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Posted by: mskala Aug 4 2006, 10:11 AM

Odd story.

Every time I go for state inspection, they assume 2.0L makes an engine a 4-cyl
because that's a 'normal' size for 4-cyl.

I'm sure I'm the only 2.0 6-cyl these garages ever see.

But, this time I'm behind a rare 1975 Ferrari 208, which has the 2.0 8-cyl ,
supposed to be the smallest 8 ever used on a passenger car.
And I think they put out ~170hp.

Posted by: MW 914 Aug 4 2006, 10:15 AM

My whole life I had only been 1.8. I finally got tired of the teasing....girls laughing at me. Finally I said enough is enough! I am getting implants and I will soon be 3.2

Posted by: Demick Aug 4 2006, 10:27 AM

It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it in the twisties.

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 4 2006, 10:37 AM

i've been wearing the 1.7/1.8 badge for years with pride ...


had a short episode with a 2056 that was fun while it lasted, but never had any problem telling people that they just got beat by a 35 year old 1.7 /4 with 80 horses (on a very good day) ...
Andy

Posted by: Joe Ricard Aug 4 2006, 10:51 AM

Yea whatever, it makes the girls squeal. got it on Video.
You want bigger? You can't handle bigger baby.

Posted by: Howard Aug 4 2006, 10:56 AM

Not an issue here. What I lack in length, I make up in girth. Or as I told the 930 guy who couldn't keep up on Mulholland, "I've got 95hp. Don't make me use all of it."

Posted by: ZZZZZ Aug 4 2006, 10:58 AM

I seem to remember 1.5 sixes on some euro cars.....they spin like no tomorrow.

Then didn't Ferrari do a 3.0/12?

Posted by: TROJANMAN Aug 4 2006, 11:00 AM

i just try to not drive my car when it's cold and rainy










for fear of shrinkage

Posted by: mudfoot76 Aug 4 2006, 11:01 AM

Many of the pre-war racing cars were very small displacement 12 cylinder engines. 2L and less, IIRC.


Even though I've got a 2.0/4 now, I still have the 1.7 badge on the back. It really irked the driver of a shiny new GT3 when I passed him at a DE event last year

Posted by: Mueller Aug 4 2006, 11:28 AM

Call me crazy, but I have been thinking of getting a reduction in size

Currently 1.8 and I think a smaller bore for a 1.5 would make a neat turbo motor

Posted by: r_towle Aug 4 2006, 11:33 AM

Mark,
you know me...I love to tell the 911 guys they got beat by a 1.7 bus motor...
And I wear the VW logo with pride on the back of the car...

R

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Aug 4 2006, 11:44 AM

Mike

Homemade aluminum cylinders w/ steel sleeves? Adaptation of Type Is?

How's the forge coming along

Posted by: grantsfo Aug 4 2006, 11:53 AM

Plenty of early 911's with 2.0's. Hey think about Mazda MX3 drivers with their 1.8 liter V6.

I still marvel at power of 30+ year old small displacement engines from Porsche. My 2.4 liter six just rocks. Great torque and great mid range power. It still suprizes me how much power my car makes with this little 6.

Posted by: BMXerror Aug 4 2006, 12:11 PM

Off the top of my head I can recall:
Ferrari 250 series: 3000cc V12(250ccs per-cylinder), 302 BHP in 1963
Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 Straidalli (spelling?): 2000cc V8, 240 BHP in 1967
Alfa Romeo T159 Alfeta (GP car): 1500cc strait-8 with cascaded superchargers on alcohol, 450 HP from 1946 to 1953 on bias-ply tyres.... Oh my )

And yes, for a few years before the war (not sure the exact years) the limit on displacement in GP racing was 3 liters, normally aspirated. So there were a lot of 3000cc V12s and even V16s that were all around the 375 HP range, if I recall correctly. Size is definately NOT everything.
Mark D.
P.S. 2005 Formula 1 cars were 3L V10s that all produced around 950 HP. That's 315 BHP per liter, and 1500 BHP per ton.

Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 4 2006, 12:13 PM

I proudly have an opposite problem!!

everyone thinks my engines are six cylinders! ;-)

Posted by: JmuRiz Aug 4 2006, 12:27 PM

Size dont' matter, hell I have 2 400cc 4-cyl motorcycles. Always thought it'd be cool to make a ~800cc V8, haha.
BTW didn't think they ever sold the 208 Ferraris here, must be a grey market car.

Posted by: turboman808 Aug 4 2006, 01:04 PM

It's not the size that matters. It's how much air you can force into it.

Posted by: jd74914 Aug 4 2006, 01:17 PM

Boost, hehe

Posted by: ZZZZZ Aug 4 2006, 01:22 PM

Injection is NICE, but I'd rather be BLOWN.....

Posted by: mudfoot76 Aug 4 2006, 01:26 PM

This statement should have a caveat - injection is NICE*

*As long as it is you that is doing the injecting

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 4 2006, 01:43 PM

like porsche for example:

In the early 30s, Ferdinand Porsche build the "P" (stands for Porsche-Wagen) using his contacts to Wanderer and the Auto-Union.
The Mid-Engine, a V-16(!), 4.36L delivered 295 HP @ 4500 rpm with 7:1 compression using a roots-compressor.

In 1949 Ferry Porsche build a one-off race motor for the Italian Piero Dusio (owner of "Cisitalia") to be used in a updated version of the "P".
The Mid-Engine, a watercooled(!) 12 Cylinder boxer, 1.5L (!) delivered 450 HP @ 10500 rpm using a roots-compressor.
the car had a top speed of over 300 km/h ...

Andy

Posted by: Brando Aug 4 2006, 02:19 PM

Except, replace 2.0 with 1.8, and closer to 70hp on a really good day.

Posted by: 914-8 Aug 4 2006, 02:35 PM

Size matters!

(bow down to my 5.7 liters of simming hunkiness!)

Posted by: TonyAKAVW Aug 4 2006, 02:41 PM

Likewise, last time I went out with Howard and Dekman up to Mulholland, I was able to keep up with my 1.7 (80 HP on a good day).

Then again I'm putting a 2.5L engine in now....

-Tony

Posted by: JOHNMAN Aug 4 2006, 02:51 PM

With prices like those, no wonder they think the engines have six cylinders.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Aug 4 2006, 03:13 PM

With the car coming with a 1.7 from the factory, thats what I pay for in insurance.

They don't know what parts are inside of it, and they don't know what HP it

produces.

Posted by: grantsfo Aug 4 2006, 03:15 PM

Posted by: lapuwali Aug 4 2006, 03:58 PM

A 1.5L supercharged V12 was Ferrari's very first car, 125cc per cylinder. More extreme still was the 1.5L supercharged V16 BRM, at 93cc per cylinder. This used a centrifugal compressor, not a Roots type, and no one knows how much power it made, as dynos of the time couldn't handle it, and the compressor generated a geometrically increasing power curve.

Nothing, however, touches the racing bikes Honda made in the 1960s: 50cc twin, 125cc inline-5 (both 25cc/cylinder), each of which had 15-17 gears in their gearboxes to deal with their 300rpm powerbands (somewhere above 17,000rpm). They also made a 250cc inline-6. MotoGuzzi made a 500cc V8 bike.

As for an 800cc V8 from two 400cc fours, it's been done. Ian Drysdale of New Zealand took the cylinders and heads from two Yamaha FZR400s and put them on a common crankcase nearly 20 years ago.

As for the record for road cars, the 2.0 V8 is 250cc/cylinder, and there are loads of 750cc fours running around in Italian cars (tax reasons), and plenty of 1.0 fours all over Europe in normal production cars, so 250cc/cylinder and smaller isn't all that surprising. I'd say the 208 was, in fact, very likely an Italian tax dodge special.

Posted by: mskala Aug 4 2006, 07:43 PM

Was there a 2000cc class still in ~75? Maybe they built it to conquer the class,
since by 75 porsche had moved way up in displacement for their race cars.

Posted by: mskala Aug 4 2006, 07:46 PM

Good to hear all the perspectives here.

I like to think the original 2.0-6 is a good thing, if I whip somebody I can say
I did it with the smallest hp -6 they made; if I lose by a second to a 993TT,
I can say they needed 4x the power and 4wd to beat me

Posted by: shadygrady Aug 4 2006, 07:51 PM

I have fun with the old 2.0 emblem on the back of my car with a 3.0.

Posted by: elwood-914 Aug 4 2006, 07:52 PM

These threads are getting too personal........ I'll just be happy to get it back on the road

Posted by: MattR Aug 4 2006, 07:55 PM

Posted by: JPB Aug 5 2006, 08:45 AM

In my verility, I proudly own small and cute things as to attract wild young women into my clutches. It is also a thrill to dissapoint someone with something they feel is inferior. I might just put a VW Porsche 1.7 emblem on it after the Hp's are increased.

914 owners don't need to compinsate like the 911 owners do.LOL

Posted by: Gustl Aug 5 2006, 10:33 AM

yepp - that's a fact
originally it was only availabel in Italy for the above reason

other italien brands did the same with their cars - they made special 2.0 L versions of their cars for tax reason (Lamborghini Uracco P200, Maserati Biturbo, Fiat Dino Spider, ...)

Gustl

Posted by: kenikh Aug 5 2006, 07:59 PM

Not embarassed, but PROUD! Anybody who has driven a 2 liter 911S motor with MFI already knows what I am about to say: the cars are bloody FAST!!! My 911 is just completeing a little upgrade and should be making near 100HP/L. It was fast before, but soon it will be VERY fast. Drop that same motor in a 914 and you will scare just about anything on the road. I know my little '69 911 hangs with 3.6L cars with ease in the twisties; a 914 would drop it.

The 911R is a 2 liter 6 cylinder powered car that made 220HP at 8000 RPM on carbs or 240HP at 8500 RPM on slide throttle MFI. These little motors can be made wickedly fast, even in street form.

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 5 2006, 09:13 PM

Im happy.. The GF gets scared when I drop the hammer though... I think its too much for her....