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Posted by: Brando Jul 12 2006, 02:47 PM

So, last year, yeah... I had to sell off what was going to be a badass 2056 to go to school -- which I failed that semester. Oh wells, only $3500 down the drain...

So now I've got the makings of what will be a high-compression 2.0 running L-Jetronic, the equivalent of a 912E with 9.5:1 compression (or higher?). Yes it will end up on gasoline higher than 91 octane (found a place locally that can supply). Enough about what it might end up as, and on with how it goes.

Last month I acquired an engine from our very own SLITS, who in turn purchased the engine on my behalf from a local 914 guy, Bruce. I still owe SLITS $500 for the engine itself, which I am still trying to pool together. After I got the engine over to my employer's shop, I began tearing into it. Compression was good, and leakdown numbers were great! Compression showed 130-131-129-132, leakdown was 8-9 on all cylinders (cold).

Then came the first hiccup:
The best time to set the valves is when you are doing a leakdown test. With feeler guages I set all the valves, .008 ex .006 in. Then I got to #2 exhaust and... Why is there no adjustment left on the rocker adjuster? Wait a minute... Why are the valve stems on #2 sticking out so dang far? I decide to pull the head and inspect, all while my boss is yelling "Take it back! That engine is no good."

I pull the head and find that the seat for exhaust #2 has been squished (or compressed) far into the head, causing the valve to stick out into the rocker arm further. I saw this as a potential problem later down the line, as I intend to use this car for combination auto-x/street/funrun use.

Bruce, being the good chap that he is, offers to replace the head with a good one. I say sure. I get the new head and it's dirty, but in cherry shape. No cracks, valve guides are FIRM and smooth. I disassemble the head, lube it up and re-assemble. While doing so I notice something funky about how the lifter looks. Upon closer inspection (and compression) I see that this engine is equipped with ... hydraulic lifters.

After seeing how much silicon RTV sealant was used on the case, I made a decision: Tear this engine down, clean it up, put a new cam in it, and reassemble it.

Fast forward to yesterday. I get the engine apart (completely) and notice that the last through-bolt that goes into the threaded case section and also holds the windage tray in wobbles a bit. I then see that the case has cracked on one side in that spot. Great. I call Rimco and ask for an estimate... $50 no align-bore needed. The further I go through I notice the crank bearings are in need of replacing, the cam has become friends with it's counterpart lifters (in the trash bin) and that there are some rough edges on the crank-bearing surface.

Today I did a quick rinse on everything, took apart the crank and rods, and drove down to RIMCO. I'm having the case repaired, align-bored and lapped. The heads will get surfaced to the same deck height and matched to 58ccs. The crank will get polished and balanced, rods will get rebuilt. So far I'm looking at maybe a little over $1000 for this to shape into a well-rebuilt 2.0. Pictures and updates will come as I get it together

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 12 2006, 05:28 PM

Cool. Do it right the first time and it will last.

Posted by: nebreitling Jul 12 2006, 09:13 PM

sounds good. just fyi, i'm running 9.5:1 on 91 pump gas.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 12 2006, 10:57 PM

brando, go with 96mm pistons... 2056....

no brainer. wish i would have

Posted by: Brando Jul 13 2006, 10:46 AM

Aaron, I'm definitely contemplating it.

Doing a static compression calculation, I will need 0 Deck-Height to get an even 10:1 compression ratio with stock 94s. With 96s I would need a deck height of 0.011" (much more doable than 0). Maybe I can sell these cherry 94s and move up to 96s?

A-Modified class, here I come

Posted by: Brando Jul 17 2006, 01:57 PM

Update:

I just paid for this:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293701

Al is an awesome guy It should be here after he receives my payment. Can't wait!

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 17 2006, 04:22 PM

Not A-MOD but definately SM-2 or D prepared with 7" wheels, or play the under dog in X prepared.

Sweet looking flywheel. Pretty thin webs wonder how strong that will be.
The ones that Brett did for me are thicker and it is apparent it can take some abuse.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 17 2006, 04:55 PM

Why the high compression? Unless you buy a camshaft that wants/needs it you are blowing cash on "good gas".

Did I miss something on the cam selection?


B

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 17 2006, 07:51 PM

Brad he hasn't mentioned a cam yet.
However I agree with that intended compression ratio he could benefit from a big cam.

the cam card I got for mine says 86b but specs say .500 lift and 300 duration so little bigger than 86b. I could use more compression myself.
Think I got is covered. Paul, check is in the mail.

Posted by: Brando Jul 17 2006, 08:00 PM

Nah, you haven't missed anything yet Brad I've yet to choose a cam. I'll probably be calling Mr. Raby and/or Webcam and seeing who reccommends what for this application. Besides, if it won't work well with injection, I can always add shims and lower the compression.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 17 2006, 08:23 PM

FI ????? as in SDS EFI?
D-jet is like training an elite athlete and making the person run the quarter mile while breathing through a straw.

Posted by: Brando Jul 17 2006, 10:18 PM

AFC for now, but in the future I would very much like to move to a better setup such as Megasquirt, or the SDS system, or that emerald system I've seen a few times -- but at the moment, I can't afford those nor a newer ignition system. Those will be installed later and will probably free a bit of HP out of the whole combo. If I hadn't sold my weber 44s for $700 last year, I would be running those.

I would rather keep the 'restriction' on this engine something easy to swap, such as the intake/injection/exhaust instead of it being the heads, the cam, etc. It's much easier (and cheaper) to put in a new injection system than have the heads taken off, re-machined, split the case for a new cam and all that jazz.

I'm ready for all the "It's going to run like shit on AFC!" comments -- in fact, I've been waiting for them.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 17 2006, 10:22 PM

how you gonna get the exhaust out? longer duration cam? bigger lift?

i know of a header....

Posted by: Brando Sep 11 2006, 06:43 PM

Woohoo!!!

Got my parts today! Case, crank, rods and heads all back from the machinist. Next up:

- Set of 96mm P&Cs
- RAT cam & lifters
- (possible) 30mm oil pump



Pictures to come after I get home from work.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Sep 11 2006, 07:00 PM

Being that the FI will be on there from the beginning you won't know what your

loosing. And when you have the money for the other stuff it will be like

Christmas morning "More Horsepower!"

Posted by: Brando Sep 11 2006, 11:16 PM

Now, lets see them picshores!!!

Here's the case back:


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Posted by: Brando Sep 11 2006, 11:18 PM

The windage tray support that was fixed:




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Posted by: Brando Sep 11 2006, 11:19 PM

Machined heads.

Decked, matched to 55cc's each, stainless valves, new guides and new seats:




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Brando Sep 11 2006, 11:20 PM

Close-up of the heads. Oooo pretty:




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Posted by: Brando Sep 11 2006, 11:28 PM

Polished crank, refurbed rods, and my old valves (still in good shape). My old valves will be on the classiffieds soon:



Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Brando Sep 11 2006, 11:30 PM

Closeup of refurbed rods:


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Posted by: Jake Raby Sep 12 2006, 07:06 AM

Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me....

I spy a crack heading toward the exhaust seat from the plug hole in the last pic that was posted... Its the register on the right.

Please tell me that its not there and that the machinist didn't allow the head to leave the shop without being repaired..

It could be in the picture only- I hope so..

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 12 2006, 07:14 AM

Yep. I see something like a crack too.

Posted by: Brando Sep 12 2006, 12:52 PM

Wow... I didn't even see that! How could you even tell from the picture? I looked and looked and looked at the head (and picture) and couldn't see anything. Then I busted out a emry board and just lightly went around the spark plug hole.



$$$$$$ I wonder how much this is gonna run me to fix. I'm not going back to RIMCO for anything more than a valve job, so where to go? RAT? FAT? Clayton's guy? Mark Henry? I'm boned and broke. Maybe I'm just destined to have this engine exceed the $6k mark because of tons of little shit like this. First the bottom support on one case half for the windage tray is fuct, now this.

Posted by: Moneypit Sep 12 2006, 01:27 PM

Jeez, It's like Jake smells imperfection...

Sorry to hear about that... at least it was caught before your 6k engine disentegrated itself......

Posted by: Jake Raby Sep 12 2006, 01:48 PM

I know where to look- I do this everyday, all day- 18 hours a day generally.

Any shop that lets a visual crack leave their doors needs to be closed down for incompetence! generally Rimco will not do this, but tyhey should have at least told you and let you make the decision as to the repairs to be made.

That crack tells me there are other cracks that can't be seen.. If you heat that head up to about 300 degrees you'll find more- guaranteed. When the chamber cracks its a tell tale sign of more issues.

This is why we refuse to use any rebuilt heads on our engines and have for years, we start with a new casting and go from there..

Pack that head up and send it to HAM.....

BTW- my most expensive sub 2.3 L engine kit costs less than 6K- FYI
It comes with BRAND NEW super duper heads.

projects that begin with compromise, end in demise... Don't be a statistic.

BTW- this isn't the first time I have seen cracked heads posted on this forum from shops. A lot of local machine shops think "Its just an old VW engine, I'll let it fly".... They need their asses taken out in the woods and tied to a tree while being beat twice every hour for 3 days. Bastards.

Don't trust ANYTHING you get from a local shop, have every journal measured, rebalance the rods and check the fit of the wrist pins.

Posted by: Brando Sep 12 2006, 01:51 PM

Jake, do you have the contact info for HAM?

Posted by: Jake Raby Sep 12 2006, 01:58 PM

www.haminc.biz
706 613 7454

Posted by: Bleyseng Sep 12 2006, 02:07 PM

Len is the man and send him BOTH heads to inspect.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 12 2006, 02:16 PM

ouch brando....

rimco did a valve job and seats but didnt point out the cracks?

Posted by: Brando Sep 12 2006, 02:16 PM

Thank you Jake, I phoned him a little while ago.

Aaron, I'm suprised too. I guess I got what I paid for, $800 worth of service. Rimco? Never again.

Posted by: Brando Oct 2 2006, 03:43 PM

Wellp, just took the heads back to RIMCO. Says they should only charge for spark plug repair and broken stud removal (yay). Now, where can I get stainless studs for intake/exhaust?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 2 2006, 05:36 PM

uh... welding on the plug boss and remachining it requires seats and guides to be done again no?

heat of welder does wierd things to seats and guides....

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 2 2006, 06:15 PM

After welding all the important surfaces and tolerances must be checked. Generally the seats will need to be recut and the registers surfaced.

Posted by: Brando Oct 2 2006, 07:57 PM

Yes. All the work I had done previously will be re-done (no extra charge). I'll only be charged for the studs and what the normal cost of spark plug boss repair is, not the rest of the machine work that is being done again.

Jake / Other engine builders: Any hints on where I can buy some stainless intake/exhaust studs? Only took two broken in those heads to convince me to change over...

Posted by: jd74914 Oct 2 2006, 08:20 PM

What size and thread pitch? Are they step studs?

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 2 2006, 08:28 PM

I just use copper nuts.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Oct 2 2006, 08:28 PM

Jake, will the head turn into an anode with an SS stud? repeated heat cycles and SS on soft AL makes me think.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Oct 2 2006, 08:29 PM

high temp anti-seize

Posted by: Twystd1 Oct 2 2006, 08:54 PM

Brando, Either walnut shell the combustion chambers or solvent/scrub them yourself. Heat em up and see what ya really have.

Use some NDT dye penetrant on the heads and see what cracks are really there. (McFadden Dale) (I like Zyglo brand myself)

Now that YOU have seen what cracks are in the castings. You can make sure RIMCO did their job.

Bro, they can't fix what they can't see. And too often they DON'T clean the parts well enough to look. (as in your case)

I suggest YOU point out EXACTLY what you want them to do. Then hold them accountable for the work.

I don't trust ANY machinist anymore to get heads, crank, rods, etc. exactly correct.
I re-check every thing at their shop with MY and their measuring tools before I take my parts off their premises.

I make sure my stuff is exactly what I paid for. I trust no one on this. Not even John.

Unless I am willing to pay the HUGE bucks for Uber perfect machine work. And I know those guys too. $$$$$$$$
This is what I am stuck with.

There are so few machinists around anymore that machine to a high tolerance anymore. The ones that do.... Still give a dam about quality.

They have learned how to get a clientele that is willing to pay for high end work. And that my friend is not easy.
Primarily because no one is willing to pay the machinist the bucks to do it right anymore. Most people just want the best price. And that's exactly what they get.
So the machinist's just start doing adequate work instead of dead nuts work.
I have seen it to many times. I have seen great machinists just stop caring. No one wants to pay. It sucks....... And it is reality.

Guys like Len have already built all of the jigs, honing plates and boring plates, millsetups, etc.... for everything that comes his way. That saves on time and $$$s.
Hell, setting up a Mill to machine a part can take longer than the machining process sometimes.

I think HAM INC. pricing is cheap for what ya get.

Don't forget Brando. I spend at least one day a week in someones machine shop. From the little guys to a few big boys.

I have seen who cares and who doesn't. And I have seen why.......

By the way. In my opinion. Fuck Rimco.

I have seen MUCH of their work having to be corrected by others as of late. They are waste of time for most final maching.

Teir lifter bore work is the worst I have ever seen. And it isn't indexed to the center of the cam either. They fucked up sleeving my block for lifters after that. They couldn't figure out how to get the lifters sleeves indexed to the middle of the cam.... Morons I tell you.

Exception being is that they are great for rough machining as they have all the jigs. (Cylinders, blocks) Then I can take the rough stuff to my guys for final machning. Saves set up time for my guys.

This way I get nats ass premium end result for a better price.
And I have to drive the parts all over hell to get the deal.

If there is any way I can help...you know I will.

If you have the bucks. Go straight to Len and get your money back from Rimco or eat the loss.

By the way. I think I have 4 extra 911 piston squirters if ya need them for your build.

Regards,
Your nut case friend.....

Clayton

Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 2 2006, 09:02 PM

yeah.... what he said

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 3 2006, 06:35 AM

Stainless is the worst choice... It has very low yield strength and will snap off much sooner than other materials that can be used.

I have chromoly steel exhaust studs that are the strongest thing available, I have never snapped one of them!

Stainless isn't the wonder material that some people make it out to be.

Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 3 2006, 07:20 AM

I never use stainless studs.

You sorta asked about my headwork...once you cross the border HAM is the same price or even cheaper than me. Believe me I've checked, that's why I don't push my work on this board. Also good headwork is a PITA to do and I really only offer it on a complete engine.


As much as I like the T4 most of my work is still the T1.

Posted by: anthony Oct 3 2006, 07:23 PM

Is this why there are so few head rebuilders that people recommend? I actually find it hard to believe that there is nobody I know of in the SF Bay Area that people recommend for type IV work. I've asked local "gurus" and they always him and haw and have never come up with a local machine shop with a solid reputation.

Posted by: old dkp Oct 3 2006, 10:57 PM

I moved up here (bay area) in 1972 from so-cal and could not believe how far behind the times the v.w. porsche people were.i was a tech at a well known dealer here for 13 yr's until we had a strike (union) so i like alot of other techs changed professions,Iwent into teaching automotive and raced an 1800cc ep car all over the state.willow springs,riverside,laguna seca,and did very well back then. Only because i had the tools......by that i mean some-one dedicated to our need's.his name was Ray Litz.God rest his sweet soul.until last year i had not heard of Len or Jake.and now i see the same devotion that i saw in Ray when i told him of my exploits.these guy's have re-ignited my interest. at age 56. Yepp, I still love those curves.even if i have to ship the parts that make it Happen! I have been doing this since 1967.

Posted by: Mueller Oct 3 2006, 11:38 PM

Anthony,

I think one of the good guys up here is Jay....

Brad and Britian know who the guy is...slow as all hell, but pretty respected and not talked about too much (mostly 'cause he's slow and busy and those that have parts at his place don't want "your" job slowing him down, hahaha) ...I'm "pretty" sure he used to do head work for "The Maestro" (356 guru)

Posted by: anthony Oct 3 2006, 11:55 PM

I've heard of Jay. The last story I heard about him (from a club member) went something like this:

Person drops parts off
Every month or two the person goes and visit said parts and talks with Jay
Eight or nine months later person retrieves parts and takes them elsewhere

Posted by: Brando Jan 15 2007, 11:48 PM

Okey dokey, I kind of broke this off to another thread (forgot I was subscribed to this one) so here's a link to the other thread: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=66633

I received the pistons, cylinders, cam and lifters from Jake today. Assembly should begin either the end of this week or the beginning of next week as we're having a second hoist/lift installed at the shop and it probably wouldn't be a good idea to try to assemble an engine with all that concrete dust flying around in the air. Once I get the O.K. from my boss when the hoist install is done, I'll be getting started on a spare yoke and the fun will begin

This also gives me time this week to get some black oxide chemicals and do some engine tin. I'll probably black oxide the outside of the cylinders too since they're iron and will be dull red longer than they're shiny if I don't.

After this 2056 is done and I can get back to blowin Aaron into the weeds at the track, what should I do with ye olde 1.8? Turbo grenade project? Or clean it, reseal it and sell it?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 16 2007, 11:24 AM

heh heh.. he said im getting blown...

Posted by: Brando Mar 13 2007, 01:45 AM

UPDATE:

Lots has happened in the last week for this little motor. Assembled the crank, rods, internals, case, the whole bottom end is done.

Set my end play on Friday, 0.04" which is near-perfect. Today I checked my dick deck height... Set at 0.03" which should give me about ~9.47:1 compression (yay). I just gotta wait for my front and rear main seals to come in and I can attach the flywheel and the front cap thingie for the fan.

Tomorrow I (hopefully) instal the main seals, attach the flywheel, lap the cylinders into the heads, and finish the longblock assembly. Then on Wednesday I should start attaching sheetmetal (gotta buy some new rattle-can stuff), and the fan housing/alternator. Thursday I will drop the engine and trans outta my car, move the tunacan and remote oil cooler sandwich plate over to the new engine and the rest of the sheetmetal. Friday I put it all in, break it in and tune it!

Pictures to come this week (camera has been dead).

Posted by: Brando Mar 13 2007, 09:06 PM

Update for today.

I lapped the cylinders into the heads, cleaned, inspected... Repeated twice until they were ready. Set the deck height to 0.03" and calculated CR is 9.5:1ish. I installed the front and rear main seals, flywheel, crank pulley and the heads. That was about all I could get done in 4 hours (add in cleaning time for tin pieces).

The boss is taking a siesta until friday, so I'm pricing an MSD 6AL box and parts (something I can do while the shop is closed down) to further enhance my driving fun with this combo

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 13 2007, 10:26 PM

get a real dizzy.

run a mallory and hyfire 6a box.

Posted by: Jake Raby Mar 14 2007, 07:49 AM

Yep, the MSD is an underdeveloped component for the TIV engine.. It comes so far out of whack with its advance and curve that its pitiful.

But it'll work great in a Chevy.


Mallory.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 14 2007, 09:52 AM

I read the whole thread again and what cam did you get??

What FI are you using? Even thou Joe says using Djet is like pissing thru a straw, I would use as its better than duals.

Posted by: Brando Mar 14 2007, 01:05 PM

Oh... CRAP I've been putting this thing together like it is half a chevy... Just kidding. Point taken Aaron/Jake. There's a few on the eVilbay new less than what I was bidding on an MSD unit for. Maybe I'll buy that.

Bleysing, I'm using L-Jet and running a Raby 9550 cam.

Mallory Hyfire 6A or 6AL?

Posted by: Brando Mar 14 2007, 02:06 PM

Just purchased a Mallory Hyfire 6A, it should be shipping soon. Yay. Also on the way is a set of HEI plug wires. I'm going to follow the reccommendation of using a stock coil until performance issues arise. Then i can look for a mo-betta one. I think I'll install the mallory unit next Friday, that way I can have it all ready to use with the new engine (if it's installed by then).

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 14 2007, 03:54 PM

now get a real coil for it.

i run the same box, easy to wire - get REAL plug wires and a REAL coil. (you need an uber low impedance coil) look at a mallory promaster e coil

Posted by: Solo914 Mar 15 2007, 12:38 AM

Yeah, When I was in the market a few years ago, MSD boxes were still hand built, don't know about now. Hand built is great for burgers, houses and furniture but I like my electronics to have tight tolerances not character......



Kyle

PS. This was a british car project and I went with a crane HI-6, crane coil and converted a dizzy with the crane optical conversion. Infact I have done it a couple times now and it has never failed.

Posted by: Brando Mar 21 2007, 08:45 PM

Update:

Okay, the front fan housing and tin is on the engine. I just need to put my new valve adjuster screws in, set the valves, install pilot bearing (with felt), fix the sheetmetal around the alternator, install the alternator, then get ready to transfer all the FI stuff over once the engine is pulled. I hope it happens this week but we'll see.

I also recieved my Mallory Hyfire 6A today, HEI wires came in Monday. I'm contemplating installing it after putting the new engine in, that way it will be easier to set the timing (seeing 4 flashes per cyl at idle, not fun when setting timing). The closer installation gets, the more excited I am. I can't wait to break(in) this motor and drive the piss outta it.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 21 2007, 09:00 PM

what pushrods did you choose? i have the adjustable pushrod tool to do valvetrain geometry...

and a REAL timing light doesnt care about MSD style pulses....

Posted by: Brando Mar 21 2007, 10:58 PM

Aaron, all I have available are stock pushrods. I'll be doing the geometry tomorrow or friday with my boss. I figure off of this engine I might need 0.02" or 0.05" of spacer for the rockers because I'm running without head gaskets and without base shims.

When I decide to go with 911 swivel feet I may have to re-do it though... Who knows

Posted by: jwalters Mar 21 2007, 11:36 PM

So , stainless valves are a big no-no?????

Posted by: brer Mar 22 2007, 12:51 AM

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 22 2007, 11:06 AM

i dropped the ball somewhere....

Posted by: Brando Mar 22 2007, 01:01 PM

... I don't get it?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 22 2007, 01:36 PM

tween me and da fugly one...

dude - why not buy cut to length pushrods and do it right? im not sure you can get there with just shims and stock length pushrods

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 22 2007, 02:04 PM

the shim issue is covered in jake's write up. you going to do the geometry now or during the next engine drop?

k

Posted by: Brando Mar 22 2007, 03:56 PM

Doing the geometry tomorrow. Only did lots of running around town today... GF's focus took a shit and I have to replace the fuel pump on that. The project gets shelved for a couple of days.