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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Motor choices...
Posted by: rtalich Oct 12 2006, 08:55 PM
So far I've seen/heard/read about the 2056 and 2270 type 4 motors. What about the 2165? What bore/stroke combo would this be?
Posted by: MW 914 Oct 12 2006, 08:56 PM
3.2 
Posted by: rdauenhauer Oct 12 2006, 09:02 PM
lets back up...what motor do you have now?
Posted by: bd1308 Oct 12 2006, 09:02 PM
what abotu the 1911..?
Posted by: rdauenhauer Oct 12 2006, 09:04 PM
Britt were on the same wavelengh 
Ive been driving mine the last couple of days and
I must say...SWEET!
Posted by: rtalich Oct 12 2006, 09:09 PM
What???
Posted by: anthony Oct 12 2006, 09:22 PM
I'm pretty sure a 2165 is a Type I engine. Here's a chart of Torque curves I've made for a tired 2L, stock 2L, 2056, and 2270. The 2056 is nice bump but the 2270 is in a whole other league.
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Posted by: brant Oct 12 2006, 09:32 PM
My preference is the 1991.
This is at 5000ft altitude, and 104 degree's F.
If it were adjusted to flywheel and altitude/temp... I'm thinking around 175HP
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Posted by: brant Oct 12 2006, 09:38 PM
which car is that from brant?
orange car..
the only one I've ever had on a dyno
Posted by: TROJANMAN Oct 12 2006, 09:45 PM
but that's a 6.
Posted by: bd1308 Oct 12 2006, 09:47 PM
Rich, you and me were on the same wavelength?
1911 is one torquey beast from what i hear.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 12 2006, 10:01 PM
In the future... We'll all have SIXES
Posted by: brant Oct 13 2006, 06:49 AM
but that's a 6.
but Will's started it.
he said 3.2
brant
Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 13 2006, 08:13 AM
Rob has a 2.0L....
2056 is a nice bump in hp/torque and won't break the bank, figure 'bout 110-115hp
won't break your wallet either- $3500/5000
2270 is a big jump somewhere in the 130 to 170 hp range depending on the combo and starts at 'bout $5k
1911 is a cheap ass motor that whimps run when they don't have any money.
you can do a six for less than $5k if you steal half the parts at night off parked 911's
Posted by: rdauenhauer Oct 13 2006, 08:30 AM
Hey Geoff 
Britt not so much. Short stroke + big bore = rev'er
Having both the 2.0 has more torque
Dont get me wrong still a good combo!
Posted by: TROJANMAN Oct 13 2006, 09:19 AM
Suby, Suby, Suby 
But i think i want my next car to be a V8 
Posted by: Matt Meyer Oct 13 2006, 09:45 AM
To actually answer your question it looks like a 2165 would be a 94x78 so a stroked 2.0 liter. I haven't heard of one before. It should have good torque. Why not go to a 2176 with a 78.4 stroke? I assume you are going to try and save $$$ by reusing the 94mm p&c.
Mostly you hear of 2056 and 2270 which are 96 bore and 71mm (stock2.0) or 78.4 stroke respectively.
You can find different combinations you could make here: http://www.tunacan.net/t4/reference/displace.shtml
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 13 2006, 10:11 AM
In the future... We'll all have SIXES
.....Assimilate.
Posted by: anthony Oct 13 2006, 10:17 AM
In the future... We'll all have SIXES
.....Assimilate.
I have a big six ... in my 911.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Oct 13 2006, 10:21 AM
Here's my opinion on motors.
The problem is the F.I. system & electrical systems on a 30-year plus car. If someone would repo a replacement (reasonable) F.I. system for our 4-cyl motor no one would be talking about replacing type-!V motor's. Of course many would still do 6's & Stuby's. etc, but the real problem is the electrical system & F.I. system. Replacement parts are getting scarce & that's the reason many look at alternate(modern/new) power plants. I would like to have a 6-cyl, chevy V/8 or Stuby motor, but it's not practical $$ wise.
Find a reasonable $$ new replacement F.I. sytems for our stock motors and many will stay with their stock motor. I'll keep looking at Raby's motor's & hope someone comes out with a new (repo) Type-4 replacement F.I. System to fit my motor. ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Read the tea leaves, Raby motor's will be the choice (best dollar value) motor for the future value of 914's. Raby motor's are the only real current choice. He has a lock on the market (don't tell him) with all his available upgrades & improvements. 
It's a good value.
Tom
Posted by: anthony Oct 13 2006, 10:29 AM
I disagree. The stock fuel injection system works fine for a stock engine. The problem is when you want to go for more power because the stock system isn't programmable.
We already have EFI replacements - there are lots to choose from. The most popular are Megasquirt and SDS. Jake even sells an SDS configured system that is a drop in replacement for your D-jet.
Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 13 2006, 10:31 AM
To actually answer your question it looks like a 2165 would be a 94x78 so a stroked 2.0 liter. I haven't heard of one before. It should have good torque. Why not go to a 2176 with a 78.4 stroke? I assume you are going to try and save $$$ by reusing the 94mm p&c.
Mostly you hear of 2056 and 2270 which are 96 bore and 71mm (stock2.0) or 78.4 stroke respectively.
You can find different combinations you could make here: http://www.tunacan.net/t4/reference/displace.shtml
yep you gain an extra ~90CC by upping the pistons to 96's (AND you get waaay more options in piston land inthe 96mm variety) with a 78.4 stroke.....
Posted by: JmuRiz Oct 13 2006, 10:47 AM
So far I've seen/heard/read about the 2056 and 2270 type 4 motors. What about the 2165? What bore/stroke combo would this be?
Are you looking for a motor for an under 2.2 class?
If so, go with what Matt said, 2176cc
If not, just go with whatever your budget will allow, a 2056 and a 2270 are the most popular and most tested combos. Check out the 2056 engine for $5000 thread on the products forum.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Oct 13 2006, 11:06 AM
Anthony,
You are so correct our F.I. system is ok for a stock motor. I should have added I want a new programable F.I. system to work with my modified motor. I want a plug & play reasonable $$ system replacement. Until I am satisified with the current systems, I'll wait. I just want to pay the money without the hassel.
I like my 4-cyl motor, I just want a better F.I. system to handle improvements. A motor is a motor we just need a better F.I. system (plug & play for the novice).
Tom
Posted by: rtalich Oct 13 2006, 11:08 AM
Thank you all for the info!! Very helpful.... Is it correct to say that if you were to install a stroked crank then you also need to replace the stock rods? If thats the case then it would make sense to use the 96mm pistons. Therefore, its very clear why you just don't see anything in between the 2056 and 2270. 
Posted by: Mueller Oct 13 2006, 11:28 AM
To actually answer your question it looks like a 2165 would be a 94x78 so a stroked 2.0 liter. I haven't heard of one before.
I was building this combo until I had to sell the motor, the idea behind using the 94mm bore was not for money savings considering I had 94mm Nickies
The reason was that I had freshly rebuilt 2.0 heads and that normally one goes with larger valves with a 2270, so by keeping the smaller bore, the intake/exhaust ports would be a better match to the smaller bore.
It should have good torque. Why not go to a 2176 with a 78.4 stroke? I assume you are going to try and save $$$ by reusing the 94mm p&c.
Mostly you hear of 2056 and 2270 which are 96 bore and 71mm (stock2.0) or 78.4 stroke respectively.
I totally agree with you hear, not many people except for freaks like myself and Rich build up motors based on the 1.8
You can find different combinations you could make here: http://www.tunacan.net/t4/reference/displace.shtml
Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 13 2006, 11:32 AM
Anthony,
You are so correct our F.I. system is ok for a stock motor. I should have added I want a new programable F.I. system to work with my modified motor. I want a plug & play reasonable $$ system replacement. Until I am satisified with the current systems, I'll wait. I just want to pay the money without the hassel.
I like my 4-cyl motor, I just want a better F.I. system to handle improvements. A motor is a motor we just need a better F.I. system (plug & play for the novice).
Tom
if you just bolt it on.... and drive away.... you dont learn anything
PEFI is a wonderful thing, and can teach you a lot..
im saving for an ITB / FI hotrod induction system... why? because it will make more power and teach me in the process.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Oct 13 2006, 12:02 PM
Aaron,
Good info & advise.
I did a Google search on F.I. systems & it's a big place. How about someone making a list of available F.I. Systems to review with web sites for us novice 914er's??
Thanks,
Tom
Posted by: Headrage Oct 13 2006, 12:16 PM
In the future... We'll all have SIXES
Posted by: anthony Oct 13 2006, 06:04 PM
Thomas, Jake seels an SDS based system that is as close to a bolt on for an existing D-Jet setup as you can get.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/product.php?productid=16700&cat=320&page=1
Still, it's $1500 bucks so it's not cheap. A set up Webers though with everything costs around $1200 so at least one is still in the same ballpark. The only way to do this on a budget is with Megasquirt which requires a lot of sweat equity.
Posted by: bernbomb914 Oct 13 2006, 11:49 PM
my new project is 78x104 nickasils it should be interesting to see the results.
Bernie
Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 14 2006, 08:18 AM
my new project is 78x104 nickasils it should be interesting to see the results.
Bernie
thats kinda small ain't it?
Posted by: JPB Oct 14 2006, 09:12 AM
I think it is possible to get dependable 170-300Hps for under 5k and one month of pittering during the weekends and be done with it.
:beer1:Not talking 6 here.
Posted by: brant Oct 14 2006, 10:28 AM
I think it is possible to get dependable 170-300Hps for under 5k and one month of pittering during the weekends and be done with it.
:beer1:Not talking 6 here.
what??
your going to get 300hp out of a type IV for under 5K and its reliable?
I'd like to see this.
Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 14 2006, 10:41 AM
me too....
Posted by: JPB Oct 14 2006, 10:49 AM
Sorry not T4 but 4 and not 6 and didn't mention 8 since 4 8 6 and 8.LOL
:beer1:Ahhh, keeping beer money a priority also.
Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 14 2006, 11:20 AM
like we talked about rob. 2.0 or 2056 or 2270 or carbs or d-jet or aftermarket fi. your call. decide before you start ordering components.
k
Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 14 2006, 11:47 AM
No Way!
Let him stock up on a bunch of mis-matched mis-configured parts so later we can swoop in like vultures to buy it up at a 75% discount!!!
I can hardly wait.... 
I love those kind of deals.
Posted by: rtalich Oct 14 2006, 12:03 PM
No Way!
Let him stock up on a bunch of mis-matched mis-configured parts so later we can swoop in like vultures to buy it up at a 75% discount!!!
I can hardly wait....
I love those kind of deals.
I'm not talking about mixing and matching parts here.... Just simply trying to figure out why theres no mention of a type 4 motor in between the 2056 and 2270. When in theory it can be done with specific components.
Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 14 2006, 12:12 PM
like the 2165 or whatever the "Powerstroke" is?
914 is pretty light so "if" you are going to stroke it, go as large as possible.
The 2056 is sooo easy to do its foolproof that the factory "should have" built the 914 2.0L with this 110hp version and "kicked ass" in sales.
2270 is harder and above that get alot harder.
Posted by: thomasotten Oct 15 2006, 08:29 AM
Thomas, Jake seels an SDS based system that is as close to a bolt on for an existing D-Jet setup as you can get.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/product.php?productid=16700&cat=320&page=1
Still, it's $1500 bucks so it's not cheap. A set up Webers though with everything costs around $1200 so at least one is still in the same ballpark. The only way to do this on a budget is with Megasquirt which requires a lot of sweat equity.
I wish I would have seen that BEFORE I ordered my Dellortos. Oh well, that will be the upgrade.
Posted by: Marv's3.6six Oct 15 2006, 11:28 AM
Here's a yummy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-GLlMb28pM in a 356 outlaw
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Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 15 2006, 05:24 PM
clean. i wonder what's up with the center fitting on the breather box? i should think the bb is on the small side for that engine application. the linkage is slick too.
k
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