some of these builds. I see an attempt by Richard at something new in an area where there have not been many choices. Good on him

Dave

Posted by: rhcb914 Jun 21 2006, 08:21 AM

I actually like to read about Type 4 Unleashed's out of the box thinking when it comes to engine builds. I have read some of hist posts on shoptalkforums.com as V6914 and I find them pretty informative. Keep up the good work!

Posted by: gregrobbins Jun 21 2006, 08:22 AM

Never tryed to build a monster Type 4, how do you deal with the issues around cam clearance? There isn't a whole lot of room to work there. Now if those guys in Europe ever got the over head cam type 4 head on the market, ....

Posted by: Mueller Jun 21 2006, 08:40 AM

I totally agree with you Dave and Aaron...he's excited about what he is building.....let someone else spill the beans about thier 914 Type IV engine building experiance.....if Jake had posted about this build people would be kissing his @ss for more info and telling him how they'll be the 1st in line to buy it....

I have no idea what it takes to build a bigger motor and I too like his out of the box approach, hell, even if some of stuff has been done before, I didn't know about it and I'm sure others didn't. I'm sure there is something to be learned by him.

Wouldn't if be nice if someone asks about building a big Type IV and offer another choice instead of the "standard" answer of "buy from Jake"?!?!?!?

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jun 21 2006, 09:34 AM

Well, Build it test it post results. If you need a test mule let me know.

As far back as I can remember Never kissed Jake's ass. even during a job interview in his dyno shop.

Posted by: skline Jun 21 2006, 09:34 AM

Richard comes by all the time on his way home from the Port, yeah, we work at the same places sometimes. I get to hear all of these stories live while we sit around the garage talking. Richard has been to several events with the So Cal guys and is welcome anytime here. He has been very helpful with more than just Joe Buckles engine. I can assure you, he is not a Stromberg by any means. He even bought some parts from me and still has yet to pick them up and its been several months........Hint Hint. He has some great ideas and I consider him an asset to this forum.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 21 2006, 10:05 AM

Let me attempt to clear up what was saying here. My comment was referring to his first post and what he was saying. It would have helped if he would have provided a little introduction on the intent of the engine build. He just sorta jumped into the nuts and bolts of it and sorta left us hanging on "The case," ending. The thread is titled "TWO NEW ENGINE BUILDS" and he only talks about one of them. It just wasn't clear to me as to where the thread was going.

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Jun 21 2006, 10:06 AM

Type 4 - I'm trying to learn from your ideas! Sounds cool...but most of it went way over my head...learning so it's ALL GUD

How bout clearing up something - this is a type IV in a 2.0 longblock??
I know - duh!


BTW - this board really SUCKS for advertising because you can count on mass spam from 100s of "tire kickers" and guaranteed that some "experts" will chime in on their bad day for some trash talk. Nothin personal on anyone...just a fact of life on almost all BBS...but having my on home business i also realize that all press is usually good press, even the bad, because these days it costs major $$$ to advertise in print, sponsorship, and other media.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 21 2006, 10:25 AM

thanks dave and mike... you guys cleared up what i was trying to say...



you would think this was a porcupine cage... with all the pricks in here

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 21 2006, 10:47 AM

Sorry Aaron.

I dont recall announcing ANY of my engine builds. I support people by answering their questions and making them think for themselves.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 21 2006, 11:00 AM

Gee Aaron, after reading back through this thread I guess Joe and I are the pricks here. We were they only ones that didn't give Richard a big kiss for his post. Oh well...

Paul

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 21 2006, 11:04 AM

Nope. I posted so you and Joe wouldnt feel bad

Joe,

start posting shots of all your engine builds.

Paul,

it is time you started posting shots of your fiberglass work again.



B

Posted by: URY914 Jun 21 2006, 11:30 AM

OK, I do have some thing I've been working on. It's a f-glass Koolaid pitcher. Maybe I can make one for Aaron.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 21 2006, 11:31 AM

Posted by: Type 4 Unleashed Jun 21 2006, 12:15 PM

Sorry for leaving this post hanging, it was late and I had to get up early.

Continued, more on the rods:

The early chevy rods are pressed fit pins, they have no oiling holes, I'll be using used nascar casidium coated pins, I, won't be using pin bushings, I'll just have the pin holes honed to .0008" pin clearance. Because of no oiling holes, and I'am not going to drill any, for pin oiling, I'am going to file a V in the bottom and top of the pin bore, like the grove that VW recommends for the side of the big end of the 2.0 rods, which is used to squirt oil up to the piston crown for cooling. I, am also gona file the grove's in the big end, like VW recommends, not only to cool the piston crown, but to provide oiling to the pin, so I'll have pin oiling coming from the oil rings, and I'll have oil come from the squirters on the big end of the rod, plus the splash from the rotating assembly, I think it will be more than enough oiling for the pins.

I, will run .012" rod side play, I will have a little extra jrl to bearing clearance, using the Dodge bearings, and I want it keeped filled with oil, because thats what the rod bearing rides on, oil not the rod jrl. And with the V mode done to the big end of the rod, the tighter side clearance, it will provide more pressure to squirt to the crown and pin.

I'll add more tonight with pics.

Posted by: rick 918-S Jun 21 2006, 01:59 PM

I this back yard trash talking engine building stuff! Really gets ya thinking... I could do without the side bar drama boy stuff though... Whiners could try to use the PM system to resolve their differences... But hey, this IS the garage...

Posted by: maf914 Jun 21 2006, 02:20 PM

This thread sort of reminded of the one where Alpha was going to machine some titanium 914 parts. Talk about the shots! Duck! Incoming!

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jun 21 2006, 02:32 PM

Joe,

start posting shots of all your engine builds.




How about the thread where I drove all the way down to Tampa in my 914 with an engine I built to fix another engine I built. The one that wouldn't start because the Fuel pump was broke. not my fuel pump BTW. ON MY DIME.

Jump back.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 21 2006, 02:34 PM

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 21 2006, 03:08 PM

Joe,

from what I gather, only Richard helps people with his one off engines.





I'm done. Rick Ollah called me a "drama boy"

I dont give a rats ass about this guy or his "ground breaking" engine combo's (my opinion) as far as I'm concerned he can go back to STF.

I swear to never install a Chinese part on any of my 914's


That should fire Aaron up.


B

Posted by: rick 918-S Jun 21 2006, 03:36 PM

I didn't name names.. but if the shoe fits...

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 21 2006, 10:28 PM

hey brad...

im fired up LOL

i have no dog in this fight, and am tired LOL

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 21 2006, 10:47 PM

dare i use the "L" word?

if anything, you should use this flag instead ...
Andy

Posted by: JB 914 Jun 21 2006, 11:52 PM

ya know, it's just a little forum about cars. you guys really need to lighten up a bit.

Posted by: Type 4 Unleashed Jun 22 2006, 12:49 AM

All, right no more Mister Nice Guy

From , your first post you were unprofessional, you could of sent a PM, but you decided to do it on the open board. You Assumed I was Stromburg, but you found out you were wrong, an instead of being a man and showing you had balls, and said you made a mistake, you just kept on attacking me, and when some people steped up to vouch for me, you even attacked them, people that have been in this Club alot longer than I have, and are well known,

Well you can't stop now, you've gone to far, so now you've gotta try and save face,(Ain't Gona Happen, You Just Keep Diggin Your Hole Deaper) , so you keep on attacking me , since you don't have any Balls, what happen, did you lose them in Jail So, you started your Sh*t in one post, that wasn't enough, so you had to drag your Unic As* over here and continue to stick your foot in your mouth.

All, my post, are a less expensive way of doing things, some are my own ideas, others are some one else's, that I've taken in a different direction, or farther than the original idea, but it makes people think, ( that's a cool idea, but I think it would work even better if I did it this way) that's what my post's are about. Oh, thats right, you don't give a Rat's As*

As for followers, if you say you have some, well good for you, I, don't have any followers, but I do have Friends, and they drink Beer from kegs or bottles, so you and Paul can drink all the coolaid out of Fiberglass Pitchers, you want.

Heard you lost your Job, from what Unprofessionalizm? And then you decided, you would try an Capitalize on the Club, and charge a membership fee. Well, lets see 6,000 members at $15 each, thats $90,000, but actually theirs on really about what 2,500 active members, so only $37,500, still not bad.

But the thing is, I heard you helped start the club, but it's been other people that have worked hard, to keep the Club going, and to make it what it is today. And now you want to waltz in, and capitalize on other peoples hard word.

I'am getting a very clear picture of you. And the previous paragraph, is not only my opinion. But all the rest, are all mine.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jun 22 2006, 01:28 AM

How about you two just ?

Posted by: grantsfo Jun 22 2006, 01:33 AM

Big 4's suck

Posted by: Type 4 Unleashed Jun 22 2006, 02:14 AM

Hi Greg

Yea, the rod to cam lobe is an issue, on big strokers, an 82 not to bad. The chevy rod has about .045" smaller out side dia. so half of that .0225", more clearance than a 2.0 rod, to the cam lobe. People have run 80mm cranks with clearanced 2.0 ltr rods. so with an 82, their will be .040" less clearance.

Before, when chevy rods were used, the norm was to install 3/8 rod bolts instead of the stock 5/16. But to do so, you have to drill out the bolt hole, so the hole has to be even larger to get the 3/8 bolts in. When the rods are stroker clearanced, the out side of the rod is clearanced down almost to the bolt shank. By going to a 3/8 bolts, you loose alot of clearancing room.

So, I plan to stay with a 5/16 bolt, (ARP 2000, 220,000 psi), which will give me alot more room to clearance, before I get to the bolt shank. And their should be enough rod to lobe clearance.

Yea, those over head cam heads are nice, probally gona be real expensive though.

Posted by: Type 4 Unleashed Jun 22 2006, 02:18 AM

Hi Chris

Yea, the case is a type lV 914 2.0 ltr case

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 22 2006, 07:04 AM

Sounds like an interesting build although what P&C's are you going to use. 104's by who?
Sounds like a cool rod combo.

Jake's comments-http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=101740

Brad is always stirring the "pot" to make things interesting and make you think. Wait til you show him your car!

Posted by: URY914 Jun 22 2006, 08:22 AM

Got a idea. Why don't you write it up in your blog. You can go in and edit it, add pictures and do it as you progress through the build.

People won't be able to flame you. Well they will but it won't be in public.

Posted by: r_towle Jun 22 2006, 08:29 AM

im a bit confused on one comment.

Not using chinese manufactured parts.

I have no first hand experience with chinese manufactured aircooled parts (except maybe the mahle/cima cylinders.
What I do know is that most of the cars that I own have chinese manufactured parts, even the ford truck...all the rotors etc are now coming from China.

I dont know metalurgy (sp) but the Chinese seem to be buying not only most of the raw steel right now, but they are buying recylcled steel as well, and making lots and lots of steel parts...

Are they that bad? Is the Quality so far off?
Im really talking the crank, cylinder etc...the main steel parts seem to be coming from China, and are much lower priced than other parts...

So, is there a huge diference in quality?

Rich

Posted by: Matt Romanowski Jun 22 2006, 09:26 AM

Hey Rich,

The quality really varies (like parts from anywhere else). I've seen some really nice parts for cars and some real junk.

The best one was when a friend knocked a vice off the table. It hit the ground and cracked in two. It was really nice that they put a spark plug insulator in the casting !! Some places will use whatever they have around for filler......

Matt

Posted by: Type 4 Unleashed Jun 22 2006, 09:54 AM

The P&C's? Cylinders are cast iron which I had bored and honed out to 104.9mm (4.130") and had Cryoed , these I had got a good deal on from a club member, but originaly they were made by EMW

Pistons are a set of used 18 deg flat top Chevy, made by JE. Pin holes are, 927" (23.5mm), C/H 1.00", with 1/16 compression rings & 3/16 oil ring, they come with anti detonation grove, and double pin oilers, these I got off EBAY for about $80 for 8 pistons, but no pins, or oil rail supports, so 4 for this motor, cost me $40. Oh yea, I, had the skirts and ring lands Moly coated and the piston tops polished. Piston weighs around 430g. If I recall correctly a 2.0 ltr (94mm) cast piston weighs in the neighbor hood of 600 to 700 grams.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Flat VW Jun 22 2006, 10:08 AM

Posted by: Lawrence Jun 22 2006, 10:11 AM

Looks like you've put a lot of thought into this... thanks for sharing your pictures!

-Rusty

Posted by: jd74914 Jun 22 2006, 10:19 AM

Thank you, and please don't stop; this is all very very interesting

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 22 2006, 11:17 AM

I didnt lose my job. I quit because they could'nt pay me the measely $1600 every two weeks I asked for. They currently owe me upwards of 5k in parts I ordered on my CC + back pay from checks I knew wouldnt clear. Call them ask and them 858-693-9911.

Club: I started it on a computer under my desk in NorCal. I asked people for help that I knew would uphold a certain standard when it came to the graphics and feel for the site. I own the domain names (all 3) and personally have met/know more than half the active members. I have attended 914 events around the USA meeting most of them over a 17 year period.

Capitalize on the club: I want to grow the club site. The site should be able to support its own events and "sponsor/pay" for smaller events. As it is currently, people pay out of their own pockets to support this site and to hold events. It should not be this way. People are taking risk's each and every time they put money out on something they may not get a return on. I have several thousand dollars in this site and 100's and 100's of hours (behind the scenes) Many others (admins) have a lot more time and the same amount of money into the site.

You made a mistake. You used information that was only spoken about in private. This means *somebody* on the inside gave you this info. I'll find out who.

Talking about things that you obviously don't know the details of makes you look foolish.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 22 2006, 11:37 AM

speaking of balls, just in case you missed the fact, this is an online forum. it does not take *any* balls to attack someone online the way you did in your post. in fact, it's usually the guys that can't hold their own in real life that thrive on this kind of useless drivel ...

for all we know, you could be a 12 year old girl looking for some attention. you certainly act like one.

and yes, your "style" smells of stromturd. you guys could be best buddies ...
your writing and social skills suggest that you don't get out much.
english is not my native language, but at least i know how to use a speel-chekker ...


now on the more positive side, i too think your engine project could be interesting and i'd like to see more of it, most importantly a finished engine and some dyno numbers to back up your claims.

it's not the project that i'm having a problem with, it's your presentation of both, the project and yourself, that is less than enjoyable ...
Andy

Posted by: type11969 Jun 22 2006, 12:11 PM

Damn, who needs reality TV when you have all the drama you could possibly handle right here on the 914 board?

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 22 2006, 12:15 PM

There are a few right now that have their underpants on too tight!

Posted by: URY914 Jun 22 2006, 12:18 PM

Maybe this will help...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=54565&hl=

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 22 2006, 12:18 PM

Posted by: JB 914 Jun 22 2006, 01:54 PM

As someone who had negative dealings with Stromberg i have to completely disagree with the comments and innuendos spewed forth on this site comparing Richard to Stromberg.

Richard has come by my garage on numerous occasions to help assist with the engine rebuild. I've offered him $$ and he has refused. He has helped me out by delivering parts to the machine shop and helping me get good deals on parts. I know he has done the same for many other local SoCal 914 guys.

Actions speak louder than words or forum posts.

I'm glad to say Richard is a friend of mine and i appreciate all the hours of help he has contributed to my projects.

Posted by: Type 4 Unleashed Jun 22 2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:
speaking of balls, just in case you missed the fact, this is an online forum. it does not take *any* balls to attack someone online

I, agree

Oh, I see, I'am the attacker, I started all this sh*t . I, guess, in way I did, I just posted some pictures of some engine parts.

Look, I held back, post, after post, after post.

Fine, I'am the bad guy. And I don't give a RAT'S AS*

As, for who told me the private information, it doesn't matter, I mentiond it to a couple of people, but they already knew.

But, thanks to me the whole club knows now

So, I guess I hit home, some where in my Attack

I, am done, I will not post to any more of this crap.

I'am going back to posting about engine builds, cause that's what these postings are about.

Posted by: elwood-914 Jun 22 2006, 03:24 PM

Thanks Richard,
I really enjoy your threads. Keep up the good work and the thick skin.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 22 2006, 03:56 PM

huh? you're missing out on 99% of the club ... dude, this is *not* STF ...

some people say you're a good guy, some say you're in bed with stromturd. personally, i couldn't care less either way, but what i do care about is the fact that you're rubbing me in all the wrong places. and i don't like that ...

the fact that brad went to jail for a piece of 914 history that he believed was rightfully his is nothing to hold against him.
au contraire.

would *you* have the balls to go to jail over a 914? i seriously doubt it ...
Andy

Posted by: Mark Henry Jun 22 2006, 04:09 PM

This is just like listening to my 4 and 6 year old

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 22 2006, 05:37 PM

Dick,

I can call you Dick? right?

You havent struck a cord or done anything out of the ordinary. I have taken the time to get to know you through your previous postings on this site. If any of the admins felt this was a "big deal" you would have been gone a long time ago and this thread would have been deleted along with your account.

I respect your knowledge, but I dont have to respect you.

As far as the "whole site" knowing anything from your post... I can see exactly who is viewing this thread and can view the history of people who have viewed your other threads. You might have covered 30 people. I'm not going to sweat it.

When we are ready, this site will make the annoucement and everyone will be notified of our plans. Until then, keep guessing.

Posted by: "Z" Jun 22 2006, 06:38 PM

This is even pissing me off....thread closed. Type 4 you have a PM.