Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 5 2003, 02:47 AM

If you remember, I send some pics about my trailing arms a couple of months ago. Then I had just moved the bearing housing 15 mm inwards. After those pics I have sandblasted them, done all modifications for 911 e-brakes and painted them. Hope you will like the pics.

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 5 2003, 02:49 AM

and one close-up pic

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 5 2003, 02:50 AM

...and one before painting.

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 5 2003, 02:51 AM

... and one about modifications

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 5 2003, 02:52 AM

...and one before those modifications. Red lines shows the material removed.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 5 2003, 02:53 AM

They look nice. Did you ad some more negative camber to them while you had them cut apart ?

It appears that the mods where: addition of tab for 911 cable or housing.

Now that you have modified the bearing holder, will you shorten the axles (or use the early 911 setup) ?? which would workout just right.

The 15mm:

Will you cut the inner fenderwell to put more tire under it ?

Explain to us the benefit of cutting the control arms this way (the best you can)

B

Posted by: J P Stein Mar 5 2003, 03:19 AM

Ah, great minds think alike. Gud job.
I have a spare set that are gonna get a similar treatment.
Since I don't have a 5 axis to make some out of Titainium...I'd even go for Aluminum....it's a CSOB weight loss program. I get to cut off all the tabs but the one for the brake line.

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 5 2003, 03:22 AM

Huh, your reply came fast.....

From the wheel side I will use old 911 stubs, 911 CVs, VW bus axles, 911 CVs and an adapter to mate them to transmission. Those adapters will be 10mm thick. I have not found right 911 axles and transmission flanges to use instead of VW bus axles and adapters.

Why I did this.... Heh, simply cause I have 7x16 wheels with 23 ET and I want to use 205/55/16 tires. I am not going to cut the inner fenderwells or pull the fender lips out any more. I know 205 wide tires will fit, but they need right wheels (ET 35). I couldnt find such a wheels, so, I moved the bearings.

I know many uses 7 inch wide wheels with 911 ET (23) and 205 tires, but without this modifications they wouldnt fit under my car. And in most cases, I dont like the look when the wheel and tire are "too" close to the fender lip. This is one reason why 7x16 Fuchs in Rich Johnssons car looks so good.

Posted by: joea9146 Mar 5 2003, 08:26 AM

Can you use the 914 axle and just shorten that. Whay are you using the 911 and VW stuff. Can you provide more detail on why you are not using the 914 axle shaft ?

Posted by: Dad Roberts Mar 5 2003, 05:51 PM

Several years ago , on one of my projects, I had Moser Engineering (Indiana, Socal) take some 9 inch Ford axle stock and spline it for VDub joints. Like I said, it was a while back, but they only charged me 125 bucks, and they supplied the shafts. Never had a problem after that. ( V-8 power ) Dad

Posted by: Dad Roberts Mar 5 2003, 05:52 PM

Oh yea.....GREAT lookin arms, too!!

Posted by: meursault Mar 5 2003, 07:12 PM

How do the bus axles meet with the 911 CVs? Bus axle shafts appear to have the same fine spline pattern as 914 axle shafts.

I'll let you guys in to a little scheme I have going on the back burner. I think I can convert the rear of a 914-4 to 5 bolt without any machine work and without the expense of factory 914-6 stub axles. I figure you can grab a couple of CV joints for a late 70s bus, mate them to the 914 axle shaft on at least the outer side, bolt to 911sc stub axles and standard 911 hubs, 914-6 rotors, and voila! you have 5 bolt. Plus you have a larger, hopefully stronger CV. Has anyone ever tried this? I don't see any snags so far to this plan, so I'm wondering why no one else that I know of has tried this out. Anyway....

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 5 2003, 07:20 PM

Good idea, but the 911 sc stub axle will need to fit into a 911sc drive flange which doesnt fit the 914 wheel bearing. Its too long by 4-5mm's.

The early 911 drive flange slides right into a 914 wheel bearing and takes the 914/6 stub axle or the early 911 large face 4 bolt 2 pin CV joint. Your on the right track, but the drive flange is too long for the 914 wheel bearing.

B

Posted by: meursault Mar 6 2003, 01:14 AM

Ahhhh. Bummer. Guess I could just go with the alternative scheme of locating '72 911 driveshafts (longer than the 69-71 units) with turbo CVs and 69-71 stub axles and hubs, leaving something of a gasket issue, but I hardly ever bother with those things anyway. I know of at least one racecar running this configuration...

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 6 2003, 01:28 AM

meursault and Brad,

Like you said Brad, the early 911 drive flange slides right into a 914 wheel bearing and takes the early 911 large face 4 bolt 2 pin CV joint. This is just the combo I am using. The early 911 CV joint has the same dimensions as VW bus CV joints and instead of 911 CV joints I use VW CV joints. And I have this combo already in my car. This works.

meursault , your idea is nearly right, but you can NOT mate the VW CV joints to the 914 axle shaft. The length of the splines in the axle (see the pic, L) are too short. Dont ask how I found out this....

I had to mill some material away from the axle to be able to mate the VW bus CV joint to the 914 axle. It can be done, but I think it weakens the axle. The problem is the material of the axles. They are damn hard.

Now I want to do it better. I want to chance those modified 914 axles out from my car and use VW bus axles.

Hope this helps.....

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 6 2003, 01:32 AM

Timo...

so.. the VW bus CV's bolt up to the 911 stub axle no problem ?? The only problem being the splines on the axle (easy for me to modify) Hum.. Sounds like a lot of work. I wonder if its cheaper ?? I think we pay 200$ for brand new CV's and axles (early 911). They come complete ready to bolt in.

Nice job Timo. You did your homework.


B

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 6 2003, 01:44 AM

Yes, didnt you know that ?? They have the same bolt pattern and outside diameter (100mm).

Cheaper ?? I dont know. This is the only way to do it here. I dont have the possibility to measure different 911 axles. I dont know if there is 911 axles I could use.

Posted by: joea9146 Mar 11 2003, 04:32 PM

So let me see if I understand this..... if I chop 15mm from the trailing arms. I need Bus CV's and early 911 axles to make it work.
Anything else am I missing something ?
no other spacers or anything ?
Is 15mm the most U can go ?

What do we mean by early 911 axles 69-76 ?

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 11 2003, 04:53 PM

Joe,

If you chop 15mm from your control arms. You need to shorten whatever axle you decide to use. Whether you stay 4lug or go to 5 lug.

15mm is the max. The jury is still out as to whether all this chopping is worth the 15mm. Timo did it so he could run a set of wheels he already owned. Rich Johnson did it, because he thought he could more easily get 7's under his car. He found he gained nothing. He still had to run the same size tire as before. Neat idea, what exactly is the gain ??

Early 911 axles: 69-74.

B

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 12 2003, 01:25 AM

I did it in the same reason as RJ, but I CAN use wider tires. Without this modifications I could have use only 195 tires, but now I can use 205/55/16 tires on 7x16 BBS (ET 23).

Maybe it is only my car which is soo narrow.....

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 12 2003, 01:29 AM

Timo,


Do you have this together ?? I would like to see some inside fenderwell shots with your tires mounted and the car on the ground.

We run 225/50's on seven in. rims under the rear (roll fender lip)

B

Posted by: meursault Mar 12 2003, 02:51 AM

Okay, back on the axle subject, I see what Timo means about the bus CVs being a little wide for the splines on the 914 axle shaft. I checked it out myself. I suppose you could turn the shaft on a lathe with a carbide(?) bit and then maybe reharden the axle to use it after modifying it in such a way. What I'm not finding out for myself is what Brad was saying about the SC drive flange being too long to use with 911 hubs. I haven't pulled out any SC stub axles yet, but the hubs on the late trailing arms I've looked at don't seem any deeper than the early stuff. I might be just looking at 74-77 trailing arms. I know Porsche changed over to the smaller CVs in 73. I thought that everything else relating to halfshafts remained pretty much the same since. Were you talking about drive flanges on the transmission itself, Brad? I was thinking I'd just go with stock 914 stuff on that side if nothing else.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 12 2003, 03:16 AM

Nope. I was referring to the control arm. 69-72 drive flanges (with the studs) slide right into the 914 wheel bearing. The later 911 drive flanges utilize a wider bearing. They go in, but you end up with 4-5 mm worth of drive flange not touching the 914 bearing. I'll try and get pics of this later today when I'm at the shop.

B

Posted by: 914Timo Mar 12 2003, 03:31 AM

No, not yet. I have measured all with my old 7x15 911R Fuchs (ET 49mm) and 205/50 tires. I needed to use about 12mm wide spacers with those whees. That means that the real ET was about 37mm. There were no chance to add an other 14mm thick spacer to get the ET 23mm, which is the ET in 7 inch wide 911 wheels. There were no room for that.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 12 2003, 11:53 AM

Hmm. The only other 914 I've seen with 911R wheels could not fit 205s under his stock fenders.

Then again, we all know that 914s vary slightly from car to car...

--DD