are roller bearings really that great?
- anyone out there with some experience? preferably someone who did a install himself. and has driven some cars to compare.
- is the install really that hard?
- what about dirt getting into the bearings?
- change of effective springrate due to not fighting sticky rubber bushings anymore?
- got pics?
i still got my set (rears) in the box, they'll be going on the new trailing arms ...
Andy
they suck
by the way, the rear have o-rings.....
I've got needle bearings in both front and rear. I don't think that the installation is that big a deal. The only special thing I did was for the rear. I made a big jack screw for pushing the outer bearing race into the trailing arm. I'll put some pictures of it up when I get home. Basically it's patient work.
The a-arms and trailing arms now move slicker than snot on a brass door knob. With no strut or ARB I can move the a-arms with one finger through the entire range of motion. Same for the rear trailing arms. The change was dramatic in my car BUT the OE rubber bushings were completely shot in the rear and pretty aged in the front.
If I were going to need to setup another car I'd probably go to the Elephant racing bronze bushings. I've not had any trouble with the needle bearings yet but I've only just begun to abuse the car with them installed. The reason I would switch is that I'm concerned about the lack of external grease fittings on the bearings and I feel like the bushing will be a little more robust in the suspension environment. At the end of this season (like in December) I'll be tearing the suspension down to do a C&I on the bearings. I'll let you know how things look then.
I don't know if you've seen the Delrin bushings but IMO they are junk. Wrong material for the application and not accurately sized or even round. That leaves bronze, needle, or OE rubber as the reasonable choices.
Later,
Kevin
We are up to 4 years now with no grease needed or installed on a car that sees double duty as a street car and a race car.
I first pulled it apart in front of Jeroen and placed a new bearing next to the used bearing that came out of the car... couldnt tell the difference. They had been in the car for 2+ years at that point.
The car gets beat on. Multiple drivers, multiple events, fun runs.
220+hp 3.0 9146, caged and big brakes
They work. Not the easiest install, but the results rock.
Porsche utilizes monoballs in all of their factory race cars. This is a little tough to do with the rear of a 914 and semi cost prohibitive on the front of a 914.
This is THE next best solution.
I beleive the Poly bronze setup has a place in this particular market space. It is not roller bearing, but it is leaps and bounds better than the Poly setup.
B
Ira from Tarett engineering has one roller bearing kit left in stock for a 914.
AFAIK Mueller wont be producing them again unless demand calls for it.
B
I think Kevins biggest problem was terrible customer service from me...Sorry Kevin, i still owe you for that
Andy,
I can press the tubes into your trailing arms, it'll take just a few minutes per side.
Ive put them together but have yet to experiance them on my car.
Pressing the sleave in the arms is THE hardest part.
the first one I tried using a BFH it went in but it was a BEYATCH
The second one I smartened up went over and used a Hyd. press at a friend machine shop and it went in like butta
Grease retention seems to be the only design flaw. Mikes silicone solution works but it isnt pretty. I looked arounfd for some heat shrink tubing large enough but never found any. I did come up with a set of rubber bands used to protect new door hinges (about 1-2" wide) that seem to do the trick nicley.
How timely Andy!
I just finished installing a set on a customer car. I met Mike at his house and we did the prep work together. Things went together pretty damn smooth and without incident. Installation back on the car was a breeze. I just got the car back on the ground yesterday and took it out for a test drive. I could feel the difference within 20 feet!!! Driving around you can really really feel the difference. Bumps in the road that used to be abrupt and jarring are now smooth. It's like going from a square wave to a sine wave. The bumps are still there, but they don't hit like they used too. I am such a believer in this upgrade, even for street cars (maybe even especially for street cars, since it makes daily driving soooo smooth). The bearings are completely sealed from dirt if you follow Mikes instructions. This car had perfectly good stock bushings in place two weeks ago. This upgrade was from perfectly good stock bushings to rollers. Mmmmm, roller bearings.
Hey Andy,
I thought you drove a car set up with roller bearings at an autoX event and while everyone was complaining about a certain bump at a turn you were saying that you never felt a thing.
That was you right?
I have installed the rears on my car, was able to do the install in under 4hrs, with no press, sounds like I got lucky as the tubes were able to be hammered in. I am running 175# springs in the rear with koni adj's all around, didn't notice a major diff in the spring rate (however the polys I had in the rear were loose, not tight) but I did notice that the rear felt like it was actually "working" for a change, and the car is much more stable in the corners.
Only have had them in for 6-8mo now, will prob give them a look when I go 5 lug in the next few months, and I hope to upgrade the front at the same time to the rollers, if Mike or someone still has a set lying around...hint, hint..
Tony
That was me at 3com park in the car I mentioned above.
Everyone was hitting the dip and complaining.. I glided over it.
The roller setup is the single best suspension improvement you can do to the 914.
People who have never driven one.. will never know.
It will take a car with 22mm torsions and 275lb rear springs and 31mm front sway bar, RSR valved Bilsteins and make it ride like a Cadillac.
I gurantee faster lap times at every track. 1-2seconds or I'll buy the kit back from you and send you replacment control arms.
The cars are THAT different!
B
I would suggest that ya'll avoid them needle bearings...specially if you're going to run at the WCC or Parade AX......they sux...trust me.
Was that the one I was at too? I remember that was the first outing with my car..
I have Mike's bearings on the front and they are very slick. The back still has regular Weltmeister type bushings and hasn't been apart in a couple of years but I might look at the polybronze for that end.
I went with the poly/bronze as they are $100 cheaper and Mueller was out of roller bearings when I wanted some.
I still need to do the rears so maybe if Mueller does another run for the BBS store????
ChrisC,
Then why does Chuck use a picture of your car for all his ads? LOL
I had no idea you didnt have poly bronze in your car!
I knew it had roller front.
B
Needle brgs *should* migrate around their cage thus presenting different rollers to the loaded (uppermost) areas....that coupled with the tight clearances of Mike's set-up
don't allow much "slop".
The polly bronze presents the same area to load constantly.....same as the plastic jobbies that wear oblong given a year or two...BTDT took pics.
oh.....them needles still ain't worth spit
I will agree with everyone here, JP's car has them front and rear and it really evens out the bumps on the harsh surface up here at PIR. I am trying to get a passenger seat from Craig so that we can put it in JP's car and take people from rides...you can take a ride on them rollers then.
-Britain
Yea, I am torn. Don't worry, no one will even come close.
-Britain
I wanted to bring this thread back from the dead, stimulate some action or more discussion, and let Mike & Brad know WHEN THEY ARE READY to make more of the front and rear roller bearings I AM READY to get a set
updates? any extras in your garage?
Anyone used the Shine set? (scroll all the way down)
http://www.srsvw.com/parts/partlist.asp?name=Suspension&ptid=1&
I've used some of their stuff on my VW and the build quality was ok.
SMD
736 - thanks for the inspiration, but my skills and tools are not up to the task.
SMD - nice to see other options! Those cost more than what I've been *told* the ones from our west coast 914club guys will cost.
I've seen a recent install with grease fittings, and if the bearing was properly lubed and functional it would be free to spin inside both races without causing grooves. Winter will bring more tear-downs and rebuilds, and I'm sure there will be some more reports on the wear characteristics. Ok, back to waiting for a production update....
I was the proud winner of a front set at the WCC last year. I found the hardest part of the install to be the teardown. Putting it together was easy and Milke provided online support via the club (Thanks Mike). I made several changes at the same time (Five lug, turbo tierods, wheels and tires), so it was hard for me to guage the difference. I will say that i am very happy with the way my car handles these days. I had the car on a lift last weekend and an external inspection looked very good. I tried to move the A-arms and found no play in the bushings. Everything looks good after a flat tow x-country, a few ax's and 6 months of the streets of Jersey. I plan on pulling them for inspection in the next few months and will report the status.
Here is a like to my install http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=41484&hl=
I also would be interested in a matching set for the rear
I need a full set....
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)