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Posted by: McMark Sep 13 2006, 01:43 PM

I need a plate/adapter that will bolt in place of the stock six motor oil cooler. Has anyone seen a part like this? Or do I need to get it custom fabricated.

I am mounting something else in place of the oil cooler, so I need to be able to re-route the oil cooler inlet to the oil cooler outlet.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 13 2006, 02:01 PM

Check the Smart racing catalog. They "had" a plate in the past that bolts on. One for adding an oil filter and one with fittings.


B

Posted by: Lawrence Sep 13 2006, 02:08 PM

Is there anyone that sells a replacement 914/6 oil cooler? Maybe a 911 cooler with the fittings relocated?

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Sep 13 2006, 02:13 PM

Otto's.

The Cap'n

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 13 2006, 02:21 PM

There was a factory piece out there but I believe it's a race component only. It would be rare. It seems to be a more popular item these days so I know they exist. Try sources listed and/or Parts Obsolete.

Rusty... none that I know of but there are those who perform the mod.

Posted by: TimT Sep 13 2006, 02:30 PM

Its not a race piece, and its not rare.

Its a block off for a 964 engine, you can get them with either a straight or angled oil filter

http://www.smartracingproducts.com/pdfcat/srp2006_engine_fuel.pdf

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 13 2006, 02:33 PM

I'm talking about the very early ones... they were pictured on some factory race engines.

I know there are new ones available.

Posted by: McMark Sep 13 2006, 05:19 PM

I checked SMART and found what ya'll mentioned. I knew someone had something like that and I thought it was Patrick Motorsports (they didn't have anything), but now I see it was SMART.

I need a lower profile solution than the filter plate. I already have the filter mount (993). I said oil cooler so more people would understand where on the engine I'm talking about. I'm guessing I'll have about 1" of clearance from the engine case.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 13 2006, 05:41 PM

hey brad, you sent me a exploded diagram (looked like pet) once that had the oiltank and hardware on it.

that *should* show the blockoff and mounting brackets as well ...

mark and i did a quick "testfitting" of the tank, and there's a lot of fitting issues, two mounting holes are nowhere near any existing brackets and the fuelrail prevents the tank from being mounted close to the engine.
at least a 2" gap ...

i can't find any of the pictures you sent me (back in the MoM days) ...
Andy

PS: there *has* to be a factory part for this as i have seen factory engines with that blockoff and *no* oil-filter in that location ...

Posted by: McMark Sep 13 2006, 08:56 PM

PET Image


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Posted by: SirAndy Sep 13 2006, 10:10 PM

alright!

so, we need at least one of those grommets, some sort of adapter for the lower oil-line to case connection, caps for the upper passages, and all the little stuff for the fillerneck and level-sender, dipstick etc. ...

looks like the double-inlet piece we got is stock ...

for the mounting, there's a large bolt on the lower part of the motor, below the valve cover where we could attach a bracket and there's that blocked off line fitting at the top for a second bracket.

that actually looks better than i though.
Andy

Posted by: McMark Sep 13 2006, 11:52 PM

Bad news, flipping the fuel rails only gets you 1/2". Add 996 fuel rails to your list.

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 12:16 AM

Not unless you can provide a 95 993 oil flow diagram. Everything I'm seeing says we need to reroute the out to the in. Which is either a custom plate of modify the existing filter console.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 14 2006, 12:27 AM

how about ???

Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 14 2006, 12:29 AM

how big is the dia. of those passages?

a re-route won't be that difficult, but clearance is going to be an issue. the tank looks like a tight fit ...
Andy

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 12:29 AM

Proof, no plugging the holes. We need a block-off/re-route plate. If we plugged the hole all the oil would dump into the bottom of the engine.


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Posted by: SirAndy Sep 14 2006, 12:36 AM

hey, that'll come in handy!

Andy

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 12:37 AM

Thank god for the internet.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 14 2006, 12:59 AM

ok, looking at the oil-flow diagram, some locations are obvious, others not so much (at least to me) ...

any 996 guys out there?

where do we pick up the oil for the remote filter/thermostat/cooler ???
Andy


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Posted by: 736conver Sep 14 2006, 01:02 AM

Not quite done with mine yet. But here it is still in the R&D stage.

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 01:16 AM

What's the other side look like?

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 14 2006, 01:17 AM

that looks just like a spacer ...

what does it actually do?
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 14 2006, 01:19 AM

any comments on my oiltank pic? am i comepletely off base?

yes? no?
Andy

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 01:33 AM

I think the non-threaded, red cap is the crankcase vent and the uncapped tube is the second intake vent. Otherwise it looks right. The ??? is in fact the return from cooler. You have that one right too. This tank has a few differences from the one in the pictures you emailed me. For one the oil return fitting is lower and the inner mount point is a stud instead of a ring. I don't think these differences are going to affect the install, but they're worth noting.

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 01:40 AM

Here's a pic of the 996 fuel rail. Notice how the pipe comes out the top at 90 degrees, instead of out the end like the 993 rails.


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Posted by: Van914 Sep 14 2006, 03:53 AM

McMark,
Check with Steve Limbert at Air Cooled Racing. http://www.aircooledracing.com/
Aircooled Racing & Parts
1560 Old Mountain Road, Wellsville, PA 17365 USA
Phone ( 717 ) 432-4116 Fax ( 717 ) 432-RACE
E-mail: info@aircooledracing.com
We bought one from him. Nice piece.




van914

Posted by: smdubovsky Sep 14 2006, 09:00 AM

Guys,
You CAN plug the holes in a 911/964/993 case. Some 964 cases have them cast shut. Your oil flow diagram is missing the top-of-motor T-stat. Remember the oil doesnt flow out to the cooler unless warm. Surely you could weld the t-stat in the "cold" position. To run the 964RS/993 dual filter setup, you have to remove the 911 tstat and use the special replacement bit that blocks off a passage and always forces oil though the "cooler" (got mine from smart racing before I know it was a factory part). It obviouslly does the opposite of what you want, but the reverse is surely possible.

What the heck are you doing anyway. 996 oil tank, fuel rails, etc. Trying to integrate a later tank to an early aircooled motor?

Best,
SMD

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 14 2006, 11:56 AM

thanks for the pointers. yes, 996 oiltank on a 993 engine ...

Andy

Posted by: smdubovsky Sep 14 2006, 12:55 PM

Cool. Though why don't you just fabricate your own tank to fit in the hole? Would be cheaper/easier? You could still use the 2nd filter too. Or, is it just a "because I can" type project

Anyway, I looked at PET for the early 964 and there is a Tstat cover shown w/ no tstat - just a cover. That must be what the cases use that have the oil cooler holes plugged. So, looks like there is a factory solution. Hard to tell which is the right #, but it looks like 964.101.768.00. It looks like the cover that I have for the extra filter is 930.107.767.02

BTW, it LOOKS like there is a part that might block the holes (so you dont have to mess up the case) called an "engine oil bridge": 993.107.215.02 (but its $$$)

The "tstat" I have to use the 993 filter has a tab that hangs down and blocks off some of the holes. There must be 4 ports down in there. 1) Supply from the pump, 2) inlet to the cooler, 3) exit from the cooler, and 4) inlet to the bearings/rest of motor. The extra filter "tstat" must separate passage 1/2 from 3/4. If the cooler holes were plugged (blocking port 2&3), than you'd only need a cover as the oil would automatically go from 1 to 4.

SMD

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 01:01 PM

SMD, I pulled the cover off the thermostat bore last night to look. There's only one in and one out. Plugging that hole would starve the engine of oil. The 993 doesn't have a thermostat there, just a cover.

Posted by: smdubovsky Sep 14 2006, 01:31 PM

Mark,
VERY Good to know! (Insert sound of mental rolodex filing that info away) Sounds like the 993 has different passages drilled than the 911/964. Looks like Andy will need that "engine oil bridge" then. $100 for a factory part is still prob easier than doing it yourself.

Whats funny is that I thought all cases had the cooler/filter holes, but my friends 964 (that he dropped into an RS clone) has them cast shut. So, some came w/, some w/o. I guess you're screwed if you have one of those and want to add the 2nd filter...

SMD

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 14 2006, 01:33 PM

Sorry. I didnt know this thread "got" exposure.

First off.. it is NOT a 996 tank (they dont have one) It is a GT3 street/996TT oil tank/GT3RSR/GT3 Cup/Daytona Prototype.

The 996TT uses a plastic upper intake identical (in part number and everything) to the 993 plastic upper (see your pic) that is a 996TT engine.

I now understand what you need. Let me find out what the later cases do in that area.

MattR needs to clarify the ins/outs on the tank picture.


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 14 2006, 01:36 PM

Mark,

make this easier on me and take some pics of the fuel rail with the tank "in the way"

Please


B

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 02:16 PM

Here you go.





This image is looking down at the tank mounts and shows just how far away they are from the cam towers.


1. Oil Drain
2. Oil Feed
3. Crankcase Breather
4. Vent to Intake
5. ???
6. Oil Level Sender
7. Dipstick
8. Oil Return Line
9. ???

Posted by: smdubovsky Sep 14 2006, 02:20 PM

Brad,
I'm aware its not a normal 996 tank. I kept thinking, how would they use 996 fuel rails - aren't the cyl spacings different. Then got to thinking the GT3 used a 964 case # and thus would have the same fuel inj spacing and went - ahhhhhh.

BTW, I think the upper-right most connection on the tank (that Andy marked "???Return from cooler?") is the return from the scavenge pumps on the cam boxes. Edit: I type slow: its #9 in the pic above.

BTW2, can you tell Im bored at work;)

SMD

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 02:26 PM

The 996 fuel rails were just a guess. I wondered about the cylinder spacing. But these rails will obviously not work and the rail on the other side is only 1/2" different, so it's still not enough to fully clear.

Posted by: smdubovsky Sep 14 2006, 02:41 PM

Mark,
Im not SURE the 996 spacing is different, but when I read it a little *ding* went off in the back of my head that I think I remembered reading it somewhere. Likely the TT rails would work. The gt3 uses ITBs and Im not sure how differently it routes.

*Unfortunately*, the last GT3 motor I studied was twin turboed, had twin injectors, and a bunch of other VERY custom stuff;) It clouds the memory as to whats factory and what isn't.

SMD

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 03:15 PM

It's definitely a concern we'll have to watch out for. If you come across some definite proof, it would help clear things up.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 14 2006, 08:01 PM

Ha ha.. I thought the fuel rail was a problem. Cut it and weld it back together shorter??

You could use 996TT rails, but why? Cut it off and run a hose??

The GT3's do not run individual throttle bodies.


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Sep 14 2006, 08:08 PM

4. is the vacuum from the intake on the tank




B

Posted by: McMark Sep 14 2006, 09:51 PM

Isn't that what I have listed?