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Posted by: porschecb Sep 16 2006, 12:40 PM

Given all things such as weight, center of gravity etc. etc. etc. (hp?) He would like to know. Any thoughts? Insite? He is totaly impressed how the 914 handles corners and curves compared to anything else he taken a drive in. (not many)

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 16 2006, 12:42 PM

look at a lotus europa

ford GT, carrera GT, LOL

Posted by: TROJANMAN Sep 16 2006, 12:44 PM

lotus europa

Posted by: zen motorcycle Sep 16 2006, 01:34 PM

Koenigsegg CCR

McLaren F1

At least I assume they do I haven't been able to test drive them either

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Sep 16 2006, 01:35 PM

Stock? Any Lotus. Audi Turbo Quattro Coupe. Corvette ZO6. The Cap'n

Posted by: Sammy Sep 16 2006, 01:42 PM

reality check:
a stock 914 on stock size and style of tires, without sway bars or any 911 parts bolted on, does not handle that well. I know it's fun to pretend they do, but in fact they will drag their door handles in a corner if you are fortunate enough ot get the stock skinny tires to actually grab.

There are LOTS of cars out there that handle better than a stock (unmodified with 911 parts) 914.

Having said that, it is a very good platform for modifications and it doesn't take all that much change to make it a very good handler.

Posted by: racerx7 Sep 16 2006, 01:44 PM

miata

Posted by: drive-ability Sep 16 2006, 02:50 PM

My 93 RX7 would out handle my 914 and I dare say most any other car. You have a good platform to work with in a 914. Its up to you to set it up.

Posted by: BMXerror Sep 16 2006, 02:56 PM

I'd say that as far a handliong goes, you've got great potential with a 914, but it's not the best out there by any means. Still, all the racers have gotten ahold of it and created a market for a lot of SERIOUS suspension pieces, and given the lower weight and supirior weight distribution to most other cars, you can have something that handles rediculously well for not that much. Though it will ride crappy on the street (as if you care).
Mark D.

Posted by: porschecb Sep 16 2006, 03:21 PM

I am talking pretty much stock. 205 tires and better than stock shocks. thats it. Thanks for feedback so far.

Posted by: anthony Sep 16 2006, 03:44 PM

That is what I have on my stock '74 2.0L (Bilsteins and SO3 Bridgestones). I must say that I find the handling limits to be pretty insane. I'm sure a Lotus Elise or Corvette ZO-6 would put down a higher skidpad rating but the 914 is pretty darn good.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Sep 16 2006, 08:12 PM

Noble, Ultima, Lotus 7, Lotus Europa, etc. Not much for the sort of money you have in a 914 though!

Posted by: michel richard Sep 16 2006, 08:25 PM

Mazda Miata, Lotus Europa, Austin Mini.

But as others have said, this is against a stock 914. The strength of the 914 is its potential, and the ease of upgrading.

Michel

Posted by: Jamie Sep 16 2006, 08:39 PM

Not a fair comparison when matching a vintage 30 plus year old car against contemporary rockets!! Not even close to apples vs. oranges!

Posted by: Boojum Sep 16 2006, 09:01 PM

Yeah... No. Both have awesome top speed, but the CCR is probably better in the handling department. I've heard that the F1 handles somewhat like a wet fish. Most reviews I've read basically conclude that cornering ability is appaling, despite its insane price, and that it's really great for going straight, really, really fast, and not for much else. Plus, it weighs about the same as a 914.

I would have to answer that one of the the best handling cars ever, for any price, would have to be a Lotus Seven, or more specifically, a replica like a Caterham Super Seven, or even better, a DIY kit, with sticky tires and all the suspension goodies. Consider it a go-kart on stereoids. A Seven with a modern aluminum block engine will will not top thousand pounds, and as Lotus loves to prove time and time again: light weight and good balance = superior handling. I've always thought that a Seven with a turbo RX-7 engine would be a blast. Downside is that you're not likely to be seen by people in tall vehicles.

edit: I just found out that a Canadian company is producing Seven replicas with a Hayabusa engine and sequenial transmission. 1300cc, 185 horsepower ar 9800 RPM, 105 lbs/ft at 6700 RPM, rev limit of 11,000 RPM, and it's redicliously light, of course, seeing at it belongs to a 500lb motorcycle. Plus, I've heard of some people who have done turbo hayabusa engines putting out as much as 500HP on alcohol. This is probably as close as one could come to true F1 style performance and handling at a somewhat affordable price.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Sep 16 2006, 09:32 PM

Back in the early 80's I raced a new corvette in Azusa canyon. He worked up

there and drove that road 5 days a week, but I was no stranger eather. At that

time my 914 was "stock", 1.7 no sways 155/15's. In the straights he would

pull me but in the corners I would catch him with no problem. When we got to

the bottem and stopped at the light he asked me if it was a six, I replied that

it was a tired 1.7 with a bad clutch and in need of tires. The look on his face

was priceless. The handling is not as good as a properly set up teener or some

others but for a 30 + year old car it's damn good.

Posted by: boxstr Sep 16 2006, 11:43 PM

Ariel Atom watch this an dsee if you don't agree. I know not apples to apples but who cares, these are kewl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkEV-t9jg0

Posted by: Boojum Sep 17 2006, 12:34 AM

Agreed. Ariel Atom is super cool... But I think the Lotus Seven design is slightly more aerodynamic, and besides that, it's classic, if not classy. I also think it's cool that some Sevens raced along with their big brother F1 cars in Grand Prix, when Lotus used engines built by guys who also built...forklift engines?! Strange, but true. That Colin guy was a mad genius.

edit: thought you guys would also enjoy this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7477398372572962859&q=super+seven

Posted by: URY914 Sep 17 2006, 06:01 AM

Completely

Even after all I've done to my car, some stock street cars can still get pretty close to my times.

Posted by: JPB Sep 17 2006, 07:08 AM

Its all about the dollar and how much you want to drop on a decent ride. 914 four engines are expensive to work on and todays throw away motor craze with great HPs makes it an attractive alternative. There is no dought that a well upgraded 914 hangs with the big boys but again its all about the $$$$$. All wheel drive cars are hard to beat!!!

AWD+Hp= on the seat!

Posted by: ptravnic Sep 17 2006, 07:38 AM

All you have to do is paint the 914 yellow and it instantly becomes faster and handles better...

Posted by: 9146986 Sep 17 2006, 09:42 AM

The "new 914" handles pretty well. I know it's common policy around these parts to bash new cars, especially Porsches with water cooling, but the Boxster is a great handling car just like the 914.

Posted by: Howard Sep 17 2006, 12:12 PM

I love these cars, but...
Assuming you have swaybars, good shocks (73 2.0) and modern tires the 914 is an amazing antique. They don't make many under 2000# cars anymore, so I think that feeling is what he's talking about. But you don't want to meet up with a prepared Focus.

With enough $$, you can take a 914 and turn it into a 997 killer, but then it's no more a 914 than those NASCAR thingies are Luminas.

Posted by: anthony Sep 17 2006, 12:29 PM

I think it would be interesting to see how a typically upgraded 914 (19mm front sway bar, 140 pound rear springs, and Konis or Bilsteins) would stack up against an Elise, Boxster, and an S2000. All cars would have the same brand/type tires.

Posted by: nebreitling Sep 17 2006, 12:45 PM

the 914 would come in last on a typical road course. at AX, it would fair better (mid-pack?). however, invest $2500 in parts into each of those models, and the 914 would respond better than the others.

Posted by: dekman Sep 17 2006, 01:00 PM

Granted I have improved suspension/brakes/tires(not raceset-up) and a 3.0L engine, but when I take my 36 y/o old car on track and pass several boxster S's and then spend 5 laps dogging a track prepped cayman noting frustration on his face(in his mirror)when he realizes he can't loose me....a very large smile comes on my face! One of the pleasures of owning a 914!


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Posted by: Howard Sep 17 2006, 01:08 PM

And speaking of NASCAR 914's.
C'mon Rob, you've got more $$ in your suspension, tires and brakes than a 914/6 cost new.

Posted by: jimtab Sep 17 2006, 01:11 PM

Deckman...thanks for posting this pic...my car in it's "Brazilia special" livery...ah, those were the days..... By the way, anyone who has ever been in a "ypical 914" knows that the jackstands make them ride like they're on .....rails?

Posted by: dekman Sep 17 2006, 01:32 PM

And your point is? We live in today's world Howard.... My total car /restoration/engine/trans/suspension/brakes/etc. costs are still "less than" the cost of a plain Boxster! And less than half the cost of a Cayman S! Bring it on HowardMAN!!! By the way...where's your "SIX"??? Maybe I need to take you for another "RIDE"!


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Posted by: dekman Sep 17 2006, 01:37 PM

Jim, nice to hear from you! Hope to see you at the "Napa WCC 2007". I've heard a rumor we may get onto Sears point Raceway to run our cars!!!!!


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Posted by: porschecb Sep 17 2006, 04:48 PM

You guys are making my point. (I think)

Posted by: JPB Sep 17 2006, 07:01 PM

From what I've heard, there is alot of skill involved in winning a race also. Even if its a straight line and beastly HPs, still have to have the balls to push it.

With Jake at the helm, even a four might take some races soon! The only hurt one gets in a 914 is when they see you pull up in one and ridicule. Then you have the joy of putting them in their place and laughing last!

Posted by: Howard Sep 17 2006, 07:53 PM

You're right, of course, I'm just jealous

And after a little checking, one car magazine tests all their cars at Willow 'Streets' with the bowl. Their benchmark is the Cayman S @ 1:39. Steve Killian runs C improved POC with a 2.0/4. A full street car, he drives it to the track. Improved is tires/shocks/suspension/brakes, but all must fit in standard body, so no flares and no real engine mods.

His best time is 1:37. I'd bet you'd do 1:34. Damn these cars ARE fast!

Posted by: dekman Sep 17 2006, 10:14 PM

Don't be jealous ....just " BID"! The yellow car is cool!!!!!

Posted by: ottox914 Sep 18 2006, 06:43 AM

In that car comparo with the 914-6, few mention the back-story. The 914 was bolted togather, and run as a fun street car. It had never been corner balanced, and had an average joe driver. Who knows what the allignment was set at. Some of the other cars had hired guns, such as steve or Rhys millen, (I think) doing the driving. And, the -6 had its clutch go away 1/2 way thru the testing. They did a clutch replacement, on site, without removing engine or trans! Just separated then enough to do it braille method, so I question if in the testing prior to the blown clutch, if all the HP was getting to the ground.

Not making loser excuses, but for a "daily driver" go go up against a prepaired and tweeked auto-x winning 3rd gen RX-7, and a tube frame VW "beetle", and finish as it did without similar attention to detail in the assembly and prep of the car, I don't think thats half bad. Heck, the RX-7 only did 1 road course lap because it was about to grenade the motor due to the heat. Trailer racer? I would love to see a re-match... all on the same tires, same drivers, with a days worth of "tune up" allowed for each car to get the chassis set up to its best potential, and maybe a 5 lap average of the road course. I expect a 914 with a motor tweeked to the point of 1 lap and blown motor would put out more than the stock motor in the test car as well...

Back on topic, as much as I love my 914, as head instructor for our club, I have mooched the following cars this season while getting the SDS EFI up and running: Lotus 7 replica, (2.0 zetec, 150 hp or so), stock package Elise, '04 Boxster S. Love them all for different reasons. The 7 is brutal, with avon slicks. Wear a face shield. And warm cloths in the fall or early mornings. The Elise was a beast when on the cam, and impressive below. Light and quick, its the most 914ish, in being all weather, yet elemental when you want it to be with the top off. The Boxster S was larger, heavier, smoother, and still crazy fast. The grip, brakes, and torque were all perfectly matched. I was fastest in the 7, no suprize there, but had exact matching times in the Elise and S, down to the 10th of a second. All this at the spring novice school, on the same track, same day, with just a couple laps in each. Who knows which would be faster over a season, with more chances to learn the car.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Sep 18 2006, 07:04 AM

Ran against the Lotus ELise His was stock on Advans, and Mine is well a hopped up 2.0L Type IV. lots of suspension and Hoosier R3S04. With my hot shoe buddy driving the 914. Elsie Smoked my ass