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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Weltmeister vs. Ground Control rear coilover conversion kit?
Posted by: monkei Jun 22 2006, 09:58 PM
Weltmeister
http://www.automotion.com/productpage.aspx?pid=111265&name=Weltmeister%c2%ae+Rear+Coil+Over+Kit+914
Ground Control Coil-Over Conversion Kit (little down the page)
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/porsche_suspension.html
anybody compared the kits. raced with either? can anybody suggest spring rates? the weltmeister kit starts at 150lb and goes on up to 300. before coilovers i was thinking about the 150-180lb range. dont know what the rates are for the ground control kit.
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 22 2006, 09:59 PM
colemanracing.com
35 bucks a side plus springs i belive....
look at my blog. lots of pics.
Posted by: monkei Jun 22 2006, 10:04 PM
colemanracing.com
35 bucks a side plus springs i belive....
look at my blog. lots of pics.
did you diy out of universal components or was this stuff part of a 914 specific kit? i couldn't find it.
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 22 2006, 10:06 PM
i got my setup from rich at HPH. forgot what i paid for it, call him and ask ...
Andy
Attached image(s)
Posted by: monkei Jun 22 2006, 10:15 PM
i got my setup from rich at HPH. forgot what i paid for it, call him and ask ...
Andyremember manufacturer(s) name? i see eibach springs, who makes the rest?
who makes ein superior produkt?
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 22 2006, 10:17 PM
generic for bilstein and koni struts....
basic bilstein
coleman adpater rings makes OD slightly larger to avoid dropping a perch (happen to grantsfo iiirc)
5" collar 2.04 ID iirc....
spring and top hat
Posted by: trekkor Jun 22 2006, 10:20 PM
Andy's are ground control like mine.
I have a set of "like new" 150# Eibach rear springs I'll sell.
KT
Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Jun 22 2006, 10:26 PM
nothing special about either kit unless you like to throw money away for a fancy name......
the threaded tube and perch are just chunks of aluminum, one is no better than the other...some people think that the Eibach springs are better than the cheaper coil over springs sold by the circle-track guys....I doubt anyone here would know the differance unless you are a paid professional...if it makes you feel good to spend the extra money and throw around names like "ground-control or weltmeister or even Eibach" knock yourself out
So you recommend keeping everything stock, right? If not, what did YOU do?
Posted by: trekkor Jun 22 2006, 10:32 PM
I think the adj perches were around $25 ea. And the the Eibach's were $125 for the pair.
Is that "expensive"?
KT
Posted by: monkei Jun 22 2006, 10:36 PM
i think he's simply recommend i dont base my decision on name or price... id have to agree, i was planning on basing my decision on fellow 914 enthusiasts experience. so far ive discovered there may be a cheaper bolt on alternative to the kits i suggested (ala aaron cox), not sure of p/ns and manufacturers yet.
trekkor, how much for springs? the perches for coilovers are all thats needed beyond struts/springs? 25$ for ground control each?
Posted by: trekkor Jun 22 2006, 10:49 PM
How about $90 inc shipping?
Check prices with Rich on the perches.
KT
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nebreitling Jun 23 2006, 12:38 PM
I've got eibach 200#'s and QA1 225#'s, and i must say that the QA1's, which were significantly cheaper, were also significantly heavier.
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 23 2006, 12:43 PM
i have AFCO - afcoil springs... 225 rate....
30 a pair NEW - got a smoking deal...
the dirt track guys have lots of cheap take off springs
Posted by: turboman808 Jun 23 2006, 12:44 PM
I think what I like most about ground control is that ordering various rate springs is pretty cheap. $60 a spring last time I ordered.
Posted by: Dr Evil Jun 23 2006, 12:46 PM
Awsome, I was just looking for ALL of this info as my car is stink bugging pretty bad.
Thanks guys!
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 23 2006, 12:49 PM
I think what I like most about ground control is that ordering various rate springs is pretty cheap. $60 a spring last time I ordered.
uh... hypercoils, eibachs and others are cheaper or the same price
Posted by: mikelsr Jun 23 2006, 02:09 PM
colemanracing.com
35 bucks a side plus springs i belive...
To show my ignorance, when you put adjustable spring perches on do you have to weld them on or do they sit over the top of the shock held on by the spring?
Now they are $37.65 minimum...
Mike
Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 23 2006, 02:20 PM
Hypercoils run about 60 per pair. they go in 5lb increments. See paragon-products.com.
The coleman option looks like a great bang for the buck
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 23 2006, 02:56 PM
colemanracing.com
35 bucks a side plus springs i belive...
To show my ignorance, when you put adjustable spring perches on do you have to weld them on or do they sit over the top of the shock held on by the spring?
Now they are $37.65 minimum...
Mike
look at the pics i posted, and in my blog.
they sit on a circlip (on koni's and bilsteins)
37 each side + 2 "adapter rings" (search it at coleman, 5 bucks each) + springs. DONE
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 23 2006, 02:56 PM
Hypercoils run about 60 per pair. they go in 5lb increments. See paragon-products.com.
The coleman option looks like a great bang for the buck
no way they are 60 a pair... they are 60 each....
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 23 2006, 04:23 PM
I have the Weltmeisters. Got them about eight or ten years ago, when nobody else would fess up to making 'em for 914s. They work fine--nothing super special about them. The springs are short enough that they come off the perches at full droop (e.g., when the car is on jack stands) so you have to take care putting the car back on the ground. You can (and I did) zip-tie the springs to the upper perch, through the holes provided for that purpose. But it is not a complete cure.
Nowadays, I'd give the cheapie ones some very serious consideration...
--DD
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 23 2006, 04:25 PM
or we could all just engineer threaded body shocks and not have to get coilover sleeves
bilstein has some great racer shocks that are completely "racer rebuild"-able and sell bazillions of valving kits....
Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 23 2006, 04:27 PM
The reason I buy Eibach springs:
I *could* buy them in lower increments for fine tuning compared to the dirt track spring rates which would jump in 50lb increments. I also needed the option of spring height. 8inch/10inch/12inch. Some of the others in the past didnt have many options.
I went with Ground Control components because they support OUR industry (AutoX+Road racing) I use Coleman for other products and have since 1993. I like their brake rotors and hats (this is what they are known)
I also get what I pay for. The quality of the Ground Control stuff (that everyone can make) is FAR better than the cheap appearing, cheaply made cast stuff that Coleman sells. I have also noticed the Coleman threaded pieces have a lot of "slack" in them compared to the more precise GC units.
My .02
B
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 23 2006, 04:30 PM
do ground control setups use a double nut approach to locking the perch? or do they do a set screw like coleman?
i somewhat agree with brad, the sleeves coleman makes are nice. the perch ring/nut does have a little slack. each perch is sold in 2.04 and 2.08 ID setups... they also sell a little adapter ring to take up any slack between the body and the sleeve....
AA
Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 23 2006, 04:50 PM
Hypercoils run about 60 per pair. they go in 5lb increments. See paragon-products.com.
The coleman option looks like a great bang for the buck
no way they are 60 a pair... they are 60 each....
Well, I must have received a 1/2 price discount.
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 23 2006, 04:52 PM
Hypercoils run about 60 per pair. they go in 5lb increments. See paragon-products.com.
The coleman option looks like a great bang for the buck
no way they are 60 a pair... they are 60 each....
Well, I must have received a 1/2 price discount.
that would be killer if you did....
Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 23 2006, 04:55 PM
Hypercoils run about 60 per pair. they go in 5lb increments. See paragon-products.com.
The coleman option looks like a great bang for the buck
no way they are 60 a pair... they are 60 each....
Well, I must have received a 1/2 price discount.
that would be killer if you did....
I am talking about the springs, not the perch kit - and yes 60-65$ bux from paragon
Posted by: mikelsr Jun 23 2006, 04:56 PM
look at the pics i posted, and in my blog.
they sit on a circlip (on koni's and bilsteins)
37 each side + 2 "adapter rings" (search it at coleman, 5 bucks each) + springs. DONE
Thanks. .
Posted by: monkei Jun 24 2006, 02:05 AM
so the coleman parts are cast and the ground control kits have machined t6 or something similar?
Posted by: Andyrew Jun 24 2006, 02:36 AM
The springs are typically 50-60 a piece.
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