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Posted by: URY914 Mar 1 2003, 06:47 PM

Work continues:

I started to fabricate the hood extention which replaces and covers the cowl area. I've also formed a flaring at the instrament "pod". If you look closely at the fender/door joint you'll notice there isn't a joint. I fiberglassed the fender/door/rocker panel together into a one piece unit. By doing this I was able to cut away some more sheet metal. (metal=weight=slow).
Working with fiberglass is easy-make a mistake and grind it off and redo it. But wear a dust mask, the inside of my garage is covered in f/g dust.

Tell me what you think, I can take it.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 1 2003, 06:48 PM

Here's more

Posted by: URY914 Mar 1 2003, 06:50 PM

Here is the fender/door/rocker panel

Posted by: URY914 Mar 1 2003, 06:50 PM

and a full side shot

Posted by: r_towle Mar 1 2003, 06:53 PM

check out gunnar racing at http://www.gunnarracing.com

I liked the way he did the silver 914...

Look at the way he covered the passenger compartment...

Looks like you are well on your way...

good luck.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 1 2003, 06:57 PM

I've seen that Gunner car but if I had a shop like that and full time crew to work on it I'd be done by now.

Posted by: Jeroen Mar 1 2003, 07:09 PM

Hey Paul,

That's a serious amount of sheetmetal you cut out!
Great!

I see you also finished the x-braces on the doors...

what's next, f/g rear panels?

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: URY914 Mar 1 2003, 07:17 PM

The door bars aren't welded in yet, but that will be tomorrow.

Posted by: thesey914 Mar 1 2003, 07:28 PM

Those are some pretty tall velocity stacks poking out ot the engine bay.

Posted by: J P Stein Mar 1 2003, 08:24 PM

Slather some bondo on there, a little rattle can primer....better still, leave it as is.
Somebody's car has gotta' look rattier than mine.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 1 2003, 09:47 PM

I'm trying to get the middle and front done before I tackle the rear end. Next will be the driver's door. There is a lot of metal at the hinge end of the door. I musta broke three blades cutting it out.

The velocity stacks always get some comments. I think they are more show than go. It looks neat when it backfires and flame tops out!

Bondo is next. I found a friend who will paint it for me but I have a lot of detail work before that.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 2 2003, 01:34 PM

very cool idea....kinda nappy looking for now right? well on your way to being the next ritchie ginther eh? lol...keep up the good work and inform us of your progress regularly

Posted by: Don Wohlfarth Mar 3 2003, 10:34 AM

Do the holes in the fender help with brake cooling, before, after?
I get a little concerned that you have removed the front door post. I flipped a 14 end over end forward. On one of the revolutions the car came down on the side, passenger door had come open, and it pushed the door post toward center of car about 3 inches and put a Z in the rear bulkhead about 3 inches deep. Not sure that's a good place to try and save weight.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 3 2003, 10:46 AM

Good point, Don. However--

Check out the pic with the door/fender removed. Pretty much right where the forward door jamb used to be is a great big metal tube. This tube is, IMHO, stronger than the original door jamb. Particularly as it is tied into a bunch of other structure. I don't think he's compromised the strength of the chassis there. In fact, I'd bet that he could put the car over on its top and the roll structure wouldn't bend an inch. (Though I don't want to see that demonstrated the "hard way"!!)

Also, this is an autoX-only car, I believe. It is very very difficult to roll any 914 at an autoX. I'm sure it can be done, but it requires a curb or something else that isn't exactly "level pavement". The risks are lower than on the Big Track.

--DD

Posted by: URY914 Mar 3 2003, 11:54 AM

Thanks for you input Dave,
I would agree that the tubes I've added more than makes up for the sheetmetal I've removed. And the car's overall weight of the car is less.

As Dave stated and so have I, this is a purpose built autox car. If I manage to flip this in an autox I'll be sure to post the pictures and retire my helmet.

PAul

Posted by: Don Wohlfarth Mar 3 2003, 02:39 PM

Dave, the great big post in place of forward door jam appears to be 1 1/2 in.
Hard to tell from pictures but there is no dash or front firewall and may not (?) have the bulkhead between the shock towers.
Paul, in MY OPINION you're kidding yourself to think it is as strong as the front firewall that you've removed. At the least I'd think you'd want to run a piece of 1 1/2 between the shock towers and from the middle of that run the same size back to the front hoop under the cowl close to where the door post was located.
What organization are you running with and what class?

Posted by: Jeroen Mar 3 2003, 03:38 PM

Hey Don,

Check this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=317

You'll get a better picture of Paul's front tubing there
I'd say it'll do

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: MJHanna Mar 3 2003, 04:06 PM

My only concern would be how easy is it to take on and off to put more fuel in the tank? Is it going to be a pain in the ass every time you refuel?

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 3 2003, 05:32 PM

Its starting to look like Bill Newlins old car.


B

Posted by: Don Wohlfarth Mar 3 2003, 05:55 PM

Jeroen, thanks for the link showing the front end without the hood.
Paul, I'm really not trying to rain on your parade, you've put a hell of lot of work into your project.
Rule #1 when doing almost any modification to your car is how it will effect whatever class you want to run. This starts getting real ugly real fast as what one organization will accept the next one will not.
For the sake of argument SCCA may be the most comprehensive of the organizatons at least as far as ax goes. (SCCA has never been very fair to any ax Porsche but that's another story.) If your car meets SCCA regs you are usually in pretty good shape to ax with anyone.
You will need a roll bar and it's based on weight: under 1000# min of 1" X .060 wall ERW or DOM mild steel tubing, over 1000# 1 1/4 X .090 wall, and over 1500# 1 1/2 X .120. As to bracing it is "recommended that all bracing be of the same size as the roll bar itself."
There's several other items in roll bar design and then SCCA covers themselves with the all inclusive "roll bars of alternate materials or design may be accepted upon presentation of data verifying strength equivalence to the required standards."
To further complicate the picture SCCA requires that "Firewalls and floors shall prevent the passage of flames and debris to the drivers compartment."
On top of that they add "Modifications to the floor pand and frame/subframe exceeding those allowed shall result in a 15% weight penalty."
I'd suggest that you get a copy of the rule book for whatever organization you are running with and see how their rules may effect your car. For example putting in an aluminum firewall in the front could keep you from adding the 15% weight penalty. 15% of 1500# is another 250#.
You may not know the rules but I'll guarantee you that your competitor does, especially when you start running for Top Time of Day.
Good luck with your project.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 3 2003, 07:56 PM

MJHanna,
The entire hood/cowling piece will be held on with four hood pins. I can pick it up off the car with one hand. Re-fueling will be as quick as it always been.

Don,
I almost don't know where to start to reply to you.

Do you really think I've done this much work and haven't read a rule book? You are assuming that I haven't when you suggest that I go get one. Also, don't assume I don't know the rules.
The car can be classed as prepared or modified depending on where I'm running. The car is much stronger with the work I've done to it. The fire wall is the only item that does not meet SCCA rules and that can be addressed with an aluminum panel.

Thanks for your input but it was a little too much.
Paul

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 3 2003, 08:10 PM

Hang in there Paul.

Some of these people are new "to us". I personally know 25% of the people on this board and have met another 25%. For the sake of backing up Don a little on this: he had no idea what group you run with or that you had even ran this car previously. I appreciate Don's effort letting people know that they should read the rule book prior to "building" and I REALLY appreciate you posting pics.

Basically.. cut the new guy's some slack and give them a chance to "learn" us. Its hard enough trying to figure out somebodies "tone of voice" in a email or post. We all have one common goal: 914

B

Posted by: URY914 Mar 3 2003, 08:45 PM

Brad,
You're right, but you know how it is when someone says something about your racecar, it cuts right to your heart and soul. Say what you want about my wife, kid or house but my racecar? Them fighten' words...

Gee, a world united by 914's-what a concept.
Somebody needs to make a bumper sticker that reads.

"Visualize World Peace Through 914's"

Paul

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 3 2003, 09:01 PM

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I bite my tongue and tough it out for a few minutes before posting or answering a question when something pisses me off. I try to look at the whole thing.


Your doing a great job. Keep it up.


B

Posted by: TimT Mar 3 2003, 09:01 PM

Im quite impressed with Pauls car. It apppears alot of thought went into building it. Im guessing Paul has taken adantage of every ambiguity in the rule book that he safely could.

What does thar car weigh now?

Ill think when you get it painted it will look awsome. It'll bring the whole concept together.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 3 2003, 09:50 PM

Thanks Tim,

Last I weighed it, it was 1,598 pounds. Since then I've cut some more sheet metal out but added the f/g cowl to the hood. So maybe it's still the same.
I can't wait to paint it. I'm tired of the raddle can paint job.
Paul

Posted by: J P Stein Mar 3 2003, 09:51 PM

Ury:

Don't go all wanker on us. You asked for opinions, said you could take it, then went ballistic when someone was critical. If you want back pats, please say so up front.
I give gud back pats, want one?

Posted by: URY914 Mar 3 2003, 10:02 PM

J P,
I may have gotten my feelings hurt. ( )
But I really didn't go "ballistic".
I'm over it now. Knowning that Brad is on my side makes it all better now.( )
Paul

Posted by: Tony C Mar 3 2003, 10:38 PM

Per SCCA rules and how they interperet them, your cage will be fine.

-Tony

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 3 2003, 11:34 PM

I have a question. I followed the link that Jeroen
posted showing pictures of your front tubes. I was wondering if the front dash hoop is DOM tubing. It looks like the bends are crushed like exhaust tubing. I'm not a chassis builder or a racer. Maybe it doesn't need to be. Just wondered. I don't remember ever seeing bends crushed like that. Your car appears to be coming along nicely.

Posted by: Mueller Mar 3 2003, 11:56 PM

Rich, DOM starts with the ID and OD concentric, but the bending process tweaks the tube.....now if those had been bent using a mandrel bender, the forms (balls) inside the tube would have evened everything out.

I don't know any cage makers that used mandrel bent tubes....

Tony, care to chime in on this???

Posted by: Tony C Mar 4 2003, 12:18 AM

Rich, The main hoop looks to be made from ERW (I can see the welded seam in the picture). ERW colapses like that when bent. This is one of the reasons why I only use DOM or 4130. However even then sometimes a bend will look like that, but I would have called it a "test" piece. Most mandrel benders that can handle the tubing used in rollcages start at $20K used and go up significantly from there. Not exaclty something for the home builder...

-Tony

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 4 2003, 12:23 AM

I didn't think that a tube that was crushed like an exhaust pipe was legal for racing. But like I said I'm not a racer. I'm looking to expand the little knowlage I have on the subject. Looks like fun though.

Posted by: Mike T Mar 9 2003, 07:31 PM

Actually Paul as I'm sure you know already, your car is legal for SCCA D or E Modified class Solo 2 right the way it is. The metal container housing your fuel cell doubles for a "bulkhead between driver and fuel tank." Indeed many SCCA D/E Modified cars put the fuel cell in a container just like yours right on the passenger side in place of the passenger seat along with the battery to offset driver weight.

Also the only way you can incur the 15% weight penalty is by having the car judged to be of tube frame construction. A tub based car like yours (and mine) could only be judged TF if the floor pan was modified in excess of the rules. Those rules stating said pan can only be modified for drivetrain and exhaust clearance.


I like what you've done so far. It gives me courage to take up sawzall and have at my own car.

Mike T.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 9 2003, 08:58 PM

Thanks Mike,

SCCA modified classes lets you get away with alot but you end up running up against some crazy equipment. Luckly they don't show up very often. PCA and other clubs use a point system which can be sorta loose when it come to enforcement.
I just whata drive it-put me in whatever class fits.

Paul

Posted by: Mike T Mar 9 2003, 11:19 PM

Rules? We doan need no steeking rules.