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Posted by: Randal Sep 17 2006, 07:01 PM

It is highly likely that we will be running big slicks on The Beast and want it to be a friendly driver for all sexes.

Anybody have a good solution that isn't crazy expensive?

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 17 2006, 07:07 PM

Andy will post in a minute, but the wide slicks dont affect steering that much.

At least Ive heard there inst much difference.

b

Posted by: campbellcj Sep 17 2006, 07:10 PM

I believe there is a GT3RS steering box that will fit. Unfortunately it is spendy, $1500 IIRC.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: neo914-6 Sep 17 2006, 07:23 PM

Didn't Bill already have the Woods ~$4k PS installed?

Posted by: Randal Sep 17 2006, 07:39 PM

I don't think so. That is the reason for the post. Looking for alternatives.

Posted by: Randal Sep 17 2006, 07:41 PM

That unit is only $1,500?

What does it take to install it?

Posted by: JPB Sep 17 2006, 07:50 PM

Steering wheels are not meant to be turned when the car is not in motion due to stress on the rack/system and wear on the tires. If one was in a mud hole then I can see the reason for stationary steering.

Keepem rolling , drive faster, and the wheel will turn easily. It only costed me two cents and your off and runnig, schweet!

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 17 2006, 07:58 PM

As he said earlier this car will be running very wide tires (slicks) at AX venues and a very nice person of the fairer sex will be co-driving.
While what you say about keeping the car moving is correct, I am sure that the nice lady co-driving would like some help changing directions with those big slicks at lower AX speeds. Not to mention the 90+ degree turns.

Posted by: Howard Sep 17 2006, 08:07 PM

Old wimp here. I put my street tires on Suzi for RRC. 195/65's streets instead of sticky 205/50 Azenis. Drove Mulholland twice this weekend.

Big difference in steering effort, and my V8 with 245's on the front is downright tiring. Let's figure out a way to do it. PS is good! Cheap is good!

Posted by: drive-ability Sep 17 2006, 08:09 PM

I have seen quite a few cars using electric P/S, I think the Toyota MR2 has it. I guess it could be done for peanuts and a lot of tinkering.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Sep 17 2006, 08:54 PM

Early fords used a pump and a piston down on the stearing link, I beleave it

could be mounted in there with a little hard work and imagination. Maybe drive

the pump with an electric motor.

Posted by: Twystd1 Sep 17 2006, 09:10 PM

Toyota electric..

As drive-ability said.

I saw one at Slits's shop.

It looked like all it needed was a 12 volt + and a neutral/ground.

By the looks of it. It would be really simple to install between theh steering wheel and the first universal joint.

I am guessing it takes some pretty good amperage to drive it as the wire size that was going to the mechanism was at least 10 gauge.

The only down side of this setup, (I think) is that the rack was never made for this kind of usage. Therefore i would think the rack life will decrease. Then again... Racks are cheap.I have three of em as spares.

Thats my thoughts anyway.

Clayton

Posted by: nine14cats Sep 17 2006, 11:32 PM

Putting a power steering unit into a 914 is no easy task. I invested serious money into having a working unit created. Not only does a rack have to be fabbed, so does the tub, the suspension points for attaching the rack and also you have to rearrange the pedal cluster.

We originally tried having a column driven electrical motor unit attached to the 914. This unit was out of a Saturn. Small motor, but alot of things to work out to make it right.

We then looked at the Miata power racks. The could be adapted, but you have to fab quite a bit again.

We also had the Woodard unit that is used in 911s mounted up. Again, not a direct fit. Tons of fabrication.

All of the units except the Saturn unit required moving the MC from the pedal cluster and running a remote resevoir. All of the options were not cheap. Anywhere from $4K to $5K installed.

If we stay with manual steering in The Beast we can play with tire size, stagger, scrub radius, etc....to get it to turn easier. But low speed turns in a GT type car with slicks is tough on most of the female half of the race teams. We would like to have a solution for them.....

Bill P.

Posted by: McMark Sep 17 2006, 11:44 PM

I would think that you could (with a little work) re-aim the MC from pointing roughly at the MC to pointing above the MC. The MC actualing rod is on a pivot and as long as the throw stays roughly the same, I would think it would work.

Posted by: McMark Sep 17 2006, 11:50 PM

Like this...



Attached image(s)

Posted by: Twystd1 Sep 17 2006, 11:51 PM

The Toyota unit simply fabs into the steering shaft under the dash. No under car fab. No pump. Just 12 VDC as far as I know. It only has two wires to power it. It is NOT hydraulic. It's about the size of two 930 CV joints stacked on top of another.

Remind myself that I only looked at this for about 5 minutes. At that time, I had already figured out that this was by far the easiest solution to the 914 power steering solution. I forgot about it till now.

I am going to look this stuff up on the net and get back to you guys on the this data...... To make sure it is correct.

I'll call Slits tomorrow and see if he can post a pic or two. If he can find it in the stack of stuff he keeps.

That should better explain this device.

Pics tell a thousand words........
Clayton

Posted by: neo914-6 Sep 18 2006, 03:05 AM

Invested but not used? Here's a cheaper alternative: Barry adapted http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2303120/3 to hold the wheels while cornering hard. He runs a small business in Canada modifying Porshe and Audis.

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 18 2006, 12:13 PM

That car is sweet. It looks like he modified the sheetmetal around the pedal cluster to accept the new position of the steering rod. He also added a power brake assembly. Cool.

Posted by: groot Sep 18 2006, 12:24 PM

EPAS is the way to go (Electric Power Assisted Steering). One type of EPAS uses a manual rack and uses electric power to boost the steering on the column (called column-mounted EPAS). This way you keep your 914 or 911 rack and change the steering column to add the power steering.... not for the faint of heart for sure.

The Hybrid Escape has this system as does the 2008 Escape.

Most systems uses more than just 12V. The Escape system is speed sensitive. When we were tuning the 2008 Escape EPAS we would plug in the computer and change the boost curve in real time. Very cool stuff and very tunable.


Now there's a much easier way to reduce your steering effort with big slicks.... reduce your caster.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 18 2006, 02:54 PM

Britt Dodd School of Design.

Posted by: McMark Sep 18 2006, 03:57 PM

That hurt Eric. That really hurts.

Posted by: grantsfo Sep 18 2006, 04:35 PM

More EPS info from a company on the other side of the pond.

http://www.wiringlooms.com/electronic_steering.html

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 18 2006, 04:55 PM

With 8 inch wheels & cantis, steering effort is not high. The next step up is 10 inch slicks.....which need 10 inch wheels...high steering effort.

Posted by: bd1308 Sep 18 2006, 05:14 PM

Damn guys.

I was awake for five minutes when I made those, or I made it at 4am when I came home from work, to take a 'nap' until school at 8am

Posted by: Randal Sep 18 2006, 06:33 PM

Is our standard steering unit strong enough to handle the level of output this system will provide?

In other words the unit might work great, but the output might break the standard unit.

Having big slicks on a 914 doesn't break the normal unit, even with Bill Pickering and his 18" arms twisting the wheel, so maybe it will work?

Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Sep 18 2006, 09:50 PM

Preacher curls!

Posted by: Mueller Sep 18 2006, 11:40 PM

I like it......it looks like it fits fairly well....

Posted by: turbo914v8 Sep 19 2006, 08:02 AM

Ok looks like a great idea so who is going to do it first and lead the way for the rest of us????

Posted by: dakotaewing Sep 19 2006, 11:07 AM

All at only a cost of upwards $2500.00...

Posted by: Randal Sep 19 2006, 05:05 PM

I'm going to call these people tomorrow to secure a more detailed drawing.

If it can handle a 3200 lb car, I don't think 12 inch slicks are going to be a problem.

Only weighs 16 lbs.

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=210/home_id=210/mode=cat/cat210.htm


Cost is listed at $3,900 so is expensive.

Posted by: Randal Sep 19 2006, 05:19 PM

Here is another.

Need to find a source for TRW stuff:

http://www.trw.com/images/cha_steering_suspension_english.pdf#search=%22TRW%20has%20two%20EPHS%E2%80%93Electrically%20Powered%20Hydraulic%20Steering%E2%80%93systems%22

Posted by: Mueller Sep 19 2006, 06:14 PM

I just remembered that my 911 has power steering, I can snap some pictures and take some dimensions for you this weekend.

I'd imagine that a used unit wouldn't cost too much...there are some people that swap out the power steering and install an RS rack instead (non-power)

Posted by: JPB Sep 19 2006, 06:27 PM

These modifications are perversly cool. I like the power break system.


I'll have all that in my car before I reach 85 yrs. old. I've got the powa................biotch!

Posted by: neo914-6 Sep 19 2006, 08:15 PM

Here's an earlier http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=19636&hl= thread

Posted by: Mueller Sep 24 2006, 01:11 PM

Randal,

Coleman Racing Products has complete power steering racks as well as universal "kits" that allow you to install a cylinder to your existing steering rack.

I have a catalog you can borrow if you want....

prices start at $650