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Posted by: Lavanaut Oct 12 2006, 05:13 PM

Hi all,

I'm looking at swapping out the factory muffler on my '74 2.0. I've read through every exhaust-related topic on the board I could find and came up with a ton of useful information. Based on that information I'm leaning towards a twin tip from Triad. Still I'm left with one concern, and that's the noise factor. Posting a question like, "Hey guys, how loud is the Triad compared to the Bursch compared to the stock muffler?" elicits good-willed responses like "It's louder/better/not that much louder/deeper/throatier/meaner", etc...but that's all in the ear of the beerholder. I'm wondering if anyone out there has or has seen any data, in the form of decibel level comparisons, on some popular aftermaket muffler options? I did see the one on the Triad website, but it didn't really have enough information to do a comparison.

At this point I've narrowed it down to either the Bursch or Triad, so that's what I'm most interested in seeing. I'm sure if this info were readily available I would have come across it in the forums already...figured there's no harm in asking though.

If I lived in SoCal or the like probably just ask if anyone would let me hear their triad/bursch, but the 914s seem to be few and far between up here in Bend, OR....

Anyways, thanks in advance!

Reid

Posted by: McMark Oct 12 2006, 06:29 PM

I've never heard of any decibel comparisons. The Bursch and the Triad are both good mufflers and you won't be disappointed with either. My preference is the Triad, for no quantitative reason.

Posted by: drgchapman Oct 12 2006, 07:04 PM

The Triad has a great finish, looks good. You can cut your rear valence to exactly match the exhaust on the right side for the dual tips. I traced the opening, flipped it, cut it, looks pretty clean.

Posted by: thomasotten Oct 12 2006, 07:38 PM

Ok, which one sounds less like a bus?

Posted by: Tobra Oct 12 2006, 07:58 PM

I was told I have a Bursch, and they tend to rust.



Made a paper template of the valence and had the muffler guy tack on the piece to make it come out right. I am wondering what I am going to do next when my exhaust deteriorates enough that I gotta replace it. Louder than a Super Beetle with a stock exhaust by a lot, according to the wife. Rear valence looks pretty good next to that ratty bumper

Posted by: Tobra Oct 12 2006, 07:59 PM

and covers up this nasty lookin' thing. No holes, pretty loud, sounds okay

Posted by: turboman808 Oct 12 2006, 08:02 PM

Here is my old muffler it was pretty goddam loud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTElmmjVL7k

Posted by: Pat Garvey Oct 12 2006, 08:28 PM

For those of you who are familiar with me, you'll know that I a bit of a purist. I Am opinionated & make no apologizes for it. With that said....

The factory did some good things with exhaust systems, particularly with the six. Nothing sweeter than the sound of a six with a twin pipe sport mufller!

When it come to the 4's, it's different. Some years ago, there was a twin pipe system available (not factory) for these that sounded mutedly muscular - don't know where they went to, but someone should resurrect them.

The only thing I know about Triad is that they've been around for a long time - known for quality, like SSI. Never had one of they're systems, probably won't, because I'm a purist & have tried EVERYTHING through the years.

Wnt through 2 Bursch systems in4 years because they are rust buckets( & too lowd). Went through 2 Ansa's because they just plain rusted - cute, but crap.

In all that time, my stock(original) muffler was wrapped in aluminum foil & kept in the basement. When I finally reached the age of reason, I unwrapped it, refinished the outside, & put it back on the car. No changes needed to timing, etc.
Runs like ......the factory meant it to. No loss of power, just loss of noise. My nieghbors appreciate it.

Triad? Means you need to cut the valence - can't undo that. Can't be original. It's a classic car! Leave it alone!

I told you I was opinionated! Flame On! Wearing Nomex & don't really give a SH_T!

Aren't we a bunch wcakos on this Forum?

Posted by: JOHNMAN Oct 12 2006, 09:30 PM

With a 4-cyl, I have no experience with the triad.

I have had Thunderbird, Factory and Bursch on 4-cyl cars. I originally didn't like the sound of the orig muffler and went with the Thunderbird and really didn't like that (too loud) and went finally with the Bursch Quiet One. I liked that exhaust, but I eventually wanted even quieter and longed for OEM, but never bought one.

After being bitten with the /6 bug (and I am only interested in owning /6's now), I have tried the Triad and the "factory" sport muffler (with twin pipes).

I prefer the Triad and would buy another one before going with anything else. I would send it to Jet-Hot first because they do rust, but are made of thick steel tubing.

I would probably give the Triad a try on a 4-cyl car as I like them so much on the /6 cars. They are not too loud and I believe they make good power.

just my $0.02

Posted by: robby750 Oct 12 2006, 09:51 PM

Here is what I have. Sounds good, looks good, and will last .........FOREVER!


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Posted by: Michael N Oct 12 2006, 10:18 PM

So what kind of exhaust is that?

Posted by: robby750 Oct 12 2006, 10:55 PM

That is a mittlemotor stainless steel muffler. The best part is that it's German.

Posted by: Lavanaut Oct 12 2006, 11:47 PM

Stainless steel...hmmmm..what's that guy weigh?

Posted by: robby750 Oct 12 2006, 11:51 PM

I would guess it's about the same as a stock muffler, maybe a little more.

Posted by: bd1308 Oct 13 2006, 12:48 AM

and you're going to sell it to me real cheap, right?

Posted by: sportlicherFahrer Oct 13 2006, 02:30 AM

RockinOldSchool has a Bursch on his car, and I had one on my 1.8L. Really kind of a raspy loud high performance bus/decent porsche sound to it. The Triad is made of much better steel, has a really nice paint coating on it, AND all the welds are not only like someone used thier finger to smooth them out, but are also guranteed for life. If you ever have an issue with it as far as welds(which you shouldnt, they fit, sound, and hold up great) Triad will fix it. He also supplies the Stainless hardware and nice metal gaskets with the muffler included in the price. The Bursch definatly sounds like a 4 cyl. and the Triad sounds A LOT more like a Porsche should, a six.

As far as performance, the Triad gives a nice gain all around. It gives nicer take off torque, and gives a very nice flow throughout the power band. The Burch doesnt do as much, but having said that, I have never driven/riden in a 2.0 with a stock muffler. But like most cars, a well engineered exhaust will give you a gain over stock.


Just my few dollars.

Posted by: blitZ Oct 13 2006, 05:15 AM

I have the dual tip Triad and really like it. It does make the car sound less like a VW (not that there's anything wrong with that). At a steady cruise, it's not that loud. It's well made and should be trouble free.

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 13 2006, 09:10 AM

before you spring for the triad (or any other muffler) make sure of the type of heat exchangers you have. a 2.0 engine may not have 73-74' 2.0 heat exchangers. if you order a triad, and have the 1.7/1.8 or late 75-76' he's, you'll be sending it back, selling it in the classifieds, or going on the hunt for the he's you need. the correct muffler hanger and muffler gaskets too.

k

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 13 2006, 09:23 AM

That Mittlemotor SS muffler is heavy!!! Even more than the stock banana one. I am not sure how much it improves the hp either.

Triad's tests are only on a six that I know.

Who did the muffler test? Grassroots Motorsports? Only a real header made any hp over stock!

Posted by: tdgray Oct 13 2006, 09:57 AM

I have the Sebring from Pelican on my car.

Sounds nice... not real loud but a nice little rumble to it.

Was inexpensive also.

Posted by: Lavanaut Oct 13 2006, 10:55 AM

Thanks blitZ. Curioius, what's a "steady cruise"? I drive mine 3.5 hours on the highway every couple months for work. At 75 MPH, is it going to wear on me? Other than that it's mostly an around-town car.

Posted by: JmuRiz Oct 13 2006, 11:06 AM

Triad!
I took my bursch off and put a triad on, now it has a nice rumble to it. The bursch emits a higher frequency sound (more of a screemer) and the triad is a lower frequency sound (sounds like 1/2 a small block chevy or GASP a WRX with an aftermarket exhaust).

plug: if you want to buy a bursch on the cheap, I know of one VERY close to me, haha.

Posted by: blitZ Oct 13 2006, 11:15 AM

At 75 in my car, roof on, I can hear my cheap radio pretty well and carry on a conversation. It's only during a brisk acceleration you get the full effect.

Posted by: Tom Oct 13 2006, 11:50 AM

I have a Triad and I like the sound. Not too loud but throaty like and fairly quiet when cruising at 60-70.
You will need early 2.0 EX's to use the Triad. 1.7's or the later 2.0's will not work.
I had Dave at Triad convert a pair of 1.7 SSHE's for me to use with the Triad. He did excellent work and at a fair price. Call him and see what he has avaliable.
Tom

Posted by: Lavanaut Oct 24 2006, 10:31 PM

As usual, tons of excellent feedback from folks here on the forum.

After as much research as I could bring myself to do, I've decided to spring for the Triad. Now I just hope I can get it and get it on the car before the snow rolls in...

Posted by: RockinOldSchool Oct 25 2006, 12:36 AM

Incorrect, only the dual out requires that the valance be cut. Dave also sells a single out version as well which does not require any modification to valance.

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 25 2006, 10:06 AM

unless dave has gone back to manufacturing the single (like on my car. which i doubt), the *other* style is a duel outlet, with the pipe that would require a cut in the valance, now pointing down a bit, and no notch is required.

k

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 25 2006, 10:59 AM

So no notch is required in the valence for a dual exhaust model now? Did I read that correctly.

Also would this type of muffler make any difference on a stock motor. I know sometimes putting on to big of an exhaust can actually hurt HP numbers

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 25 2006, 11:38 AM

dave makes 2 styles of dual outlet systems for the 914. 1. you have to notch the rear valance on the pass side. 2. the pass side outlet (pipe) points down a bit. no notching required. to my knowedge, the SINGLE outlet (pipe) is not being produced.

k

Posted by: Lavanaut Oct 31 2006, 03:01 PM

In the end I opted for the dual tip Triad, which just arrived. This thing is beautiful, and looks bullet-proof. Weighs in at 24.8 lbs. Click on the pic for a larger version.

Thanks to everyone who provided feedback, it all made my decision to go this route much easier. Next, the install...


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Posted by: Tom Oct 31 2006, 03:24 PM

Lavanaut,
Oh yea, you are gonna like the sound of this. I really like the symmetry too.
Tom

Posted by: pete-stevers Oct 31 2006, 04:34 PM

and this answers my questions too....traid for the harlot!!!